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Want: 73 & Ham Radio Magazines
Hi Len,
Good response; I just have a couple of minor things to add: wrote in message ups.com... If we look at what exists now, we get blase' about all the effort involved to make a product (almost as if "it always existed...") available for others to use. Too many of us take the THINGS we have for granted. When you can run down to the local computer store and buy something like a wireless router containing a 54Mbps digital radio with very sophisticated modulation schemes running from some embedded CPU with the equivalent horsepower of an 80386 with 64MB of RAM, all for $39.99, I can see why. :-) Very little actual "government software" was ever done, nearly all was hired, contracted outside work. I was thinking of programs such as Berkeley SPICE being "government software," actually. What "the universities" do is NOT NECESSARILY what goes on in the rest of the world! True, despite the self-promoting PR of "the universities!" Very true, although I think that many univerisites have found -- in the past couple of decades -- a need to become somewhat more aligned with industry in order to continue to procur funding. As far as IP protection on radio hobby magazines, that's still up in the air for many. If everyone wants to sit around and rebuild the regenerative receiver or "design" two-tube (or teeny two-transistor) transmitters, fine, but that is just re-inventing the wheel for the nth time. It is, although it can serve as a great educational tool for the person doing it. Since ham radio is -- for most people -- a hobby, re-inventing such radios is about the same as someone rebuliding the engine or transmission on a classic car: The end result is still not going to be as, say, fuel efficient or powerful as a modern design, but someone who understands the basics is then a very large way towards understanding the modern design... if they have any desire to do so. When you go to student engineering design expos these days, there's usually plenty of wireless interfaces to robots, data collection devices, etc.; they're almost always implemented with a little wireless module where you feed in digital data, and everything else all the way to the antenna is a black box. What you almost never see is something like a discrete transistor radio design implementing, say, BPSK at 1200bps (which often would suffice for the wireless data transmission needs). Although I find this a little lamentable, I realize that these days indsutry needs a lot more people creating such system- or IC-level designs (rather than, say, 50 years ago when I'd expect that most "electrical engineers" found themselves performing discrete transistor -- or tube! -- design), and I also realize that industry still seems to find graduates who become good RF IC designers, so clearly the problem isn't as bad as I might imagine and is probably more a reflection of just becoming set in my own ways instead! :-) Much of the output of the radio hobbyist press (other than new product info squibs and "reviews") is the publishers essentially copying their own old works...for their own profit. Sure, or someone taking an old design and adding a microcontroller interface/LCD/etc. (Seems to crop up a lot with auto-tuners, power meters, etc... I've been tempted to do one of these myself... something like a mobile 2m amplifier for an HT... 300mW in, 30W or so out, with digital display of SWR or whatever... clearly the "core design" of the amplifier and SWR meter has been around for decades now...) Granted, a lot of any "new design" is just modifying old designs with various new ideas, but the ARRL's standard to publish a "new" article is perhaps rather low. If we don't have IP protection, radio hobbyists will still be at least a half-century behind in most efforts of "radio," the practitioners busy, busy with nostalgic recollection of "the good old days" that were not that "good," just fascinating to individuals (like me) of a long time ago. What's missing is some reasonable means of licensing IP to people who want to use it on a hobbyist basis. A lot of the really good speech CODECs out there are legally protected, and although I'm sure the hobbyist developer would be happy to pay some few dollars to play with one, a large company is (typically) not interested in dealing with a single user to license a single instance of their technology... And even if that hobbyist's software is good, he might sell... what... 100 or 1000 copies of it? The royalties from that pale in comparison to licensing a CODEC to a cell phone manufacturer. As-is, HDTV reception and demodulation by a hobbyist is still legal -- but just barely, as various interests continue to push for "broadcast" flags. HD Radio probably wouldn't be legal at all to sit down and demodulate, but given that it's a proprietary standard, no hobbyist is presently able to do so anyway. I'm all for making sure that owners of IP are fairly compensated, and I believe that most hobbyist are willing to pay to do so, but the commerce models to do it just aren't there yet. How far would ham radio have gotten if it had been illegal to build your own FM radio? Or ATV receiver (since they usually still use NTSC as the baseband format)? On the upside, today it's easy to purchase RF components that allow one to build radios that have better performance and are cheaper to build than ever before. It's the hardware--software interface -- with software defined radios starting to become commonplace -- where you can't just go to DigiKey and purchase a CELP software license off the shelf; this is one of the problems holding back the development of ham radio. Granted, hams could -- and do -- development a lot of these things themselves, but given their technological sophistication, ham radio will now more than ever have to follow commercial standards (as they have with FM, NTSC for ATV, etc. -- it's been a _looonnng_ time since ham radio was _setting_ the standard, although the APRS guys do like to point out that a lot of commercial systems today still aren't as good as they are). ---Joel |
Want: 73 & Ham Radio Magazines
From: Joel Kolstad on Wed, Feb 22 2006 10:30 am
