What Is Ham Radio - A Weekly F.A.Q.
 

What is Ham Radio?

(Nothing whatsoever to do with Mrs.Nugatory and
her infantile obsessive habits, that's for sure!)

Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.

Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!

This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.

Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.

The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years
and now encompasses DSP and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.

The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.

-----OOOOO----

However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults;
they have not satisfied any technical qualification
and their licences prevent the use of
self-designed-and-built equipment.

These CB types engage in the competitive activities
with their Cheque-Book-purchased off-the-shelf radios
in a forlorn effort to prove that they are Radio Hams.

No _REAL_ Radio Hams are deceived by such people!

PM:

Most of that is fictional... lots of "could have", "should have", "would
have" which it suggests though...

Computer related hardware/software is where all of the engineers are
coming from today.

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:34:33 -0700, Polymath wrote:

What is Ham Radio?

(Nothing whatsoever to do with Mrs.Nugatory and
her infantile obsessive habits, that's for sure!)

Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.

Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!

This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.

Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.

The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years
and now encompasses DSP and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.

The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.

-----OOOOO----

However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults;
they have not satisfied any technical qualification
and their licences prevent the use of
self-designed-and-built equipment.

These CB types engage in the competitive activities
with their Cheque-Book-purchased off-the-shelf radios
in a forlorn effort to prove that they are Radio Hams.

No _REAL_ Radio Hams are deceived by such people!

If you feel that it is fictional, then it is almost
certain that you are one of the latter-day recruits
whose style is that of CB Radio, the very type that
I warn against.

Perhaps the horse has already bolted?

John Smith wrote:
PM:

Most of that is fictional... lots of "could have", "should have", "would
have" which it suggests though...

Computer related hardware/software is where all of the engineers are
coming from today.

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:34:33 -0700, Polymath wrote:

What is Ham Radio?

(Nothing whatsoever to do with Mrs.Nugatory and
her infantile obsessive habits, that's for sure!)

Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.

Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!

This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.

Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.

The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years
and now encompasses DSP and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.

The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.

-----OOOOO----

However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults;
they have not satisfied any technical qualification
and their licences prevent the use of
self-designed-and-built equipment.

These CB types engage in the competitive activities
with their Cheque-Book-purchased off-the-shelf radios
in a forlorn effort to prove that they are Radio Hams.

No _REAL_ Radio Hams are deceived by such people!

Polymath wrote:
If you feel that it is fictional, then it is almost
certain that you are one of the latter-day recruits
whose style is that of CB Radio, the very type that
I warn against.

It is fictional as is your charge



Perhaps the horse has already bolted?

Perhaps even "KB9RQZ" is a CB call sign?

an_old_friend wrote:
Polymath wrote:
If you feel that it is fictional, then it is almost
certain that you are one of the latter-day recruits
whose style is that of CB Radio, the very type that
I warn against.

It is fictional as is your charge



Perhaps the horse has already bolted?

Polymath wrote:
Perhaps even "KB9RQZ" is a CB call sign?

nope no call signs in CB, at least not in the US

you are just writing bafflegab to use an expression of one of MY fav
Birtish chacters, the Doctor, of course



an_old_friend wrote:
Polymath wrote:
If you feel that it is fictional, then it is almost
certain that you are one of the latter-day recruits
whose style is that of CB Radio, the very type that
I warn against.

It is fictional as is your charge



Perhaps the horse has already bolted?

PM:

No, new technology came, amateur radio was too slow to adapt, it began the
way of the dodo and has progressed along that course beginning in the late
60's leading right up to today, and continuing...

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:08:30 -0700, Polymath wrote:

If you feel that it is fictional, then it is almost
certain that you are one of the latter-day recruits
whose style is that of CB Radio, the very type that
I warn against.

Perhaps the horse has already bolted?

John Smith wrote:
PM:

Most of that is fictional... lots of "could have", "should have", "would
have" which it suggests though...

Computer related hardware/software is where all of the engineers are
coming from today.

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 12:34:33 -0700, Polymath wrote:

What is Ham Radio?

(Nothing whatsoever to do with Mrs.Nugatory and
her infantile obsessive habits, that's for sure!)

Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.

Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!

This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.

Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.

The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years
and now encompasses DSP and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.

The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.

-----OOOOO----

However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults;
they have not satisfied any technical qualification
and their licences prevent the use of
self-designed-and-built equipment.

These CB types engage in the competitive activities
with their Cheque-Book-purchased off-the-shelf radios
in a forlorn effort to prove that they are Radio Hams.

No _REAL_ Radio Hams are deceived by such people!

AOF:

Who? Doctor Who? :|

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:36:54 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:


Polymath wrote:
Perhaps even "KB9RQZ" is a CB call sign?

nope no call signs in CB, at least not in the US

you are just writing bafflegab to use an expression of one of MY fav
Birtish chacters, the Doctor, of course



an_old_friend wrote:
Polymath wrote:
If you feel that it is fictional, then it is almost
certain that you are one of the latter-day recruits
whose style is that of CB Radio, the very type that
I warn against.

It is fictional as is your charge



Perhaps the horse has already bolted?

PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:27:42 -0700, Polymath wrote:

Perhaps even "KB9RQZ" is a CB call sign?

an_old_friend wrote:
Polymath wrote:
If you feel that it is fictional, then it is almost
certain that you are one of the latter-day recruits
whose style is that of CB Radio, the very type that
I warn against.

It is fictional as is your charge



Perhaps the horse has already bolted?

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Most of that is fictional... lots of "could have", "should have", "would
have" which it suggests though...

Computer related hardware/software is where all of the engineers are
coming from today.

John

I guess you never put together a crystal set or a 1-tube radio, or designed
your own VFO-controlled transmitter. I did, and from those days in 7th
grade, I knew what I was going to do the rest of my life. By sophomore year
in high school I learned to send and receive Morse Code at 15 WPM so I could
be sure to meet the 13WPM requirement for my Ham license. At 21, my
Engineering education was interrupted by the draft, and I joined the Navy to
become an Electronics Technician and service radar and communications
equipment for 4 years. Resuming my education, I became an Electrical
Engineer and worked in industry for the next 38 years, continuously learning
new things as they became current technology. I was never laid off or a
victim of "reduction in force" through that entire career - - because I was
a "natural" and kept my skills up to meet the needs of my employer. Ham
radio is an excellent start for anyone who has a curiosity and fascination
about electronics, be it represented by radio communications or computers or
industrial control technology.

I was inspired by Polymath's description of the good effects of ham radio on
its devotees. He should be congratulated on his explanation - - a very
readable and true to life presentation.

73, Chuck W6PKP

Chuck:

Your text reminds me of some of the "motivational speakers" on TV.

I don't dispute it may well be true, for a past age, just not accurate
under todays technology and the state amateur radio now exists in...

.... yesterday just doesn't matter, today is only useful for being able to
plan tomorrow, tomorrow is where it is at!

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:22:02 -0700, Chuck Olson wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Most of that is fictional... lots of "could have", "should have", "would
have" which it suggests though...

Computer related hardware/software is where all of the engineers are
coming from today.

John

I guess you never put together a crystal set or a 1-tube radio, or designed
your own VFO-controlled transmitter. I did, and from those days in 7th
grade, I knew what I was going to do the rest of my life. By sophomore year
in high school I learned to send and receive Morse Code at 15 WPM so I could
be sure to meet the 13WPM requirement for my Ham license. At 21, my
Engineering education was interrupted by the draft, and I joined the Navy to
become an Electronics Technician and service radar and communications
equipment for 4 years. Resuming my education, I became an Electrical
Engineer and worked in industry for the next 38 years, continuously learning
new things as they became current technology. I was never laid off or a
victim of "reduction in force" through that entire career - - because I was
a "natural" and kept my skills up to meet the needs of my employer. Ham
radio is an excellent start for anyone who has a curiosity and fascination
about electronics, be it represented by radio communications or computers or
industrial control technology.

I was inspired by Polymath's description of the good effects of ham radio on
its devotees. He should be congratulated on his explanation - - a very
readable and true to life presentation.

73, Chuck W6PKP

John Smith wrote:

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at
them using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior.
They lack the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos,
documents, etc. by transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then,
they show you a CW key and you are dumb struck, and leave. You
return to the internet and current technology, never to stray
again... you begin a web site and consider what position you would
like in the computer field, when you grow up...


Fabulously put.
--
huLLy
Mobile phone 07976 123278
ICQ 136-987-925

"Polymath" wrote

What is Ham Radio?

This message is a VERY brief attempt to explain the hobby and give
some pointers on where to get more information. Almost certainly I won't
answer all your questions, so feel free to ask for help. Hams are famous
for their eagerness to help newcomers. I should also point out that
this explanation assumes you live in the USA. Almost every country
has hams (amateur radio operators), but each has their own name
for the various classes of license, and the test requirements vary from
country to country.

(First I have to explain something you might not have realized. In
doing so, I'm going to paraphrase something written by Steve Ford,
WB8IMY, in his introduction to a book entitled "The ARRL Operating
Manual".)

In case you didn't know, belief in magic is a necessary requirement
for all Amateur Radio operators. Of course, you won't see a question
concerning magic or metaphysics on the test you take to obtain your
license, but in your heart you will come to believe in that powerful,
intangible force.

All of us in the hobby have felt its influence at one time or
another. Some night when the band is dead as a doornail you'll be
tuning aimlessly, not expecting to hear a single signal because NOTHING
could be coming through at that hour. But then, rising out of the noise
like a ghost, there will be a faint call from another stalwart explorer
thousands of miles distant. You pounce, establish contact and both of
you marvel at the fact that the conversation is taking place at all. A
few minutes later, however, the signal vanishes as quickly as it came.
Your rational mind will shrug it off as a quirk of propagation, but
that little tingle in your gut will tell you otherwise.

If you could travel back in time to, say, 1305 AD, you'd probably
be burned at the nearest stake for even suggesting that two human
beings could communicate with each other over great distances without a
physical connection. No doubt they would accuse you of dabbling in
magic -- and they'd be right!

As Amateur Radio operators, we work feats of magic every day. Many
of us have become jaded about our powers and we tend to dismiss them as
commonplace. We hardly think twice when we use our equipment to sommon
the elemental forces of the universe. But every so often we need to
pause and remind ourselves of what we are really doing. We need to
remember the essence of what drew us to our unusual avocation in the
first place: the wonderful magic of wireless communications.

So how can YOU become a magician?

First, you need to prepare to obtain a Magicians License. The Federal
Communications Commission calls them Amateur Radio Operator Licenses,
and they come in 3 "classes".

The Technician class license, is currently the most popular class,
providing the "first taste of magic" to most new licensees. There
is no Morse code examination for this license, and the written
examination is not considered difficult by most applicants. The
frequency bands for this license are largely "local" in nature. (You
can gain access to some "long distance" bands if you pass a slow
(5 words per minute) Morse examination, but this option may soon
be history if a recent FCC is adopted.)

The other two classes of license are General and Extra.
These two classes have access to portions of all amateur bands, with
progressively more difficult exams, and a requirement requirement
to pass a 5 word per minute Morse code exam.

To prepare for the exams you will need some study material and more
information about classes, examination points (the exams are given by
volunteer Hams in your community), and clubs in your area. A number of
organizations will be more than willing to help. One such organization
is the American Radio Relay League. They are on the Web at
http://www.arrl.org.

Or you can write them at:

ARRL 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111

or call them at 1-800-32NEWHAM

Ask for their "Prospective Ham Package". It will include more
detailed information, a list of classes and clubs in your area, and a
list of scheduled examinations in your area. Include your ZIP
code in your query so they can send you info tailored for your
location.

If you are near a Radio Shack store, go there and ask for a book
entitled "Now You're Talking". This book is also available from the
ARRL. It contains all the information you need, including study
material and sample questions for the examination for the Technician
license.

Good luck, and welcome to the "magical" hobby.

Regards,

Hans, K0HB

a much better peice of writing

K=D8HB wrote:
"Polymath" wrote

What is Ham Radio?

This message is a VERY brief attempt to explain the hobby and give
some pointers on where to get more information. Almost certainly I won't
answer all your questions, so feel free to ask for help. Hams are famous
for their eagerness to help newcomers. I should also point out that
this explanation assumes you live in the USA. Almost every country
has hams (amateur radio operators), but each has their own name
for the various classes of license, and the test requirements vary from
country to country.

(First I have to explain something you might not have realized. In
doing so, I'm going to paraphrase something written by Steve Ford,
WB8IMY, in his introduction to a book entitled "The ARRL Operating
Manual".)

In case you didn't know, belief in magic is a necessary requirement
for all Amateur Radio operators. Of course, you won't see a question
concerning magic or metaphysics on the test you take to obtain your
license, but in your heart you will come to believe in that powerful,
intangible force.

All of us in the hobby have felt its influence at one time or
another. Some night when the band is dead as a doornail you'll be
tuning aimlessly, not expecting to hear a single signal because NOTHING
could be coming through at that hour. But then, rising out of the noise
like a ghost, there will be a faint call from another stalwart explorer
thousands of miles distant. You pounce, establish contact and both of
you marvel at the fact that the conversation is taking place at all. A
few minutes later, however, the signal vanishes as quickly as it came.
Your rational mind will shrug it off as a quirk of propagation, but
that little tingle in your gut will tell you otherwise.

If you could travel back in time to, say, 1305 AD, you'd probably
be burned at the nearest stake for even suggesting that two human
beings could communicate with each other over great distances without a
physical connection. No doubt they would accuse you of dabbling in
magic -- and they'd be right!

As Amateur Radio operators, we work feats of magic every day. Many
of us have become jaded about our powers and we tend to dismiss them as
commonplace. We hardly think twice when we use our equipment to sommon
the elemental forces of the universe. But every so often we need to
pause and remind ourselves of what we are really doing. We need to
remember the essence of what drew us to our unusual avocation in the
first place: the wonderful magic of wireless communications.

So how can YOU become a magician?

First, you need to prepare to obtain a Magicians License. The Federal
Communications Commission calls them Amateur Radio Operator Licenses,
and they come in 3 "classes".

The Technician class license, is currently the most popular class,
providing the "first taste of magic" to most new licensees. There
is no Morse code examination for this license, and the written
examination is not considered difficult by most applicants. The
frequency bands for this license are largely "local" in nature. (You
can gain access to some "long distance" bands if you pass a slow
(5 words per minute) Morse examination, but this option may soon
be history if a recent FCC is adopted.)

The other two classes of license are General and Extra.
These two classes have access to portions of all amateur bands, with
progressively more difficult exams, and a requirement requirement
to pass a 5 word per minute Morse code exam.

To prepare for the exams you will need some study material and more
information about classes, examination points (the exams are given by
volunteer Hams in your community), and clubs in your area. A number of
organizations will be more than willing to help. One such organization
is the American Radio Relay League. They are on the Web at
http://www.arrl.org.

Or you can write them at:

ARRL 225 Main Street Newington, CT 06111

or call them at 1-800-32NEWHAM

Ask for their "Prospective Ham Package". It will include more
detailed information, a list of classes and clubs in your area, and a
list of scheduled examinations in your area. Include your ZIP
code in your query so they can send you info tailored for your
location.

If you are near a Radio Shack store, go there and ask for a book
entitled "Now You're Talking". This book is also available from the
ARRL. It contains all the information you need, including study
material and sample questions for the examination for the Technician
license.

Good luck, and welcome to the "magical" hobby.
=20
Regards,
=20
Hans, K0HB

On 12 Aug 2005 12:34:33 -0700, "Polymath"
wrote:

they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist...

Actually it was CB band competition between a friend and I combined
with my desire to understand radio that turned me in to a ham. When I
was back in school my friend and I started trying to see who could put
out the strongest signal. His father bought him an amplifier to get
over me. I was not going to ask my parents for an amplifier, and I
did not have any money to buy one since I was a full time student. I
had heard the phrase "Knowledge is power", so I decided if I could not
buy a bigger amp to get over my friend I would have to out smart him
with brain power.
I went to the school library and started reading radio handbooks
like Bill Orr's handbook. When a radio repair tech at the local ham
store realized I truly wanted to learn the science of radio he gave me
a copy of the 1983 ARRL handbook for free (it was 1984 at the time).
I read that book until it fell apart. Then I bought another ARRL
radio book, and then another radio book, and then another radio book.
I'm still doing that all these years later. The radios I talk on (a
Tempo 2020, Drake 4 B line twins, Yaesu FT-101ee, and a Midland 79-892
40 channel sideband CB) were all someone else's broken door stop. None
of them worked when I bought them. I repaired them all, and I made
most of my antennas. When I talk on those old radios part of me
smiles, because I know the only reason those radios are still working
is because I put them back on the air.
Anyway after deciding to ignore all the CB radio folklore I had
heard on the CB back in the 1970s and early 1980s, I learned the truth
about radio from reading the ARRL handbooks. I quickly became the
strongest CB station on the airways, and much of that was with self
taught radio know how.
A local ham noticed I was emerging from the CB pack as a potential
ham, and he started talking to me about ham radio. I aced the 5 wpm
Morse code test three weeks after listening to my first ARRL code
tape, and I don't even like Morse code. I aced all my exams, my 13
WPM code test, and now I am an Advanced class ham. When I passed my
Advanced written test a bunch old timers circled around the VE
examiners desk looking for a mistake on my test, but there was none to
be found. I made a perfect score, and out of all my test I only missed
one question.
One of the reasons I have not taken the Extra test is because the
old timers spit on the new no code Extra. I'm proud of my Advanced
class license, and I would not take kindly to an old timer spitting on
me if I had the new no code Extra.
In the past I used older equipment because I could not afford
anything else. Now I can afford the best, but I find myself poking
around in the old tube types and tube hybrids, because I don't know if
I can service the new surface mount technology stuff. If all I could
do was talk on the radio that would take all the fun out of it for me.
I think the best compliment I ever received on the ham bands was
when an old timer listened to all the things I was building and doing
and he said; "You are a true ham". That phrase from an old timer
meant more to me than any signal report or any DX contact. I am a
true ham, and I started on the CB band back in the 1970s just like
most other hams my age. I am not ashamed of my CB heritage. The
truth is I had a blast on the CB band back then.

Michael Rawls
KS4HY

Michael:

Thanks for your post. (A real "BLAST-FROM-THE-PAST!")

Back in the 70's, on CB, some of the best radio years of my whole life
where there... I miss them... (there was a "rubber duck" under every
rock--we still got "mud ducks" though :)

Amateur radio has changed too, the bands are not as interesting... the
personalities stagnant and without humor, without fun, without excitement,
without youngsters, without harmless pranks, without mystery. Bunch of
old guys attempting to play "James Bond", "secret agent" and attempting
more structure to communication than the NSA uses! :(

I hope-against-hope the good old days of radio will return, but, I would
like it to do so on new technology... some of us which remember the old
CB days (days when even, good, hams had cb rigs!--or, we made do with 10
meter equip. grin) are on ch. 38-39 LSB (27.385, 27.395) in the central
valley of calif, we are a stagnant number, be nice to have the company.
Lot of mobiles so they escape the harassment of hams still waging the
"old war." If you mention your call, be prepared to take some kidding...

If you ever get an opportunity--come join us! Real CB still lives in
isolated pockets!

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 22:18:30 +0000, Trying to be a real ham! wrote:

On 12 Aug 2005 12:34:33 -0700, "Polymath"
wrote:

they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist...

Actually it was CB band competition between a friend and I combined
with my desire to understand radio that turned me in to a ham. When I
was back in school my friend and I started trying to see who could put
out the strongest signal. His father bought him an amplifier to get
over me. I was not going to ask my parents for an amplifier, and I
did not have any money to buy one since I was a full time student. I
had heard the phrase "Knowledge is power", so I decided if I could not
buy a bigger amp to get over my friend I would have to out smart him
with brain power.
I went to the school library and started reading radio handbooks
like Bill Orr's handbook. When a radio repair tech at the local ham
store realized I truly wanted to learn the science of radio he gave me
a copy of the 1983 ARRL handbook for free (it was 1984 at the time).
I read that book until it fell apart. Then I bought another ARRL
radio book, and then another radio book, and then another radio book.
I'm still doing that all these years later. The radios I talk on (a
Tempo 2020, Drake 4 B line twins, Yaesu FT-101ee, and a Midland 79-892
40 channel sideband CB) were all someone else's broken door stop. None
of them worked when I bought them. I repaired them all, and I made
most of my antennas. When I talk on those old radios part of me
smiles, because I know the only reason those radios are still working
is because I put them back on the air.
Anyway after deciding to ignore all the CB radio folklore I had
heard on the CB back in the 1970s and early 1980s, I learned the truth
about radio from reading the ARRL handbooks. I quickly became the
strongest CB station on the airways, and much of that was with self
taught radio know how.
A local ham noticed I was emerging from the CB pack as a potential
ham, and he started talking to me about ham radio. I aced the 5 wpm
Morse code test three weeks after listening to my first ARRL code
tape, and I don't even like Morse code. I aced all my exams, my 13
WPM code test, and now I am an Advanced class ham. When I passed my
Advanced written test a bunch old timers circled around the VE
examiners desk looking for a mistake on my test, but there was none to
be found. I made a perfect score, and out of all my test I only missed
one question.
One of the reasons I have not taken the Extra test is because the
old timers spit on the new no code Extra. I'm proud of my Advanced
class license, and I would not take kindly to an old timer spitting on
me if I had the new no code Extra.
In the past I used older equipment because I could not afford
anything else. Now I can afford the best, but I find myself poking
around in the old tube types and tube hybrids, because I don't know if
I can service the new surface mount technology stuff. If all I could
do was talk on the radio that would take all the fun out of it for me.
I think the best compliment I ever received on the ham bands was
when an old timer listened to all the things I was building and doing
and he said; "You are a true ham". That phrase from an old timer
meant more to me than any signal report or any DX contact. I am a
true ham, and I started on the CB band back in the 1970s just like
most other hams my age. I am not ashamed of my CB heritage. The
truth is I had a blast on the CB band back then.

Michael Rawls
KS4HY

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

I hope-against-hope the good old days of radio will return, but, I would
like it to do so on new technology... some of us which remember the old
CB days (days when even, good, hams had cb rigs!--or, we made do with 10
meter equip. grin) are on ch. 38-39 LSB (27.385, 27.395) in the central
valley of calif, we are a stagnant number, be nice to have the company.
Lot of mobiles so they escape the harassment of hams still waging the
"old war." If you mention your call, be prepared to take some kidding...

If you ever get an opportunity--come join us! Real CB still lives in
isolated pockets!

John

You ever get on 40 m John? Often on Sunday evenings around 7168 +/-.

73,

Frank

PS I thought this was a Brit N.G.

Dee:

You know you have won a soft-spot in my heart now, and I always wanna
"take-the-gloves-off" when replying to your posts, and I would, except you
would take it as an insult and never forgive me...

Yes, there are people like that in the world. Indeed, the top of the
bell-curve are those with an IQ of 100-110 (barely intelligent enough not
to drool on their work.) If your company/corp is interning them, you
really should look for a position elsewhere, but you knew that...

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:04:16 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Sneaky Frank:

I often listen to "Bell's Bunch" on 3.840, once in a great while--bore
them with comment or two of mine (I make fun of AB and Wayne Greene--but
kinda like 'em both. grin) I just punched ~7168 into memory of the rig
and will take a peek...

I think you can tell, I am an easy mark, if the conversation is
provocative, interesting and civilized... maybe... that is hard to find
today, yanno, good conversation...

Thank you for the invitation, I am honored to be asked...

