Forty Years Licensed
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:34:11 EDT, Michael Coslo wrote:
At least with the band plans, the better question for the test would be to see if the testee knew where to look them up. Another approach would be to have a sample chart with the segments labeled by their emission designators, such as A1A or J3E, and ask for the segment allowed to Phone or Morse, or Data, etc. This would be independent of "real life" band plans or regulations, which are subject to frequent changes, and would test another phase of the knowledge of The Compleat Ham. The California Bar Exam does just that - they give you a set of laws and a fact pattern and you have to write something - an argument, a petition, etc based on those, not on "real life" which can be something different depending on the latest court cases. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net |
Forty Years Licensed
On Oct 26, 2:34 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
AF6AY wrote: Out of 120 questions, I missed 6 (counting the marks made by the VEC team leader) and am sure that 5 of those were on certain regulations like bandplan numbers and satellite operation. The bandplan frequencies and satellite operations are a real issue with me. I always thought that better questions were available, since like you note, you look at a chart. I do too. At least with the band plans, the better question for the test would be to see if the testee knew where to look them up. With all due respect, I think there's a bit of terminology confusion here. In amateur radio use, "bandplan" refers to voluntary, suggested usage of frequencies, not regulations. For example, AM operation on 75 meters centers around 3885 kHz even though it is legal (for Region 2 Extras) to use AM anywhere from 3600 to 4000 kHz (as long as the sidebands are inside those limits). "Subbands" refers to the frequency limits in the regulations themselves, by mode, class of license, or both. For example, 'phone modes are not allowed from 3500 to 3600 kHz for any class of FCC-licensed radio amateur in Region 2. That CW/data-only subband is part of the regulations, not the bandplan. Or the rule that only Extras can use 3500 to 3525 kHz, etc. - regulations, not bandplan. Yes, some hams do use the term "bandplan" to refer to the regulations. But doing so leads to confusion, because the term usually means voluntary agreements, not regulations. Why not use the term that most clearly expresses the concept? On 160 meters there are no subbands by mode or license class, but there is a bandplan! Same for 30 meters. The problem with removing direct questions on the regs is that such an approach has a proven record of not working as a regulatory tool. Back when FCC licensed cb users, the license form required a signed statement that the licensee had read the regulations, understood them, and would follow them to the letter. Compliance with the regulations for that radio service turned out to be less than FCC anticipated, however. Putting specific questions on the regs in the tests is one way of saying that knowing those regs is important for all hams. If they are replaced by questions about "where do you look up the band edges" or some such, why can't the whole exam be replaced by such questions? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Forty Years Licensed
Michael Coslo posted on Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:34:11 EDT
AF6AY wrote: Out of 120 questions, I missed 6 (counting the marks made by the VEC team leader) and am sure that 5 of those were on certain regulations like bandplan numbers and satellite operation. That was satisfactory to me with 95 percent correct. I've got a little chart of bandplans and don't expect to get to outer space to operate satellites. :-) Hi Len, The bandplan frequencies and satellite operations are a real issue with me. I always thought that better questions were available, since like you note, you look at a chart. I do too. Mike, I agree with you but don't see it as anything worth arguing about. At least with the band plans, the better question for the test would be to see if the testee knew where to look them up. That could be a solution. I'm still wondering about all those space questions, though. Like there's not going to be many DXepiditions to earth orbit specifically for radio amateurs.. :-) 73, Len AF6AY |
Forty Years Licensed
Phil Kane posted on Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:08:04 EDT
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:34:11 EDT, Michael Coslo wrote: At least with the band plans, the better question for the test would be to see if the testee knew where to look them up. Another approach would be to have a sample chart with the segments labeled by their emission designators, such as A1A or J3E, and ask for the segment allowed to Phone or Morse, or Data, etc. This would be independent of "real life" band plans or regulations, which are subject to frequent changes, and would test another phase of the knowledge of The Compleat Ham. "Compleat Ham?" :-) 'Armour plated?' Or Farmer John? :-) The California Bar Exam does just that - they give you a set of laws and a fact pattern and you have to write something - an argument, a petition, etc based on those, not on "real life" which can be something different depending on the latest court cases. With all due respect, Phil, a Bar Examination is for a professional license, not an amateur radio license. No one is expecting the theory part to be taken from a state Professional Engineer license, yet that would be as applicable in the same sense, yes?. While there is so much hoo-hah about 'privatization' of amateur radio examinations, the NCVEC are all composed of licensed amateurs. They seem to have done good in the last two decades and one can communicate with them about what should be the questions. Could anyone but the FCC discuss things about the FCC amateur radio test questions before privatization? I ask because I was unaware that there was any possibility of suggesting anything about that before privatization. 73, Len AF6AY |
