"xpyttl" writes:

Amateur radio is an incredibly diverse hobby. The suggestion on reading up
is a good one, the suggestion on looking at clubs is a good one, but they
really won't give you a very complete view.

Most clubs have some area they gravitate toward. There are many areas of
amateur radio that aren't well served by local clubs, either because the
activity isn't amenable to the club model, or because a local area just
can't support enough amateurs interested in that particular niche.

Many amateurs on a budget are into QRP, and many QRPers are into building.
Now, don't get misled into thinking that building stuff is cheaper. Until
you have built up a good junk box, it tends to be more expensive. However,
the hours of enjoyment might well make it inexpensive on an hours of fun per
dollar basis. It won't be cheaper on a watts per dollar basis.

Yeah, a couple of months back I was looking into buying an HF rig to
see if I could have some fun with that, and most of the rigs in my
price range looked like they were QRP oriented. Though I _do_ have a
great assortment of computer parts lying around, I'm not sure many of
them would be useful in building my own rig

Some have suggested looking for a boatanchor. Personally, I don't enjoy
this, and like building, it isn't as cheap as it sounds. *BUT*, if you get
to thinking about buying used gear, go to ebay and study the "completed
auctions". While I feel a little uncomfortable about buying a used rig
sight unseen, the completed auctions section of eBay gives you a clue as to
what a particular rig is worth, and what affects its value. I should mention
that although I would rather put my hands on a rig before I buy it, I have
bought a few things on eBay and have never been burned. There are a few bad
actors out there, but generally hams are a likeable lot. Also, don't be
afraid to look at new rigs. Many decent used rigs sell for almost as much
as new. If there is a huge difference, there is probably a reason. Find
someone to talk to about the particular thing that interests you.

Honestly, since I have no idea what I'm really interested in still,
I'm way leary of buying used equipment, particularly over e-bay. I'm
just not sure what I want/need/will use. So I hear you on this one.
"Try before you buy" sounds mighty nice.

Many clubs are into public service. This is another area where you can get
a lot of fun for your buck. In this case, typically all you need is an HT.
Most clubs that do this are more than able to provide you with any necessary
training, and these activities can be a lot of fun.

Most amateurs feel that emergency response is part of their responsibility,
although most aren't willing to pay their dues. If you think emergency
response is part of your interest, you MUST find your local EC and get
involved with your local ARES or RACES group. In this day an age, you must
also pass some FEMA courses to be eligible. Hams who show up at a scene
with a rig and no training are part of the problem rather than the solution.

Due to family circumstances, time is kind of a scarce commodity right
now, too. However, ARES and RACES have sounded appealing to me in the
past. Thanks for the tip on the FEMA courses. I'll have to check
into those, as well.

Speaking of ARES, your statewide amateur organization needs leaders --
doesn't matter what state you are in. Volunteering your time to make
amateur radio better is one of the more enjoyable aspects of the hobby to
some, and is also one of the less expensive. Every section has dozens of
positions that need to be filled. They range from emcomm positions to
public information, to technical coordination to observer. Lots and lots to
be done.

Of course, there are plenty of operating only activities ... rag chewing,
DXing, contesting, etc. your Tech license gives you full access to the
space above 50 MHz, and there is a lot of territory there for
experimentation, if that is what floats your boat.

A lot of hams (at least here locally) thinking of moving beyond VHF seem to
feel they need a DC to daylight rig. This is certainly the high priced
spread. The rig can often be a minor problem; getting an antenna up in the
air that can do a decent job across a wide range of bands can be a bit of a
challenge, too. And unless you get into contesting, the reality is that you
will only operate on a couple of bands. Single band rigs can be many times
less expensive than the fancy rice boxes. Try to understand what sorts of
things sound interesting and look at satisfying only those needs if you are
on a budget.

Most importantly, though, find some local folks to chat with. This is where
a club can be handy. Even if a club is very focused on some particular
niche, there will be a few folks with other interests. Find out who they
are and knock some talk out of them.

..


Thanks for the tips.

-Paul, KC8IGJ

"Paul Huff" wrote in message
.. .
"xpyttl" writes:

Yeah, a couple of months back I was looking into buying an HF rig to
see if I could have some fun with that, and most of the rigs in my
price range looked like they were QRP oriented. Though I _do_ have a
great assortment of computer parts lying around, I'm not sure many of
them would be useful in building my own rig

According to my map, it's just over 3 hours from your QTH to FDIM. Go to
http://www.qrparci.org and sign up for the Thursday events. There will be a
paper on micros in homebrewing. There will also be a bunch of great papers.
The FDIM activities on Thursday are so good you are kind of disappointed
when Friday comes around and it's time for Hamvention! If you can't afford
to do the whole, four-day gig, don't miss Thursday.

You are pretty close to the two best hamfests around, Dayton in May and
Findlay in September. Dayton is kind of a zoo, but there is noplace with so
much stuff, and so much opportunity to see stuff. Findlay is far smaller,
and far more laid back. It is almost the anti-Dayton. Perhaps for that
reason, it is the most enjoyable hamfest. But nothing beats the day before
Dayton!

Dee mentioned that you should go ahead and get your FRN. This isn't too
hard and you can do it right away. Once you have it, you won't believe how
easy it is to renew.

...

xpyttl wrote:

According to my map, it's just over 3 hours from your QTH to FDIM. Go to
http://www.qrparci.org and sign up for the Thursday events. There will be a
paper on micros in homebrewing. There will also be a bunch of great papers.
The FDIM activities on Thursday are so good you are kind of disappointed
when Friday comes around and it's time for Hamvention! If you can't afford
to do the whole, four-day gig, don't miss Thursday.

You are pretty close to the two best hamfests around, Dayton in May and
Findlay in September. Dayton is kind of a zoo, but there is noplace with so
much stuff, and so much opportunity to see stuff. Findlay is far smaller,
and far more laid back. It is almost the anti-Dayton. Perhaps for that
reason, it is the most enjoyable hamfest. But nothing beats the day before
Dayton!


Getting on the air on a budget:


Go to a hamfest and pick up one of the older radios. There are some
deals to be had with old hybrid radios. Kenwood made some really nice
ones. There are some old Yaesu hybrids out there also. Of course, if you
get lucky, there are some deals on more modern ones also. I picked up an
Icom IC-745 for 250 dollars at a hamfest.

Next get a tuner. MFJ makes some decent HF tuners, and used are pretty
inexpensive.

Get some ladder line, enough to make it from the shack to wherever your
antenna is going to be.

Put up as much wire as you can. Feed it, and tune it.

My original setup cost me less than 350 dollars to get on the air, and
I had 80-10 meter operation (160 too if I didn't mind poor performance.


Note: If you want to go REALLY cheap, I picked up a couple of the old
single sidebander Heathkits at Dayton last year, mainly to learn about
tube radios. 20 Bucks apiece, and they worked. One band only per radio -
I got 40 and 80 meters.

Dayton is indeed a zoo, but it's a fun zoo.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Michael Coslo wrote:

Getting on the air on a budget:

Go to a hamfest and pick up one of the older radios. There are some
deals to be had with old hybrid radios. Kenwood made some really nice
ones. There are some old Yaesu hybrids out there also. Of course, if you
get lucky, there are some deals on more modern ones also. I picked up an
Icom IC-745 for 250 dollars at a hamfest.

Your advice got me to thinking. What are the advantages and
disadvantages of buying ham gear at a hamfest, versus buying it on eBay
or via the various classified ads?

There's no doubt that going to a hamfest is fun. It's a place to meet
people, see equipment (both old and new), and generally have a rich
social and learning experience. There's likely to be some interesting
gear for sale, especially at the larger events. You can see what you're
buying, and you don't have to worry about shipping (or the seller just
taking your money and not sending the gear).

But buying via eBay or classified ad has its advantages, too. You can
research the features of the rig, using things like the eHam reviews, to
be sure that it really meets your needs. If you're willing to wait,
there's a more complete selection of equipment, so if you're in the
market for something specific you're more likely to find it. You can
check recent sales to build an idea of a "fair price".

I'm a bit hesitant to suggest to a new ham that they go to a hamfest and
buy equipment. I'm afraid that the equipment-buying experience at a
hamfest is too intimidating to a new ham. It requires more knowledge of
what's what, and how to size up what's a good deal, than most new hams
possess. Now if they have a buddy to help them, that's different.

Which gets us back to the point that several have made in this thread --
the importance of making contact with the local ham community.

73, Steve KB9X

Steve Bonine wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:

Getting on the air on a budget:

Go to a hamfest and pick up one of the older radios. There are
some deals to be had with old hybrid radios. Kenwood made some really
nice ones. There are some old Yaesu hybrids out there also. Of course,
if you get lucky, there are some deals on more modern ones also. I
picked up an Icom IC-745 for 250 dollars at a hamfest.

Your advice got me to thinking. What are the advantages and
disadvantages of buying ham gear at a hamfest, versus buying it on eBay
or via the various classified ads?

I've had two experiences on Ebay. One buying, and one selling. Both were
bad. When buying, the stuff wasn't as advertised, and under selling, the
buyer never showed up. Leaving bad feedback isn't much in compensation.

There's no doubt that going to a hamfest is fun. It's a place to meet
people, see equipment (both old and new), and generally have a rich
social and learning experience. There's likely to be some interesting
gear for sale, especially at the larger events. You can see what you're
buying, and you don't have to worry about shipping (or the seller just
taking your money and not sending the gear).

I simply love going to Hamfests. The socializing is fun. Lots of bad
food to eat too! Lots of interesting people to watch. If I had one
complaint, it is that Hamfests are similar to flea markets in that they
are starting earlier and earlier. Dayton is one exception, except for
Sunday morning.


But buying via eBay or classified ad has its advantages, too. You can
research the features of the rig, using things like the eHam reviews, to
be sure that it really meets your needs. If you're willing to wait,
there's a more complete selection of equipment, so if you're in the
market for something specific you're more likely to find it. You can
check recent sales to build an idea of a "fair price".

My XYL has a rule that I like. "On presently manufactured radios, if it
isn't 50 percent off new, buy new." On older stuff, if you can't see and
touch it, let someone else have it. Nothing like that warranty for me.

Collectors will have a different outlook, of course.

Your point about Eham is excellent, Steve. In fact, I would suggest
anyone who is interested in getting equipment should browse through
their reviews. I've spent more than a few entire evenings at their site.
I would note to the prospective buyers that they read the reviews in
addition to looking at overall ratings. There are some Hams out there
who never met a radio they didn't like! ;^) And a few who are really picky.


I'm a bit hesitant to suggest to a new ham that they go to a hamfest and
buy equipment. I'm afraid that the equipment-buying experience at a
hamfest is too intimidating to a new ham. It requires more knowledge of
what's what, and how to size up what's a good deal, than most new hams
possess. Now if they have a buddy to help them, that's different.

Yup, It's always good to have an Elmer with you until you learn the ropes.

The Hamfest also has one experience that I really love - even if some
don't - the discussion driving the sale. I just love that give and take
with the person selling the equipment. Unfortunately, some sellers don't
do this, but when I "lock horns" with a seller that knows how to deal,
we both have a great time.

Which gets us back to the point that several have made in this thread --
the importance of making contact with the local ham community.

And how!


- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Michael Coslo wrote:
Steve Bonine wrote:

I've had two experiences on Ebay. One buying, and one selling. Both were
bad. When buying, the stuff wasn't as advertised, and under selling, the
buyer never showed up. Leaving bad feedback isn't much in compensation.

I'm sorry to hear this. I've had perhaps a half dozen experiences with
eBay, all buying, and not all fo this was ham gear. I've never been
disappointed. I picked up an absolutely gorgeous Vibroplex bug, and the
seller packed it such that it could have been delivered by catapult and
would have arrived intact.

The moral of the story, I think, is that there are both good and bad
experiences to be had any time you buy anything. I've had bad
experiences related to buying new stuff, too. There's a lot you can do
to reduce the probability of getting burned, but it can never be reduced
to zero. The alternative is to never buy anything, and that's no fun
either.

I simply love going to Hamfests. The socializing is fun. Lots of bad
food to eat too! Lots of interesting people to watch.

You mean the guys who have more radios hanging from various parts of
their body than I even own? grin

The one thing that depresses me about attending hamfests is observing
the aging ham population and the lack of diversity. I can't shake the
thought that these events won't be around in another decade because so
many of the attendees will be too old to be there.

My XYL has a rule that I like. "On presently manufactured radios, if
it isn't 50 percent off new, buy new."

I like that. I continue to be amazed at some of the items that sell on
eBay for more money than it would cost to buy them new. Not ham gear so
much, but with beekeeping equipment it is truly amazing. I've checked
some completed sales and compared prices for known items with the price
listed in the current catalog, leaving me just shaking my head.

On older stuff, if you can't see
and touch it, let someone else have it. Nothing like that warranty for me.

The warranty is certainly worth a lot, as is the simple fact that the
gear is coming directly from the factory and you know it hasn't been
abused. But sometimes with the older stuff, seeing doesn't really help
that much since it's unlikely you'll actually be able to apply power and
do a smoke test. I'm never enthusiastic about buying a piece of gear at
a hamfest (for other than parts) after hearing the seller utter those
magic words, "Oh, it works great."