John

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:58:12 +0000, Frank wrote:

I hope-against-hope the good old days of radio will return, but, I would
like it to do so on new technology... some of us which remember the old
CB days (days when even, good, hams had cb rigs!--or, we made do with 10
meter equip. grin) are on ch. 38-39 LSB (27.385, 27.395) in the central
valley of calif, we are a stagnant number, be nice to have the company.
Lot of mobiles so they escape the harassment of hams still waging the
"old war." If you mention your call, be prepared to take some kidding...

If you ever get an opportunity--come join us! Real CB still lives in
isolated pockets!

John

You ever get on 40 m John? Often on Sunday evenings around 7168 +/-.

73,

Frank

PS I thought this was a Brit N.G.

The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now
they just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in
programming. Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to
the shop for upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their
own hardware upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and
the "old farts" that you seem to despise so.
===========================
From the above comments it is clear that the writer has no idea what's going
on in the Linux World ; with its many volunteer developers /testers , many
being from the younger generation . Ever been to a Linux or Robotics or
Hackers Fest ?

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:14:52 -0700, John Smith wrote:

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few.

You don't need the internet for that; practically any
butcher's shop will do. (Jewish and Muslim ones excepted).

73 de Jock.
--

If the Yank religious nuts believe in
intelligent creation, why George W. Bush?

Ok John, most of my ham friends are in Southern CA, and some are mobile, so
it is a heck of a struggle to copy them at times on 40 m. It would be nice
to receive a good signal up here in Calgary. My antenna is just a low
dipole, with 1.5kW, and they all seem to hear me just fine. Guess you mean
Art Bell. Have not heard him (or Wayne Green -- is he in CA?) on 75, but
have heard his splatter on 40m.

Our sked is kind of tentative, and sometimes nobody shows up. I am usually
around from about 7PM Pacific time.

73,

Frank


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Sneaky Frank:

I often listen to "Bell's Bunch" on 3.840, once in a great while--bore
them with comment or two of mine (I make fun of AB and Wayne Greene--but
kinda like 'em both. grin) I just punched ~7168 into memory of the rig
and will take a peek...

I think you can tell, I am an easy mark, if the conversation is
provocative, interesting and civilized... maybe... that is hard to find
today, yanno, good conversation...

Thank you for the invitation, I am honored to be asked...

John

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:58:12 +0000, Frank wrote:

I hope-against-hope the good old days of radio will return, but, I would
like it to do so on new technology... some of us which remember the old
CB days (days when even, good, hams had cb rigs!--or, we made do with 10
meter equip. grin) are on ch. 38-39 LSB (27.385, 27.395) in the
central
valley of calif, we are a stagnant number, be nice to have the company.
Lot of mobiles so they escape the harassment of hams still waging the
"old war." If you mention your call, be prepared to take some
kidding...

If you ever get an opportunity--come join us! Real CB still lives in
isolated pockets!

John

You ever get on 40 m John? Often on Sunday evenings around 7168 +/-.

73,

Frank

PS I thought this was a Brit N.G.

"Highland Ham" wrote in message
...
The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now
they just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in
programming. Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers
to the shop for upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing
their own hardware upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle
aged and the "old farts" that you seem to despise so.
===========================
From the above comments it is clear that the writer has no idea what's
going on in the Linux World ; with its many volunteer developers /testers
, many being from the younger generation . Ever been to a Linux or
Robotics or Hackers Fest ?

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH


A. They don't have those fests here

B. Didn't say no one is doing these things just that their heyday has come
and gone.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Bravo Chuck. Right on!

Harry C.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Bravo Chuck. Right on!

Harry C.


Oh...now *that* has my curiosity up... ;)

Kim W5TIT

Chuck:

You ask me if I ever put ham gear together from old radios, tv's and army
surplus equip., Yes, gobs... my uncle had a chain of army surplus stores.
Most of that equip you just took to the air...

But, born right around 1950, I got in on the tail end of tubes. In the
late 60's we were already attempting to run transistors with
multi-parallel-push-pull circuits to get higher outputs on low HF. The
70's provided some decent high power transistors, in the 70's seen a
lot of hybrid equip (tube/transistor), in the 80's-90's mainly
transistors, even multi-KW linears designed around transistors.

Now I awaiting the next generation equip., you see it in commercial and
industrial use, but very rarely in amateur shacks.

Now I play with single chip wide band oscillators... buffers, amps and
finals in personal experiments, all transistor. The tube, except for
greater than 2KW linears/transmitters is pretty much dead... most new
homebrew amps I see are using the russian tubes, cheap if you get the
right source... but the filament draw on those big amps can heat a shack!

Just look at the number of hams still running the old tube equip. henry
2KW linears, drakes, heathkits, hallicrafters, gonset, johnson, etc....
although a lot of it is still in use, it isn't built anymore... some hams
just haven't adapted to building with transistors... don't ask me why...

What does spark-gap transmitters, crystal radios, regenerative, TRF, etc
have to do with today? Collectors items? Junk sold at hamfests?

Most high power stuff is custom made mosfet, or commercial adapted to
amateur use--if you are into homebrew...

John

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:22:02 -0700, Chuck Olson wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Most of that is fictional... lots of "could have", "should have", "would
have" which it suggests though...

Computer related hardware/software is where all of the engineers are
coming from today.

John

I guess you never put together a crystal set or a 1-tube radio, or designed
your own VFO-controlled transmitter. I did, and from those days in 7th
grade, I knew what I was going to do the rest of my life. By sophomore year
in high school I learned to send and receive Morse Code at 15 WPM so I could
be sure to meet the 13WPM requirement for my Ham license. At 21, my
Engineering education was interrupted by the draft, and I joined the Navy to
become an Electronics Technician and service radar and communications
equipment for 4 years. Resuming my education, I became an Electrical
Engineer and worked in industry for the next 38 years, continuously learning
new things as they became current technology. I was never laid off or a
victim of "reduction in force" through that entire career - - because I was
a "natural" and kept my skills up to meet the needs of my employer. Ham
radio is an excellent start for anyone who has a curiosity and fascination
about electronics, be it represented by radio communications or computers or
industrial control technology.

I was inspired by Polymath's description of the good effects of ham radio on
its devotees. He should be congratulated on his explanation - - a very
readable and true to life presentation.

73, Chuck W6PKP

Dee Flint wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Absolutely. 25 or 30 years ago it was true. Then I could ask an exam question
which required writing an ISR in assembly, or even object.

Now, forget it! Such questions would never be allowed because the students
wouldn't understand the question.

My grandkids live for the computer. the blackberry, cellphone and their gadgets,
but have no idea what goes on behind the screen, despite the fact that their
mother is a specialist in advanced secure systems. The kid who used to cut my
grass thinks he is a programmer because he can copy a script from the internet -
but say things like "object", "hex", "bus" and this teenage expert looks at me
llike I have one eye in the middle of my forehead.

If I want to talk to people who build hardware, write efficient imaginative
software, and can actually do hex math I go to the QCWA breakfast; where someone
always has a new piece of homebrew microwave hardware or some neat little Unix
trick to show off.

The last QCWA convention I attended had fascinating discussions on cell phone
hacking, unix programming, software defined radio along with the old standards
of antennas, propagation, etc.

Yes, I'm an old fart who can hand key 25wpm (but doesn't anymmore because e-mail
is easier, not faster), use the net, write assembly programs and even use a
soldering iron. I even have some idea how the telephone system works and made
phone calls from my HT before the cell phone was invented. And I certainly do
not rank myself anywhere near the experimenters and explorers in Ham Radio; I'm
not that talented.

Dave
VE3HLU

Dave:

No one is denying you the right to your religion of "amateur worship", we
all need some high power to look up to. But, you must realize you are in
a church which has a very small following (mostly other hams, and NOT all
of them!)

Fact is, the computer is a TV with a tv card inserted--a stereo system
with a high quality audio card, tuner card inserted--a cd music player
with cd and proper software--a dvd player with a dvd-cd and proper
software--a home security system with the proper card and related software
and backup-power supply--and soon to be an amateur rig with proper
receiver card and xmitter card (some are already there!)

