"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


Respectfully, I would suggest that you start the new organization,
Klystron.




I would suggest that you start the process of forming a new
organization.


Mike,

These suggestions to "go start your own organization" from you and other
sources strikes most debaters as dismissive sophistry.

ARRL has on the order of many millions of dollars and over 100,000 loyal
members, making your position obviously untenable. Except perhaps on
some narrowly defined issue, the idea that "xxx" ("Klystron"?) could
challenge that pervasive influence by "forming a new organization" is
absurd on its face. We have a new fresh arena here in
rec.radio.moderated to engage in fair discussion and debate of ham
issues. Please don't debase this new newsgroup with messages of such
patronizing tone.

In contrast, I thought that the suggestions from K3FU to "change the
system from within" far more realistic and with more reasonable chances
for success by an individual or relatvely-smaller-than-ARRL groups of
people.

The Man in the Maze
QRL on Baboquivari Peak, AZ

--
Iitoi


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Iitoi wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

Respectfully, I would suggest that you start the new organization,
Klystron.


I would suggest that you start the process of forming a new
organization.

Mike,

These suggestions to "go start your own organization" from you and other
sources strikes most debaters as dismissive sophistry.

I'm not certain about the sophistry part. But it could be considered
dismissive from my experience in amateur radio as well as life.

There are doers, and there are those who talk about doing things. I
really don't think this person is going to do anything about the
egregious wrongs s/he sees coming from Newington.



ARRL has on the order of many millions of dollars and over 100,000 loyal
members, making your position obviously untenable. Except perhaps on
some narrowly defined issue, the idea that "xxx" ("Klystron"?) could
challenge that pervasive influence by "forming a new organization" is
absurd on its face.

Why? I'm not naive enough to believe that Klystron is going to form an
organization and topple the ARRL in a year. But all organizations are
formed of men and women who want to do something. They all have to start
somewhere.

If enough people are as "alienated" as he says, it should be possible
to compete however, and build a new alternative to ARRL membership. I've
given enough reasons that I don't think it will work, but I don't mind
being proven wrong.


We have a new fresh arena here in
rec.radio.moderated to engage in fair discussion and debate of ham
issues.

Discussion is great, discussion is good. Without someone actually doing
something, it doesn't accomplish much.

I'm much more impressed by discussion followed by action. Sad to say,
there isn't much of that.

When someone gets in a leadership position, they are often assailed by
other folks who know just exactly what is "wrong". I've had people
haranguing me for hours, and evening visits at the front door from
people who want to bend my ear to correct some egregious wrong they have
suffered.

Those who complain the loudest, and who have the biggest punch list of
"things that I have to do", always things that will benefit the person
making the demands to the detriment of everyone else, have one thing in
common - the second I ask them for help, They disappear.

Please don't debase this new newsgroup with messages of such
patronizing tone.

My message is pretty simple. Take away all the "sophistry" and it is:

- "If you don't like what is happening, get involved. Change it."


I hope that no one thinks that is a bad idea! 8^)

Talk is pretty inexpensive, action is what gets things done. Many people
really dislike that message.


In contrast, I thought that the suggestions from K3FU to "change the
system from within" far more realistic and with more reasonable chances
for success by an individual or relatvely-smaller-than-ARRL groups of
people.

Of course. Perhaps "Klystron" would like to join the ARRL and work
his/her way up through the ranks and if enough people agree with
Klystron, change will be made. Now that's good advice!

But at the same time I would say "If it is so bad, start your own
organization" is also good advice.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

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In Michael Coslo writes:

Iitoi wrote:

[...]

In contrast, I thought that the suggestions from K3FU to "change the
system from within" far more realistic and with more reasonable chances
for success by an individual or relatvely-smaller-than-ARRL groups of
people.

Of course. Perhaps "Klystron" would like to join the ARRL and work
his/her way up through the ranks and if enough people agree with
Klystron, change will be made. Now that's good advice!

But at the same time I would say "If it is so bad, start your own
organization" is also good advice.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

For the record, I agree that Mike's alternative is valid also. If you
want to change the largest amateur radio membership organization in the
U.S., consider getting involved in its elected leadership. If you feel
that that's not possible for some reason, then help create an
alternative. A little healthy competition can be a good thing, also.
As I hinted at previously, this involves leadership, trust, and
certainly even a bit of marketing. Sometimes the suggester is the best
initiator, because he has the most passion, and stake in the outcome.

There's many alternatives. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. What
is your choice?

More to the point, there's been lots of talk on this issue over the
years, but very little substantive action. Talk is extremely cheap.
For some topics that have been beaten to death over the years, without
practical solutions being offered, sometimes talk is too cheap for the
valuable time of others, including the readers of this newsgroup.

- --
73, Paul W. Schleck, K3FU

http://www.novia.net/~pschleck/
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