Okay, I tried Dead Bug construtcion, and it seems it is absolutly wortheless for complicated circuits. Most the hams I see pushing this method are only using a couple components, try it with about 50, and see how well it works---NOT. I made two of my systems with it, and an amp, all are crappy!!

Frank

Frank wrote:
Frank Wrote:
I'm going to attempt to build one of my ghost receievers dead bug style.
The goal being to take something that I usually mount in an old PC case,
and fit it into a cigar box. I've never tried dead bug, or ugly
construction, but figure it should be the most spacerous mehtod, and I
cany use both side of a board for seperate functions.

As far as my ghost receivers, just remember those proclaiming
something is impossible are interupted by someone doing it. Believe
it or not, like it or not, the dead talk! This IS the next frontier in
electronics!

http://franksumption.tripod.com/

I still haven't quite gotten the LNM3820 to work the way I want it to.
It works on the bread board, but not on a PCB.

Frank


Okay, I tried Dead Bug construtcion, and it seems it is absolutly
wortheless for complicated circuits. Most the hams I see pushing this
method are only using a couple components, try it with about 50, and
see how well it works---NOT. I made two of my systems with it, and an
amp, all are crappy!!

I wouldn't even consider it for anything at all complex, although it
might not be too bad if you split the circuit into smaller modules
rather than trying to get everything on one board. I prefer what could
be called 'live bug' construction, with the chips the right way up. I
have a good home PCB process, so I tend to use that these days.

Perhaps the ghosts from your dead bugs are causing interference. 8-)

73, Leon

I just got a very good "homebrew" PCB process set up using gloss photo paper
printed in a laser printer ironed onto the board for the resist and muriatic
acid / hydrogen peroxide for the etchant. Is this the way you are making
boards?

Jim



I
have a good home PCB process, so I tend to use that these days.

Perhaps the ghosts from your dead bugs are causing interference. 8-)

73, Leon

RST Engineering wrote:
I just got a very good "homebrew" PCB process set up using gloss photo paper
printed in a laser printer ironed onto the board for the resist and muriatic
acid / hydrogen peroxide for the etchant. Is this the way you are making
boards?


No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on
an inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks.

Leon

Leon wrote:
No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on
an inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks.
=========================
Leon , How do you dispose of spent ferichloride?
Do you take it to the local Council waste yard ?

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Highland Ham wrote:
Leon wrote:
No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on
an inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks.
=========================
Leon , How do you dispose of spent ferichloride?
Do you take it to the local Council waste yard ?

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

I just flush it down the toilet. I think that ferric chloride is used
for water treatment and I can't see the small amount of copper doing
any harm by the time it has been diluted millions of times. It's only a
litre ot so every six months - it's negligible.

73, Leon

In article .com,
Leon wrote:

I just flush it down the toilet. I think that ferric chloride is used
for water treatment and I can't see the small amount of copper doing
any harm by the time it has been diluted millions of times. It's only a
litre ot so every six months - it's negligible.

By the time you dump it in this way, you aren't dumping pure ferric
chloride by any means! You're dumping a residual amount of ferric
chloride, plus a bunch of copper chloride.

The waste-treatment authorities in this area are very much against
having soluble copper dumped into the sewage system. The copper
eventually ends up in San Francisco Bay (after having caused some
amount of interference to the biological sewage-digestion/treatment
system). Multiplied by a large number of potential sources, the
copper load can have an injurious effect on the Bay ecosystem... it's
toxic to algae and to many other natural microorganisms.

This problem can be prevented, quite easily, by simply titrating some
sodium hydroxide (lye) or sodium carbonate (washing soda, soda ash)
into the exhausted etchant. It may bubble a bit, with the bubbling
ceasing as the pH rises to the point of being mildly alkaline (pH of 7
to 8... use pH paper to monitor). The copper remaining in the
solution will precipitate out as an insoluble solid. Allow it to
settle and pour off the remaining liquid... MG says that the liquid
can now be poured down the toilet safely. The solid (copper hydroxide
or copper carbonate, I believe) should be disposed of according to
local requirements.

I've used the same precipitate-with-soda-ash trick when using sodium
monopersulphate as an etchant (it's surely work with the somewhat
faster-acting ammonium persulphate). It's quite striking in this
case... the clear blue-green copper-loaded etchant turns a milky
green, the precipitate settles out, and you're left with a clear
near-colorless liquid which contains little or no copper.

I've heard of people disposing of copper-loaded used etchant by mixing
in some Portland cement powder. This raises the pH, converts the
copper to an insoluble form, and then binds it into (in effect) solid
rock which can be disposed of in a landfill without causing
significant leaching of copper. The same trick could no doubt be used
to solidify the precipitated copper from a lye or soda-ash
neutralization of spent etchant.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:28:45 -0700, Leon wrote:

No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on an
inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks.

Leon

Do you use the inkjet to print directly on transparent film? Is the
contrast/opacity good enough or do you need to stack two or more sheets?

