wrote:

From the standpoint of the manufacturers, it would not be practical to
remove a feature most customers have come to expect, whether they use
it much or not.

The negative impact on sales from a comment in a review like, "Great
rig, but missing an internal keyer" would offset the tiny cost of
including the keyer.

73, Steve KB9X

Steve Bonine wrote:
wrote:

From the standpoint of the manufacturers, it would not be practical to
remove a feature most customers have come to expect, whether they use
it much or not.

The negative impact on sales from a comment in a review like, "Great
rig, but missing an internal keyer" would offset the tiny cost of
including the keyer.


Radios are built with features that people expect, and most hams do
indeed expect a keyer these days. to not have one would indeed cost sales.

Even among those who do not use the keyers to send Morse, the keyer
function can be used to reduce the duty cycle when tuning an amplifier,
which will stress the tubes less in the event of a bad initial setting.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Steve Bonine wrote:
wrote:

From the standpoint of the manufacturers, it would not be practical to
remove a feature most customers have come to expect, whether they use
it much or not.

The negative impact on sales from a comment in a review like, "Great
rig, but missing an internal keyer" would offset the tiny cost of
including the keyer.

73, Steve KB9X

Steve,

I'll let you in on a secret: I think manufacturers put keyers in their
rigs because every ham who has forgotten the code wants to think that
he'll hook up an iambic key someday and win the CW SS.

Like the lottery, they're selling a dream: if the chip were omitted
without telling anyone, I doubt 99% of hams would notice. ;-)

73,

Bill W1AC

Bill Horne wrote:

I'll let you in on a secret: I think manufacturers put keyers in their
rigs because every ham who has forgotten the code wants to think that
he'll hook up an iambic key someday and win the CW SS.

I'm afraid that the majority of today's hams simply don't care. But if
you mentioned any one aspect of ham radio -- DX, contesting, public
service -- you could say the same thing. The _majority_ of hams don't care.

I wonder if there is any one aspect of the hobby that the majority do
care about. What's the single most popular activity in ham radio?
Based on our local group, I'd have to say "drinking coffee with the gang."

Like the lottery, they're selling a dream: if the chip were omitted
without telling anyone, I doubt 99% of hams would notice. ;-)

You mean put the jack on the back for the key, but don't connect it to
anything? Yeah, I think you're probably right. Problem is, someone
from that 1% would hook up a paddle, find that it didn't work, and
inform the 99%. Then there would be an excuse to rant, and people who
don't even own a paddle would be vociferously roasting the manufacturer.

:-) -- Apply this smiley as necessary above if you take these comments
too seriously.

73, Steve KB9X

Steve Bonine wrote:
Bill Horne wrote:

I'll let you in on a secret: I think manufacturers put keyers in their
rigs because every ham who has forgotten the code wants to think that
he'll hook up an iambic key someday and win the CW SS.

I'm afraid that the majority of today's hams simply don't care. But if
you mentioned any one aspect of ham radio -- DX, contesting, public
service -- you could say the same thing. The _majority_ of hams don't
care.

I wonder if there is any one aspect of the hobby that the majority do
care about.

It is a interesting question, Steve. I suspect not. There are so many
different aspects and unfortunately some of them are at odds. If I had
to perform only one aspect of the hobby it would be homebrewing. But my
favorite activities are Homebrewing, PSK31, and contesting in that
order. Most everyone else would answer differently.

But to coin a phrase "Its all good!"


What's the single most popular activity in ham radio? Based
on our local group, I'd have to say "drinking coffee with the gang."

Hehe, we've nicknamed our local repeater the "Food Repeater". It is
pretty busy, but we do spend a lot of time talking about where to get
together for breakfast, lunch, dinner, dessert, coffee, snacks..... well
you get the idea.

Like the lottery, they're selling a dream: if the chip were omitted
without telling anyone, I doubt 99% of hams would notice. ;-)

You mean put the jack on the back for the key, but don't connect it to
anything? Yeah, I think you're probably right. Problem is, someone
from that 1% would hook up a paddle, find that it didn't work, and
inform the 99%. Then there would be an excuse to rant, and people who
don't even own a paddle would be vociferously roasting the manufacturer.

Minor quibble... Do you really think it is that high a number? Keeping
in mind that that roughly half of all hams are Technicians that probably
wouldn't be expected to know. But of General and above, I would think
that most would notice.

At any rate, it isn't that expensive or space hogging an addition, and
it has uses beyond transmitting CW Morse - tuning and Morse practice.

The rigs are meant to be versatile, I mean I have USB capability on 40
meters and below, and LSB above that. There are other things that are
likely used much less than a keyer.

On a related subject, There was a new Ham trying to sell a Icom IC-7000
(I Want, I Want!)on QRZ Because he said it didn't perform well and he
was tired of it. Several other Hams tried to get him to say exactly what
wasn't working with it, and it ended up that he just didn't understand
how to work an HF radio. The thing with HF rigs is that they are
definitely NOT plug and play. That's what I love about them, but new
guys and gals coming from the HT world of repeaters need a lot of
Elmering. And we should be doing it.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message


[snip]

: Minor quibble... Do you really think it is that high a
: number? Keeping in mind that that roughly half of all
: hams are Technicians that probably wouldn't be expected
: to know. But of General and above, I would think that
: most would notice.

Another minor quibble - I take it by that you mean all *US* amateurs..?

73 Ivor G6URP

Ivor Jones wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message


[snip]

: Minor quibble... Do you really think it is that high a
: number? Keeping in mind that that roughly half of all
: hams are Technicians that probably wouldn't be expected
: to know. But of General and above, I would think that
: most would notice.

Another minor quibble - I take it by that you mean all *US* amateurs..?


That would be correct. Sometimes I/we forget that this is an
international group. Sorry about that.


Anyhow, the point is that there are a lot of Amateurs who might not be
expected to know that there is a Keyer or even a Key jack on an HF radio
because they wouldn't be expected to


- 73 de Mike N3LI -

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message

: Ivor Jones wrote:
: "Michael Coslo" wrote in message
:
:
: [snip]
:
: : Minor quibble... Do you really think it is that high a
: : number? Keeping in mind that that roughly half of all
: : hams are Technicians that probably wouldn't be
: : expected to know. But of General and above, I would
: : think that most would notice.
:
: Another minor quibble - I take it by that you mean all
: *US* amateurs..?
:
:
: That would be correct. Sometimes I/we forget that this is
: an international group. Sorry about that.

No problem :-)

: Anyhow, the point is that there are a lot of Amateurs who
: might not be expected to know that there is a Keyer or
: even a Key jack on an HF radio because they wouldn't be
: expected to.

But I rather think those who do expect it would be rather annoyed if it
wasn't there. The question is what percentage of amateurs is that overall
in the market for HF radios..?

Personally I've never been interested in CW but it would be rather nice if
a radio I bought had the facility, just in case. Particularly if the
additional cost was negligible.


73 Ivor G6URP

Bill Horne wrote:
Like the lottery, they're selling a dream: if the chip were omitted
without telling anyone, I doubt 99% of hams would notice. ;-)

Instead of a chip, wouldn't it make more sense
just to use a small subroutine in the CPU?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Instead of a chip, wouldn't it make more sense
just to use a small subroutine in the CPU?

That's what most radios do these days. Some with
less-than-perfect priorities: The internal keyer
of one particular YAECOMWOD flagship transceiver
I recently had the pleasure to operate generated
broken CW if the processor had other tasks, like
starting the internal fan, to do...

About the topic in general: The cost of adding a
keyer is negligible, and no serious manufacturer
will even consider to omit it from their radios.

It *is* a selling point, no matter if people use
it or not...

73,
--
Fabian Kurz, DJ1YFK * Dresden, Germany * http://fkurz.net/