Bill Horne wrote:
Like the lottery, they're selling a dream: if the chip were omitted
without telling anyone, I doubt 99% of hams would notice. ;-)

Instead of a chip, wouldn't it make more sense
just to use a small subroutine in the CPU?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Instead of a chip, wouldn't it make more sense
just to use a small subroutine in the CPU?

That's what most radios do these days. Some with
less-than-perfect priorities: The internal keyer
of one particular YAECOMWOD flagship transceiver
I recently had the pleasure to operate generated
broken CW if the processor had other tasks, like
starting the internal fan, to do...

About the topic in general: The cost of adding a
keyer is negligible, and no serious manufacturer
will even consider to omit it from their radios.

It *is* a selling point, no matter if people use
it or not...

73,
--
Fabian Kurz, DJ1YFK * Dresden, Germany * http://fkurz.net/

Steve Bonine wrote:
Bill Horne wrote:

I'll let you in on a secret: I think manufacturers put keyers in their
rigs because every ham who has forgotten the code wants to think that
he'll hook up an iambic key someday and win the CW SS.

I'm afraid that the majority of today's hams simply don't care. But if
you mentioned any one aspect of ham radio -- DX, contesting, public
service -- you could say the same thing. The _majority_ of hams don't
care.

I wonder if there is any one aspect of the hobby that the majority do
care about.

It is a interesting question, Steve. I suspect not. There are so many
different aspects and unfortunately some of them are at odds. If I had
to perform only one aspect of the hobby it would be homebrewing. But my
favorite activities are Homebrewing, PSK31, and contesting in that
order. Most everyone else would answer differently.

But to coin a phrase "Its all good!"


What's the single most popular activity in ham radio? Based
on our local group, I'd have to say "drinking coffee with the gang."

Hehe, we've nicknamed our local repeater the "Food Repeater". It is
pretty busy, but we do spend a lot of time talking about where to get
together for breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert, coffee, snacks..... well
you get the idea.

Like the lottery, they're selling a dream: if the chip were omitted
without telling anyone, I doubt 99% of hams would notice. ;-)

You mean put the jack on the back for the key, but don't connect it to
anything? Yeah, I think you're probably right. Problem is, someone
from that 1% would hook up a paddle, find that it didn't work, and
inform the 99%. Then there would be an excuse to rant, and people who
don't even own a paddle would be vociferously roasting the manufacturer.

Minor quibble... Do you really think it is that high a number? Keeping
in mind that that roughly half of all hams are Technicians that probably
wouldn't be expected to know. But of General and above, I would think
that most would notice.

At any rate, it isn't that expensive or space hogging an addition, and
it has uses beyond transmitting CW Morse - tuning and Morse practice.

The rigs are meant to be versatile, I mean I have USB capability on 40
meters and below, and LSB above that. There are other things that are
likely used much less than a keyer.

On a related subject, There was a new Ham trying to sell a Icom IC-7000
(I Want, I Want!)on QRZ Because he said it didn't perform well and he
was tired of it. Several other Hams tried to get him to say exactly what
wasn't working with it, and it ended up that he just didn't understand
how to work an HF radio. The thing with HF rigs is that they are
definitely NOT plug and play. That's what I love about them, but new
guys and gals coming from the HT world of repeaters need a lot of
Elmering. And we should be doing it.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

"Fabian Kurz" wrote in message
...
Cecil Moore wrote:
Instead of a chip, wouldn't it make more sense
just to use a small subroutine in the CPU?

That's what most radios do these days. Some with
less-than-perfect priorities: The internal keyer
of one particular YAECOMWOD flagship transceiver
I recently had the pleasure to operate generated
broken CW if the processor had other tasks, like
starting the internal fan, to do...

About the topic in general: The cost of adding a
keyer is negligible, and no serious manufacturer
will even consider to omit it from their radios.

It *is* a selling point, no matter if people use
it or not...

73,
--
Fabian Kurz, DJ1YFK * Dresden, Germany * http://fkurz.net/

I recently bought a high end HF rig and would not have considered it
if it had been the same rig with no keyer built in.
My code skills have been lost from years of not using them, but now
that I don't have to gain a certain word speed to "upgrade" I have a
paddle and will be starting CW again. Ashame that a hobby that is
suppose to promote experimentation and communication had blocked
of so many frequencies for "elitist" use.
****************** Oh by the way straight from the
current ARRL QST April issue Page 12 "This Just In" "U.S. hams
who wish to operate with full privileges in European countries covered by
the
European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations
(CEPT) must now hold an Extra class licensee."******************
I was studying for my Extra, but if all it is to be, is another elitist" use
of
rules and reg's to validate the "high standing" of VEC's and 'higher ups'
then
maybe I should skip the Extra Class. I have heard OT's and many in the
Extra portions of the bands using as poor practices / illegal power / rude
and
foul language as in any other portions of the bands. If someone new or at
a
lower class licensee want so misbehave, restricting them to operate outside
Extra band plans will not create good manors and legal behavior. Didn't
anyone learn a thing from prohibition nearly a century ago. Same
philosophy.
73 Have a Nice Day

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message


[snip]

: Minor quibble... Do you really think it is that high a
: number? Keeping in mind that that roughly half of all
: hams are Technicians that probably wouldn't be expected
: to know. But of General and above, I would think that
: most would notice.

Another minor quibble - I take it by that you mean all *US* amateurs..?

73 Ivor G6URP

"Cecil Moore" wrote

Instead of a chip, wouldn't it make more sense
just to use a small subroutine in the CPU?

How would YOU know? ;-)

Cecil, are you ready to get on the air? I'm waitin'....

