Mike G4KFK wrote:
Three Cheers for PC Fuller! wrote:

Stalker boy's at it again...


It's sad, isn't it?

I wonder what happens to him during the week, that could possibly
explain his tetchy behaviour at weekends? Maybe they don't warm the
electrodes up before giving him his ECT?


I think you're on to something here! ECT causes short term memory loss.
This could be why he posts the same dross over and over again - he
simply forgot that he'd posted it last week!

Wiggy

Let's Have a go at answering the inane banter that comes from Mr Evans...

"Plod's Conscience" wrote in message
ups.com...
When reading this, be on the guard against the Cry Baby (CB),
the Cackling Bully (CB) and the Complete Buffoon (CB)!

The above abbreviations reveal who really is the childish broadcaster...

What is Ham Radio?

It is becoming increasingly difficult to fly the flag for
decency and for civilised behaviour in Radio Hammery.

With people like you 'encouraging' new people to the hobby is it any wonder?

Even
the Usenet newsgroups dedicated to the cause have degenerated
into a hotbed of abusive onslaughts by those who ought to know better.

Agreed. The sense of help and encouragement shown towards all newcomers to
the hobby is very lacking. Is it any wonder a few give up and go 'off the
rails'...

However, there still exists the fundamental basis on which Ham
Radio is based, and that will never die. This FAQ ("What Is
Ham Radio?") will be regularly published and will not be
shouted or bullied down. It is important that those of a
technical bent, who are the natural seed-corn of Radio Hammery
and who gravitate towards us to be the real novitiate, can
still find us, (and know that we are still here), their fellows.

But you blatantly dismiss anyone who dare take that first step into
"Hammery" so how can they gravitate towards you?

-----ooooo-----

Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity! (If you find
otherwise, then perhaps you are already classing yourself in the
mediocre groups of those who are criticised in the FAQ and from
whom we _MUST_ dissociate? If so - it's never too late for
a re-taxonomisation on your part - there's nothing elitist about
us, and we welcome all those who are prepared to put themselves
out in order to join our ranks!)

How are beginners expected to "put themselves out? when the only way to
"hammery" is through the M3 direction?

-----ooooo-----
So,.....What is Ham Radio?

Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.

Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!

We do try but then get ridiculed by you... if you were to perhaps fill the
pool a little it might be helpful...

This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.

Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.

To be proud of yes but jealously guarded? How are you going to guard it...
by demanding Morse be set at 20-30 WPM in_all_classes of "Hammery"

The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years
and now encompasses DSP and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.

A bit like CB really. You start off with a basic package, you get more
interested and learn the technical skills to install your own station and
some go on to build their own antenna arrays, repair their own radio's and
that of friends then some decide to take it a step further into the Amateur
radio side of things only to meet up with people like you in the forums who
welcome with one hand then dismiss immediately with the other with long
winded diatribe...

The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.

Just like CB, I remember the fox-hunts we had in the late 70's - early 80's
and what fun they were too. I remember also the joys of DX on 11 metres,
especially the competitions and the sense of achievement in contacting those
far away stations. Seems the two hobbies are similar after all... (How dare
I make that comparison eh...)

However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;

Then that is appalling as most CB'ers I know are now Amateurs and are quite
respectable too. They have always shown a fascination in radio, in it's DX
use and internal workings and antenna from their CB days to today...

they are free with rather silly personal insults;

You mean like "Childish Broadcaster" "Cry Baby" "Cackling Bully" "Complete
Buffoon" "Criminals" "M3/CB fools" calling men who question them "girls" and
so on... yes, very silly...

they have not satisfied any technical qualification
and their licences prevent the use of
self-designed-and-built equipment.

You mean they haven't completed a multi-guess ticky box test? Well, unless
someone's completed one of those then they obviously must know nothing at
all...

These CB types engage in the competitive activities
with their Cheque-Book-purchased off-the-shelf radios
in a forlorn effort to prove that they are Radio Hams.

Like probably over 90% of "Full" Licence Amateurs who prefer to build only
some bits of kit and have an "off the shelf" radio as their main tool...?

No _REAL_ Radio Hams are deceived by such people!

Are you sure?

One such CB type is the so-called "Not-Ham". Otherwise
known as the CBer-Masquerading-As-A-Radio-Ham, this type
had their background in the hobby that is CB Radio and not
in the technical pursuits that lead up to a coveted Ham licence.
Easily recognised by their boasts of the criminal activity of
11 metre SSB operation, one wonders why they don't go back to
the CB Bands if such bands are dearer in their hearts than are the Ham
Bands? No _REAL Radio Hams associate with those who made an
illegal installation of transmitting equipment before being
in possession of an appropriate licence.

Several people even in this group have admitted to installing and using 2
Metre equipment before they actively became Amateurs... and some of these
'illegal's are even teachers of the hobby now...

One infallible way to disambiguate the CB Radio Hobbyist
from the _REAL_ Radio Ham is to solicit their view of the
difference between CB Radio and Ham Radio. A Radio Ham will
perceive Ham Radio to be a technical pursuit and will
perceive CB Radio to be a social communications facility
no different in essence to a land-line telephone

No disagreement there... CB radio was devised originally as a "service" for
the community to keep in local touch with each other. Then anyone wishing to
Advance would learn more and become a licensed Radio Amateur. Pretty
straightforward stuff really.

or a
GSM mobile in the hands of a 6-year-old. Thus a Radio Ham
could also hold a CB licence safe in the knowledge that
such a licence says no more about him than having a land-line
telephone, whilst continuing to regard Ham Radio as a separate
technical pursuit.

Maybe not separate, but a more advanced hobby yes. With the advent of mobile
phones and just about every UK home having a telephone of some description
why would a Radio Amateur wish to use a CB as a land-line especially as the
average CB set up has only a 5 mile radius? Your argument on this point
holds no water.

A CB Radio hobbyist, on the other hand, sees no difference between
a Ham Radio licence and a CB Radio licence. To him, they are
sisters-under-the-skin. Wrongly, the CB Radio Hobbyist then
tries to classify himself as the equal of the Radio
Ham when, in fact, he is nothing of the kind.

No CB'er I have ever met or known has ever considered or classed himself as
a Radio Ham. Maybe if you had said M3 Licence holder I could agree with you
to a point...

A sure sign of
a CB Radio hobbyist is if he holds, or has ever held, a licence
issued under the gangrenous degeneration that is the
M3/CB Fools' Licence scheme.

Floored statement once again. Every prospective Amateur needs to sit the M3
test before he advances (or not) and may have even only held said licence
for a couple of weeks to make sure he/she is comfortable with the hobby
before moving on... It is the ONLY route into "Hammery" now...

One group of people who claim to be of the standard of
Radio Hams but who are in reality nothing more than an
apology for the failure of a CBer are those class B
licensees who falsely proclaimed that they were against
the use of a Morse Test to control access to the HF
bands, until, that is, a test was introduced at their
intellectual level, the intellectual level of 6-year-olds.

Another completely floored argument. Please state how many 6 yr olds hold an
M3 or any other radio licence. I bet you could count them on one hand. Just
because a 6 yr old 'could' pass the test if he/she is intelligently bright
enough doesn't mean any 6 yr old can pass it. At 6 yrs old you are still
very very young and immature and as I have said previously, unless the
parents who are Amateurs themselves push their siblings into the hobby they
certainly wouldn't think of it themselves... And before anyone comes back
saying how simple the test is, then yes, for you it would be but not to a 6
yr old.

6 year-olds simply lack the mathematical tool kit to
enable them to handle even the simplest algebraic manipulation
for Ohm's Law and thus, the disgraceful Class Ber's in
the aforementioned category are not Radio Hams by any stretch
of the imagination!

All because they weren't interested in Morse code, that antiquated
communication method pre-dating last century and rarely used now apart from
by a few 'die hard' Amateurs. It was a different story back in the 40's and
50's. We don't even light beacons anymore to warn of invasion. Time to move
into the real world Mr Evans...

Remember - A sure sign of a CB Radio hobbyist is if he holds,
or has ever held, a licence issued under the gangrenous
degeneration that is the M3/CB Fools' Licence scheme!

No need to comment further here...

I would love to see the answers he would give to my questions but I won't
hold my breath...

He would be too busy thinking up his next diatribe against the police and
"not-hams" to concern himself with me...

Graham
--
-.-. -... / .-. .- -.. .. ---

Radio is only a Hobby. Don't let it rule your life...

73/51 - Graham, 26-Golf Charlie-19

The Magnum wrote:

How are beginners expected to "put themselves out? when the only way to
"hammery" is through the M3 direction?

They can take the tests as that is the route they have to take. But
they certainly don't have to lower themselves to actually applying for
an M3 callsign! Maybe they could take one of the TWO all day sessions
that Brian mentioned and go straight to a Full licence. It's just a
shame this facility isn't offered ALL the time. Brian still hasn't
given a good answer as to why that facility isn't available ALL the time!

To be proud of yes but jealously guarded? How are you going to guard it...
by demanding Morse be set at 20-30 WPM in_all_classes of "Hammery"

That would be a good start. At least we'd get rid of a lot of the chaff
that has no intention of progressing up the so-called progressive
licensing scheme (a.k.a. an M3 licensee of more than one year). If
there had been a 20-30wpm Morse test when they got their M3 farce
licence, then they would never have bothered and Amateur Radio would
have been a better place as a result.

Just like CB, I remember the fox-hunts we had in the late 70's - early 80's
and what fun they were too. I remember also the joys of DX on 11 metres,
especially the competitions and the sense of achievement in contacting those
far away stations. Seems the two hobbies are similar after all... (How dare
I make that comparison eh...)

Just curious.... was that 11M DXing on SSB? Can't really see what
excitement there would be trying to DX with 4W of FM!

No disagreement there... CB radio was devised originally as a "service" for
the community to keep in local touch with each other.

So, why were you DXing on it if it is only to be used as a local service?

Please state how many 6 yr olds hold an
M3 or any other radio licence.

We have been asking Brian and the RSGB to release these non-personal
stats for ages but for some reason they always avoid the question.
Brian says he would be uncomfortable doing so himself, so why doesn't he
with his Board position of "Amateur Radio Development" within RSGB Ltd
get them published in RadCom. There really is no good reason why these
stats cannot be published unless they are trying to hide something.
Another interesting stat would be the percentage of M3s that have
progressed any further!!

All because they weren't interested in Morse code, that antiquated
communication method pre-dating last century and rarely used now apart from
by a few 'die hard' Amateurs.

You obviously don't listen to the HF bands much then! Morse code is
alive and well and is being used by a LOT of people. Take just about
any recent DXpedition in the past few years and look at the breakdown of
the QSOs regarding CW v SSB. Usually the CW totals are far ahead of the
SSB totals. "Rarely used".... you have no idea what you are talking
about! Or maybe you just hear all those funny noises at the low ends of
the bands and as you don't understand Morse code you are prejudiced
against it. Just a wild guess

Remember - A sure sign of a CB Radio hobbyist is if he holds,
or has ever held, a licence issued under the gangrenous
degeneration that is the M3/CB Fools' Licence scheme!

No need to comment further here...

Why? Do you agree? You've commented on everything else you disagreed with!

on 25/02/2006 09:26 The Chippenham Village Idiot said the following:
Your ongoing and desperate attempts to sneer
are as infantile as they are wrong. You really are
a sick and silly child.

http://2ndbracknell.co.uk/DistrictFootball.doc

http://www.quack.plus.com/Welcome_to_new_members.DOC

If the mobile number given there is incorrect, then better
for you to change it, or remove the web content.

Oh dear, what's your sudden interest in cubs and scouts, Beanie?
Have the sheep learned to fight?
....(_!_)...

Did someone mention

Gareth Alun Evans
13 Hardens Close
Chippenham
Wiltshire
SN15 3AA

01249 651897

Isn't that just off London Road and quite near the Cemetery ???

--
-.-. -... / .-. .- -.. .. ---

Radio is only a Hobby. Don't let it rule your life...

73/51 - Graham, 26-Golf Charlie-19

"know code" wrote in message
...
The Magnum wrote:

How are beginners expected to "put themselves out? when the only way to
"hammery" is through the M3 direction?

They can take the tests as that is the route they have to take. But
they certainly don't have to lower themselves to actually applying for
an M3 callsign! Maybe they could take one of the TWO all day sessions
that Brian mentioned and go straight to a Full licence. It's just a
shame this facility isn't offered ALL the time. Brian still hasn't
given a good answer as to why that facility isn't available ALL the time!

Like you say, it isn't available all the time. Also some people have to
study to advance as they are new to the hobby and can't do it all in a day.
Applying for the callsign gives them the opportunity to self learn on the
bands as well as studying for it. I totally agree though that there should
be a time limit on M3 licence holders before they are asked to advance or
leave the hobby as their indifference isn't in Amateur radio's best
interest.

To be proud of yes but jealously guarded? How are you going to guard
it...
by demanding Morse be set at 20-30 WPM in_all_classes of "Hammery"

That would be a good start. At least we'd get rid of a lot of the chaff
that has no intention of progressing up the so-called progressive
licensing scheme (a.k.a. an M3 licensee of more than one year). If
there had been a 20-30wpm Morse test when they got their M3 farce
licence, then they would never have bothered and Amateur Radio would
have been a better place as a result.

Judging by many peoples comments in the newsgroups and a few Amateurs I have
spoken to face to face many feel the hobby would have all but died compared
to what it used to be if the insistence of Morse was upheld especially to
that degree.

Just like CB, I remember the fox-hunts we had in the late 70's - early
80's
and what fun they were too. I remember also the joys of DX on 11 metres,
especially the competitions and the sense of achievement in contacting
those
far away stations. Seems the two hobbies are similar after all... (How
dare
I make that comparison eh...)

Just curious.... was that 11M Ding on SSB? Can't really see what
excitement there would be trying to DX with 4W of FM!

Yes, it would be DX'ing on 27.555MHz USB and probably more like 15w than 4.
Yes it was illegal but the achievement felt by making that contact when
others didn't think it could be done gave many a great sense of an
achievement rather than something that could be achieved so easily on
Amateur radio. If it is easy what's the point? Also I lived in Wales for a
time and it was not unknown to have contacts throughout Europe on 4w FM
because I managed it a few times myself. That was on UK27/81 legally too.

No disagreement there... CB radio was devised originally as a "service"
for
the community to keep in local touch with each other.

So, why were you Ding on it if it is only to be used as a local service?

Because some found it was possible to do and was quite interesting. When CB
was first introduced it was thought DX was impossible and many people who
had fought for AM believed FM would only get them "down the road". I used it
for both. Mainly to keep in touch with local friends (These were the days
before cell phones were commonplace) and talking to the locals and other
mobile stations when driving. CB is still un-beatable for that quick 10-13
(Traffic report) on the road ahead. DX was just an un-expected bonus.

Please state how many 6 yr olds hold an
M3 or any other radio licence.

We have been asking Brian and the RSGB to release these non-personal
stats for ages but for some reason they always avoid the question.
Brian says he would be uncomfortable doing so himself, so why doesn't he
with his Board position of "Amateur Radio Development" within RSGB Ltd
get them published in RadCom. There really is no good reason why these
stats cannot be published unless they are trying to hide something.
Another interesting stat would be the percentage of M3s that have
progressed any further!!

That would be useful information and figures would not and should not make
anyone uncomfortable in divulging. No-one was asking for specifics so for
one I cannot see Brian's reluctance in this matter. He could just say there
are 15 M3 licensed 6 yr old Amateurs. Now that in itself could not possibly
make someone feel uncomfortable. If he was asked to prove it by giving out
their call signs then that's a different story... but no-one is.

All because they weren't interested in Morse code, that antiquated
communication method pre-dating last century and rarely used now apart
from
by a few 'die hard' Amateurs.

You obviously don't listen to the HF bands much then! Morse code is
alive and well and is being used by a LOT of people. Take just about
any recent DXpedition in the past few years and look at the breakdown of
the QSOs regarding CW v SSB. Usually the CW totals are far ahead of the
SSB totals. "Rarely used".... you have no idea what you are talking
about! Or maybe you just hear all those funny noises at the low ends of
the bands and as you don't understand Morse code you are prejudiced
against it. Just a wild guess

You seem to miss my point on this subject every time we are in discussion
about it so I will say it again... I hold no ill judgement to anyone who
wishes to use Morse. I have no problem with Morse and I believe it is down
to the individual Amateur and should not forced on them to obtain 'superior'
status. Nor do I think it fair to mock "lazy-assed B's" simply because they
aren't really interested in Morse but are interested in everything else.
Morse isn't the be all and end all of Amateur radio. So there may be more
using it than I think..Compared to the amount of licensed Amateurs though I
bet it's pretty low in comparison. Let's ask Brian again if he can give us
any statistics on this?

Remember - A sure sign of a CB Radio hobbyist is if he holds,
or has ever held, a licence issued under the gangrenous
degeneration that is the M3/CB Fools' Licence scheme!

No need to comment further here...

Why? Do you agree? You've commented on everything else you disagreed
with!

Not really, the point was already answered several times so there was no
real need to comment further. Just like now really but I thought I might.
Besides which it's an open forum and disagreements can be aired quite
openly.

Regards,
Graham
--
-.-. -... / .-. .- -.. .. ---

Radio is only a Hobby. Don't let it rule your life...

73/51 - Graham, 26-Golf Charlie-19

The Magnum wrote:

To be proud of yes but jealously guarded? How are you going to guard
it...
by demanding Morse be set at 20-30 WPM in_all_classes of "Hammery"
That would be a good start. At least we'd get rid of a lot of the chaff
that has no intention of progressing up the so-called progressive
licensing scheme (a.k.a. an M3 licensee of more than one year). If
there had been a 20-30wpm Morse test when they got their M3 farce
licence, then they would never have bothered and Amateur Radio would
have been a better place as a result.

Judging by many peoples comments in the newsgroups and a few Amateurs I have
spoken to face to face many feel the hobby would have all but died compared
to what it used to be if the insistence of Morse was upheld especially to
that degree.

But that is simply not true and the statistics on the IARU website prove
it. The total number of Amateurs in the UK was increasing year in, year
out, and that was *before* either the Novice (now Intermediate) or
Foundation licenses were introduced.

However, the number of RSGB members was *reducing* year in, year out,
over the same period so the only reason RSGB Ltd backed these
unnecessary licence schemes so vigorously was to try to get more
members. They did not have the interests of Amateur Radio at heart, all
they were concerned with was keeping their commercial book publishing
company alive!

know code wrote:
The Magnum wrote:


Judging by many peoples comments in the newsgroups and a few Amateurs I have
spoken to face to face many feel the hobby would have all but died compared
to what it used to be if the insistence of Morse was upheld especially to
that degree.

But that is simply not true and the statistics on the IARU website prove
it. The total number of Amateurs in the UK was increasing year in, year
out, and that was *before* either the Novice (now Intermediate) or
Foundation licenses were introduced.

they prove nothing fo the kind how many of those licensee were active
you don't know

However, the number of RSGB members was *reducing* year in, year out,
over the same period so the only reason RSGB Ltd backed these
unnecessary licence schemes so vigorously was to try to get more
members. They did not have the interests of Amateur Radio at heart, all
they were concerned with was keeping their commercial book publishing
company alive!

same could be said of the ARRL but in both cases the organzation were
neither leading nor following nor getting out of the way, that is
likely the reason for the drift in the ARS over the last few years

but it is fact the insitance of Ham that Morse was somehow vital has
made us look like buffoons to rest of the folks out there that
perception is dangerous not so much from a numbers standpoint but from
the stand as being seen as worthy of the bw we hold

an Old friend wrote:
know code wrote:
The Magnum wrote:


Judging by many peoples comments in the newsgroups and a few Amateurs I have
spoken to face to face many feel the hobby would have all but died compared
to what it used to be if the insistence of Morse was upheld especially to
that degree.
But that is simply not true and the statistics on the IARU website prove
it. The total number of Amateurs in the UK was increasing year in, year
out, and that was *before* either the Novice (now Intermediate) or
Foundation licenses were introduced.

they prove nothing fo the kind how many of those licensee were active
you don't know


In the UK, licences are renewed annually so those statistics on the IARU
website are of licences that had been renewed in the previous 12 months.
That makes the statistics very valid in proving the point I was
making! Numbers were increasing year in, year out.

Now, had the licences only been renewed every 10 years like in the
States (soon the be every five years in the UK) then you may have had a
valid point.

"The Magnum" wrote:

Did someone mention


really Graham....

IT IS MY OPINION that you have a lot to learn.