The Spirit of Knoxville
 

wrote:
Ivor Jones wrote:
"Phil Kane" wrote in message

: On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:13:15 EDT, Steve Bonine
: wrote:
:
:
: Do you have any idea why they're going to the trouble to
: turn off the transmitter over the UK?
:
: My WAG is because it doesn't conform to their rules.

What will the transmitting frequency be..? Don't forget that we have
different frequencies in some bands, for example we only get 2 MHz in the
2m band, 144-146 MHz whereas the US has 144-148 MHz.

If it will be transmitting outside of the UK bandplan then that would be a
valid reason as the frequency used could be in use for something else over
here.

A balloon is an aircraft so that makes it illegal to transmit.
No transmitting equipment may be operated from an aircraft other than
type approved aviation band equipment under the control of the commander.


I'm not sure where you are getting your info. Lots of hams are sending
up balloons with transmitters all the time. Lots of links can be
googled, but here are two:

http://www.athensarc.org/balloon.asp
http://www.arbonet.net/

At least in the US, the rules are conducive to ballooning for schools,
amateurs and weather forecasters. I'd been planning to do some Amateur
ballooning for several years, but other duties have interfered.

One of the most difficult aspects of trying to get a group started was
the disbelief of many people that we were actually allowed to do this
sort of thing.

There are rules, and they must be followed, but they are commonsense and
not terribly restrictive.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

The Spirit of Knoxville
 

: Do you have any idea why they're going to the trouble to
: turn off the transmitter over the UK?

A balloon is an aircraft so that makes it illegal to transmit.
No transmitting equipment may be operated from an aircraft other than
type approved aviation band equipment under the control of the commander.

Some of the other replies are apparently forgetting we're talking about it
being illegal **while the balloon is flying over the UK**.

It is indeed legal **under U.S. regulations** to operate aeronautical
mobile. But U.S. regulations cease to apply once the balloon enters the
airspace of some other country. It would appear British regulations do
not allow for aeronautical mobile operation in unmanned aircraft.

The Spirit of Knoxville
 

Steve Bonine wrote:
wrote:

A balloon is an aircraft so that makes it illegal to transmit.
No transmitting equipment may be operated from an aircraft other than
type approved aviation band equipment under the control of the commander.

Can you cite any sources that back up this statement?

It will be in an Air Navigation Order or an Avaition Act somewhere.

Weather balloons are launched on a daily basis, using radio to send
their data. I don't think that these are illegal.

Radiosondes are a special case, using very low power on an assigned
frequency.

I believe that "pilot in command" is the term you want instead of
"commander", and it's my understanding that any equipment that the PIC
approves can be used from the aircraft. I've heard a fair number of
hams signing "aeronautical mobile" and I'm sure that private pilots
routinely use cell phones. Another example is the telephone service
provided on many commercial airliners.

The Commander of an aircraft is not necessarily the pilot in command.
The commander, who is a qualified pilot but does not necessarily fly
the aircraft, is responsible throughout the flight in the same way
as the captain of a ship. Many long haul flights depart with 2 crews,
one sleeping. It is not unusual for the person sitting in the left hand
seat (and thus pilot in command) to change 3 or more times in the
course of the flight but there is only one commander.
Do you expect the two pilots sitting up front to remain awake and
competant for a 16 hour flight ?.

That may be the case in the USA but it is certainly illegal in the UK
and in the European Union. There are a few type-approved satellite based
telephone systems which ICAO have agreed may be fitted in passenger
aircraft, all of which are permanent fixtures. These remain switched
off until the aircraft reaches cruising altitude and are switched off
again at top of descent to minimise the risk to navigation systems.

g4jci

The Spirit of Knoxville
 

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:

Some of the other replies are apparently forgetting we're talking about it
being illegal **while the balloon is flying over the UK**.

It is indeed legal **under U.S. regulations** to operate aeronautical
mobile. But U.S. regulations cease to apply once the balloon enters the
airspace of some other country. It would appear British regulations do
not allow for aeronautical mobile operation in unmanned aircraft.