I use a laser printer and OHP film. Even with the toner density set to
maximum, I find I need to use two sheets of film for best results.

73, Ed. EI9GQ.


--
Linux 2.6.16
Remove 'X' to reply by e-mail.
Yes, my username really is: nospam

On Sat, 27 May 2006 09:39:04 -0700, "RST Engineering"
wrote:

I just got a very good "homebrew" PCB process set up using gloss photo paper
printed in a laser printer ironed onto the board for the resist and muriatic
acid / hydrogen peroxide for the etchant. Is this the way you are making
boards?

Jim

Hello Jim

I use a similar setup to make boards all the time and it works
reasonably well. No 8mil tracks tho. I just discovered some paper and
haven't tried to see how small I can make the traces yet. I've been
pretty sick for a few months and just haven't felt like messing with
it. The one board I did make using it had much sharper defined edges
and the drill guide holes etched nicely also with no residue left on
the board. I never did find any photo paper that didn't leave the
residue that needed cleaned off especially in the 25mil drill guide
holes. The paper is made by Pulsar and is Digi-Key P/N 182-1003-ND. If
you want to try it get the "GreenTRF" film to go with it, P/N
182-1021-ND. The GreenTRF film is just applied over the toner after it
is transfered from the paper and leaves the image on the board
completely sealed with a glossy green finish. I believe the paper was
about $1 per 8.5x11 sheet and I don't remember how much the "GreenTRF"
cost me, but it wasn't much for an 8in by 15ft piece.
I was making enough boards that I got myself a press designed for
making T-shirts. Actually my wife got tired of me complaining about
having to press so hard with the iron and bought it for me. It allows
me to set the temperature and the clamping force precisely and
repeatably, and it works great for transfering the image to the board.
The press was kinda pricey, I think she paid about $300 for it. Now
that's true love!
I've been using ammonium persulfate for etchant and just picked up
some peroxide and acid so I can try making my own etchant.
I have a drill stand for my Dremel Moto-tool that was made by Dremel
that I use for drilling the boards. I use a #10 Opti-Visor and have no
trouble drilling the boards even with my pathetic eyesight. The etched
drill guide holes in the center of the pads really helps hitting the
holes dead center. With just a little care drills will last until they
get dull. As a matter of fact the only time I break one is when I get
careless trying to go too fast.
I'm feeling pretty good this afternoon, so I think I'll try making a
board with a test pattern to see how fine I can get my tracks.
If I can run a track between 0.1" spaced pads and I'll be happy.
I think you'll like with your setup after you get the hang of doing
it.

Mike

Hello Jim

I use a similar setup to make boards all the time and it works
reasonably well. No 8mil tracks tho.

15 mils is easy. 10 mils with some care. Below that, no promises.


The paper is made by Pulsar and is Digi-Key P/N 182-1003-ND. If
you want to try it get the "GreenTRF" film to go with it, P/N
182-1021-ND. The GreenTRF film is just applied over the toner after it
is transfered from the paper and leaves the image on the board
completely sealed with a glossy green finish. I believe the paper was
about $1 per 8.5x11 sheet and I don't remember how much the "GreenTRF"
cost me, but it wasn't much for an 8in by 15ft piece.

I use the glossy photo basic paper from Staples, or Costco, or Sam's Club,
or whatever branded private label -- it works better than the "premium"
variety photo paper for whatever reason. It all seems to work the same.
The trick is to use copper-brite scouring powder made specifically for
copper and brass along with one of those green dish scouring pads to clean
and microscratch the bejabbers out of the board before applying the resist.
It also helps to preheat the board for about 5 minutes at 150F in a toaster
oven after cleaning but before ironing on the resist.


I've been using ammonium persulfate for etchant and just picked up
some peroxide and acid so I can try making my own etchant.

I've used ferric chloride, ammonium persulfate, and muriatic acid - hydrogen
peroxide and I MUCH prefer the muriatic-peroxide combination. What I have
NOT perfected in the etch process yet is a method of agitation for the
etchant. Right now I'm using an aquarium with an air pump and a "bubbling
stone", but would love to find another method. Perhaps I'll work on a
magnet with shrink sleeving and RTV to seal the ends and another magnet on a
motor underneath the aquarium bottom. That seems like a lot of hassle for a
simple agitation, but I haven't found a better way.



I have a drill stand for my Dremel Moto-tool that was made by Dremel
that I use for drilling the boards. I use a #10 Opti-Visor and have no
trouble drilling the boards even with my pathetic eyesight. The etched
drill guide holes in the center of the pads really helps hitting the
holes dead center. With just a little care drills will last until they
get dull. As a matter of fact the only time I break one is when I get
careless trying to go too fast.

The school I teach for has a half dozen good PCB drills, so I'm not yet
forced into that corner. I've also got a BIG pcb shop down the hill a bit,
and they throw away carbide drills by the sackful. I've gotten them to
throw a few sacks my way.


Jim