Forty Years Licensed
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:13:50 EDT, AF6AY wrote:
With all due respect, Phil, a Bar Examination is for a professional license, not an amateur radio license. No one is expecting the theory part to be taken from a state Professional Engineer license, yet that would be as applicable in the same sense, yes?. I wasn't referring to the content level, but to the process of using and applying "given" information rather than "memory guesses". -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net |
Forty Years Licensed
On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:13:50 EDT, AF6AY wrote:
Could anyone but the FCC discuss things about the FCC amateur radio test questions before privatization? I ask because I was unaware that there was any possibility of suggesting anything about that before privatization. In real life the FCC exams were mode up by engineers who were knowledgeable in the fields being tested. I myself wrote several questions on television standards and measurements for the Radiotelephone First Class License revision in 1972. The questions on the amateur exams were composed by staff engineers who were active amateurs. Yes, there was a provision for input from the "outside" by writing a letter to the Examinations and Licensing Branch of the Field Operations Bureau with the suggestions. This was not a "secret" process, either, because lots of such letters were received and reviewed by the committee that was responsible for examination revisions. Some suggestions were accepted, others were rejected. My gripe with privatization is that these are functions that should be done by the FCC, not by others. Dumping them on someone else is not the proper way to solve the problems that existed. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net |
Forty Years Licensed
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Forty Years Licensed
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... [snip] Thanks for the correction Jim. I should have stated that what I don't like on the tests is questions about what particular frequencies you are allowed to operate on by your class. Yet there are times such as mobile or portable operation that we don't have that band chart with us. So it's nice to know our frequencies. Of course taking into account the bandwidth of the transmitted signal, another question that would be better on the test than the simple statement of frequencies. I definitely agree that this should be a possible test question as one can be out of band simply due to the width of the signal. A lot of people don't understand this until they get "dinged" so to speak. When I teach a class, I try to emphasize this. Dee, N8UZE |
Forty Years Licensed
"Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... [snip] Thanks for the correction Jim. I should have stated that what I don't like on the tests is questions about what particular frequencies you are allowed to operate on by your class. Yet there are times such as mobile or portable operation that we don't have that band chart with us. So it's nice to know our frequencies. how many mobiles will premit out of band op Dee? none of mine will only on HF can this be an issue since only hthere does the rules contiue the insanity ofparts of bands to deferent class (amoug the classes we still issue) Of course taking into account the bandwidth of the transmitted signal, another question that would be better on the test than the simple statement of frequencies. I definitely agree that this should be a possible test question as one can be out of band simply due to the width of the signal. A lot of people don't understand this until they get "dinged" so to speak. When I teach a class, I try to emphasize this. I thought it was such a question Dee, N8UZE |
Forty Years Licensed
"konstans" wrote in message
: : "Dee Flint" wrote in message : : ... : : : : : : "Michael Coslo" wrote in message : : : ... : : : : [snip] : : : : Thanks for the correction Jim. I should have stated : : : : that what I don't like on the tests is questions : : : : about what particular frequencies you are allowed : : : : to operate on by your class. : : : : : : : : : : Yet there are times such as mobile or portable : : : operation that we don't have that band chart with us. : : : So it's nice to know our frequencies. : : : : how many mobiles will premit out of band op Dee? none : : of mine will They can be programmed or modified to. For example my Icom IC-V82 2m handie will transmit anywhere from 136-174 MHz. This was apparently necessary to allow it to operate on the US 2m band 144-148 MHz. Here in Region 1 (UK) we only have 144-146 on 2m so so in order to keep the warranty intact, I asked the importers to modify it for the US band when I bought it, as I travel there on holiday regularly. They told me that opening it up to 134-174 was the only way it could be done, apparently the firmware in US versions that cover 144-148 only is different. 73 Ivor G6URP |
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