Crystal replacement
 

I have a couple 6 channel public service radios that are in the 155Mhz
range. Some are synthesized and require cutting diodes to change the
frequency and that works out well.
But some are crystal controlled and with the cost and availability of
crystals it's cost prohibitive to re-crystal these radios. It looks like
these crystals are in the X9 mode so that puts them in the 16-16.5 MHz
range. I am considering building a VCO to inject a signal into the old
crystal socket to get around the crystal issue. Actually I figure a PIC to
program the PLL would be great. I'm just not sure what frequency to inject
into the old crystal socket. Should I build a 16mhz VCO or some harmonic?
Will injecting a signal into a crystal-less oscillator even work? I'm going
to use a ADF4110 PLL and a 16F89 PIC. Any suggestions for the VCO? Schematic
for a 16 MHz VCO?

Joe Loucka AG4QC



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Crystal replacement
 

If its for commercial use it would probably be easiest just to get the
crystals.
Otherwise designing a PLL system is possible - particularly if you want
to learn about them for your own education. But the work involved is not
trivial - probably not worth it for a few old radios. The other issue
will be how the radio achieves FM - if it does it swinging the crystal,
then this will impose another restriction on the PLL. While it is
possible to do (keep loop filter BW below min audio freq) I tried doing
this on a 2M design once - couldnt get it stable. Some radios phase
modulate one of the multipliers, which would avoid this issue.

R

Joel wrote:
I have a couple 6 channel public service radios that are in the 155Mhz
range. Some are synthesized and require cutting diodes to change the
frequency and that works out well.
But some are crystal controlled and with the cost and availability of
crystals it's cost prohibitive to re-crystal these radios. It looks like
these crystals are in the X9 mode so that puts them in the 16-16.5 MHz
range. I am considering building a VCO to inject a signal into the old
crystal socket to get around the crystal issue. Actually I figure a PIC to
program the PLL would be great. I'm just not sure what frequency to inject
into the old crystal socket. Should I build a 16mhz VCO or some harmonic?
Will injecting a signal into a crystal-less oscillator even work? I'm going
to use a ADF4110 PLL and a 16F89 PIC. Any suggestions for the VCO? Schematic
for a 16 MHz VCO?

Joe Loucka AG4QC



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Crystal replacement
 

The idea is we have a few dozen crystallized Maxon 4010's here and figured
we could get them converted to 2 meters to give to the new ham's in the
area. We would do the crystal route, but crystals seem to be in the $12.50
or more range (If you can even find them) That means it would be about 25
buck/channel. The price quickly makes conversion cost prohibitive compared
to a new 2 meter radio.

I reversed engineered the Maxon 3010 as they are synthesized and by cutting
diodes we have them working on 2 meters. Of course, having a schematic for
either radio would make things a lot easer.. (hint)..

Joe Loucka AG4QC



"Richard Hosking" wrote in message
...
If its for commercial use it would probably be easiest just to get the
crystals.
Otherwise designing a PLL system is possible - particularly if you want to
learn about them for your own education. But the work involved is not
trivial - probably not worth it for a few old radios. The other issue will
be how the radio achieves FM - if it does it swinging the crystal, then
this will impose another restriction on the PLL. While it is possible to
do (keep loop filter BW below min audio freq) I tried doing this on a 2M
design once - couldnt get it stable. Some radios phase modulate one of the
multipliers, which would avoid this issue.

R

Joel wrote:
I have a couple 6 channel public service radios that are in the 155Mhz
range. Some are synthesized and require cutting diodes to change the
frequency and that works out well.
But some are crystal controlled and with the cost and availability of
crystals it's cost prohibitive to re-crystal these radios. It looks like
these crystals are in the X9 mode so that puts them in the 16-16.5 MHz
range. I am considering building a VCO to inject a signal into the old
crystal socket to get around the crystal issue. Actually I figure a PIC
to program the PLL would be great. I'm just not sure what frequency to
inject into the old crystal socket. Should I build a 16mhz VCO or some
harmonic? Will injecting a signal into a crystal-less oscillator even
work? I'm going to use a ADF4110 PLL and a 16F89 PIC. Any suggestions
for the VCO? Schematic for a 16 MHz VCO?

Joe Loucka AG4QC ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Newsgroups
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Crystal replacement
 

Here's another idea...instead of making these radios to hand out to new
hams, maybe you could remove the transmit crystal and just replace the
receive crystal, lowering the conversion cost. You could hand these out
to NON-HAMS so they could listen in on the local repeater or simplex
channel. Maybe they would be interested in becoming hams. 2M HTs are
so cheap these days, just about any new ham can afford one with a lot of
bells and whistles built in.

Scott
N0EDV

Joel wrote:
The idea is we have a few dozen crystallized Maxon 4010's here and figured
we could get them converted to 2 meters to give to the new ham's in the
area. We would do the crystal route, but crystals seem to be in the $12.50
or more range (If you can even find them) That means it would be about 25
buck/channel. The price quickly makes conversion cost prohibitive compared
to a new 2 meter radio.

I reversed engineered the Maxon 3010 as they are synthesized and by cutting
diodes we have them working on 2 meters. Of course, having a schematic for
either radio would make things a lot easer.. (hint)..

Joe Loucka AG4QC



"Richard Hosking" wrote in message
...

If its for commercial use it would probably be easiest just to get the
crystals.
Otherwise designing a PLL system is possible - particularly if you want to
learn about them for your own education. But the work involved is not
trivial - probably not worth it for a few old radios. The other issue will
be how the radio achieves FM - if it does it swinging the crystal, then
this will impose another restriction on the PLL. While it is possible to
do (keep loop filter BW below min audio freq) I tried doing this on a 2M
design once - couldnt get it stable. Some radios phase modulate one of the
multipliers, which would avoid this issue.

R

Joel wrote:

I have a couple 6 channel public service radios that are in the 155Mhz
range. Some are synthesized and require cutting diodes to change the
frequency and that works out well.
But some are crystal controlled and with the cost and availability of
crystals it's cost prohibitive to re-crystal these radios. It looks like
these crystals are in the X9 mode so that puts them in the 16-16.5 MHz
range. I am considering building a VCO to inject a signal into the old
crystal socket to get around the crystal issue. Actually I figure a PIC
to program the PLL would be great. I'm just not sure what frequency to
inject into the old crystal socket. Should I build a 16mhz VCO or some
harmonic? Will injecting a signal into a crystal-less oscillator even
work? I'm going to use a ADF4110 PLL and a 16F89 PIC. Any suggestions
for the VCO? Schematic for a 16 MHz VCO?

Joe Loucka AG4QC ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----




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Crystal replacement
 

Scott,
I hear your point.. These are not HT's but 40 watt mobiles. I understand
how cheap HT's are and that's why I can't see spending much resources on the
conversion. But I'm always looking for new uses to implement PIC chips and
interfacing one to a synthesizer seemed like an inexpensive idea. PIC and
synthesizer cost together is barely 12 bucks.

Joe Loucka AG4QC

"Scott" wrote in message
...
Here's another idea...instead of making these radios to hand out to new
hams, maybe you could remove the transmit crystal and just replace the
receive crystal, lowering the conversion cost. You could hand these out
to NON-HAMS so they could listen in on the local repeater or simplex
channel. Maybe they would be interested in becoming hams. 2M HTs are so
cheap these days, just about any new ham can afford one with a lot of
bells and whistles built in.

Scott
N0EDV

Joel wrote:
The idea is we have a few dozen crystallized Maxon 4010's here and
figured we could get them converted to 2 meters to give to the new ham's
in the area. We would do the crystal route, but crystals seem to be in
the $12.50 or more range (If you can even find them) That means it would
be about 25 buck/channel. The price quickly makes conversion cost
prohibitive compared to a new 2 meter radio.

I reversed engineered the Maxon 3010 as they are synthesized and by
cutting diodes we have them working on 2 meters. Of course, having a
schematic for either radio would make things a lot easer.. (hint)..

Joe Loucka AG4QC



"Richard Hosking" wrote in message
...

If its for commercial use it would probably be easiest just to get the
crystals.
Otherwise designing a PLL system is possible - particularly if you want
to learn about them for your own education. But the work involved is not
trivial - probably not worth it for a few old radios. The other issue
will be how the radio achieves FM - if it does it swinging the crystal,
then this will impose another restriction on the PLL. While it is
possible to do (keep loop filter BW below min audio freq) I tried doing
this on a 2M design once - couldnt get it stable. Some radios phase
modulate one of the multipliers, which would avoid this issue.

R

Joel wrote:

I have a couple 6 channel public service radios that are in the 155Mhz
range. Some are synthesized and require cutting diodes to change the
frequency and that works out well.
But some are crystal controlled and with the cost and availability of
crystals it's cost prohibitive to re-crystal these radios. It looks like
these crystals are in the X9 mode so that puts them in the 16-16.5 MHz
range. I am considering building a VCO to inject a signal into the old
crystal socket to get around the crystal issue. Actually I figure a PIC
to program the PLL would be great. I'm just not sure what frequency to
inject into the old crystal socket. Should I build a 16mhz VCO or some
harmonic? Will injecting a signal into a crystal-less oscillator even
work? I'm going to use a ADF4110 PLL and a 16F89 PIC. Any suggestions
for the VCO? Schematic for a 16 MHz VCO?

Joe Loucka AG4QC ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
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=----




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Crystal replacement
 

Oh, oops...didn't realize they were a mobile rig! I would think you
might be able to find a suitable schematic for the PLL circuitry by
looking at the data sheets for some of the PLL ICs...such as...

http://www.jameco.com/wcsstore/Jamec.../246713MOT.pdf

Have you investigated using a DDS (Direct Digital Synthesizer) with a
PIC to control it?

Scott


Joel wrote:

Scott,
I hear your point.. These are not HT's but 40 watt mobiles. I understand
how cheap HT's are and that's why I can't see spending much resources on the
conversion. But I'm always looking for new uses to implement PIC chips and
interfacing one to a synthesizer seemed like an inexpensive idea. PIC and
synthesizer cost together is barely 12 bucks.

Joe Loucka AG4QC

"Scott" wrote in message
...

Here's another idea...instead of making these radios to hand out to new
hams, maybe you could remove the transmit crystal and just replace the
receive crystal, lowering the conversion cost. You could hand these out
to NON-HAMS so they could listen in on the local repeater or simplex
channel. Maybe they would be interested in becoming hams. 2M HTs are so
cheap these days, just about any new ham can afford one with a lot of
bells and whistles built in.

Scott
N0EDV

Joel wrote:

The idea is we have a few dozen crystallized Maxon 4010's here and
figured we could get them converted to 2 meters to give to the new ham's
in the area. We would do the crystal route, but crystals seem to be in
the $12.50 or more range (If you can even find them) That means it would
be about 25 buck/channel. The price quickly makes conversion cost
prohibitive compared to a new 2 meter radio.

I reversed engineered the Maxon 3010 as they are synthesized and by
cutting diodes we have them working on 2 meters. Of course, having a
schematic for either radio would make things a lot easer.. (hint)..

Joe Loucka AG4QC



"Richard Hosking" wrote in message
...


If its for commercial use it would probably be easiest just to get the
crystals.
Otherwise designing a PLL system is possible - particularly if you want
to learn about them for your own education. But the work involved is not
trivial - probably not worth it for a few old radios. The other issue
will be how the radio achieves FM - if it does it swinging the crystal,
then this will impose another restriction on the PLL. While it is
possible to do (keep loop filter BW below min audio freq) I tried doing
this on a 2M design once - couldnt get it stable. Some radios phase
modulate one of the multipliers, which would avoid this issue.

R

Joel wrote:


I have a couple 6 channel public service radios that are in the 155Mhz
range. Some are synthesized and require cutting diodes to change the
frequency and that works out well.
But some are crystal controlled and with the cost and availability of
crystals it's cost prohibitive to re-crystal these radios. It looks like
these crystals are in the X9 mode so that puts them in the 16-16.5 MHz
range. I am considering building a VCO to inject a signal into the old
crystal socket to get around the crystal issue. Actually I figure a PIC
to program the PLL would be great. I'm just not sure what frequency to
inject into the old crystal socket. Should I build a 16mhz VCO or some
harmonic? Will injecting a signal into a crystal-less oscillator even
work? I'm going to use a ADF4110 PLL and a 16F89 PIC. Any suggestions
for the VCO? Schematic for a 16 MHz VCO?

Joe Loucka AG4QC ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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=----




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Crystal replacement
 

Interestingly, that's exactly what I did.. I revered engineered the Maxon
3010 and have them working fine. Take a look at
http://www.w4fhu.org/maxon-3010.htm The Maxon 4010 looks the same from the
outside and it appears they started using them because they were probably
cheaper. But the 4010's are crystal controlled and that's where I began.
Yup, I DO plan on using a PIC and PLL or DDS. Actually the 3010's have the
same chip you referenced at Jamco (As you can see from my webpage, above)..
I was hoping to use a more modern chip but they all seem to be in the TTSOP
format. Actually, I would love to use the AD9835 DDS but again, it's in
this TTSOP format and not conductive to homebrewing. Sure I can solder the
chip to a ckt board, but I'm not about to have a cktboard made up for a few
copies and then find out I made a mistake because I can't really try it
before hand. Sort of a catch-22. I am now starting to think about creating a
pc board for just the chip to be able to bring out the leads to make them
more available for breadboarding. I like the idea of them being in small
packages as it cuts down on stray inductances and so on, so sure I'll use
them once I have a proven ckt. Ah, lets see what else I can whine about..
LOL
Joe Loucka AG4QC

"Scott" wrote in message
...
Oh, oops...didn't realize they were a mobile rig! I would think you might
be able to find a suitable schematic for the PLL circuitry by looking at
the data sheets for some of the PLL ICs...such as...

http://www.jameco.com/wcsstore/Jamec.../246713MOT.pdf

Have you investigated using a DDS (Direct Digital Synthesizer) with a PIC
to control it?

Scott


Joel wrote:

Scott,
I hear your point.. These are not HT's but 40 watt mobiles. I understand
how cheap HT's are and that's why I can't see spending much resources on
the conversion. But I'm always looking for new uses to implement PIC
chips and interfacing one to a synthesizer seemed like an inexpensive
idea. PIC and synthesizer cost together is barely 12 bucks.

Joe Loucka AG4QC

"Scott" wrote in message
...

Here's another idea...instead of making these radios to hand out to new
hams, maybe you could remove the transmit crystal and just replace the
receive crystal, lowering the conversion cost. You could hand these out
to NON-HAMS so they could listen in on the local repeater or simplex
channel. Maybe they would be interested in becoming hams. 2M HTs are so
cheap these days, just about any new ham can afford one with a lot of
bells and whistles built in.

Scott
N0EDV

Joel wrote:

The idea is we have a few dozen crystallized Maxon 4010's here and
figured we could get them converted to 2 meters to give to the new ham's
in the area. We would do the crystal route, but crystals seem to be in
the $12.50 or more range (If you can even find them) That means it would
be about 25 buck/channel. The price quickly makes conversion cost
prohibitive compared to a new 2 meter radio.

I reversed engineered the Maxon 3010 as they are synthesized and by
cutting diodes we have them working on 2 meters. Of course, having a
schematic for either radio would make things a lot easer.. (hint)..

Joe Loucka AG4QC



"Richard Hosking" wrote in message
...


If its for commercial use it would probably be easiest just to get the
crystals.
Otherwise designing a PLL system is possible - particularly if you want
to learn about them for your own education. But the work involved is
not trivial - probably not worth it for a few old radios. The other
issue will be how the radio achieves FM - if it does it swinging the
crystal, then this will impose another restriction on the PLL. While it
is possible to do (keep loop filter BW below min audio freq) I tried
doing this on a 2M design once - couldnt get it stable. Some radios
phase modulate one of the multipliers, which would avoid this issue.

R

Joel wrote:


I have a couple 6 channel public service radios that are in the 155Mhz
range. Some are synthesized and require cutting diodes to change the
frequency and that works out well.
But some are crystal controlled and with the cost and availability of
crystals it's cost prohibitive to re-crystal these radios. It looks
like these crystals are in the X9 mode so that puts them in the
16-16.5 MHz range. I am considering building a VCO to inject a signal
into the old crystal socket to get around the crystal issue. Actually
I figure a PIC to program the PLL would be great. I'm just not sure
what frequency to inject into the old crystal socket. Should I build a
16mhz VCO or some harmonic? Will injecting a signal into a
crystal-less oscillator even work? I'm going to use a ADF4110 PLL and
a 16F89 PIC. Any suggestions for the VCO? Schematic for a 16 MHz VCO?

Joe Loucka AG4QC ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
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=----




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=----




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