wrote in message If we look at what exists now, we get blase' about all the effort involved to make a product (almost as if "it always existed...") available for others to use. Too many of us take the THINGS we have for granted. When you can run down to the local computer store and buy something like a wireless router containing a 54Mbps digital radio with very sophisticated modulation schemes running from some embedded CPU with the equivalent horsepower of an 80386 with 64MB of RAM, all for $39.99, I can see why. :-) Microchip Semiconductor will tell everyone the same about their PICs (or Atmel about theirs)...and you have a good analogy! :-) But, as some 1950s-technology hams may grouse, "that's not RADIO!" [I've heard that bs way too often...grrrr] Those folks can go look into the Analog Devices ICs such as their various DDS or log-amp-detectors, all definitely working at RF, not "digital." Or some of the old (pre-split-up) Motorola definitely-analog complex arrays for various functions at RF, some still made and available 30+ years after first introduction. PLL by itself has made "boxes of rocks" (quartz crystal units) relatively obsolete after becoming state of the art in communications electronics around 1970. Look at the 1 GHz RF in cellular telephony and cordless phones operating at 5 GHz...I got into "pro" leagues in microwaves at 1.8 GHz in 1954, thinking that a 6-wide rack of radio relay equipment (using tubes) was "hot stuff"...only to think of regular use of a 2.4 GHz cordless handset as being "ordinary, everyday thing" 50 years later. Hey, the huge electronic supermarket called Fry's is just a mile and a half from my house here. Lots of low-cost, very- high-tech "toys" available in there. What "the universities" do is NOT NECESSARILY what goes on in the rest of the world! True, despite the self-promoting PR of "the universities!" Very true, although I think that many univerisites have found -- in the past couple of decades -- a need to become somewhat more aligned with industry in order to continue to procur funding. If they want to TEACH students what goes on in industry of the day, absolutely. They've gone insular amongst themselves in the last few decades...in the teaching part of their activity. As far as IP protection on radio hobby magazines, that's still up in the air for many. If everyone wants to sit around and rebuild the regenerative receiver or "design" two-tube (or teeny two-transistor) transmitters, fine, but that is just re-inventing the wheel for the nth time. It is, although it can serve as a great educational tool for the person doing it. Since ham radio is -- for most people -- a hobby, re-inventing such radios is about the same as someone rebuliding the engine or transmission on a classic car: The end result is still not going to be as, say, fuel efficient or powerful as a modern design, but someone who understands the basics is then a very large way towards understanding the modern design... if they have any desire to do so. That's true, yes, but those hobbyists have to stay within their own group to praise their work amongst themselves. I like some nostalgic things well enough, but I've already lived through (and worked in) the radio-electronics technology of the 1950s and do NOT think such is very close to state of the "radio" art of NOW. When you go to student engineering design expos these days, there's usually plenty of wireless interfaces to robots, data collection devices, etc.; they're almost always implemented with a little wireless module where you feed in digital data, and everything else all the way to the antenna is a black box. What you almost never see is something like a discrete transistor radio design implementing, say, BPSK at 1200bps (which often would suffice for the wireless data transmission needs). A discrete transistor radio would be too bulky for that purpose. Also a bit higher on the portable power source demand. :-) I finally got around to fixing and cleaning up an "old" Sony AM BC radio that was beloved by my late mother (the D cells had all stayed in and leaked out while she was ill). Great AM radio, very sensitive due to an added RF amplifier stage (rare in designs of 30 years ago and now). [it's so "old" that the push-pull linear AF stages used coupling transformers] About the same time my wife got an under-the-cabinet AM/FM/CD radio for her sewing room station (one wall of a guest room). That radio has a SINGLE IC that does the PLL functions for both AM/FM LO frequency control, all the RF-IF-detector stages, AND includes the time-of-day clock PLUS the LCD display functions! That IC is only available in very large quantities (from Asia) but it shows the tremendous amount of mixed-signal capability of a single IC nowadays. Although I find this a little lamentable, I realize that these days indsutry needs a lot more people creating such system- or IC-level designs (rather than, say, 50 years ago when I'd expect that most "electrical engineers" found themselves performing discrete transistor -- or tube! -- design), and I also realize that industry still seems to find graduates who become good RF IC designers, so clearly the problem isn't as bad as I might imagine and is probably more a reflection of just becoming set in my own ways instead! :-) Well - despite being (originally) a "mustang" EE who DID do discrete tube and transistor stage design - the electronics industry has tons of already-designed ICs for various RF purposes and the folks who thunk them up. The problem is more that they came about for MARKET SPECIFIC applications. Right now one can get almost anything needed for cell phone designs, including the cell site stuff...it has been the market driver for a few years. Maybe automotive electronics is next (some applications using RF for "wireless" things like tire pressure measurement while rolling)? PCs are old hat in the industry since the user market is starting to get saturated. Case in point for HF range transmitters: Asian designs for CB finals were already in production (in lots of thousands-plus per model) and being sold (by the tens of thousands) before 1970. Motorola started pushing power at HF, avoiding