On Jan 9, 10:50�am, Steve Bonine wrote:
This is a little like saying that the reason commercial shipping moved
from wind power to engines is that they could have a smaller crew.

That was part of the reason. But the biggest reason was cost, of which
crew cost is a factor.

�Cost
is only a minor part of why commercial communications services stopped
using cw.

I think it was a major reason - perhaps *the* major reason, in many
cases.

Technology moves forward. �That TTY teleprinter might cost less t
han a
skilled Morse operator, but more important is that it does the job
better. �

That depends on how you define "better".

Lower cost is one way. A big factor in for-profit companies.

Speed is another, often because "time is money".

The nature of the communications operation is another. For example, if
a message needs to be repeated several times, the use of Morse
operators can mean each one has to receive and then re-send the
message. With teleprinters and tape perforators, a tape can be cut and
sent later. If a message is sent from one location to many, all the
receiving Morse operators can be replaced by teleprinters.

OTOH, electromechanical RTTY equipment was extremely expensive,
complex, large, heavy, noisy and power-hungry compared to typical Morse
Code equipment. It required maintenance, repair and supplies,
and was not 100% error-free.

If you're running a commercial service and you're being paid
real money to move message traffic, you invest in the latest technology
to do it because that's the overall most efficient way to get the job don
e.

Sometimes. The latest technology isn't always the overall most
efficient way.

But those are all details. The main reason is simply the overall
cost.

While I'm nostalgic about the end of cw in the world of commercial
radio, that has nothing to do with my feeling about its use in ham
radio. �One of the things hobbyists do is maintain expertise in s
kills
that might otherwise be lost forever. �I enjoy the mode, and it s
till
has plenty of application in my hobby.

Agreed, but there's more to it.

Unlike commercial services, amateurs are almost all self-funded, self-
trained and unpaid. Most amateurs don't have large amounts of time-
sensitive communications to get from A to B (and maybe C, D, E, etc.)
Things like size, weight, cost, power consumption, complexity, etc.,
can be major factors to the amateur.

Since RTTY seems to be the subject, recall that amateurs have been
using RTTY since at least 1948. Within a few years some amateurs had
fairly sophisticated RTTY setups, often homebrewed from WW2 surplus.
For example, see QST for January, 1960, where W0LQV/AF0LQV describes a
home-made RTTY TU built around a BC-453.

And well I remember K3RTR's RTTY setup, and the station we had at the
University.

But for many amateurs RTTY didn't do the job "better". A teleprinter
cost thousands of dollars new - almost all amateurs used surplus
machines, often obtained through MARS channels. They required paper,
inked ribbons and oil, and not just any would do. Worst of all, they
required additional electronics and a higher-quality receiver and
transmitter.

For many non-amateur applications, these weren't big factors. The cost
of an R-390A receiver and CV-57/URR TU to go on a battleship weren't
showstoppers for, say, the US Navy. John Q. Hamm has somewhat more
limited resources, and expecting all amateurs to follow the practices
of non-amateur services with much greater resources isn't realistic.

If others don't enjoy it, fine. �I don't enjoy EME, and I feel my
self no
less a ham for that.

Funny you should mention EME.

The US Army Signal Corps did moon-radar experiments as early as 1946
and there was a military EME communications system in operation by 1960
or 61. (Once again, the resources available were somewhat more than the
average amateur has). But the military soon abandoned the whole EME
idea, replacing it with satellites. I don't think any other radio
service uses EME, and most never even tried. (btw, a lot of the people
involved in the 1946 moon-radar were hams).

Yet amateurs continue to pursue EME, right now, today. Yes, there's no
separate EME test, but there are a significant number of EME questions
on the license exams.

�I'm not going to denigrate my fellow ham because
they don't care to operate a mode that I happen to enjoy.

Of course not - but that door swings both ways.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On Jan 9, 9:41�am, wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:50 am, Steve Bonine wrote:
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.moderated
From:
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:41:09 EST
Local: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:41 am
Subject: New club for Morse enthusiasts

Unlike commercial services, amateurs are almost all self-funded, self-
trained and unpaid. Most amateurs don't have large amounts of time-
sensitive communications to get from A to B (and maybe C, D, E, etc.)
Things like size, weight, cost, power consumption, complexity, etc.,
can be major factors to the amateur.

The FCC specifically defines the amateur radio service as being unpaid
("without pecuniary interest" in more legalistic terms).

Your statement about "time-sensitive communications" is unclear.

Big-time amateur contesters sometimes spend $10,000 to $20,000 total for
a large tower and beam antennas for HF. That would buy 5 to 10 Model 28
8-level TTYs new from Teletype Corporation.

Since RTTY seems to be the subject, recall that amateurs have been
using RTTY since at least 1948.

Various teleprinter signals were transmitted by radio in 1928 in other
radio services.

But for many amateurs RTTY didn't do the job "better". A teleprinter
cost thousands of dollars new - almost all amateurs used surplus
machines, often obtained through MARS channels. They required paper,
inked ribbons and oil, and not just any would do. Worst of all, they
required additional electronics and a higher-quality receiver and
transmitter.

"Additional electronics" consisted only of two subsystems, an FM
demodulator and an interface driver for the TTY loop circuits (60 mA
maximum if memory is correct). That commercial or military equipment is
built for very long 24/7 life is a requirement there. That is not a
requirement for amateur operation.

To properly use an NTS CW message delivery requires the official ARRL
Radiogram form, inked ribbons for the typewriter, oil for the
typewriter, perhaps an eyeshade and sleeve garters...:-) shrug

The US Army Signal Corps did moon-radar experiments as early as 1946

Successful experiment. Done as "Project Diana"...in one of the three
laboratories just outside of Fort Monmouth, NJ. I saw all three labs in
1952 while assigned to the Fort Monmouth Signal School.

and there was a military EME communications system in operation by 1960
or 61.

I was unaware of that. In that time-frame, the US Army was engaged in
trying out Troposcatter methods for the end purpose of making
specifications for contract bidding on Troposcatter using low
microwaves. Troposcatter uses literal scattering of radio waves within
the Tropopause of the atmosphere and has no direct radio path from Tx to
Rx. Position of the lunar orbit makes no impact on Troposcatter.

In the time of 1960 through 1970 (approximately), the NSA was
experimenting with its use for both passive intercepts and to active
links for covert operations, on HF through VHF. There are two references
(non-fiction books not about amateur radio) which mention
those. Apparently it was unsuccessful for constant use since no other
books about the CIA, NSA, or DIA mention anything further. Obviously
lunar orbit positions matter to EME.

btw, a lot of the people involved in the 1946 moon-radar were
hams).

1946 was only 1 year after the end of World War II. There was a
considerable number of technical and engineering people still hard at
work doing advanced projects from WWII end through 1946. Project Diana
was a research project for possible military use, to find out if such
moon-bounce methods (the FIRST one done) were consistent and repeatable
according to theory.

Yet amateurs continue to pursue EME, right now, today. Yes, there's no
separate EME test, but there are a significant number of EME questions
on the license exams.

A quick trip to www.ncvec.org will show that current exams (valid until
end of June 2010) have only 6 questions in only the Amateur Extra test.
Those are E3A03 through E3A08. Since there are 738 Questions in the
Extra pool, those EME questions comprise 0.82% of those 738. Doesn't
seem a "significant" number to me. Others' mileage may vary...

The current Question pool has 738 questions for Extra, minimum required
being 500. There are 484 in the General pool, minimum required is 350.
There are 392 in Technician, minimum required is 350. To do all three
tests in one test session is legal but a "memorization" would require
remembering a minimum of 1614 questions having 6456 answers or 8070
total.

73, Len K6LHA