Bill,

One of the wires is a ground, the other is the antenna. Would this
still be a dipole? Thanks for your previous post!

Yes Bill.
It sounds like that is serving as a dipole.
I too would strongly suspect that is a 75 ohm BALANCED output.
You should be able to remove the wires which are serving as the "dipole" and
run them to a 1:1 balun and the other side of the balun to a 50-75 ohm
unbalanced antenna. Or, to the input of a FM power amp....

Warmest regards,
John

"erichmadison" wrote in message
oups.com...
| Bill,
|
| One of the wires is a ground, the other is the antenna. Would this
| still be a dipole? Thanks for your previous post!
|

What would happen if he didn't use a balun?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

John Smith wrote:
Yes Bill.
It sounds like that is serving as a dipole.
I too would strongly suspect that is a 75 ohm BALANCED output.
You should be able to remove the wires which are serving as the "dipole" and
run them to a 1:1 balun and the other side of the balun to a 50-75 ohm
unbalanced antenna. Or, to the input of a FM power amp....

Warmest regards,
John

"erichmadison" wrote in message
oups.com...
| Bill,
|
| One of the wires is a ground, the other is the antenna. Would this
| still be a dipole? Thanks for your previous post!
|

If the output is really Unbalanced, and he fed an unbalanced ant of 50
ohms--nothing--as likely a 1.5:1 (75/50) match as not...

Or, depending on the type of ant he picks (75 ohm bal/unbal), and taking for
granted the output of the rig is balanced--probably just a distortion of the
radiation field of the ant (won't EXACTLY perform as modeled)...

Even if he feeds a bal ant of 200 ohms (folded dipole, and output is
balanced, all he sees is a high (200/75) SWR, and distance is reduced...

But, hey, I am a newbie... that is only my best guess(s)...

Warmest regards,
John

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
| What would happen if he didn't use a balun?
|
| Roy Lewallen, W7EL
|
| John Smith wrote:
| Yes Bill.
| It sounds like that is serving as a dipole.
| I too would strongly suspect that is a 75 ohm BALANCED output.
| You should be able to remove the wires which are serving as the "dipole"
and
| run them to a 1:1 balun and the other side of the balun to a 50-75 ohm
| unbalanced antenna. Or, to the input of a FM power amp....
|
| Warmest regards,
| John
|
| "erichmadison" wrote in message
| oups.com...
| | Bill,
| |
| | One of the wires is a ground, the other is the antenna. Would this
| | still be a dipole? Thanks for your previous post!
| |
|
|

erichmadison wrote:

Bill,

One of the wires is a ground, the other is the antenna. Would this
still be a dipole? Thanks for your previous post!

'Ground' has various implications when it comes to rf. If they tell you
to attach it to a water pipe or ground rod then it may be a true dc
ground. If they tell you to extend it just like the antenna side and
not connect it to anything, then its an RF ground plane...which can be
compared to rabbit ears, dipole, etc.

Is it balanced or not? Hard to guess.

-Bill

An "Unbalanced Dipole", interesting concept...

Regards,
John

"Bill" wrote in message
...
| erichmadison wrote:
|
| Bill,
|
| One of the wires is a ground, the other is the antenna. Would this
| still be a dipole? Thanks for your previous post!
|
| 'Ground' has various implications when it comes to rf. If they tell you
| to attach it to a water pipe or ground rod then it may be a true dc
| ground. If they tell you to extend it just like the antenna side and
| not connect it to anything, then its an RF ground plane...which can be
| compared to rabbit ears, dipole, etc.
|
| Is it balanced or not? Hard to guess.
|
| -Bill

What exactly do you mean by "balanced"?

If you put a balun between a "balanced" radio and a "balanced" antenna,
what would happen? What would happen if you put it between an
"unbalanced" radio and an "unbalanced" antenna? What would happen if you
connected an "unbalanced" radio to a "balanced" antenna without a balun?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

John Smith wrote:
An "Unbalanced Dipole", interesting concept...

Regards,
John

"Bill" wrote in message
...
| erichmadison wrote:
|
| Bill,
|
| One of the wires is a ground, the other is the antenna. Would this
| still be a dipole? Thanks for your previous post!
|
| 'Ground' has various implications when it comes to rf. If they tell you
| to attach it to a water pipe or ground rod then it may be a true dc
| ground. If they tell you to extend it just like the antenna side and
| not connect it to anything, then its an RF ground plane...which can be
| compared to rabbit ears, dipole, etc.
|
| Is it balanced or not? Hard to guess.
|
| -Bill

That is why I mentioned "UnUn." It is taken for granted he will ask, or use
the correct one (Balun/UnUn)...

A balanced "supplies its own ground." A ground or "counterpoise" is NOT
required for the ant to work against...

Warmest regards,
John

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
| What exactly do you mean by "balanced"?
|
| If you put a balun between a "balanced" radio and a "balanced" antenna,
| what would happen? What would happen if you put it between an
| "unbalanced" radio and an "unbalanced" antenna? What would happen if you
| connected an "unbalanced" radio to a "balanced" antenna without a balun?
|
| Roy Lewallen, W7EL
|
| John Smith wrote:
| An "Unbalanced Dipole", interesting concept...
|
| Regards,
| John
|
| "Bill" wrote in message
| ...
| | erichmadison wrote:
| |
| | Bill,
| |
| | One of the wires is a ground, the other is the antenna. Would this
| | still be a dipole? Thanks for your previous post!
| |
| | 'Ground' has various implications when it comes to rf. If they tell
you
| | to attach it to a water pipe or ground rod then it may be a true dc
| | ground. If they tell you to extend it just like the antenna side and
| | not connect it to anything, then its an RF ground plane...which can be
| | compared to rabbit ears, dipole, etc.
| |
| | Is it balanced or not? Hard to guess.
| |
| | -Bill
|
|

So then a dipole with one leg 5 times as long as the other would be a
"balanced" antenna. I see.

Tell me, how is this "ground" "supplied"? What exactly is a "ground",
say 50 feet up in the air?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

John Smith wrote:
. . .
A balanced "supplies its own ground." A ground or "counterpoise" is NOT
required for the ant to work against...

Warmest regards,
John

Well, "di" = two, so in that sense, "dipole" would not necessarly be
balanced--however, that is not what I expect when someone tells me they have
a "dipole."

Although, quite well granted, it qualifies (my groundplane ant is a
"dipole", but I think I would mislead if I stated that in some circles! (as
it does have a few extra "legs" on one side.) However, it (the radials)
could be viewed as one single conductor, in the sense a tophat might be a
sheet, or a set of multiple wires, or the bottom cone of a "discone"
composed of many "legs" as compared to one solid sheet of conductor...

Semantics: retarded person = mentally disabled = special needs =
handicapped, etc... don't ya just love it!

"Gound" at 1000 ft in the air is a counterpoise (body of an aircraft, most
likely what the neg lead of the power source is hooked to), could be one
long wire to ground too--most likely in need of "tuning" to function
optimally....

If I someone stuck a 1K resistor (or diode-anode towards +) between my
chasis of the radio and the negative lead (probably best to bypass it with a
cap at rf in question), the top of that 1K resistor (or cathode of diode) is
"real ground"--in the sense of "time" being real... they "ground" every
telephone pole now and then, because across distances "earth ground" is not
"equal ground."

If your point is that "ground" is relative--I know a guy who claimed that of
the whole universe....

That guys ground could well be the chasis (even though a 1k resistor!), or
the other side of coil with its center at "ground", or not... etc.

But, those two wires he described are two wires of equal length, so, suggest
themselves as a "conventional dipole", with nothing else to go on--I am
willing to accept that...

I have been wrong before, is so this time--I learn something...

Warmest regards,
John

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
| So then a dipole with one leg 5 times as long as the other would be a
| "balanced" antenna. I see.
|
| Tell me, how is this "ground" "supplied"? What exactly is a "ground",
| say 50 feet up in the air?
|
| Roy Lewallen, W7EL
|
| John Smith wrote:
| . . .
| A balanced "supplies its own ground." A ground or "counterpoise" is NOT
| required for the ant to work against...
|
| Warmest regards,
| John