CB but going below and above it in frequency, having lots of designs of PA transistors of some power. Helge Granberg of Motorola bossed a lot of detailed, good Appnotes on the how-to and how-come aspects of various power amplifiers. [Communications Concepts has the ANs available and sells most of the "MRF" power transistors now] Motorola didn't sell as many as they thought and eventually dropped that line (before the double split into ON and Freescale). Yet Asian designers were, at the same time, turning out amateur radio power amplifiers in the 100 to 200 Watt category, lesser power outputs on VHF on their own. Nowhere can be found the depth of detail on design of those Asian HF power amp designs, but the Motorola Appnotes are still studied (even if the "MRFs" are getting a bit scarce). The detailed information EXISTS, but it doesn't exist for public distribution. The market doesn't allow it. Much of the output of the radio hobbyist press (other than new product info squibs and "reviews") is the publishers essentially copying their own old works...for their own profit. Sure, or someone taking an old design and adding a microcontroller interface/LCD/etc. (Seems to crop up a lot with auto-tuners, power meters, etc... I've been tempted to do one of these myself... something like a mobile 2m amplifier for an HT... 300mW in, 30W or so out, with digital display of SWR or whatever... clearly the "core design" of the amplifier and SWR meter has been around for decades now...) Granted, a lot of any "new design" is just modifying old designs with various new ideas, but the ARRL's standard to publish a "new" article is perhaps rather low. Well, in my view, there's too much ham emphasis on transmitters and power and mechanical aspect of things. Some other things have been neglected, but taken up by others selling a product. Another case in point: Neil Hecht's neat little frequency displays out of AADE in Seattle. No more than three ICs (all DIP) on a board plus a 2 x 16 LCD character display module. The main ingredient is a PIC microcontroller that does both the frequency counting (!), the display module's input, AND (optionally) a compensation for IF offset in multiple-conversion receiver/transceiver models. It can be mounted IN just about any boat-anchor (or smaller) HF transceiver and functions the same as a many-IC frequency counter. Strangely enough, it was "pioneered" NOT by a ham but a UK experimenter who was interested in getting a simple frequency counter. The Internet allowed the idea to spread all over the world. The microcontroller source code for similar units can be obtained (most places for free) but you need a programmer to stuff the code into the microcontroller. Or, find someone to do the PIC's ROM code burn-in for you. I bought an AADE L/C-Meter recently. Assembled, noting the extra cost wasn't all that much. It saved adding to my hobby workload. It is based on the same PIC microcontroller (but with different code). AADE publishes the schematic and component details. Had I bothered to learn the PIC instruction set (prodigious even if RISC), I could have done the programming myself...after about a thousand hours of fooling around with routines versus hardware. It was much easier for me to BUY the whole works, leaving precious time free for other things. What's missing is some reasonable means of licensing IP to people who want to use it on a hobbyist basis. A lot of that IP is already free. A major problem is that there are too many kinds of programming conventions for source codes. Few can be "expert" in all of them. Usually one can be "good" in only one, realistically speaking. As an example, Microchip has lots of utility routines of various kinds for free on their website...but one needs to know the PIC instruction set to make sense of them. In source code it would be (in my view) better to show the program flow rather than the code itself. That way anyone can translate flow into the particular source code they know. Oddly, most hobbyist programmers don't like to show flow diagrams...those aren't as "cool" as source code statements neatly arranged by the source code development program. :-( On the upside, today it's easy to purchase RF components that allow one to build radios that have better performance and are cheaper to build than ever before. Absolutely! It's the hardware--software interface -- with software defined radios starting to become commonplace -- where you can't just go to DigiKey and purchase a CELP software license off the shelf; this is one of the problems holding back the development of ham radio. I don't quite agree with the gist of your argument. SDR is the new buzzword and it can certainly apply to digital-based communications (cell phones, etc.) but not necessarily to the analog HF world. MOST of the transceivers for amateur radio, HF to UHF, are ALREADY software-controlled, courtesy of a built-in micro- processor or microcontroller. For PLL or DDS frequency control AND display of same, that is a necessity to achieve incredible (to 1950s standards) frequency control. That same little digital subsystem can do myriad other tasks to eliminate the physical mechanics of construction. The multi-wafer rotary bandswitch disappeared from ham transceivers on the market decades ago...and it's hard to get the parts for such rotary switch assemblies now for any electronic purpose except high-current switching. Because that ubiquitous internal micro has become so commonplace, it has led to a "radio box" that is controlled by a PC. That's a natural extension of the internal digital control already present. But, having the PC display the equivalent front panel does NOT make it an SDR! It's a neat selling point, makes it LOOK high-tech and "the latest thing" but the PC-controlled "radio box" is really just another version of the existing manually- controlled HF transceiver. IF - and only IF - amateur radio voice communications goes digital on HF will there be any real need for SDR in ham radio "bands" (the ones on HF). Right now the existing analog-only amplifiers and whatnot are mature and quite good enough. One problem with digital voice is that there isn't even a hint of a standard protocol or of many experimenters yielding any results on same. The Data modes allocated now can make do with peripheral adapters since they are not yet that numerous on HF. Granted, hams could -- and do -- development a lot of these things themselves, but given their technological sophistication, ham radio will now more than ever have to follow commercial standards (as they have with FM, NTSC for ATV, etc. -- it's been a _looonnng_ time since ham radio was _setting_ the standard, although the APRS guys do like to point out that a lot of commercial systems today still aren't as good as they are). Well, if we dwell on such true facts, it will lead to toxic levels of acrimony in here. :-) Back to watching HDTV from the Winter Olympics in Turin... |
Want: 73 & Ham Radio Magazines
From: Joel Kolstad on Wed, Feb 22 2006 10:30 am
wrote in message If we look at what exists now, we get blase' about all the effort involved to make a product (almost as if "it always existed...") available for others to use. Too many of us take the THINGS we have for granted. When you can run down to the local computer store and buy something like a wireless router containing a 54Mbps digital radio with very sophisticated modulation schemes running from some embedded CPU with the equivalent horsepower of an 80386 with 64MB of RAM, all for $39.99, I can see why. :-) Microchip Semiconductor will tell everyone the same about their PICs (or Atmel about theirs)...and you have a good analogy! :-) But, as some 1950s-technology hams may grouse, "that's not RADIO!" [I've heard that bs way too often...grrrr] Those folks can go look into the Analog Devices ICs such as their various DDS or log-amp-detectors, all definitely working at RF, not "digital." Or some of the old (pre-split-up) Motorola definitely-analog complex arrays for various functions at RF, some still made and available 30+ years after first introduction. PLL by itself has made "boxes of rocks" (quartz crystal units) relatively obsolete after becoming state of the art in communications electronics around 1970. Look at the 1 GHz RF in cellular telephony and cordless phones operating at 5 GHz...I got into "pro" leagues in microwaves at 1.8 GHz in 1954, thinking that a 6-wide rack of radio relay equipment (using tubes) was "hot stuff"...only to think of regular use of a 2.4 GHz cordless handset as being "ordinary, everyday thing" 50 years later. Hey, the huge electronic supermarket called Fry's is just a mile and a half from my house here. Lots of low-cost, very- high-tech "toys" available in there. What "the universities" do is NOT NECESSARILY what goes on in the rest of the world! True, despite the self-promoting PR of "the universities!" Very true, although I think that many univerisites have found -- in the past couple of decades -- a need to become somewhat more aligned with industry in order to continue to procur funding. If they want to TEACH students what goes on in industry of the day, absolutely. They've gone insular amongst themselves in the last few decades...in the teaching part of their activity. As far as IP protection on radio hobby magazines, that's still up in the air for many. If everyone wants to sit around and rebuild the regenerative receiver or "design" two-tube (or teeny two-transistor) transmitters, fine, but that is just re-inventing the wheel for the nth time. It is, although it can serve as a great educational tool for the person doing it. Since ham radio is -- for most people -- a hobby, re-inventing such radios is about the same as someone rebuliding the engine or transmission on a classic car: The end result is still not going to be as, say, fuel efficient or powerful as a modern design, but someone who understands the basics is then a very large way towards understanding the modern design... if they have any desire to do so. That's true, yes, but those hobbyists have to stay within their own group to praise their work amongst themselves. I like some nostalgic things well enough, but I've already lived through (and worked in) the radio-electronics technology of the 1950s and do NOT think such is very close to state of the "radio" art of NOW. When you go to student engineering design expos these days, there's usually plenty of wireless interfaces to robots, data collection devices, etc.; they're almost always implemented with a little wireless module where you feed in digital data, and everything else all the way to the antenna is a black box. What you almost never see is something like a discrete transistor radio design implementing, say, BPSK at 1200bps (which often would suffice for the wireless data transmission needs). A discrete transistor radio would be too bulky for that purpose. Also a bit higher on the portable power source demand. :-) I finally got around to fixing and cleaning up an "old" Sony AM BC radio that was beloved by my late mother (the D cells had all stayed in and leaked out while she was ill). Great AM radio, very sensitive due to an added RF amplifier stage (rare in designs of 30 years ago and now). [it's so "old" that the push-pull linear AF stages used coupling transformers] About the same time my wife got an under-the-cabinet AM/FM/CD radio for her sewing room station (one wall of a guest room). That radio has a SINGLE IC that does the PLL functions for both AM/FM LO frequency control, all the RF-IF-detector stages, AND includes the time-of-day clock PLUS the LCD display functions! That IC is only available in very large quantities (from Asia) but it shows the tremendous amount of mixed-signal capability of a single IC nowadays. Although I find this a little lamentable, I realize that these days indsutry needs a lot more people creating such system- or IC-level designs (rather than, say, 50 years ago when I'd expect that most "electrical engineers" found themselves performing discrete transistor -- or tube! -- design), and I also realize that industry still seems to find graduates who become good RF IC designers, so clearly the problem isn't as bad as I might imagine and is probably more a reflection of just becoming set in my own ways instead! :-) Well - despite being (originally) a "mustang" EE who DID do discrete tube and transistor stage design - the electronics industry has tons of already-designed ICs for various RF purposes and the folks who thunk them up. The problem is more that they came about for MARKET SPECIFIC applications. Right now one can get almost anything needed for cell phone designs, including the cell site stuff...it has been the market driver for a few years. Maybe automotive electronics is next (some applications using RF for "wireless" things like tire pressure measurement while rolling)? PCs are old hat in the industry since the user market is starting to get saturated. Case in point for HF range transmitters: Asian designs for CB finals were already in production (in lots of thousands-plus per model) and being sold (by the tens of thousands) before 1970. Motorola started pushing power at HF, avoiding CB but going below and above it in frequency, having lots of designs of PA transistors of some power. Helge Granberg of Motorola bossed a lot of detailed, good Appnotes on the how-to and how-come aspects of various power amplifiers. [Communications Concepts has the ANs available and sells most of the "MRF" power transistors now] Motorola didn't sell as many as they thought and eventually dropped that line (before the double split into ON and Freescale). Yet Asian designers were, at the same time, turning out amateur radio power amplifiers in the 100 to 200 Watt category, lesser power outputs on VHF on their own. Nowhere can be found the depth of detail on design of those Asian HF power amp designs, but the Motorola Appnotes are still studied (even if the "MRFs" are getting a bit scarce). The detailed information EXISTS, but it doesn't exist for public distribution. The market doesn't allow it. Much of the output of the radio hobbyist press (other than new product info squibs and "reviews") is the publishers essentially copying their own old works...for their own profit. Sure, or someone taking an old design and adding a microcontroller interface/LCD/etc. (Seems to crop up a lot with auto-tuners, power meters, etc... I've been tempted to do one of these myself... something like a mobile 2m amplifier for an HT... 300mW in, 30W or so out, with digital display of SWR or whatever... clearly the "core design" of the amplifier and SWR meter has been around for decades now...) Granted, a lot of any "new design" is just modifying old designs with various new ideas, but the ARRL's standard to publish a "new" article is perhaps rather low. Well, in my view, there's too much ham emphasis on transmitters and power and mechanical aspect of things. Some other things have been neglected, but taken up by others selling a product. Another case in point: Neil Hecht's neat little frequency displays out of AADE in Seattle. No more than three ICs (all DIP) on a board plus a 2 x 16 LCD character display module. The main ingredient is a PIC microcontroller that does both the frequency counting (!), the display module's input, AND (optionally) a compensation for IF offset in multiple-conversion receiver/transceiver models. It can be mounted IN just about any boat-anchor (or smaller) HF transceiver and functions the same as a many-IC frequency counter. Strangely enough, it was "pioneered" NOT by a ham but a UK experimenter who was interested in getting a simple frequency counter. The Internet allowed the idea to spread all over the world. The microcontroller source code for similar units can be obtained (most places for free) but you need a programmer to stuff the code into the microcontroller. Or, find someone to do the PIC's ROM code burn-in for you. I bought an AADE L/C-Meter recently. Assembled, noting the extra cost wasn't all that much. It saved adding to my hobby workload. It is based on the same PIC microcontroller (but with different code). AADE publishes the schematic and component details. Had I bothered to learn the PIC instruction set (prodigious even if RISC), I could have done the programming myself...after about a thousand hours of fooling around with routines versus hardware. It was much easier for me to BUY the whole works, leaving precious time free for other things. What's missing is some reasonable means of licensing IP to people who want to use it on a hobbyist basis. A lot of that IP is already free. A major problem is that there are too many kinds of programming conventions for source codes. Few can be "expert" in all of them. Usually one can be "good" in only one, realistically speaking. As an example, Microchip has lots of utility routines of various kinds for free on their website...but one needs to know the PIC instruction set to make sense of them. In source code it would be (in my view) better to show the program flow rather than the code itself. That way anyone can translate flow into the particular source code they know. Oddly, most hobbyist programmers don't like to show flow diagrams...those aren't as "cool" as source code statements neatly arranged by the source code development program. :-( On the upside, today it's easy to purchase RF components that allow one to build radios that have better performance and are cheaper to build than ever before. Absolutely! It's the hardware--software interface -- with software defined radios starting to become commonplace -- where you can't just go to DigiKey and purchase a CELP software license off the shelf; this is one of the problems holding back the development of ham radio. I don't quite agree with the gist of your argument. SDR is the new buzzword and it can certainly apply to digital-based communications (cell phones, etc.) but not necessarily to the analog HF world. MOST of the transceivers for amateur radio, HF to UHF, are ALREADY software-controlled, courtesy of a built-in micro- processor or microcontroller. For PLL or DDS frequency control AND display of same, that is a necessity to achieve incredible (to 1950s standards) frequency control. That same little digital subsystem can do myriad other tasks to eliminate the physical mechanics of construction. The multi-wafer rotary bandswitch disappeared from ham transceivers on the market decades ago...and it's hard to get the parts for such rotary switch assemblies now for any electronic purpose except high-current switching. Because that ubiquitous internal micro has become so commonplace, it has led to a "radio box" that is controlled by a PC. That's a natural extension of the internal digital control already present. But, having the PC display the equivalent front panel does NOT make it an SDR! It's a neat selling point, makes it LOOK high-tech and "the latest thing" but the PC-controlled "radio box" is really just another version of the existing manually- controlled HF transceiver. IF - and only IF - amateur radio voice communications goes digital on HF will there be any real need for SDR in ham radio "bands" (the ones on HF). Right now the existing analog-only amplifiers and whatnot are mature and quite good enough. One problem with digital voice is that there isn't even a hint of a standard protocol or of many experimenters yielding any results on same. The Data modes allocated now can make do with peripheral adapters since they are not yet that numerous on HF. Granted, hams could -- and do -- development a lot of these things themselves, but given their technological sophistication, ham radio will now more than ever have to follow commercial standards (as they have with FM, NTSC for ATV, etc. -- it's been a _looonnng_ time since ham radio was _setting_ the standard, although the APRS guys do like to point out that a lot of commercial systems today still aren't as good as they are). Well, if we dwell on such true facts, it will lead to toxic levels of acrimony in here. :-) Back to watching HDTV from the Winter Olympics in Turin... |
Want: 73 & Ham Radio Magazines
Hi Len,
You have a lot of interesting history in there! wrote in message ups.com... But, as some 1950s-technology hams may grouse, "that's not RADIO!" Yeah, I'm surprised just how 'neatly' some people seem to be able to decide what is and isn't 'radio.' Hey, the huge electronic supermarket called Fry's is just a mile and a half from my house here. Lots of low-cost, very- high-tech "toys" available in there. I think it's ironic how the cool fashion accessory today is something like a Motorola Razr phone with its associated millions of transistors buried in numerous ICs running software that even relatively few BSEE's would fully understand without a fair amount of additional study (turbo codes, direct sequence spread spectrum systems, psychoacoustic codecs, etc. not usually being a large part of the undergraduate curriculum...), yet 30 years ago anyway hauling around a brick-sized ham radio or CB was quite the nerdy thing to do... Incredible how times change... If they want to TEACH students what goes on in industry of the day, absolutely. They've gone insular amongst themselves in the last few decades...in the teaching part of their activity. IMO one of the biggest problems universities face is that everyone is "expected" to get a 4 year degree these days, and yet the reality of the marketplace is that relatively few jobs truly require anything approach that level of "hard core" education. Hence, engineering courses get watered down, and a lot of BSEE of BSCS students end up performing straightforward programming or digital design using techniques that a 2 year technical college could have easily provided them with. Industry has often contributed to this problem, requiring even technical sales people to now have those 4 year degrees... sheesh! Maybe automotive electronics is next (some applications using RF for "wireless" things like tire pressure measurement while rolling)? I think we're just about there -- I've seen chipsets that'll provide, e.g., some tens of bytes of data once every second or so and consume mere tens of microwatts (on average) to operate; that seems like the kind of thing some clever person can generate just from the rotation of the tire itself using some horribly crude & dirt cheap implementation of a "generator." Well, in my view, there's too much ham emphasis on transmitters and power and mechanical aspect of things. What would you like to see more of? Another case in point: Neil Hecht's neat little frequency displays out of AADE in Seattle. I haven't used one, but I'm aware of their existance. I bought one of Neil's L/C meters years ago now and put it together myself -- I don't recall if an assembled version was even available as an option then. I came across his web site again recently while tracking down a copy of his filter designer (which includes some very useful hints and tips on various transforms), and was pleased to find that he now gives it away for free, stating that he was selling so much more hardware than software anyway, it wasn't worth his effort to keep charging for the software! Oddly, most hobbyist programmers don't like to show flow diagrams...those aren't as "cool" as source code statements neatly arranged by the source code development program. :-( I always figured they just didn't want to go to the extra effort. :-) I agreee that source code alone usually isn't as good as a clear flow diagram. I don't quite agree with the gist of your argument. SDR is the new buzzword and it can certainly apply to digital-based communications (cell phones, etc.) but not necessarily to the analog HF world. I did mean "true" SDRs, such as GNU Radio, Flex Radio, etc. I think it has plenty of application to the HF world (indeed, the development of digital modes for HF seems much more active than on VHF/UHF, which has always struck me as kinda bizarre given how much less bandwidth is available there in the first place... but of course the fact that you can get a signal to the other side of the planet on 100W in good condition is always a big motivator...) IF - and only IF - amateur radio voice communications goes digital on HF will there be any real need for SDR in ham radio "bands" (the ones on HF). I agree with you on this (in that, with analog HF modes, you don't really gain that much by using SDR), but I hasten to point out that there's no "real need" for the analog modes either :-). Whether or not that means Yaesu/Icom/Kenwood/etc. actually make a full-blown HF SDR that supports both the traditional analog modes and some set of newer digital ones, I don't know. One problem with digital voice is that there isn't even a hint of a standard protocol or of many experimenters yielding any results on same. Have I mentioned how some of the best low-bit rate CODECs are proprietary and/or patented and not licensable by a single lowly hobbyist? ;-) Back to watching HDTV from the Winter Olympics in Turin... We have an HDTV tuner but only an "EDTV" TV (an older plasma set), and it still looks fantastic; I've been most impressed. ---Joel |
Fry's Electronics ,was : Want: 73 & Ham Radio Magazines
Len Anderson wrote:
Hey, the huge electronic supermarket called Fry's is just a mile and a half from my house here. Lots of low-cost, very- high-tech "toys" available in there. ============================== Indeed an amazing place,(I visited the Manhattan Beach CA store 2months ago) It is also a place with a limited selection of (pre-packaged)discrete components (Rat Shack style) However they only sell semiconductors under the NTE designation code ,so if you need semiconductors ,it is wise to bring a cross-reference table. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Want: 73 & Ham Radio Magazines
From: Joel Kolstad on Wed, Feb 22 2006 7:54 pm
Hi Len, You have a lot of interesting history in there! I feel fortunate to have experienced (first-hand) the electronics technology revolution of the last 60 years. Truly remarkable times! I think it's ironic how the cool fashion accessory today is something like a Motorola Razr phone with its associated millions of transistors buried in numerous ICs running software that even relatively few BSEE's would fully understand without a fair amount of additional study (turbo codes, direct sequence spread spectrum systems, psychoacoustic codecs, etc. not usually being a large part of the undergraduate curriculum...), yet 30 years ago anyway hauling around a brick-sized ham radio or CB was quite the nerdy thing to do... Incredible how times change... Don't forget that MARKETING has been responsible for setting "the public's" definitions of "cool" things. Lots of the products on today's market are the work of specialists together in one product family. It is difficult for anyone to be a guru in more than one discipline within electronics (and radio). Take the general MPEG4 compression that enables HDTV to work within a 6 MHz bandwidth (and enabling 4-channel sound and assorted whatnot to coexist there). Having been slightly involved in some test equipment design for same, the concept is mind-boggling to me. "Tylenol time" to attempt under- standing it. I'd rather sit back and watch, enjoying the MUCH better picture of HDTV as compared to the old 4:3 aspect ratio analog TV. As far as I'm concerned, the compression techniques are complicated enough that they don't seem to need any IP protection... If they want to TEACH students what goes on in industry of the day, absolutely. They've gone insular amongst themselves in the last few decades...in the teaching part of their activity. IMO one of the biggest problems universities face is that everyone is "expected" to get a 4 year degree these days, and yet the reality of the marketplace is that relatively few jobs truly require anything approach that level of "hard core" education. Hence, engineering courses get watered down, and a lot of BSEE of BSCS students end up performing straightforward programming or digital design using techniques that a 2 year technical college could have easily provided them with. Industry has often contributed to this problem, requiring even technical sales people to now have those 4 year degrees... sheesh! I would "blame" personnel departments for the "degree required." Hey, it's hard enough for them (now called "Human Resources") to try to sort out applications in all the myriad specialties typical of an electronics house in the industry now. Over 30 years ago RCA Corporation used to give two-level interviews to applicants; initial screening in personnel, final screening by engineering department folks (not necessarily liking the task). That was a better, quicker way to separate the good from the bad and ugly. I got hired by them that way and later wound up as one of those who did the second-level final screening. It works. In practical matters, academia just doesn't have the familiarity with "industry practice" so it can't get a good handle on what they really need to stuff in a curricula. That's academia's problem..."industry" is going to go ahead and do its thing anyway, regardless of title-rank-status blinged into minds by academicians. "Industry" exists to stay in existance, make products, make profits. "Industry" ALSO winds up as the general inventor-innovator-creator of new technology...they just don't allot a lot of time to write up much of it a la academicians, only for marketing purposes to get folks buying their new stuff. I think we're just about there -- I've seen chipsets that'll provide, e.g., some tens of bytes of data once every second or so and consume mere tens of microwatts (on average) to operate; that seems like the kind of thing some clever person can generate just from the rotation of the tire itself using some horribly crude & dirt cheap implementation of a "generator." Well, I'd point out the simple little "fob" transmitter for the "keyless entry" system. A single IC in there that both generates the "rolling code" digital sequence AND the tiny UHF transmitter. The code sequence is flexible enough, simple enough to set up for tens of thousands of different combinations, low-power enough to last for years without a battery change, can work in sub-zero and desert temperatures. And be relatively cheap to make as well as small enough to carry in a trouser pocket. One heckuva set of specs there! The "keyless entry" receiver is as complicated, yet is only a small part of the overall electronics in a modern auto. My wife's (she picked it out, I okayed it) new Malibu hatchback has ten kinds of bells and whistles on its dash display, a relative drop in the bucket compared to its normal housekeeping computerized chores of checking things, adjusting carburation, alert warnings, light control, etc., etc., etc. It's made possible by the ubiquitous microcomputer (now just thirty- something old). Wonderful stuff in my view! Takes some of the worry about cross-country driving as well as everyday driving. Well, in my view, there's too much ham emphasis on transmitters and power and mechanical aspect of things. What would you like to see more of? Receivers, subjects that don't emphasize the new buzzwords of the industry. Oscillators, some practical skinny that doesn't mirror the current industry need for "low phase noise" (applicable to FM and PM yes, but not many DSSS high-speed data communications going on in amateur radio). Practical simple test equipment for Rx and Tx that doesn't need some specialty component part or unobtainium. Most authors use what they had (leftovers from work or other projects) and don't mention what could be substituted. Some better theory and practical uses of complex quantities that involve impedance and admittance...especially how to measure them good enough for a home workshop environment. A vector impedance meter and vector analysis system is just now (in the last few years) appearing in the ham scene. Some practical stuff on making inductors, Q affected by what, how to measure approximate Q with workshop gear. Some APPLICABLE (not product-specific promotional-based) information on making things in the home workshop, whether it is "manhattan-style" PCBs or even better soldering techniques. [RoHS is with us, like it or not, an tin solder without the lead doesn't handle as the old solder did] How to work with materials properly, metal to fiberglass-epoxy sheet or whatever. Even something on standard screws, fasteners, things that can hold something together. Avoid the TV craft-show techniques of most of the show content concerned with promoting some latest maker's new stuff...while it is momentarily interesting it is also obviously a part of marketing pushing this new craft stuff. ["product reviews" are a gross example of this kind of PR] A "tuna-tin two" two-transistor Tx is cute, but crammed into an Altoids box? QRP is kind of a specialty niche and probably deserves a special issue of some magazine for that, but the lure of "simplification" (in size and complexity) for simplicity's sake doesn't TEACH much of anything except serve as a real test of dexterity on the part of the builder. "Simplicity" in ham radio was very popular from the 30s to the 50s because ready-built was expen$ive then. Simple things could be built in a few weekends, provided some enjoyment, but not a great deal of real learning (other than assembly) into theory. Today it is possible to build a "simple" single-conversion HF superhet receiver with zilch problems of image response yet have fine selective IF response for AM voice. Takes all of six ICs on a PCB size less than 6" x 8" in size. Frequency control in tuning can be simple or complex as desired. I did mean "true" SDRs, such as GNU Radio, Flex Radio, etc. I think it has plenty of application to the HF world (indeed, the development of digital modes for HF seems much more active than on VHF/UHF, which has always struck me as kinda bizarre given how much less bandwidth is available there in the first place... but of course the fact that you can get a signal to the other side of the planet on 100W in good condition is always a big motivator...) IF - and only IF - the ionosphere is kind to you... :-) In digitized "data" modes for amateur use, there's only ONE new, innovated-for-ham-use mode: PSK31. All other modes involving "data" are adaptations of commercial-use modes. One mountain-states small company had their first product as a "beginner's HF PSK31 transceiver." It didn't sell despite having some neat, modern microcomputer and display screen, keyboard included. It wasn't "traditional ham" gear, wasn't pushed by a big company. Peter Martinez (G3PLX) had his PSK31 up, running, and being tested by others using it in Europe for a few years without any real details of it appearing in USA ham magazines. There just isn't much of anything else in "data" comms standards here in the USA unless it is already developed and debugged by "the industry." Digitized voice IS possible in narrowbandwidths on HF but there don't seem to be any amateur experimenters trying it out. What would SDR do without any standards to adapt to? One can PROCESS an IF today and do things like make a digital spectrum analyzer (I don't see much effort spent on that). That isn't really a Software DEFUNED radio system. Firmware-software already CONTROLS most of the functions in modern ready-built amateur radios. That isn't really Software DEFINED radio either. OK, the quibble is a minor thing. Software/firmware/digital-control is definitely on the scene today. One problem with digital voice is that there isn't even a hint of a standard protocol or of many experimenters yielding any results on same. Have I mentioned how some of the best low-bit rate CODECs are proprietary and/or patented and not licensable by a single lowly hobbyist? ;-) Yes, you did. :-) I also mentioned that there's not much of a hint of anyone in the USA experimenting on their own to make a trial or two at their prospective standard. Someone must BEGIN, be the flag-bearer, the amateur pioneer. What is bizarre (to me) is that a modern PC has much more computing power than big mainframes I connected to 30 years ago to do ordinary synthesis-analysis of circuitry. The tools for experimentation on coders-decoders EXIST NOW. Perhaps the biggest bottleneck to all this possible pioneering is the current mindset of radio amateurs. If it doesn't "look" like "radio" (of their time), it "isn't real radio." :-( The editors of the few remaining ham publications have the paper-version control over what everyone sees for new things. THEY are the ones needing to look into the future and do gauging on what THEY think is "good" for readers. Meanwhile, the Internet is busy, busy showing lots and lots of new things that ARE done, can be done, to anyone who bothers to search. [there's quite a bit of material on CODECs and general DSP out there once you get the right key search words] Most of what we see on the Internet is not locked up in truly enforceable copyrights. |
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