On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 13:08:08 GMT, NoSpam wrote:

wrote:


2) Do modern refrigerators in apartments use ordinary AC sockets or
3-phase?

It would be an unusual residential apartment which has 3-phase AC
service of any kind directly incoming to the individual apartment.

Not just apartments, but few residences of any type get three phase
power.

In fact, people who want to have a shop with three phase power usually
need to have it added. The usual power setup for residences is what
you have described. 70-200 amp, 110VAC single phase is typical supply
for a home or apartment. The newer the contruction, the more amps in
the supply.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

hi!
i've always wondered what phase-shift there is between those two 110V lines
in an USA 220V AC net system.

here we have either one phase of 230V or then 3 phase
with 120 degrees between the phases.
230V between phase to ground or 400V (third root of 3 times 230V of course)
between phases

everyone has direct 3-phase system with 230V to ground in every apartment or
house splitted up to equal load on the phases.

cheers
as


"Gary S."
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 13:08:08 GMT, NoSpam wrote:

wrote:


2) Do modern refrigerators in apartments use ordinary AC sockets or
3-phase?

It would be an unusual residential apartment which has 3-phase AC
service of any kind directly incoming to the individual apartment.

Not just apartments, but few residences of any type get three phase
power.

In fact, people who want to have a shop with three phase power usually
need to have it added. The usual power setup for residences is what
you have described. 70-200 amp, 110VAC single phase is typical supply
for a home or apartment. The newer the contruction, the more amps in
the supply.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 16:37:28 +0200, "asta" wrote:

hi!
i've always wondered what phase-shift there is between those two 110V lines
in an USA 220V AC net system.

here we have either one phase of 230V or then 3 phase
with 120 degrees between the phases.
230V between phase to ground or 400V (third root of 3 times 230V of course)
between phases

everyone has direct 3-phase system with 230V to ground in every apartment or
house splitted up to equal load on the phases.

There cannot be any, as they come off the same transformer.

A few appliances in most houses use the full 220 VAC, such as electric
heat, clothes dryer, electric range or oven, so there cannot be a
phase differential.

Industrial electrical installations are a different thing entirely,
even if they come off the same grid and substations as nearby
residential areas. IIRC, power comes to the substation as 480 3 phase,
and it is what happens after that varies between residential and
serious industrial.

Many electricians here do little industrial electrical work after
their testing and concntrae on homes, and there are a few who
specialize in industrial work.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

"Gary S." Idontwantspam@net wrote in message
...
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 16:37:28 +0200, "asta" wrote:

hi!
i've always wondered what phase-shift there is between those two 110V
lines
in an USA 220V AC net system.
There cannot be any, as they come off the same transformer.

Actually, the lines are opposite phase (180 degrees), 110 VAC RMS relative
to neutral/ground. If they were the same phase, then your 220V appliances
would see 0V.

Tom

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:07:03 -0500, "Tom Holden"
wrote:

"Gary S." Idontwantspam@net wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 16:37:28 +0200, "asta" wrote:

hi!
i've always wondered what phase-shift there is between those two 110V
lines
in an USA 220V AC net system.
There cannot be any, as they come off the same transformer.

Actually, the lines are opposite phase (180 degrees), 110 VAC RMS relative
to neutral/ground. If they were the same phase, then your 220V appliances
would see 0V.

My bad.

I don't really think of 180 as a phase shift, as much as a reverse
polarity.

Of course, both are true.

The three wire supply coming into the house is pretty standard in the
US residential electrical service, with +120/neutral/-120.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 14:53:04 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 16:37:28 +0200, "asta" wrote:

hi!
i've always wondered what phase-shift there is between those two 110V lines
in an USA 220V AC net system.

There cannot be any, as they come off the same transformer.

The phase shift in the Western hemisphere residential power
distribution system is 180 degrees, since the system is basically a
single phase system, with a 2x110 V secondary, with the centre tap
grounded.

The rest of the world is using some three phase systems for
residential distribution, either 127/220 or 230/400 V.

Paul OH3LWR

hi!
thanks a lot for the info.
it clarified someting i've been wondering for a while.
actually i had come to the same result by myself, just wanted a confirmation

cheers,
ab

"Paul Keinanen"
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 14:53:04 GMT, Gary S.
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 16:37:28 +0200, "asta"
hi!
i've always wondered what phase-shift there is between those two 110V
lines
in an USA 220V AC net system.

There cannot be any, as they come off the same transformer.

The phase shift in the Western hemisphere residential power
distribution system is 180 degrees, since the system is basically a
single phase system, with a 2x110 V secondary, with the centre tap
grounded.

The rest of the world is using some three phase systems for
residential distribution, either 127/220 or 230/400 V.

Paul OH3LWR

"asta" wrote in message
...
hi!
i've always wondered what phase-shift there is between those two 110V
lines in an USA 220V AC net system.

I think the answer to your question is either no phase shift or 180 degrees.
(The two conductors you mention are the two ends of the same phase!)
To explain; coming into the typical North American residence is a three wire
service.
The three wires are the two ends of and the centre tap of a single phase 230
volt secondary winding of the power utility distribution or step down
transformer located nearby. Note 1.
Thus there is 230 volts single phase between the two outer conductors or
legs and 115 volts between each of them and the centre tap. The centre tap
is grounded/earthed at the transformer and again (once only) where the
service enters the house.
It becomes the neutral or zero voltage wire.
Some people, including electricians, incorrectly refer to the two outer
conductors, each at 115v to neutral, as 'Phases'!
They are not and a more understandable designation is 'Legs'.
Typical colour coding is Leg A = Black, Neutral = White, Leg B = Red.
Although this is AC you can, sort of, think of it as Black = Plus 115 volts,
White = 0 volts, Red = Minus 115 volts.
Within the house heavy appliances that require considerable wattage, such as
a water heater or cooking stove are connected to 230 volts through double
pole breakers. (Some also have 115 volt items, e.g. an oven light, so also
use the neutral wire.
Everything in house has a ground/earth (bare or green) wire; which does not
carry any current for safety.
The 115 volt loads comprising lights and outlets are distributed over both
legs in a hopefully balanced manner through single pole breakers. It works
well and the maximum voltage to ground or neutral is 115v AC RMS.
If you want a comparison; think about those single phase safety transformers
they often use now on British construction sites, with 115 volt tools. As I
understand they step down the normal 230v to 115v, that in itself is less
voltage. The centre tap of the 115 volt secondary (again as I understand) is
grounded. Thus the maximum voltage to ground is half the 115 volts. That's
57.5 volts RMS and about 81 volts peak; much safer eh?
So our North American residential service is, sort of, similar.
Any help?
In commercial work you may get into three phase, one voltage used is 347
volts AC RMS e.g. lighting in a say a supermarket.
Note 1. A typical 'primary' distribution voltage from the subsation some 5
kilometres away is around 12.7 kilovolts. The lane behind our house has a
single phase 2 wire (live plus neutral) primary; various step down
distribution transformers supply groups or individual houses each with a 3
wire 230 volt centre tapped supply. In this area it is all overhead. While
o.head distribution can be more easily damaged by weather it is much quicker
to repair than underground plant, imagine moving three feet of snow and then
digging into frozen ground! And maybe breaking the telephone cable while
doing it! The poles are shared with telephone and TV cable systems. Thus in
quite small communities we have a choice of internet service from the cable
TV provider via their coax, or ADSL from the telco, or dial up over regular
telephone etc. In competition with cable TV (analogue and now also digital)
we now have two Canadian satellite systems and in many areas of Canada
people can subscribe to US satellite services as well.
Long winded answer but hope it helps.
Terry.