Howard

"Mr Fed UP" wrote

****************** Oh by the way straight from the
current ARRL QST April issue Page 12 "This Just In" "U.S. hams
who wish to operate with full privileges in European countries covered by
the
European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations
(CEPT) must now hold an Extra class licensee."******************

Your concern misses the whole point. It is a *privilege* to hold an extra
class licensee... especially if she's cute!

Howard N7SO

On Mar 25, 2:28�pm, "Mr Fed UP" wrote:
My code skills have been lost from years of not
using them, but now
that I don't have to gain a certain word speed to
"upgrade" I have a
paddle and will be starting CW again. �

I don't see the connection. btw, all US amateur licenses that
required code tests were available for just a 5 wpm code
test and a doctor's note since 1990 (18 years) and for just
a 5 wpm code test since 2000 (8 years).

Ashame that a hobby that is
suppose to promote experimentation and communication
had blocked
of so many frequencies for "elitist" use.

What frequencies were those?

The only CW/data spectrum reserved for Extras is the bottom
25 kHz of 80, 40, 20 and 15 meters.

Oh by the way straight from the
current ARRL QST April issue Page 12 "This Just In" �"U.S. hams
who wish to operate with full privileges in European countries
covered by the
European Conference of Postal and
Telecommunications Administrations
(CEPT) must now hold an Extra �class licensee"

Extra or Advanced.

I was studying for my Extra, but if all it is to be,
is another elitist" use of rules and reg's to validate the
"high standing" of VEC's and 'higher ups'
then maybe I should skip the Extra Class.

The change has nothing to do with the VECs. It is the result of CEPT's
Radio Regulatory Working Group re-evaluating the equivalence between
CEPT country license requirements and US license requirements.

IOW, the CEPT folks decided that having a General or Technician class
license does not qualify the licensee to have full operating
privileges in CEPT countries. Since Techs and Generals don't have full
US operating privileges, why should they have full privs in CEPT
countries?

�I have heard OT's and many in the
Extra portions of the bands using as poor practices / illegal
power / rude and
foul language as in any other portions of the bands.

Have you heard those goings-on from hams using non-voice modes?

73 de Jim, N2EY�

Ivor Jones wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message


[snip]

: Minor quibble... Do you really think it is that high a
: number? Keeping in mind that that roughly half of all
: hams are Technicians that probably wouldn't be expected
: to know. But of General and above, I would think that
: most would notice.

Another minor quibble - I take it by that you mean all *US* amateurs..?


That would be correct. Sometimes I/we forget that this is an
international group. Sorry about that.


Anyhow, the point is that there are a lot of Amateurs who might not be
expected to know that there is a Keyer or even a Key jack on an HF radio
because they wouldn't be expected to


- 73 de Mike N3LI -

wrote:
On Mar 25, 2:28�pm, "Mr Fed UP" wrote:
My code skills have been lost from years of not
using them, but now that I don't have to gain a certain word speed to
"upgrade" I have a paddle and will be starting CW again. �

I don't see the connection. btw, all US amateur licenses that
required code tests were available for just a 5 wpm code
test and a doctor's note since 1990 (18 years) and for just
a 5 wpm code test since 2000 (8 years).

Ashame that a hobby that is
suppose to promote experimentation and communication
had blocked of so many frequencies for "elitist" use.

What frequencies were those?

The only CW/data spectrum reserved for Extras is the bottom
25 kHz of 80, 40, 20 and 15 meters.

The concept of reserving privileges by license class is not a bad one.
While some may argue that any sort of class distinctions are elitist,
there are many of us who believe in education and advancement.

While I would not want to mess with the license class band access as it
is now, I would not at all object to new license classes that were just
based on knowledge, and didn't confer any particular privileges.

Knowledge is way cool! 8^)

Oh by the way straight from the
current ARRL QST April issue Page 12 "This Just In" �"U.S. hams
who wish to operate with full privileges in European countries
covered by the
European Conference of Postal and
Telecommunications Administrations
(CEPT) must now hold an Extra �class licensee"

Extra or Advanced.

I was studying for my Extra, but if all it is to be,
is another elitist" use of rules and reg's to validate the
"high standing" of VEC's and 'higher ups'
then maybe I should skip the Extra Class.

The change has nothing to do with the VECs. It is the result of CEPT's
Radio Regulatory Working Group re-evaluating the equivalence between
CEPT country license requirements and US license requirements.

IOW, the CEPT folks decided that having a General or Technician class
license does not qualify the licensee to have full operating
privileges in CEPT countries. Since Techs and Generals don't have full
US operating privileges, why should they have full privs in CEPT
countries?

It would seem consistent and appropriate.


�I have heard OT's and many in the
Extra portions of the bands using as poor practices / illegal
power / rude and foul language as in any other portions of the bands.

Have you heard those goings-on from hams using non-voice modes?

I've heard a little - not much. But by and large, most people who use
non-voice modes such as PSK31 and OOK Morse are going to be less likely
to engage in shenanigans because the very nature of the modes slows
things down a little, and the Op is more likely to give a little more
thought about what they type or key.

And let's not forget that everyone out there can hear what goes on on
SSB, so statistically things will get skewed a bit.

Amateur radio is largely a knowledge and skill based activity, and it
has been for a long time. I look at the different classes as a way to
work up to a high level of that knowledge and skill, rather than
require the highest level at the start. Even the technician level
license allows significant privileges, such as the ability to construct
high power stations and experiment in a lot of different areas.

That Ops are encouraged to gain in skills and knowledge are a great
thing IMO. The increased privileges are a nice enticement.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -