Would like your opinions on amateur licensing someone who had nearly 20
years military experience as a radio operator (in my opinion, a
professional) ? I have worked HF, VHF, UHF, SHF, SATCOM, AM, FM, CW, etc.
I even did some time with Mystic Star for AF One and Two.

--
Chappie

wrote in message
.. .
Would like your opinions on amateur licensing someone who had nearly 20
years military experience as a radio operator (in my opinion, a
professional) ? I have worked HF, VHF, UHF, SHF, SATCOM, AM, FM, CW, etc.
I even did some time with Mystic Star for AF One and Two.

--
Chappie
Not wishing to belittle your vast experiance and professional abilities, I
believe it is better to be an amateur because the difference, in my opinion,
is that a professional must do what they have to do while following the
rules, while an amateur has the freedom to do whatever he/she likes while
keeping within the rules.
--
Norman, ZS2RI

On Feb 27, 9:16�pm, "Norman Perelson" wrote:
wrote in message

.. . Would like your opinions on amateur licensing someone who had nearly 20
years military experience as a radio operator (in my opinion, a
professional) ? *I have worked HF, VHF, UHF, SHF, SATCOM, AM, FM, CW, etc.
I even did some time with Mystic Star for AF One and Two.

--
Chappie

Not wishing to belittle your vast experiance and professional abilities, I
believe it is better to be an amateur because the difference, in my opinion,
is that a professional must do what they have to do while following the
rules, while an amateur has the freedom to do whatever he/she likes while
keeping within the rules.
--
Norman, ZS2RI

I think that neither is "better" than the other. Experience as
a professional may or may not transfer well to amateur,
and vice versa, for a number of reasons:

1) Professionals often do not have to pay for their equipment,
training or other expenses. When they do,
it's an expense of doing business. Amateurs almost
always have to pay for everything out of their own
pockets.That difference in resources makes a lot of difference in
practice. A lot of things that are standard
practice in, say, military radio are simply not affordable
for most amateurs.

2) There are big differences in the time, space and
other resources available to professionals vs. amateurs.

3) There is always a "command structure" in place for
professionals. It may be in the form of a company
organization chart, or a military chain of command, or
simply keeping the customer satisfied. Amateurs have
a completely different situation.

4) Professionals are paid, amateurs are volunteers, which
means they need to be managed in different ways.

5) Most of all, when it comes to something like radio, the
goals are usually completely different. To the professional, radio is
a means to an end. To the amateur, radio is an
end in itself.

IMHO, the whole thing becomes an apples-and-oranges
comparison.

73 de Jim, N2EY

From: on Wed 28 Feb 2007 08:20

On Feb 27, 9:16�pm, "Norman Perelson" wrote:

years military experience as a radio operator (in my opinion, a
professional) ? I have worked HF, VHF, UHF, SHF, SATCOM, AM, FM, CW, etc.
I even did some time with Mystic Star for AF One and Two.

--
Chappie

Not wishing to belittle your vast experiance and professional abilities, I
believe it is better to be an amateur because the difference, in my opinion,
is that a professional must do what they have to do while following the
rules, while an amateur has the freedom to do whatever he/she likes while
keeping within the rules.
--
Norman, ZS2RI

I think that neither is "better" than the other. Experience as
a professional may or may not transfer well to amateur,
and vice versa, for a number of reasons:

1) Professionals often do not have to pay for their equipment,
training or other expenses.

Not a universal truism. The state-of-the-art in ALL
electronics ("radio" is a subset of that) keeps changing
and the professionals have to keep up by constant study
and information input lest they become non-professional
(as in very unpaid). College-University training of
the 1980s and before (especially before) cannot prepare
anyone for anything but the basics of electronics.

When they do, it's an expense of doing business.

Not a universal truism. "Business" is not always
obliging in making a profit sufficient to allow
perquisites of paid-for continuing education for
those below the CEOs and their staff.

Amateurs almost
always have to pay for everything out of their own
pockets.

Of course. That is why the FCC defines "amateur
radio" as not having a pecuniary interest. :-)

On the other hand, the USA has a number of amateur
radio products and services businesses who depend
very much on their "pecuniary interst" to survive,
keep eating, and have shelter and clothing.

That difference in resources makes a lot of difference in
practice.

Perhaps. On the other hand, there seems to be a
sizeable market for amateur radio equipment that
can easily reach multiple thousands of dollars in
value for each amateur station. See any issue of
QST or CQ for ads and pictures of "ham shacks"
within them...

A lot of things that are standard
practice in, say, military radio are simply not affordable
for most amateurs.

The military have the very basic requirement of
defending their country...with their lives, if
necessary. I don't know of ANY nation which
requires the Ultimate Sacrifice for amateur radio.

Military radio equipment is required to work over
extremes of environmental conditions that would
disable consumer-market radios...even "high-end"
commercial amateur radio equipment.

2) There are big differences in the time, space and
other resources available to professionals vs. amateurs.

Yes, if the professionals work for Fortune 500
companies in regards to monetary budgets. To
attempt doing the same in the average small
business is financial folly. :-)

As to "space and resources," professional-
commercial radio equipment MUST operate on
different spectrum space, MUST use reliable
modes to preform services, yet be WITHIN
very finite budget constraints. [been there,
got the cheap T-shirt...:-)]

Is there a real difference on radio operation
from say, a USN destroyer radio room versus a
private sailing vessel? Yes, the sailboat
cabin is generally more comfortable. :-)

Is there much difference between a Taxicab
mid-[business]-band two-way radio operation
mobile at work with an amateur radio mobile
2m transceiver operation while going to work?
Yes, the private vehicle is generally more
comfortable and the amateur is not stuck on
just one or a few channels as in the taxi.

3) There is always a "command structure" in place for
professionals. It may be in the form of a company
organization chart, or a military chain of command, or
simply keeping the customer satisfied.

Yes, professionals have to stay within the
"command structure" or find themselves no
longer employed (therefore NON-professionals).
On the other hand, radio amateurs with spouses
and/or family are in the SAME personal "command
structure" as any professional with personal
spouse and/or family.

"Simply keeping the customer satisfied" is NOT
so "simple." Having done that too, I have to
express some disagreement with that rather
flippant remark.

Military radio might be classified as being in
an entirely different universe as to its "chain
of command." In the USA the Department of
Defense regulates military radio use (with
some support of the NTIA) and is not obligated
to directly obey regulations put forth by the
FCC. Contrary to what some have said elsewhere,
MARS is directed by the US DoD; MARS accepts the
volunteer efforts of US radio amateurs but does
not operate within US amateur radio bands nor
does it use similar protocols in communications.

Amateurs have
a completely different situation.

Yes and no. Regardless of the human legislatures'
law, ALL elecrons, fields, and waves operate
according to laws of physics. That means that
the technology of ALL radio, "amateur" included
have a very common bond of functioning. USE is
different but then such use is also different
between differing commercial-professional radio
services in the USA.

4) Professionals are paid, amateurs are volunteers, which
means they need to be managed in different ways.

In the USA the FCC regulates BOTH civil professional
radio AND amateur and personal radio services. The
FCC also licenses both amateur and professional
radio operators where a professional radio service
requires operator licensing. The difference in
operator licensing is small...COLEMs perform exams
for professional operator licenses and VECs do that
for amateur radio licenses. The FCC can test both
as it wishes...and is the final arbiter on that.

5) Most of all, when it comes to something like radio, the
goals are usually completely different. To the professional, radio is
a means to an end. To the amateur, radio is an end in itself.

Yes and no. A large number of professionals in
electronics (and radio) that I have worked with
are very satisfied to remain as pros without ever
obtaining any amateur radio license or even
operating any radio (except a cell or cordless
telephone) their whole life. To the few people
I've met in high positions of professional
activities, business is an "end in itself."

On the other hand, I've met a large number of
radio amateurs who have other, non-radio, even non-
electronic hobby interests OTHER than amateur radio.

IMHO, the whole thing becomes an apples-and-oranges
comparison.

Both apples and oranges are fruit of trees. They
differ only in shape, texture, color, taste, and
digestibility. Humans have cross-bred both for new
varieties suitable for human consumption. Neither
one nor their varieties grow or ripen by laws of
physics but rather by natural laws of chemistry.

"Radio" has evolved greatly in its 111-year life as
a medium of communication. Evolution has happened
through a combination of technological arts, human
use, and various legislations on that use. In my
opinion there is very little comparison between the
"radio" of today and that of "radio" of 70 years
ago. Trying to freeze evolution in midway of its
evolution, holding absolutely to human-derived
protocols and standards of that mid-point is a real
danger to that evolutionary process.

Obviously, others disagree with that opinion. So
be it.

" wrote in
oups.com:


"Radio" has evolved greatly in its 111-year life as
a medium of communication. Evolution has happened


I'm not sure if anyone answered Norman's question or not, so I'll
take a stab at it.

Norman, I suspect that you will find yourself perfectly happy as an
amateur, and would suggest that you go for your license. You will not only
be able to operate - and be in fsmilisr territory - but you will also have
the ability to build and modify equipment, antennas and a lot of other
freedoms as an amateur. Your experience may also come in very handy if you
are interested in emergency comms.

Looking forward to hearning you announce your licensing here some
day. 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On 28 Feb 2007 19:23:21 -0500, "
wrote:

In my
opinion there is very little comparison between the
"radio" of today and that of "radio" of 70 years
ago. Trying to freeze evolution in midway of its
evolution, holding absolutely to human-derived
protocols and standards of that mid-point is a real
danger to that evolutionary process.

Obviously, others disagree with that opinion. So
be it.

Believe it or not, Len, I agree with that.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
36...
" wrote in
oups.com:


"Radio" has evolved greatly in its 111-year life as
a medium of communication. Evolution has happened


I'm not sure if anyone answered Norman's question or not, so I'll
take a stab at it.

Norman, I suspect that you will find yourself perfectly happy as an
amateur, and would suggest that you go for your license. You will not only
be able to operate - and be in fsmilisr territory - but you will also have
the ability to build and modify equipment, antennas and a lot of other
freedoms as an amateur. Your experience may also come in very handy if you
are interested in emergency comms.

Looking forward to hearning you announce your licensing here some
day. 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Actually it was Chappie who made the original post with the question. (I've
been a licenced amateur for nearly 43 years.) But I fully agree with your
answer.
--
73 de Norman ZS2RI

Norman Perelson wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message

Looking forward to hearning you announce your licensing here some
day. 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Actually it was Chappie who made the original post with the question. (I've
been a licenced amateur for nearly 43 years.) But I fully agree with your
answer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction Norman. So your one of the new guys,
eh? Chappie might take some note of that too - that there are a lot of
Hams who have been intrigued by the hobby that they have stayed in it
for so long... What a hobby!

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -