My electric stove is talking to my modem, resulting in the modem
dropping its speed back or losing the connection (dial up). I can
turn any burner on high and everything works. Turn the "infinite"
control to a midpoint heat setting and the modem goes out to lunch.

The controls are primitive types with a heater and bimetallic strip
inside them (I disassembled one to fix it). The contacts appear to be
real silver.

The only place the modem and stove come together is at the CB panel
they have independent circuits up to that point.

Modem line is 40 feet of UTP cat 5 up to the phone connection box.
(added the twisted pair in an attempt to fix the problem) The lines
are 10 feet apart everywhere except the CB panel.

Phone box and power share the same earth ground. I lifted the power
connection and saw no unbalance ( 0 VAC) between ground and neutral
with the stove cycling.

Any burner on the stove causes the problem. The small one is 600
watts the oven 2,000 watts. 240 VAC to the stove 120 to the outlets.

If I turn my stereo on (same circuit as modem and computer) and crank
the volume to uncomfortable levels (unless of course I've had a few
home brews) the problem goes away (and no my perception isn't at fault
.. . . but, truth speaking, in that condition most problems do go
away)

Stereo PA has a very stiff power supply 100 joules with HF bypass
photo flash caps and polystyrene layered caps. Problem only goes away
with bass turned up and continuous music source, or large bass
transients. (floor shaking, teeth rattling, bass)

So far I've added twisted pair to the phone connection (40 feet), a
toroid to the (external) modem's wall wart transformer, and a toroid
to the phone lines - in all cases for common mode rejection - not
around each line.

Interested in hearing from people who have solved this problem, or
just anyone with an idea of what to try next. Stove is easy to get
to, computer 120 VAC easy to access, power panel less so.

Short of staying inebriated and playing the "Sheffield Drum Record"
or "Lisztronique" over and over . . . (I'm willing, but my wife has a
problem with that approach)

In article ,
default wrote:

My electric stove is talking to my modem, resulting in the modem
dropping its speed back or losing the connection (dial up). I can
turn any burner on high and everything works. Turn the "infinite"
control to a midpoint heat setting and the modem goes out to lunch.

The controls are primitive types with a heater and bimetallic strip
inside them (I disassembled one to fix it). The contacts appear to be
real silver.

Seems to me that you may have either (or both) of two problems: a
brief voltage drop when the stove heating element is switched on
(perhaps enough to "brown out" the modem's power supply) or a burst of
RF noise when the contacts open and close.

I'd guess that the stove heater element is drawing a pretty hefty
surge when it's first turned on, before it heats up and its resistance
increases. This might result in a one- or two-cycle voltage-drop
brownout which affects the whole circuit and may show up in other
circuits as well... it'd depend on the quality of the house wiring and
of your electrical service connection.

If this is the case, you might be able to correct its effect on the
modem by using a UPS. Unfortunately, most consumer-type "UPS"
products are actually SPS (standby power supply) designs, and they
don't turn on their inverter and supply power to the device-under-load
until there's been a brownout or power loss for a couple of cycles.
This might not be fast enough to keep your modem happy.

If your modem uses a 12 VDC supply from its wall-wart, you might be
able to fix the problem by using a "12-volt" gel cell as a power
supply, with a well-regulated DC supply of 13.4 - 13.5 volts to keep
it charged up. If the AC voltage sags for a moment, the modem
wouldn't even notice.

Another possibility is that it's a burst of RF noise, carried in
differential mode on the power wiring, when the bimetallic switch
opens or closes. A common-mode ferrite on the wall-wart cord wouldn't
help with this, I think. You could try either of two things:

- A differential-and-common mode AC-line filter, at the modem. Some
AC power strips incorporate them, and you can get ones with better
filtering/attenuation in sealed metal cans, with either wire-lead
or push-on connectors (Corcom and others make 'em, and electronics-
surplus stores usually have some).

- A snubber, at the stove itself (the source of the problem). The
snubbers I've seen are usually caps of .1 - 1 uF in capacity,
in series with a few ohms of resistance, in a flame-resistant
plastic encapsulation. They're designed and rated for use
directly across a power line (I believe they have "X" and "Y"
rating codes).

You'd probably need to have one of these wired in across the line,
either just before or just after the bimetallic switch. Probably
the sort of thing which should be done by a licensed electrician.

A battery-powered-modem-with-float-charger-backup might also be a good
way to deal with the problem if its cause is RF noise on the phone
line. You could add additional filtering of the DC before it reaches
the battery, to keep it well out of the modem's supply.

Hmmm... another thought. You might want to check the arrangments by
which the phone lines are safety-grounded at your building's MPOE.
If your phone line's grounding system is connected to the same ground
rod as the power (which it probably is), and if there's any amount of
"ground bounce" when the stove load is turned on or off, and if
there's some amount of current leakage in the phone line protection
system (e.g. if it has old-style carbon-block spike-eaters, or if
there's a dirt-and-moisture current path) then it's perhaps
conceivable that turning the stove on and off might result in a
momentary voltage spike on the phone line due to this common-ground-path
setup.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:56:37 -0000, (Dave Platt)
wrote:

In article ,
default wrote:

My electric stove is talking to my modem, resulting in the modem
dropping its speed back or losing the connection (dial up). I can
turn any burner on high and everything works. Turn the "infinite"
control to a midpoint heat setting and the modem goes out to lunch.

The controls are primitive types with a heater and bimetallic strip
inside them (I disassembled one to fix it). The contacts appear to be
real silver.

Seems to me that you may have either (or both) of two problems: a
brief voltage drop when the stove heating element is switched on
(perhaps enough to "brown out" the modem's power supply) or a burst of
RF noise when the contacts open and close.

I'd guess that the stove heater element is drawing a pretty hefty
surge when it's first turned on, before it heats up and its resistance
increases. This might result in a one- or two-cycle voltage-drop
brownout which affects the whole circuit and may show up in other
circuits as well... it'd depend on the quality of the house wiring and
of your electrical service connection.

If this is the case, you might be able to correct its effect on the
modem by using a UPS. Unfortunately, most consumer-type "UPS"
products are actually SPS (standby power supply) designs, and they
don't turn on their inverter and supply power to the device-under-load
until there's been a brownout or power loss for a couple of cycles.
This might not be fast enough to keep your modem happy.

If your modem uses a 12 VDC supply from its wall-wart, you might be
able to fix the problem by using a "12-volt" gel cell as a power
supply, with a well-regulated DC supply of 13.4 - 13.5 volts to keep
it charged up. If the AC voltage sags for a moment, the modem
wouldn't even notice.

Another possibility is that it's a burst of RF noise, carried in
differential mode on the power wiring, when the bimetallic switch
opens or closes. A common-mode ferrite on the wall-wart cord wouldn't
help with this, I think. You could try either of two things:

- A differential-and-common mode AC-line filter, at the modem. Some
AC power strips incorporate them, and you can get ones with better
filtering/attenuation in sealed metal cans, with either wire-lead
or push-on connectors (Corcom and others make 'em, and electronics-
surplus stores usually have some).

- A snubber, at the stove itself (the source of the problem). The
snubbers I've seen are usually caps of .1 - 1 uF in capacity,
in series with a few ohms of resistance, in a flame-resistant
plastic encapsulation. They're designed and rated for use
directly across a power line (I believe they have "X" and "Y"
rating codes).

You'd probably need to have one of these wired in across the line,
either just before or just after the bimetallic switch. Probably
the sort of thing which should be done by a licensed electrician.

A battery-powered-modem-with-float-charger-backup might also be a good
way to deal with the problem if its cause is RF noise on the phone
line. You could add additional filtering of the DC before it reaches
the battery, to keep it well out of the modem's supply.

Hmmm... another thought. You might want to check the arrangments by
which the phone lines are safety-grounded at your building's MPOE.
If your phone line's grounding system is connected to the same ground
rod as the power (which it probably is), and if there's any amount of
"ground bounce" when the stove load is turned on or off, and if
there's some amount of current leakage in the phone line protection
system (e.g. if it has old-style carbon-block spike-eaters, or if
there's a dirt-and-moisture current path) then it's perhaps
conceivable that turning the stove on and off might result in a
momentary voltage spike on the phone line due to this common-ground-path
setup.

Thanks Dave

I do have a common ground for phone and AC at the box, I figured
lifting the ground and watching with a scope as the stove cycled ruled
it out. I can lift it at the 'puter end and see what happens.

Phone has a MOV protector and it was put in 5 years ago. All wiring
looks clean and AC and Phone are outside a few feet apart with no
common path (and problem doesn't get worse with rain etc.)

You did give me two ideas I hadn't thought of. Snubbers on the stove
and a battery isolator on the modem. I think it is 12 AC but the case
comes apart easily.

Make that three - brown out, my AC line runs 106 to 108 most days. I
don't complain to the power company because I figure it probably saves
me money in the long run (power bill ~$20 month for year average but
I'm frugal too). I do have a variac and can wire a boost transformer
to the modem if need be. The three terminal regulator in the modem
runs hot so I guess I developed a blind spot about the low voltage
possibility.

Thanks again


An electrician? perish the thought. The stove is just a big metal box
with a few switches and resistors in it. Besides it can be unplugged
or switched at the breaker. (how I normally work on it)

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:00:32 -0500, default wrote:

snip

Make that three - brown out, my AC line runs 106 to 108 most days. I
don't complain to the power company because I figure it probably saves
me money in the long run (power bill ~$20 month for year average but
I'm frugal too). I do have a variac and can wire a boost transformer
to the modem if need be. The three terminal regulator in the modem
runs hot so I guess I developed a blind spot about the low voltage
possibility.

That low voltage sucks. What's the DC coming from the AC adapter
look like on a scope?

--
Best Regards,
Mike

pork, lamb,
poultry, and vegetables; just about anything can be grilled, and young humans
are no exception!

High quality marinade (Teriyaki and garlic perhaps)
1 inch cubes of tender meat, preferably from the nursery
Onions
bell peppers
Wooden or metal skewers

Marinate the meat overnight.
Get the grill good and hot while placing meat, vegetables, and
fruit such as pineapples or cherries on the skewers.
Don?t be afraid to use a variety of meats.
Grill to medium rare,
serve with garlic cous-cous and sautéed asparagus.
Coffee and sherbet for desert then walnuts, cheese, and port.
Cigars for the gentlemen (and ladies if they so desire)!



Crock-Pot Crack Baby

When the quivering, hopelessly addicted crack baby succumbs to death,
get him immediately butchered and into the crock-pot, so that any
remaining toxins will not be fatal. But don?t cook it too long,
because like Blowfish, there is a perfect medium between the poisonous
and the stimulating. Though it may not have the same effect on your
guests, a whole chicken cooked in this fashion is also mighty tasty.

1 newborn - cocaine addicted, freshly expired, cleaned and butchered
Carrots
onions
leeks
celery
bell pepper
potatoes
Salt
pepper
garlic, etc
4 cups water

Cut the meat into natural pieces and brown very well in olive oil,
remove, then brown half of the onions, the bell pepper,