ANY aircraft.

g4jci

The Spirit of Knoxville
 

Ivor Jones wrote:
wrote in message

It's illegal here in the UK to operate aeronautical mobile but I
understand that in the US and other countries it's allowed with the
permission of the PIC (pilot in command).

But this is an unmanned craft, so where do we stand with that..?


An aircraft is ruled by the law of its country of registration but
operation is ruled by the authority in whose airspace the aircraft
is currently located. It may thus be legal to fit a transmitter in
the USA to a USA registered aircraft but it must be switched off
before entering european airspace.

g4jci

The Spirit of Knoxville
 

"Steve Bonine" wrote in message

: wrote:
:
: A balloon is an aircraft so that makes it illegal to
: transmit.
: No transmitting equipment may be operated from an
: aircraft other than type approved aviation band
: equipment under the control of the commander.
:
: Can you cite any sources that back up this statement?
:
: Weather balloons are launched on a daily basis, using
: radio to send their data. I don't think that these are
: illegal.
:
: I believe that "pilot in command" is the term you want
: instead of "commander", and it's my understanding that
: any equipment that the PIC approves can be used from the
: aircraft. I've heard a fair number of hams signing
: "aeronautical mobile" and I'm sure that private pilots
: routinely use cell phones. Another example is the
: telephone service provided on many commercial airliners.

But these are still region-specific. Here in Region 1 we are most
definitely *not* allowed to use amateur equipment on board aircraft, even
a light aircraft of which the operator might be the sole occupant and
therefore his own PIC.

Likewise cellular phones. Although the technical specifications of the
systems in use, certainly GSM as used over here, means that once in the
air the handset would be unlikely to see many base stations as the
transmitting antennas of these would be aimed downwards at ground-based
users.

The phone service provided commercially on airliners is satellite based
and is specifically licensed for the purpose. Some airlines are
(unfortunately IMHO) experimenting with pico-cells inside the cabin to
allow passengers to use their own handsets, but the onward transmission
from the aircraft is by satellite.

73 Ivor G6URP

The Spirit of Knoxville
 

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message


[snip]

: Some of the other replies are apparently forgetting we're
: talking about it being illegal **while the balloon is
: flying over the UK**.
:
: It is indeed legal **under U.S. regulations** to operate
: aeronautical mobile. But U.S. regulations cease to apply
: once the balloon enters the airspace of some other
: country. It would appear British regulations do not
: allow for aeronautical mobile operation in unmanned
: aircraft.

Or in manned aircraft come to that.

73 Ivor G6URP

The Spirit of Knoxville
 

In article ,
"Ivor Jones" wrote:

The phone service provided commercially on airliners is satellite based
and is specifically licensed for the purpose. Some airlines are
(unfortunately IMHO) experimenting with pico-cells inside the cabin to
allow passengers to use their own handsets, but the onward transmission
from the aircraft is by satellite.

73 Ivor G6URP

It may be in the the UK, but here in the USA, some of the In Plane Phone
Communications, is done in the 800 Mhz band from Ground Stations. Our
Regulatory Agency, (FCC) setup a Radio Service just for Air Ground Phone
Communications. I can't remember the Actual Name offhand, but I am sure
that Phil can come up with it.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

The Spirit of Knoxville
 

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 05:35:50 EDT, wrote:

A balloon is an aircraft so that makes it illegal to transmit.
No transmitting equipment may be operated from an aircraft other than
type approved aviation band equipment under the control of the commander.

This may be the case in the UK - I'm not up to speed on that, though -
but as far as US-registered aircraft is concerned, non-aviation radio
equipment, such as amateur radio, common-carrier radio, private mobile
("two-way") radio, and broadcast auxiliary radio is installed and
operated routinely by persons other than the aircraft commander, as
long as the station is authorized either by specific license or by
blanket authorization.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net