Fact is, the computer IS amateurs future--like it or not... only reason
the future is not here right now, old amateurs can't adapt and die
first... and serve as a hindrance to the new minds bringing the future
with them...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:20:06 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:



Dee Flint wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Absolutely. 25 or 30 years ago it was true. Then I could ask an exam question
which required writing an ISR in assembly, or even object.

Now, forget it! Such questions would never be allowed because the students
wouldn't understand the question.

My grandkids live for the computer. the blackberry, cellphone and their gadgets,
but have no idea what goes on behind the screen, despite the fact that their
mother is a specialist in advanced secure systems. The kid who used to cut my
grass thinks he is a programmer because he can copy a script from the internet -
but say things like "object", "hex", "bus" and this teenage expert looks at me
llike I have one eye in the middle of my forehead.

If I want to talk to people who build hardware, write efficient imaginative
software, and can actually do hex math I go to the QCWA breakfast; where someone
always has a new piece of homebrew microwave hardware or some neat little Unix
trick to show off.

The last QCWA convention I attended had fascinating discussions on cell phone
hacking, unix programming, software defined radio along with the old standards
of antennas, propagation, etc.

Yes, I'm an old fart who can hand key 25wpm (but doesn't anymmore because e-mail
is easier, not faster), use the net, write assembly programs and even use a
soldering iron. I even have some idea how the telephone system works and made
phone calls from my HT before the cell phone was invented. And I certainly do
not rank myself anywhere near the experimenters and explorers in Ham Radio; I'm
not that talented.

Dave
VE3HLU

some hams
just haven't adapted to building with transistors... don't ask me
why...

=============================

For one thing, with advancing years, eyesight deteriorates.
---
Reg.

Reg:

LOL!!!

Good to see you... well, that is how it looks from here... but, I imagine
it might differ even in other states...

You sure it isn't the same across the pond?

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:16:22 +0000, Reg Edwards wrote:

some hams
just haven't adapted to building with transistors... don't ask me
why...

=============================

For one thing, with advancing years, eyesight deteriorates.
---
Reg.

Seems to me FCC Rules and Regs Part 97 defines it quite well

--
CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !

.... define what? And, how in relation to what we are discussing?

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:16:46 -0700, Caveat Lector wrote:

Seems to me FCC Rules and Regs Part 97 defines it quite well

(Apologies to the top posting hater community, but I decided to follow John's lead).

Got the wrong guy John.

I've been using most of that stuff for quite a while, and I could point you to a dozen
or so hams well over the age of 70 who not only use it; they understand how it works
and some even tinker with the hardware and software.

I'm not quite that old yet, but it ain't always that easy to keep up with some of them
when they discuss their latest project.

About a quarter of a century ago, I was teaching a system using a synthesized HF
sideband transceiver, on a single PCB about 2 or 3 inches square, running from about 7
to 10MHz and digitally controlled either locally or remotely (up to 100 transceivers
controlled from a DEC minicomputer) - would love to have slipped one in my shirt
pocket, taken it home and added a linear! Funnily enough most of the guys I was
working with have decided to become hams within the last 10 or 15 years.

The HF receiver card in one of my PCs gets far more use than my stand-alone
transceivers with the DSP etc. the card is much more versatile - more modes,
bandwidths etc. etc.. Software defined is the way to go.

But, and it is a fair sized but, I find I can have much more detailed and interesting
discussions of this technology with older rather than younger folks. I find (just my
experience and maybe the folks I choose to hang out with) that the younger generation
tend to be users who know no more about how it works than my granny knew about how her
telephone worked. But boy can they use it!

My generation understood it down to the electron level.
My kids understood it down to the IC level.
My grand kids (teenagers - with a few exceptions) know how to use it but don't
understand, or really care, how it works.

Can't blame them, it's progress. The systems have become so complex that one pretty
much has to specialize and folks with a general knowledge of hardware and software,
theory and practice of entire systems are becoming a vanishing breed. That is true of
much more than communications technology - the guy at the corner gas station probably
can't fix your anti-skid braking system any more than the local pharmacy can sell you
the part to fix your TV any more.

Dave
Sitting at his computer listening to an HF net on his software defined radio running
on the same processor.


John Smith wrote:

Dave:

No one is denying you the right to your religion of "amateur worship", we
all need some high power to look up to. But, you must realize you are in
a church which has a very small following (mostly other hams, and NOT all
of them!)

Fact is, the computer is a TV with a tv card inserted--a stereo system
with a high quality audio card, tuner card inserted--a cd music player
with cd and proper software--a dvd player with a dvd-cd and proper
software--a home security system with the proper card and related software
and backup-power supply--and soon to be an amateur rig with proper
receiver card and xmitter card (some are already there!)

Fact is, the computer IS amateurs future--like it or not... only reason
the future is not here right now, old amateurs can't adapt and die
first... and serve as a hindrance to the new minds bringing the future
with them...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:20:06 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:



Dee Flint wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Absolutely. 25 or 30 years ago it was true. Then I could ask an exam question
which required writing an ISR in assembly, or even object.

Now, forget it! Such questions would never be allowed because the students
wouldn't understand the question.

My grandkids live for the computer. the blackberry, cellphone and their gadgets,
but have no idea what goes on behind the screen, despite the fact that their
mother is a specialist in advanced secure systems. The kid who used to cut my
grass thinks he is a programmer because he can copy a script from the internet -
but say things like "object", "hex", "bus" and this teenage expert looks at me
llike I have one eye in the middle of my forehead.

If I want to talk to people who build hardware, write efficient imaginative
software, and can actually do hex math I go to the QCWA breakfast; where someone
always has a new piece of homebrew microwave hardware or some neat little Unix
trick to show off.

The last QCWA convention I attended had fascinating discussions on cell phone
hacking, unix programming, software defined radio along with the old standards
of antennas, propagation, etc.

Yes, I'm an old fart who can hand key 25wpm (but doesn't anymmore because e-mail
is easier, not faster), use the net, write assembly programs and even use a
soldering iron. I even have some idea how the telephone system works and made
phone calls from my HT before the cell phone was invented. And I certainly do
not rank myself anywhere near the experimenters and explorers in Ham Radio; I'm
not that talented.

Dave
VE3HLU

Dave:

Interesting, when I have exchanged station pics, I have never seen the new
equip, other than my own...

When I exchange equip descriptions, everyone is mentioning drake, henry,
heathkit, etc... frankly, last months maybe a year--I gave up paying close
attention... in fact, my xmitter pci card is a proto-type which an
engineer made a gift of to me when I worked on some software to support
it (they will actually market a USB model.) Last time I chatted with him,
it was still sitting on his companies "back shelf" waiting for the market
to develop... they strongly support dropping CW and expect an influx of
new hams which they feel will accept the equipment and make profitable the
sales. In the meantime they market to police, fire, hospitals, gov't...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:55:15 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:

(Apologies to the top posting hater community, but I decided to follow John's lead).

Got the wrong guy John.

I've been using most of that stuff for quite a while, and I could point you to a dozen
or so hams well over the age of 70 who not only use it; they understand how it works
and some even tinker with the hardware and software.

I'm not quite that old yet, but it ain't always that easy to keep up with some of them
when they discuss their latest project.

About a quarter of a century ago, I was teaching a system using a synthesized HF
sideband transceiver, on a single PCB about 2 or 3 inches square, running from about 7
to 10MHz and digitally controlled either locally or remotely (up to 100 transceivers
controlled from a DEC minicomputer) - would love to have slipped one in my shirt
pocket, taken it home and added a linear! Funnily enough most of the guys I was
working with have decided to become hams within the last 10 or 15 years.

The HF receiver card in one of my PCs gets far more use than my stand-alone
transceivers with the DSP etc. the card is much more versatile - more modes,
bandwidths etc. etc.. Software defined is the way to go.

But, and it is a fair sized but, I find I can have much more detailed and interesting
discussions of this technology with older rather than younger folks. I find (just my
experience and maybe the folks I choose to hang out with) that the younger generation
tend to be users who know no more about how it works than my granny knew about how her
telephone worked. But boy can they use it!

My generation understood it down to the electron level.
My kids understood it down to the IC level.
My grand kids (teenagers - with a few exceptions) know how to use it but don't
understand, or really care, how it works.

Can't blame them, it's progress. The systems have become so complex that one pretty
much has to specialize and folks with a general knowledge of hardware and software,
theory and practice of entire systems are becoming a vanishing breed. That is true of
much more than communications technology - the guy at the corner gas station probably
can't fix your anti-skid braking system any more than the local pharmacy can sell you
the part to fix your TV any more.

Dave
Sitting at his computer listening to an HF net on his software defined radio running
on the same processor.


John Smith wrote:

Dave:

No one is denying you the right to your religion of "amateur worship", we
all need some high power to look up to. But, you must realize you are in
a church which has a very small following (mostly other hams, and NOT all
of them!)

Fact is, the computer is a TV with a tv card inserted--a stereo system
with a high quality audio card, tuner card inserted--a cd music player
with cd and proper software--a dvd player with a dvd-cd and proper
software--a home security system with the proper card and related software
and backup-power supply--and soon to be an amateur rig with proper
receiver card and xmitter card (some are already there!)

Fact is, the computer IS amateurs future--like it or not... only reason
the future is not here right now, old amateurs can't adapt and die
first... and serve as a hindrance to the new minds bringing the future
with them...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:20:06 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:



Dee Flint wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Absolutely. 25 or 30 years ago it was true. Then I could ask an exam question
which required writing an ISR in assembly, or even object.

Now, forget it! Such questions would never be allowed because the students
wouldn't understand the question.

My grandkids live for the computer. the blackberry, cellphone and their gadgets,
but have no idea what goes on behind the screen, despite the fact that their
mother is a specialist in advanced secure systems. The kid who used to cut my
grass thinks he is a programmer because he can copy a script from the internet -
but say things like "object", "hex", "bus" and this teenage expert looks at me
llike I have one eye in the middle of my forehead.

If I want to talk to people who build hardware, write efficient imaginative
software, and can actually do hex math I go to the QCWA breakfast; where someone
always has a new piece of homebrew microwave hardware or some neat little Unix
trick to show off.

The last QCWA convention I attended had fascinating discussions on cell phone
hacking, unix programming, software defined radio along with the old standards
of antennas, propagation, etc.

Yes, I'm an old fart who can hand key 25wpm (but doesn't anymmore because e-mail
is easier, not faster), use the net, write assembly programs and even use a
soldering iron. I even have some idea how the telephone system works and made
phone calls from my HT before the cell phone was invented. And I certainly do
not rank myself anywhere near the experimenters and explorers in Ham Radio; I'm
not that talented.

Dave
VE3HLU

Fascinating, I don't know who you talk to but I can only think of a couple of people I know
using Drake stuff, and then only as collectors items or though nostalgia. Can't remember the
last time I heard someone mention Henry, except in an inductor value, and one of the few
pictures of Heathkit equipment I have seen in a long time was in a magazine on antique
equipment a (younger) friend showed me a couple of weeks ago.

I have a real hard time believing that the long overdue dropping of CW will result in much
of an influx to HF. If they were interested in HF they would already be here.

I've had a two hour HF swap shop running in the background and I don't think I heard
anything that old being offered for sale or looked for except for a couple of antique RCA,
Hammarlund and National receivers, but they were in the antiques listing. Plenty of DSP rigs
and digital stuff, a few people looking for specialized digital ICs. It is quite common to
hear current generation equipment being sold by very elderly hams due to deteriorating
health and/or moving into nursing homes or apartments where they must give up the hobby.

I'm having coffee with an 81 year old tomorrow and he has a DSP HF rig; and a software
defined receiver running on his backup PC, which he also uses to watch TV and movies. He
usually has at least one PC in pieces as he reconfigures it and has been inside his ICOM and
Kenwood HF rigs with a soldering iron more than once, although as his age creeps up he is
reducing those activities somewhat. He will probably want to discuss optimizing the data
base for his SDR receiver.

Not every ham over 40 is using a hand key to a crystal controlled 6L6.

Dave


John Smith wrote:

Dave:

Interesting, when I have exchanged station pics, I have never seen the new
equip, other than my own...

When I exchange equip descriptions, everyone is mentioning drake, henry,
heathkit, etc... frankly, last months maybe a year--I gave up paying close
attention... in fact, my xmitter pci card is a proto-type which an
engineer made a gift of to me when I worked on some software to support
it (they will actually market a USB model.) Last time I chatted with him,
it was still sitting on his companies "back shelf" waiting for the market
to develop... they strongly support dropping CW and expect an influx of
new hams which they feel will accept the equipment and make profitable the
sales. In the meantime they market to police, fire, hospitals, gov't...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:55:15 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:

(Apologies to the top posting hater community, but I decided to follow John's lead).

Got the wrong guy John.

I've been using most of that stuff for quite a while, and I could point you to a dozen
or so hams well over the age of 70 who not only use it; they understand how it works
and some even tinker with the hardware and software.

I'm not quite that old yet, but it ain't always that easy to keep up with some of them
when they discuss their latest project.

About a quarter of a century ago, I was teaching a system using a synthesized HF
sideband transceiver, on a single PCB about 2 or 3 inches square, running from about 7
to 10MHz and digitally controlled either locally or remotely (up to 100 transceivers
controlled from a DEC minicomputer) - would love to have slipped one in my shirt
pocket, taken it home and added a linear! Funnily enough most of the guys I was
working with have decided to become hams within the last 10 or 15 years.

The HF receiver card in one of my PCs gets far more use than my stand-alone
transceivers with the DSP etc. the card is much more versatile - more modes,
bandwidths etc. etc.. Software defined is the way to go.

But, and it is a fair sized but, I find I can have much more detailed and interesting
discussions of this technology with older rather than younger folks. I find (just my
experience and maybe the folks I choose to hang out with) that the younger generation
tend to be users who know no more about how it works than my granny knew about how her
telephone worked. But boy can they use it!

My generation understood it down to the electron level.
My kids understood it down to the IC level.
My grand kids (teenagers - with a few exceptions) know how to use it but don't
understand, or really care, how it works.

Can't blame them, it's progress. The systems have become so complex that one pretty
much has to specialize and folks with a general knowledge of hardware and software,
theory and practice of entire systems are becoming a vanishing breed. That is true of
much more than communications technology - the guy at the corner gas station probably
can't fix your anti-skid braking system any more than the local pharmacy can sell you
the part to fix your TV any more.

Dave
Sitting at his computer listening to an HF net on his software defined radio running
on the same processor.


John Smith wrote:

Dave:

No one is denying you the right to your religion of "amateur worship", we
all need some high power to look up to. But, you must realize you are in
a church which has a very small following (mostly other hams, and NOT all
of them!)

Fact is, the computer is a TV with a tv card inserted--a stereo system
with a high quality audio card, tuner card inserted--a cd music player
with cd and proper software--a dvd player with a dvd-cd and proper
software--a home security system with the proper card and related software
and backup-power supply--and soon to be an amateur rig with proper
receiver card and xmitter card (some are already there!)

Fact is, the computer IS amateurs future--like it or not... only reason
the future is not here right now, old amateurs can't adapt and die
first... and serve as a hindrance to the new minds bringing the future
with them...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:20:06 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:



Dee Flint wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Absolutely. 25 or 30 years ago it was true. Then I could ask an exam question
which required writing an ISR in assembly, or even object.

Now, forget it! Such questions would never be allowed because the students
wouldn't understand the question.

My grandkids live for the computer. the blackberry, cellphone and their gadgets,
but have no idea what goes on behind the screen, despite the fact that their
mother is a specialist in advanced secure systems. The kid who used to cut my
grass thinks he is a programmer because he can copy a script from the internet -
but say things like "object", "hex", "bus" and this teenage expert looks at me
llike I have one eye in the middle of my forehead.

If I want to talk to people who build hardware, write efficient imaginative
software, and can actually do hex math I go to the QCWA breakfast; where someone
always has a new piece of homebrew microwave hardware or some neat little Unix
trick to show off.

The last QCWA convention I attended had fascinating discussions on cell phone
hacking, unix programming, software defined radio along with the old standards
of antennas, propagation, etc.

Yes, I'm an old fart who can hand key 25wpm (but doesn't anymmore because e-mail
is easier, not faster), use the net, write assembly programs and even use a
soldering iron. I even have some idea how the telephone system works and made
phone calls from my HT before the cell phone was invented. And I certainly do
not rank myself anywhere near the experimenters and explorers in Ham Radio; I'm
not that talented.

Dave
VE3HLU

Dave:

Interesting, I expect the posts on rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,
rec.radio.amateur.equipment, rec.radio.amateur.swap to change to
reflect that any day now!

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:19:18 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:

Fascinating, I don't know who you talk to but I can only think of a couple of people I know
using Drake stuff, and then only as collectors items or though nostalgia. Can't remember the
last time I heard someone mention Henry, except in an inductor value, and one of the few
pictures of Heathkit equipment I have seen in a long time was in a magazine on antique
equipment a (younger) friend showed me a couple of weeks ago.

I have a real hard time believing that the long overdue dropping of CW will result in much
of an influx to HF. If they were interested in HF they would already be here.

I've had a two hour HF swap shop running in the background and I don't think I heard
anything that old being offered for sale or looked for except for a couple of antique RCA,
Hammarlund and National receivers, but they were in the antiques listing. Plenty of DSP rigs
and digital stuff, a few people looking for specialized digital ICs. It is quite common to
hear current generation equipment being sold by very elderly hams due to deteriorating
health and/or moving into nursing homes or apartments where they must give up the hobby.

I'm having coffee with an 81 year old tomorrow and he has a DSP HF rig; and a software
defined receiver running on his backup PC, which he also uses to watch TV and movies. He
usually has at least one PC in pieces as he reconfigures it and has been inside his ICOM and
Kenwood HF rigs with a soldering iron more than once, although as his age creeps up he is
reducing those activities somewhat. He will probably want to discuss optimizing the data
base for his SDR receiver.

Not every ham over 40 is using a hand key to a crystal controlled 6L6.

Dave


John Smith wrote:

Dave:

Interesting, when I have exchanged station pics, I have never seen the new
equip, other than my own...

When I exchange equip descriptions, everyone is mentioning drake, henry,
heathkit, etc... frankly, last months maybe a year--I gave up paying close
attention... in fact, my xmitter pci card is a proto-type which an
engineer made a gift of to me when I worked on some software to support
it (they will actually market a USB model.) Last time I chatted with him,
it was still sitting on his companies "back shelf" waiting for the market
to develop... they strongly support dropping CW and expect an influx of
new hams which they feel will accept the equipment and make profitable the
sales. In the meantime they market to police, fire, hospitals, gov't...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:55:15 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:

(Apologies to the top posting hater community, but I decided to follow John's lead).

Got the wrong guy John.

I've been using most of that stuff for quite a while, and I could point you to a dozen
or so hams well over the age of 70 who not only use it; they understand how it works
and some even tinker with the hardware and software.

I'm not quite that old yet, but it ain't always that easy to keep up with some of them
when they discuss their latest project.

About a quarter of a century ago, I was teaching a system using a synthesized HF
sideband transceiver, on a single PCB about 2 or 3 inches square, running from about 7
to 10MHz and digitally controlled either locally or remotely (up to 100 transceivers
controlled from a DEC minicomputer) - would love to have slipped one in my shirt
pocket, taken it home and added a linear! Funnily enough most of the guys I was
working with have decided to become hams within the last 10 or 15 years.

The HF receiver card in one of my PCs gets far more use than my stand-alone
transceivers with the DSP etc. the card is much more versatile - more modes,
bandwidths etc. etc.. Software defined is the way to go.

But, and it is a fair sized but, I find I can have much more detailed and interesting
discussions of this technology with older rather than younger folks. I find (just my
experience and maybe the folks I choose to hang out with) that the younger generation
tend to be users who know no more about how it works than my granny knew about how her
telephone worked. But boy can they use it!

My generation understood it down to the electron level.
My kids understood it down to the IC level.
My grand kids (teenagers - with a few exceptions) know how to use it but don't
understand, or really care, how it works.

Can't blame them, it's progress. The systems have become so complex that one pretty
much has to specialize and folks with a general knowledge of hardware and software,
theory and practice of entire systems are becoming a vanishing breed. That is true of
much more than communications technology - the guy at the corner gas station probably
can't fix your anti-skid braking system any more than the local pharmacy can sell you
the part to fix your TV any more.

Dave
Sitting at his computer listening to an HF net on his software defined radio running
on the same processor.


John Smith wrote:

Dave:

No one is denying you the right to your religion of "amateur worship", we
all need some high power to look up to. But, you must realize you are in
a church which has a very small following (mostly other hams, and NOT all
of them!)

Fact is, the computer is a TV with a tv card inserted--a stereo system
with a high quality audio card, tuner card inserted--a cd music player
with cd and proper software--a dvd player with a dvd-cd and proper
software--a home security system with the proper card and related software
and backup-power supply--and soon to be an amateur rig with proper
receiver card and xmitter card (some are already there!)

Fact is, the computer IS amateurs future--like it or not... only reason
the future is not here right now, old amateurs can't adapt and die
first... and serve as a hindrance to the new minds bringing the future
with them...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:20:06 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:



Dee Flint wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Absolutely. 25 or 30 years ago it was true. Then I could ask an exam question
which required writing an ISR in assembly, or even object.

Now, forget it! Such questions would never be allowed because the students
wouldn't understand the question.

My grandkids live for the computer. the blackberry, cellphone and their gadgets,
but have no idea what goes on behind the screen, despite the fact that their
mother is a specialist in advanced secure systems. The kid who used to cut my
grass thinks he is a programmer because he can copy a script from the internet -
but say things like "object", "hex", "bus" and this teenage expert looks at me
llike I have one eye in the middle of my forehead.

If I want to talk to people who build hardware, write efficient imaginative
software, and can actually do hex math I go to the QCWA breakfast; where someone
always has a new piece of homebrew microwave hardware or some neat little Unix
trick to show off.

The last QCWA convention I attended had fascinating discussions on cell phone
hacking, unix programming, software defined radio along with the old standards
of antennas, propagation, etc.

Yes, I'm an old fart who can hand key 25wpm (but doesn't anymmore because e-mail
is easier, not faster), use the net, write assembly programs and even use a
soldering iron. I even have some idea how the telephone system works and made
phone calls from my HT before the cell phone was invented. And I certainly do
not rank myself anywhere near the experimenters and explorers in Ham Radio; I'm
not that talented.

Dave
VE3HLU

Dave Holford wrote:
Fascinating, I don't know who you talk to but I can only think of a couple of people I know
using Drake stuff, and then only as collectors items or though nostalgia. Can't remember the
last time I heard someone mention Henry, except in an inductor value, and one of the few
pictures of Heathkit equipment I have seen in a long time was in a magazine on antique
equipment a (younger) friend showed me a couple of weeks ago.

I have a real hard time believing that the long overdue dropping of CW will result in much
of an influx to HF. If they were interested in HF they would already be here.

I've had a two hour HF swap shop running in the background and I don't think I heard
anything that old being offered for sale or looked for except for a couple of antique RCA,
Hammarlund and National receivers, but they were in the antiques listing. Plenty of DSP rigs
and digital stuff, a few people looking for specialized digital ICs. It is quite common to
hear current generation equipment being sold by very elderly hams due to deteriorating
health and/or moving into nursing homes or apartments where they must give up the hobby.

I'm having coffee with an 81 year old tomorrow and he has a DSP HF rig; and a software
defined receiver running on his backup PC, which he also uses to watch TV and movies. He
usually has at least one PC in pieces as he reconfigures it and has been inside his ICOM and
Kenwood HF rigs with a soldering iron more than once, although as his age creeps up he is
reducing those activities somewhat. He will probably want to discuss optimizing the data
base for his SDR receiver.

Not every ham over 40 is using a hand key to a crystal controlled 6L6.

Do people have their 60th birthday, and suddenly become stupid or
something? I had a PSK31 QSO with a 96 y.o. Hams last year. He was
checking out his new laptop. Had a modern rig also. That's just one
case. There are plenty other oldsters I've QSO'ed with who are trourghly
modern.

- Mike KB3EIA -

John Smith wrote:


Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


Sure looks like this bunch of young folks just didn't leave and return
to the Internet.

http://www.k9ya.org/telegraph/2005/K9YA_1_2005.pdf

It's been fun, gotta go catch an airplane - one of those new ones with no propellor.

Dave

John Smith wrote:

Dave:

Interesting, I expect the posts on rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,
rec.radio.amateur.equipment, rec.radio.amateur.swap to change to
reflect that any day now!

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:19:18 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:

Fascinating, I don't know who you talk to but I can only think of a couple of people I know
using Drake stuff, and then only as collectors items or though nostalgia. Can't remember the
last time I heard someone mention Henry, except in an inductor value, and one of the few
pictures of Heathkit equipment I have seen in a long time was in a magazine on antique
equipment a (younger) friend showed me a couple of weeks ago.

I have a real hard time believing that the long overdue dropping of CW will result in much
of an influx to HF. If they were interested in HF they would already be here.

I've had a two hour HF swap shop running in the background and I don't think I heard
anything that old being offered for sale or looked for except for a couple of antique RCA,
Hammarlund and National receivers, but they were in the antiques listing. Plenty of DSP rigs
and digital stuff, a few people looking for specialized digital ICs. It is quite common to
hear current generation equipment being sold by very elderly hams due to deteriorating
health and/or moving into nursing homes or apartments where they must give up the hobby.

I'm having coffee with an 81 year old tomorrow and he has a DSP HF rig; and a software
defined receiver running on his backup PC, which he also uses to watch TV and movies. He
usually has at least one PC in pieces as he reconfigures it and has been inside his ICOM and
Kenwood HF rigs with a soldering iron more than once, although as his age creeps up he is
reducing those activities somewhat. He will probably want to discuss optimizing the data
base for his SDR receiver.

Not every ham over 40 is using a hand key to a crystal controlled 6L6.

Dave


John Smith wrote:

Dave:

Interesting, when I have exchanged station pics, I have never seen the new
equip, other than my own...

When I exchange equip descriptions, everyone is mentioning drake, henry,
heathkit, etc... frankly, last months maybe a year--I gave up paying close
attention... in fact, my xmitter pci card is a proto-type which an
engineer made a gift of to me when I worked on some software to support
it (they will actually market a USB model.) Last time I chatted with him,
it was still sitting on his companies "back shelf" waiting for the market
to develop... they strongly support dropping CW and expect an influx of
new hams which they feel will accept the equipment and make profitable the
sales. In the meantime they market to police, fire, hospitals, gov't...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:55:15 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:

(Apologies to the top posting hater community, but I decided to follow John's lead).

Got the wrong guy John.

I've been using most of that stuff for quite a while, and I could point you to a dozen
or so hams well over the age of 70 who not only use it; they understand how it works
and some even tinker with the hardware and software.

I'm not quite that old yet, but it ain't always that easy to keep up with some of them
when they discuss their latest project.

About a quarter of a century ago, I was teaching a system using a synthesized HF
sideband transceiver, on a single PCB about 2 or 3 inches square, running from about 7
to 10MHz and digitally controlled either locally or remotely (up to 100 transceivers
controlled from a DEC minicomputer) - would love to have slipped one in my shirt
pocket, taken it home and added a linear! Funnily enough most of the guys I was
working with have decided to become hams within the last 10 or 15 years.

The HF receiver card in one of my PCs gets far more use than my stand-alone
transceivers with the DSP etc. the card is much more versatile - more modes,
bandwidths etc. etc.. Software defined is the way to go.

But, and it is a fair sized but, I find I can have much more detailed and interesting
discussions of this technology with older rather than younger folks. I find (just my
experience and maybe the folks I choose to hang out with) that the younger generation
tend to be users who know no more about how it works than my granny knew about how her
telephone worked. But boy can they use it!

My generation understood it down to the electron level.
My kids understood it down to the IC level.
My grand kids (teenagers - with a few exceptions) know how to use it but don't
understand, or really care, how it works.

Can't blame them, it's progress. The systems have become so complex that one pretty
much has to specialize and folks with a general knowledge of hardware and software,
theory and practice of entire systems are becoming a vanishing breed. That is true of
much more than communications technology - the guy at the corner gas station probably
can't fix your anti-skid braking system any more than the local pharmacy can sell you
the part to fix your TV any more.

Dave
Sitting at his computer listening to an HF net on his software defined radio running
on the same processor.


John Smith wrote:

Dave:

No one is denying you the right to your religion of "amateur worship", we
all need some high power to look up to. But, you must realize you are in
a church which has a very small following (mostly other hams, and NOT all
of them!)

Fact is, the computer is a TV with a tv card inserted--a stereo system
with a high quality audio card, tuner card inserted--a cd music player
with cd and proper software--a dvd player with a dvd-cd and proper
software--a home security system with the proper card and related software
and backup-power supply--and soon to be an amateur rig with proper
receiver card and xmitter card (some are already there!)

Fact is, the computer IS amateurs future--like it or not... only reason
the future is not here right now, old amateurs can't adapt and die
first... and serve as a hindrance to the new minds bringing the future
with them...

John

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:20:06 -0400, Dave Holford wrote:



Dee Flint wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
PM:

Let me give a summary of the "real world."

If you were a child today, you would grow up with the computer.

In elementary school your first "pen pal" would be in a foreign country
and you would communicate with them via the internet. You would learn to
IM, IRC, EMAIL, MSN CHAT, YAHOO, WEB CAM, etc....

By high school you would be picking up a computer script and/or language
and at least have a basic knowledge of programming. Your first hardware
project would most likely be computer related.

Somewhere along this line, you bump into a ham or a few. You look at them
using their equipment, it is apparent the internet is superior. They lack
the ability to exchange pics, apps, music, videos, documents, etc. by
transmissions taking seconds or minutes. Then, they show you a CW key and
you are dumb struck, and leave. You return to the internet and current
technology, never to stray again... you begin a web site and consider
what position you would like in the computer field, when you grow up...

John


The days of kids being computer gurus have already come and gone. Now they
just play video games and chat. Very few get interested in programming.
Very few do a hardware project. They take their computers to the shop for
upgrades. They only people that I have observed doing their own hardware
upgrades, rebuilding computers, etc are the middle aged and the "old farts"
that you seem to despise so.

I spend countless hours teaching our interns how to use email, spreadsheets,
etc.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Absolutely. 25 or 30 years ago it was true. Then I could ask an exam question
which required writing an ISR in assembly, or even object.

Now, forget it! Such questions would never be allowed because the students
wouldn't understand the question.

My grandkids live for the computer. the blackberry, cellphone and their gadgets,
but have no idea what goes on behind the screen, despite the fact that their
mother is a specialist in advanced secure systems. The kid who used to cut my
grass thinks he is a programmer because he can copy a script from the internet -
but say things like "object", "hex", "bus" and this teenage expert looks at me
llike I have one eye in the middle of my forehead.

If I want to talk to people who build hardware, write efficient imaginative
software, and can actually do hex math I go to the QCWA breakfast; where someone
always has a new piece of homebrew microwave hardware or some neat little Unix
trick to show off.

The last QCWA convention I attended had fascinating discussions on cell phone
hacking, unix programming, software defined radio along with the old standards
of antennas, propagation, etc.

Yes, I'm an old fart who can hand key 25wpm (but doesn't anymmore because e-mail
is easier, not faster), use the net, write assembly programs and even use a
soldering iron. I even have some idea how the telephone system works and made
phone calls from my HT before the cell phone was invented. And I certainly do
not rank myself anywhere near the experimenters and explorers in Ham Radio; I'm
not that talented.

Dave
VE3HLU