Your point about Eham is excellent, Steve. In fact, I would suggest
anyone who is interested in getting equipment should browse through
their reviews. I've spent more than a few entire evenings at their site.
I would note to the prospective buyers that they read the reviews in
addition to looking at overall ratings. There are some Hams out there
who never met a radio they didn't like! ;^) And a few who are really picky.

Oh, absolutely. The individual reviews are by far the most valuable,
but you do have to read with a grain of salt. You have to judge whether
the specific piece of equipment might have been a lemon, or perhaps the
person who wrote the review was the lemon. And you're right; some
people never met a radio that they didn't like. But nothing beats the
real-world experience.

The Hamfest also has one experience that I really love - even if
some don't - the discussion driving the sale. I just love that give and
take with the person selling the equipment. Unfortunately, some sellers
don't do this, but when I "lock horns" with a seller that knows how to
deal, we both have a great time.

Yep, I understand, having watched my wife enjoy that experience many
times, especially in foreign countries. But it's not one that I enjoy.
Different strokes for different folks.

One of the options I didn't think about until after I submitted the
original article is buying used gear at a commercial ham radio store.
If I did that, I would insist on the right to bring back the specific
piece of equipment for full credit on another purchase within some
period of time, perhaps 90 days. I don't know if the stores do that
these days, but it seems reasonable to me, and would provide an
advantage to buying the gear through the store as opposed to directly
from the owner.

73, Steve KB9X

Michael Coslo wrote:


I've had two experiences on Ebay. One buying, and one selling. Both were
bad. When buying, the stuff wasn't as advertised, and under selling, the
buyer never showed up. Leaving bad feedback isn't much in compensation.

I've also had a couple of experiences on E-bay, I sold a refrigerator,
was a good experience, and I tried my absolute best to cancel a bid once
with no luck--a very bad experience.

snip

My XYL has a rule that I like. "On presently manufactured radios, if
it isn't 50 percent off new, buy new." On older stuff, if you can't see
and touch it, let someone else have it. Nothing like that warranty for me.

I grew up on a farm/ranch out side of "classic-smalltown", Texas.
Everything we got we ordered from either Sears or Montgomery Ward;
Shoes, shirts, basic household equipment as well as farm equipment was
all ordered mail-order.

At times we got what we wanted, other times we didn't--even from big
name stores such as Sears or Wards. Then we'd have to box the items
back up and send them back for credit... wait for the credit paperwork
(refund check) to arrive and then re-place the order. This could take
weeks and you're walking around in shoes with holes in them--for instance.

That's when I decided that I wanted to try-on what I buy--be it clothes,
or any sort of equipment. I want to turn it on, twist the knobs and
take it for some sort of test drive.

I try to always buy new, although I've only had one new HF radio since
I've been a ham. I've had new handy's for VHF/UHF and new VHF/UHF
mobiles but only one new HF, the rest have been used, and I'd been much
better off getting new then.

For years I would not even consider getting on HF because each and every
time I went to get on HF my 'used' radio would not work, I'd have to fix it.

I had not been on HF since 2001 and in 2006 I decided to try HF again,
and true to form, I turned on my HF rig and one of the large caps in the
PA decided to explode... and I mean explode.

I turned around and bought a new HF rig the very next day. I made more
contacts in the next week than I'd made in the previous eight years
total. Mainly because I didn't have to work on the radio to make it work.

Working on the radio each time I wanted to tune up took all of the fun
out of radio for me, for I wanted to do on HF what I was able to do on
VHF/UHF; i.e.: talk.

Now, I'm HF active as well as VHF/UHF and I'm really having a good time
on the bands.

Collectors will have a different outlook, of course.

This is what I can agree with, if you're only going to use it to put on
display, then that's what it would be for.


Your point about Eham is excellent, Steve. In fact, I would suggest
anyone who is interested in getting equipment should browse through
their reviews. I've spent more than a few entire evenings at their site.
I would note to the prospective buyers that they read the reviews in
addition to looking at overall ratings. There are some Hams out there
who never met a radio they didn't like! ;^) And a few who are really picky.


Same here.


Russ - KW5KW

Steve Bonine wrote:

Which gets us back to the point that several have made in this thread --
the importance of making contact with the local ham community.

I forgot to mention this in my last post, but Paul, if you were heading
out to Dayton, we could arrange to meet and look at some of that old
equipment if you needed some buying guidance.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -