" wrote in
oups.com:

Barry OGrady wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:54:46 -0500, Nada Tapu wrote:

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:23:03 GMT, Slow Code wrote:


Or just lazy people out?

Sc

It certainly didn't keep me out, and I wasn't all that crazy about
learning it, either.

More to the point, are there more licensed amateurs since the code
requirement was removed years ago?

Yes. In the USA at least.

Since the inception of the no-code Technician class here in 1991,
the growth of the Technician class license numbers in the USA
has been continuous. Those now comprise about 49 % of ALL
licensees. The Technician class license numbers are twice that
of General class, the next-largest license class.

Since the "reconstruction" in FCC amateur radio regulations of
2001, the number of licensees grew to peak in July, 2003. At
that time the maximum code test rate was fixed at 5 WPM, all
classes.

A problem now is the attrition of the older licensees. More old-
timers are leaving/expiring (their licenses) than are being
replaced by new (never before licensed in amateur radio)
licensees. Source: www.hamdata.com. That trend has
persisted for three years.

The code test is not THE factor causing it, just one of the
major factors in slowing the increase of new licensees.
Coupled with the stubborn resistance to change of ANY
regulations by olde-tymers, there is little incentive to enter
olde-tyme amateur radio. Ally that with the huge growth of
the Internet in the 15 years it has been public - an Internet
that has spread worldwide with near-instant communications
over that world - and the traditional standards and practices
of olde-tyme ham radio just don't have the appeal to
newcomers they once had.

Elimination of the code test for any license will cause a
spurt in new licensees. While such elimination is not a
guarantee to far-future growth, it will be the significant act
to being CHANGING regulations to better fit the modern times.
Keeping up with changing times is a NECESSITY in
regulations, regardless of the personal desires of the minority
of amateurs making up the olde-tyme group.




You should market your posts to farmers Len. The fertilizer content in
them could green the Sahara.

SC

wrote:
From: on Mon, Oct 30 2006 4:13 am
wrote:
imagines he is "helpful."

I am helpful, Len.

What do you need help with?

His concept of
"helpful" is everyone doing as he says, thinking what he
thinks. That's not reality. It's 'hive mind' stuff.

It's what *you* want, Len. Not me.

"Big Brother" thinking a la George Orwell. :-)

That's what you do, all right. Anyone who disagrees is denounced.

*NO* code test for an amateur radio license means FREEDOM
for amateur radio hobbyists to pursue the OPTION that the
FCC gives all licensed operators...the OPTION of using
any allocated mode in any band below 30 MHz.

They have that freedom now, Len.

You do not.

YOU demand that all newcomers wanting below-30-MHz
privileges MUST take that code test..

I don't "demand", Len. I simply think that a code test is a good idea
for *all* amateur radio licenses.

I also think the written tests could be improved.

.because it was always done.

Nope. Wrong. You've made yet another mistake.

I think the Morse Code test is a good idea for many reasons, but
"because it was always done" isn't one of them.

THAT is the "hive mind," Mother, straight
out of the olde-tymer ARRL's hymnbook.

You're just plain wrong, Len.

What is so "sacred" about having to take that code test
for below-30-MHz operating privileges?

Nothing sacred about it, Len.

It's just a good idea. In fact, I think amateur radio would be better
off if *all* amateur licenses required a Morse Code test. That's just
my opinion.

You keep on and
on and on and on and on about that...yet every other
radio service doesn't require that.

So what? Amateur radio is different. If it wasn't, there would be no
need for it to be a separate radio service.

Ah, but your
RATIONALIZATION (that is all it is) is that amateur
radio is somehow "special" and MUST continue to do as
it has always done, keep on with federal testing for
morse code telegraphy.

No, that's not true at all, Len. You've made yet another mistake.

Virtual enslavement to the ideas
of long-ago radio amateurs who just couldn't keep up
with the times and change.

You mean like somebody who insists that zoning ordinances must never be
changed to allow different land uses?

The emotional necessity you have for some nebulous
'tradition' to keep that code test is just self-defined
bull****.

Y'know, Len, it's easy to tell when you've lost the debate. You tell us
all by the way you go ballistic, start cussing and SHOUTING and using
derogatory nicknames and cuss words.

The fact is that you have no tolerance for opinions different from
yours.

Why are YOU so damn special that YOUR demands
MUST be met by others?

Ask yourself that question, Len.

Ego? Delusions of god-hood?
Are you a Controller, Mother? You have a NEED to CONTROL
others? Why are you against letting others choose for
themselves?

See? There you go!

I'm just expressing my opinion, Len. I think a Morse Code test is a
good thing for Amateur Radio. In fact, I think it would be better if
all radio amateurs had to pass such a test.

*You* were the one who wanted to prevent people under the age of 14
from getting amateur licenses.

*You* were the one who wanted to prevent development of land you did
not own, just because it was near your house.

*You* are the one spamming ECFS with hundreds of pages of commentary,
even though you are not involved in amateur radio at all.

Who is trying to be the controller, Len?

It might be that
doesn't understand 'reality.'
He says he "lives in the ham bands."

Who said that, Len? Give us an exact quote.

Mother, quit that annoying habit. You know damn well
what YOU meant.

Len, if you claim someone wrote something here, you should be able to
back up that claim. Seems to me you can't do that.

You've stooped to misquoting me for some reason. Why? All my posts are
in the archives - if I wrote something, a direct quote would be easy to
find.

I think you know that you are wrong, and are trying to evade the truth.

The rest of us
live in residences like houses or apartments.

I've got one of those.

Ah, but do you LIVE in one? :-)

What do you think?

He has
funny ideas of zoning laws and how they affect hundreds
of peoples' lives about THEIR neighborhood, not to
mention local tax laws.

What funny ideas?

YOURS, Mother.

I'm not your mother, Len. (thank goodness!)

This newsgroup is NOT about local zoning
laws. This newsgroup is NOT about real estate. This
newsgroup is NOT about local tax laws.

Says who? Are you the moderator? I think not!

It's not about a lot of things, but that never stopped you.

YOU live roughly 3000 miles away (if you call that living)
and do NOT participate in my neighborhood association,
haven't even met or even know about the neighborhood, but
you damn well HAVE to intrude and lecture me, bore every-
one else about an incidental NON-AMATEUR-RADIO thing.

I don't think everyone else is bored by my postings.

The fact is that *you* have done exactly what you accuse others of
doing: resisting change, trying to keep others out, holding to old
ways, etc.

Almost every claim you have made about those who support Morse Code
testing can be used to describe your actions toward a simple zoning
change.

Tsk, your whole point of that was just Character
Assassination of me. :-)

Can't kill something that doesn't exist ;-) ;-) ;-)

What did I write about your zoning change that wasn't true, Len?

Since it didn't work, you
MUST keep on and on and on and on with it. It's about
the only 'weapon' you have in your tiny arsenal to fight
against elimination of the code test. :-)

It's a clear and valid analogy. You're the outsider trying to force
your way on a community where you have no investment. Just like an
outside developer trying to build in your neighborhood - except that
the developer invested lots of time, money and effort into the
neighborhood.

Not me, Len. I'm not about hate.

I'm all about justice, fair play, common sense, and accuracy.

Tsk, it must be Election Time since you are sounding
just like every bull****-politician who ever ran. :-)

You mean like the two presidents from your state? They weren't exactly
winners, Len.

Are you running for some kind of "office" in amateur
radio? You want to CONTROL hams and enslave them to
YOUR politics? Sure sounds like it.

Not to anyone who has any sense.

"Accuracy:" Are you still saying that ENIAC was "the
first electronic computer?"

You've made another mistake, Len.

ENIAC was the world's very first fully operational, high speed, general
purpose, electronic
digital computer.

That's what I've repeatedly written, but you misquote me.

[it's not an amateur radio
subject since ENIAC never did any computing for amateur
radio]

How do you know for sure?

Are you going against a Federal Court decision
about that? Good luck and I hope you get admitted to
the Bar so you can re-argue that 1970s decision.

The court decision was about the patents, and the attempt to monopolize
the computer industry.

If you think the ABC machine was an electronic computer in any real
sense, then you really don't know what the words mean. All it could do
was solve systems of linear equations - it didn't even have a
conditional jump instruction. It was a specialized calculator, not a
true computer.

See the chart in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eniac

"Common sense:" The FCC gives all amateurs the OPTION
of using any allocated mode in any allocated band.

That's true. Or they can come up with new modes, document them, and FCC
will allow the new modes as well.

Yet
you demand that the morse code test be required for any
radio amateur desiring below-30-MHz privileges...even
though the FCC has stated at least three times in public
(beginning in 1990) that it sees no value for their
licensing purposes.

I don't "demand" that, Len. I just think it's a good idea. And not just
for HF but for all radio amateurs.

FCC has stated all sorts of things, btw. Doesn't mean they are always
right. Do you think BPL is a good thing? FCC seems to think it is.

If FCC is so against Morse Code testing, why wasn't the test just
dropped in the summer of 2003? All it would take is a Memorandum Report
and Order.

The FCC is the one with the NPRM
on deleting that code test.

Then why are you so upset? You're not involved. You're not part of
Amateur Radio, and it's pretty clear you never will be.

YOUR idea of "common
sense" is apparently a strict obediance to whatever the
ARRL says. :-)

Heck no, Len. ARRL wants the Morse Code test kept only for Extra. I
want it for all radio amateurs.

"Fair play:" As long as everyone in here agrees with
your desires as a PCTA amateur extra, they are "fair."
If they disagree, your "fair play" vanishes. You then
become the ruler-whipping Mother Superior intent on
character-assassination. Tsk, we've all seen that.

Len, you're talking about yourself - as usual.

"Justice:" Wow, what a concept! The PCTA concept of
"justice" is simply Do As We Say! Keep the code test
forever and ever even if the REASONS for it have
evaporated long ago. Keep The Code Test because all
the PCTA had to take one and everyone else had
damn well take one, too!

No, Len. I've never used those reasons.

You really do seem to know that you've lost.

Accuracy, Len. You can't just push the facts down the memory hole.

You mean like "pushing" FACTS of a Federal Court
decision in regards to your beloved ENIAC *not*
accepted as a "first?" :-)

ENIAC was the world's very first fully operational, high speed,
general purpose, electronic
digital computer.

That's a fact.

Mother, the ARRL is NOT the sole purveyor of radio
history.

Nobody says it is, Len.

But when it comes to facts, you sure come up short.

There are other sources, but you keep
trying to push ONLY the ARRL "facts" up people's hole.

Do you mean that I point out your mistakes?

That's about ALL you do to my postings, Mother. :-)

Debate is all about showing the mistakes in an opponent's reasoning,
Len. IOW, pointing out their mistakes. You make so many mistakes here
that it can be difficult to keep up!

You love playing the prissy pedant and get amnesia when
you GET CORRECTED ON YOUR OWN MISTAKES! :-)

Which mistakes are those, Len?

Does too much morse code affect your short-term memory?

Nope - just the opposite.

Give you selective amnesia?

Nope - just the opposite. Improves the memory.

Increase your imagination?

Yep - and creativity, too. All sorts of good things. You wouldn't know
about them, of course.

A sort of junior-league Major Dud (Robeson) now.

Did you ever find the database that says whether or not he was in the
US military?

There are databases showing who was NOT in the military?!?

Where? If there were, YOU would be on one! :-)

IOW, you haven't found the database K8MN referred to.

You have NEVER served in any military, yet your own quaint
sense of "justice, fair play, common sense, and accuracy"
MAKES you "correct" anyone about anything military? Hey,
no problem, you can get support for replacing the Secretary
of Defense any time from other PCTA! You can then replace
the MARS Directive and say "hams run MARS!" :-)

There you go, attacking the person rather than the argument.

Want to see a digitized copy of my DD-214, Mother? I'm sure
you would considering your sense of "justice, fair play,
common sense, and ACCURACY." I might even add a copy of my
Honorable Discharge; I would have to go get it from the
Safety Deposit box at the bank, but it would be for "justice,
fair play, common sense, and accuracy." Those are two
documents which YOU will NEVER have.

So what? Does the possession of those documents somehow mean you are
infallible, Len? You seem to think that way. But it is not so.

Does YOUR concept of "justice, fair play, common sense, and
accuracy" ALLOW some bull****ters to claim military service
even if they haven't produced ONE documentary PROOF of it
for years?

Why should anyone have to provide *you* with proof, Len?

Can't you find the database K8MN referenced?

You claim to know who served in the US military and who didn't. Yet it
seems you can't find proof on your own.

Why should anyone provide you with proof of their military service?

"Slow Code" wrote in message
et...
" wrote in
ups.com:

From: on Mon, Oct 30 2006 4:13 am

wrote:
imagines he is "helpful."

I am helpful, Len.

Mother Superior is back in her knuckle-spank-with-ruler mode.

Bad Habit, Mother. :-)

His concept of
"helpful" is everyone doing as he says, thinking what he
thinks. That's not reality. It's 'hive mind' stuff.

It's what *you* want, Len. Not me.

"Big Brother" thinking a la George Orwell. :-)

*NO* code test for an amateur radio license means FREEDOM
for amateur radio hobbyists to pursue the OPTION that the
FCC gives all licensed operators...the OPTION of using
any allocated mode in any band below 30 MHz.

YOU demand that all newcomers wanting below-30-MHz
privileges MUST take that code test...because it was
always done. THAT is the "hive mind," Mother, straight
out of the olde-tymer ARRL's hymnbook.

What is so "sacred" about having to take that code test
for below-30-MHz operating privileges? You keep on and
on and on and on and on about that...yet every other
radio service doesn't require that. Ah, but your
RATIONALIZATION (that is all it is) is that amateur
radio is somehow "special" and MUST continue to do as
it has always done, keep on with federal testing for
morse code telegraphy. Virtual enslavement to the ideas
of long-ago radio amateurs who just couldn't keep up
with the times and change.

The emotional necessity you have for some nebulous
'tradition' to keep that code test is just self-defined
bull****. Why are YOU so damn special that YOUR demands
MUST be met by others? Ego? Delusions of god-hood?
Are you a Controller, Mother? You have a NEED to CONTROL
others? Why are you against letting others choose for
themselves?


It might be that
doesn't understand 'reality.'
He says he "lives in the ham bands."

Who said that, Len? Give us an exact quote.

Mother, quit that annoying habit. You know damn well
what YOU meant.

The rest of us
live in residences like houses or apartments.

I've got one of those.

Ah, but do you LIVE in one? :-)

He has
funny ideas of zoning laws and how they affect hundreds
of peoples' lives about THEIR neighborhood, not to
mention local tax laws.

What funny ideas?

YOURS, Mother. This newsgroup is NOT about local zoning
laws. This newsgroup is NOT about real estate. This
newsgroup is NOT about local tax laws.

YOU live roughly 3000 miles away (if you call that living)
and do NOT participate in my neighborhood association,
haven't even met or even know about the neighborhood, but
you damn well HAVE to intrude and lecture me, bore every-
one else about an incidental NON-AMATEUR-RADIO thing.

Tsk, your whole point of that was just Character
Assassination of me. :-) Since it didn't work, you
MUST keep on and on and on and on with it. It's about
the only 'weapon' you have in your tiny arsenal to fight
against elimination of the code test. :-)

Not me, Len. I'm not about hate.

I'm all about justice, fair play, common sense, and accuracy.

Tsk, it must be Election Time since you are sounding
just like every bull****-politician who ever ran. :-)

Are you running for some kind of "office" in amateur
radio? You want to CONTROL hams and enslave them to
YOUR politics? Sure sounds like it.

"Accuracy:" Are you still saying that ENIAC was "the
first electronic computer?" [it's not an amateur radio
subject since ENIAC never did any computing for amateur
radio] Are you going against a Federal Court decision
about that? Good luck and I hope you get admitted to
the Bar so you can re-argue that 1970s decision.

"Common sense:" The FCC gives all amateurs the OPTION
of using any allocated mode in any allocated band. Yet
you demand that the morse code test be required for any
radio amateur desiring below-30-MHz privileges...even
though the FCC has stated at least three times in public
(beginning in 1990) that it sees no value for their
licensing purposes. The FCC is the one with the NPRM
on deleting that code test. YOUR idea of "common
sense" is apparently a strict obediance to whatever the
ARRL says. :-)

"Fair play:" As long as everyone in here agrees with
your desires as a PCTA amateur extra, they are "fair."
If they disagree, your "fair play" vanishes. You then
become the ruler-whipping Mother Superior intent on
character-assassination. Tsk, we've all seen that.

"Justice:" Wow, what a concept! The PCTA concept of
"justice" is simply Do As We Say! Keep the code test
forever and ever even if the REASONS for it have
evaporated long ago. Keep The Code Test because all
the PCTA had to take one and everyone else had
damn well take one, too!


Accuracy, Len. You can't just push the facts down the memory hole.

You mean like "pushing" FACTS of a Federal Court
decision in regards to your beloved ENIAC *not*
accepted as a "first?" :-)

Mother, the ARRL is NOT the sole purveyor of radio
history. There are other sources, but you keep
trying to push ONLY the ARRL "facts" up people's hole.


In reality, a quarter-wave whip antenna is a lot longer than 3 and 1/4
inches.

Not at 731 MHz. :-)

Mother Superior, PUT DOWN THE RULER. I did correct my
typo of accidental shifting of the apostrophe key.

Okay, you have just TOSSED OUT your "accuracy" and
"fair play" in favor of manufactured Character
Assassination. You are going to DWELL on that typo
WITHOUT acknowledging my own correction.

Standard Operating Procedure for you, Mother.


Do you mean that I point out your mistakes?

That's about ALL you do to my postings, Mother. :-)

You love playing the prissy pedant and get amnesia when
you GET CORRECTED ON YOUR OWN MISTAKES! :-)

Does too much morse code affect your short-term memory?
Give you selective amnesia? Increase your imagination?


A sort of junior-league Major Dud (Robeson) now.

Did you ever find the database that says whether or not he was in the
US military?

There are databases showing who was NOT in the military?!?

Where? If there were, YOU would be on one! :-)

You have NEVER served in any military, yet your own quaint
sense of "justice, fair play, common sense, and accuracy"
MAKES you "correct" anyone about anything military? Hey,
no problem, you can get support for replacing the Secretary
of Defense any time from other PCTA! You can then replace
the MARS Directive and say "hams run MARS!" :-)

Want to see a digitized copy of my DD-214, Mother? I'm sure
you would considering your sense of "justice, fair play,
common sense, and ACCURACY." I might even add a copy of my
Honorable Discharge; I would have to go get it from the
Safety Deposit box at the bank, but it would be for "justice,
fair play, common sense, and accuracy." Those are two
documents which YOU will NEVER have.

Does YOUR concept of "justice, fair play, common sense, and
accuracy" ALLOW some bull****ters to claim military service
even if they haven't produced ONE documentary PROOF of it
for years? Yes, I'm sure it does as long as they champion
morse code testing for amateur licenses. You seem to love
and condone anyone who is against NCTAs.

Gotta love that "justice, fair play, common sense, and
accuracy" of yours, Mother. Right up there with all the
dictators of human history. You keep up the good work of
1906 thinking in the year 2006.





What's wrong with letting us keep our ham traditions?

SC


Is being an idiotic moron and a jackass ****tard really something you want
keep?

U-Know-Who wrote:
"Slow Code" wrote in message
et...
" wrote in
ups.com:


What's wrong with letting us keep our ham traditions?

SC


Is being an idiotic moron and a jackass ****tard really something you want
keep?
Iwould not have used exactrly those words that is what he wants he want
the ARS to be the Arhchiac radio service and die in about 20 to 25
years tops

wrote:
wrote:
From: on Mon, Oct 30 2006 4:13 am

*NO* code test for an amateur radio license means FREEDOM
for amateur radio hobbyists to pursue the OPTION that the
FCC gives all licensed operators...the OPTION of using
any allocated mode in any band below 30 MHz.

They have that freedom now, Len.

only if they are willing to violate the law, JIM I do not and if you
have your way never will have that freedom

I spent 5 years trying very very hard to get it. I have little (if
anything) to show for that effort.

in most form of law something become permenet or impossible if attemped
for a full year

from the ProCode side we see NO room for anything exhalations to work
and slave I am certain I have put far more effort on code along than
you put into in ALL of your licensure(not your day to day haming)

no the world is not fair and while in principle my satus even if I am
the only american should allow for an exception it seems I am far from
alone I recall reading of someone spending 10 years and finaly making
it. why is such effort justified for the option to never use it again
esp in a world where Computers can if not operate the mode WELL (how
well they do it is debated) can certainly operate the mode better than
I (and others) ever would be

would you ask a man with with hearing problem not to use a hearing aid
to take the code test he can't do the deed without it? then why deny me
and others our right use your pcs or other devices that allow to use
Morse Coded CW

I have operated quite abit on machine Morsed CW . did a lot sending
practice stuff for my firend working on the higher code speed required
in 1997- 99. anybody that can could follow my typing with zero proofing
(instead of the minimal proofing here on RRAP) could pass a test . OTOH
I found I could read there "buig sent stuff fairly well certainly
enough for my brain which is used to seeing text in a distorted manner
could follow indeed during this code practice on 6 I even scored some DX

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Mon, Oct 30 2006 4:13 am

*NO* code test for an amateur radio license means FREEDOM
for amateur radio hobbyists to pursue the OPTION that the
FCC gives all licensed operators...the OPTION of using
any allocated mode in any band below 30 MHz.

They have that freedom now, Len.

only if they are willing to violate the law, JIM I do not and if you
have your way never will have that freedom

I spent 5 years trying very very hard to get it. I have little (if
anything) to show for that effort.

in most form of law something become permenet or impossible if attemped
for a full year

from the ProCode side we see NO room for anything exhalations to work
and slave I am certain I have put far more effort on code along than
you put into in ALL of your licensure(not your day to day haming)

no the world is not fair and while in principle my satus even if I am
the only american should allow for an exception it seems I am far from
alone I recall reading of someone spending 10 years and finaly making
it. why is such effort justified for the option to never use it again
esp in a world where Computers can if not operate the mode WELL (how
well they do it is debated) can certainly operate the mode better than
I (and others) ever would be

would you ask a man with with hearing problem not to use a hearing aid
to take the code test he can't do the deed without it? then why deny me
and others our right use your pcs or other devices that allow to use
Morse Coded CW

I have operated quite abit on machine Morsed CW . did a lot sending
practice stuff for my firend working on the higher code speed required
in 1997- 99. anybody that can could follow my typing with zero proofing
(instead of the minimal proofing here on RRAP) could pass a test . OTOH
I found I could read there "buig sent stuff fairly well certainly
enough for my brain which is used to seeing text in a distorted manner
could follow indeed during this code practice on 6 I even scored some DX


STFU marqueer

"U-Know-Who" wrote in
:


"Slow Code" wrote in message
et...
" wrote in
ups.com:

From: on Mon, Oct 30 2006 4:13 am

wrote:
imagines he is "helpful."

I am helpful, Len.

Mother Superior is back in her knuckle-spank-with-ruler mode.

Bad Habit, Mother. :-)

His concept of
"helpful" is everyone doing as he says, thinking what he
thinks. That's not reality. It's 'hive mind' stuff.

It's what *you* want, Len. Not me.

"Big Brother" thinking a la George Orwell. :-)

*NO* code test for an amateur radio license means FREEDOM
for amateur radio hobbyists to pursue the OPTION that the
FCC gives all licensed operators...the OPTION of using
any allocated mode in any band below 30 MHz.

YOU demand that all newcomers wanting below-30-MHz
privileges MUST take that code test...because it was
always done. THAT is the "hive mind," Mother, straight
out of the olde-tymer ARRL's hymnbook.

What is so "sacred" about having to take that code test
for below-30-MHz operating privileges? You keep on and
on and on and on and on about that...yet every other
radio service doesn't require that. Ah, but your
RATIONALIZATION (that is all it is) is that amateur
radio is somehow "special" and MUST continue to do as
it has always done, keep on with federal testing for
morse code telegraphy. Virtual enslavement to the ideas
of long-ago radio amateurs who just couldn't keep up
with the times and change.

The emotional necessity you have for some nebulous
'tradition' to keep that code test is just self-defined
bull****. Why are YOU so damn special that YOUR demands
MUST be met by others? Ego? Delusions of god-hood?
Are you a Controller, Mother? You have a NEED to CONTROL
others? Why are you against letting others choose for
themselves?


It might be that
doesn't understand 'reality.'
He says he "lives in the ham bands."

Who said that, Len? Give us an exact quote.

Mother, quit that annoying habit. You know damn well
what YOU meant.

The rest of us
live in residences like houses or apartments.

I've got one of those.

Ah, but do you LIVE in one? :-)

He has
funny ideas of zoning laws and how they affect hundreds
of peoples' lives about THEIR neighborhood, not to
mention local tax laws.

What funny ideas?

YOURS, Mother. This newsgroup is NOT about local zoning
laws. This newsgroup is NOT about real estate. This
newsgroup is NOT about local tax laws.

YOU live roughly 3000 miles away (if you call that living)
and do NOT participate in my neighborhood association,
haven't even met or even know about the neighborhood, but
you damn well HAVE to intrude and lecture me, bore every-
one else about an incidental NON-AMATEUR-RADIO thing.

Tsk, your whole point of that was just Character
Assassination of me. :-) Since it didn't work, you
MUST keep on and on and on and on with it. It's about
the only 'weapon' you have in your tiny arsenal to fight
against elimination of the code test. :-)

Not me, Len. I'm not about hate.

I'm all about justice, fair play, common sense, and accuracy.

Tsk, it must be Election Time since you are sounding
just like every bull****-politician who ever ran. :-)

Are you running for some kind of "office" in amateur
radio? You want to CONTROL hams and enslave them to
YOUR politics? Sure sounds like it.

"Accuracy:" Are you still saying that ENIAC was "the
first electronic computer?" [it's not an amateur radio
subject since ENIAC never did any computing for amateur
radio] Are you going against a Federal Court decision
about that? Good luck and I hope you get admitted to
the Bar so you can re-argue that 1970s decision.

"Common sense:" The FCC gives all amateurs the OPTION
of using any allocated mode in any allocated band. Yet
you demand that the morse code test be required for any
radio amateur desiring below-30-MHz privileges...even
though the FCC has stated at least three times in public
(beginning in 1990) that it sees no value for their
licensing purposes. The FCC is the one with the NPRM
on deleting that code test. YOUR idea of "common
sense" is apparently a strict obediance to whatever the
ARRL says. :-)

"Fair play:" As long as everyone in here agrees with
your desires as a PCTA amateur extra, they are "fair."
If they disagree, your "fair play" vanishes. You then
become the ruler-whipping Mother Superior intent on
character-assassination. Tsk, we've all seen that.

"Justice:" Wow, what a concept! The PCTA concept of
"justice" is simply Do As We Say! Keep the code test
forever and ever even if the REASONS for it have
evaporated long ago. Keep The Code Test because all
the PCTA had to take one and everyone else had
damn well take one, too!


Accuracy, Len. You can't just push the facts down the memory hole.

You mean like "pushing" FACTS of a Federal Court
decision in regards to your beloved ENIAC *not*
accepted as a "first?" :-)

Mother, the ARRL is NOT the sole purveyor of radio
history. There are other sources, but you keep
trying to push ONLY the ARRL "facts" up people's hole.


In reality, a quarter-wave whip antenna is a lot longer than 3 and 1/4
inches.

Not at 731 MHz. :-)

Mother Superior, PUT DOWN THE RULER. I did correct my
typo of accidental shifting of the apostrophe key.

Okay, you have just TOSSED OUT your "accuracy" and
"fair play" in favor of manufactured Character
Assassination. You are going to DWELL on that typo
WITHOUT acknowledging my own correction.

Standard Operating Procedure for you, Mother.


Do you mean that I point out your mistakes?

That's about ALL you do to my postings, Mother. :-)

You love playing the prissy pedant and get amnesia when
you GET CORRECTED ON YOUR OWN MISTAKES! :-)

Does too much morse code affect your short-term memory?
Give you selective amnesia? Increase your imagination?


A sort of junior-league Major Dud (Robeson) now.

Did you ever find the database that says whether or not he was in the
US military?

There are databases showing who was NOT in the military?!?

Where? If there were, YOU would be on one! :-)

You have NEVER served in any military, yet your own quaint
sense of "justice, fair play, common sense, and accuracy"
MAKES you "correct" anyone about anything military? Hey,
no problem, you can get support for replacing the Secretary
of Defense any time from other PCTA! You can then replace
the MARS Directive and say "hams run MARS!" :-)

Want to see a digitized copy of my DD-214, Mother? I'm sure
you would considering your sense of "justice, fair play,
common sense, and ACCURACY." I might even add a copy of my
Honorable Discharge; I would have to go get it from the
Safety Deposit box at the bank, but it would be for "justice,
fair play, common sense, and accuracy." Those are two
documents which YOU will NEVER have.

Does YOUR concept of "justice, fair play, common sense, and
accuracy" ALLOW some bull****ters to claim military service
even if they haven't produced ONE documentary PROOF of it
for years? Yes, I'm sure it does as long as they champion
morse code testing for amateur licenses. You seem to love
and condone anyone who is against NCTAs.

Gotta love that "justice, fair play, common sense, and
accuracy" of yours, Mother. Right up there with all the
dictators of human history. You keep up the good work of
1906 thinking in the year 2006.





What's wrong with letting us keep our ham traditions?

SC


Is being an idiotic moron and a jackass ****tard really something you
want keep?


That's only a problem for you. You're to lazy and mentally challenged to
work your way up to that level. How's CB, work any DX lately?

SC

wrote:

It's a much-ballyhooed MYTH that "CW" was essential to
radio comms even during WWII.

Was this a myth, Len?


http://www.eham.net/articles/15064

wrote:
wrote:

It's a much-ballyhooed MYTH that "CW" was essential to
radio comms even during WWII.

Was this a myth, Len?

Naw, Jim. Len's just made another of his numerous factual errors.


http://www.eham.net/articles/15064

Dave K8MN

wrote:
From: on Thurs, Oct 26 2006 3:36am

wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Sun, Oct 22 2006 8:47am
"Opus-" wrote in message

The major
(in population) nation administrations have dropped their
morse code testing or substitute other tests in lieu of
morse code.

How do you know?

:-) Try reading the No-Code International website and
researching the statements in there.

Which statements?

Those are true statements.

How do you know for sure?

Indeed, all other US radio services operating
below 30 MHz do NOT use morse code radiotelegraphy.

Why is that so important?

It SHOULD be obvious to all but the conditioned-thinking
Believer. :-)

IOW, you can't explain it.

It should be obvious that the so-called "advantages" of
morse code radiotelegraphy are so few...ergo, it isn't
worth having a license TEST for it.

You're presuming your conclusion.

Especially since the
FCC hasn't mandated exclusivity for morse code radio-
telegraphy for years.

Did they ever?

Why should radio amateurs be held elevated to some
special significance?

It's not about 'special significance".

Yes, it is. :-)

See "VANITY" call signs...see the old "Extra" requirements
for 20 WPM code tests.

What's wrong with vanity callsigns?

See all the "gotta upgrade!"
agit-prop from ARRL where morsemanship is promoted way
over all other modes.

Where? All I ever saw was encouragement.

And as far as "promoted way over other modes", the amount of space
given to Morse Code in ARRL publications is not out of line with the
mode's popularity.

The basic fallacy of pro-coder thinking is that "all"
have some innate ability to learn morse code.

There are obviously those who cannot learn it - just as there are those
who cannot learn to speak, or read and write, or who cannot pass the
written tests.

Just as there are some in here who cannot tell time,
cannot understand that a federal court decision in the
early 1970s TOOK AWAY the claimed "firsts" of ENIAC.
:-)

A court cannot change the facts, Len. All that court decision did was
to render an opinion on some patents.

The military aptitude testing was done to find those who could learn
the fastest and reach the highest levels of skill in the least time.

You "KNOW" this by first-hand experience,

Is my statement correct, Len?

No, you could NOT know any of that. In fact, *I* was
the one who FIRST mentioned it in here. :-)

So what? Is the statement correct or not?

I took one of those morse aptitude tests, along with
about a dozen other aptitude tests, back in 1952.

And you didn't score near the top on the Morse Code aptitude, did you?
I think that was the start of your anti-Morse crusade.

The requirements for military radio telegraphers were much higher than
for amateurs, and the military could not afford lots of time to train
them.

The "requirements for military radio telegraphers [sic]"
topped out at 20 WPM for Army Field Radio MOS,

The US Navy had higher requirements, Len.
..
Same rate as amateur extras prior to 2000. Sunnuvagun!

But not the same requirements, Len. Did the Army consider one minute
out of five to be a passing grade? Did the Army use multiple-choice or
fill-in-the-blank Morse Code tests?

I stand by my statement.

btw, the existence of such aptitude testing proves that the US military
needed large numbers of Morse Code skilled radio operators during WW2.

you just crapped. :-)

What do you mean by that, Len?

Is it some odd slang for "made a completely true and convincing
statement"?

All you have for "proof"
of that is what the ARRL has written.

Not at all, Len. It's the reason why such testing was done. Why else?

World War II *ended* 61 years ago. [the Korean War has
*never* ended...it is in a state of truce begun 53 years
ago]

So what? Morse Code played an important role in both.

The "upgrade requirements" were lobbied for to emphasize
morse code radiotelegraphy skill. That is history.

Who lobbied for those requirements, Len?

ARRL, of course. :-)

Where is that documented?

As with all US federal agencies, the FCC does accept
citizen commentary to them regarding radio regulations.
The FCC responds to Petitions submitted by US citizens
in regards to those radio regulations. [however, not
with blinding speeds of decision in regards to amateur
radio] Nowhere does the FCC discriminate between those
are already licensed in amateur radio versus those not
licensed. FCC does not treat the group of already-
licensed as some kind of fraternal order of the already-
licensed to be listened to over and above all other
interested citizens.

The FCC accepts comments from everyone - not just citizens.

No kidding?!? :-)

Then explain the prevailing attitude in *here* (and you
are one of them) about "only" licensed amateurs "should"
comment about amateur radio regulations? :-)

You are telling an untruth, Len. I have never stated anything like
that.

It does NOT affect
those already legally licensed as radio amateurs...except
in the limited conditions of certain already-licensed
Technician classes. That code test does NOT legally
affect ANY other already-licensed US radio amateur.

It affects them in many ways. If amateur radio should change for the
worse because
of changes in license requirements, those who are already licensed
would be affected.

Why "worse," ? Afraid you won't have any new coders
to play with? :-)

Would you suffer Great Emotional Harm if the code test went
away? WHY? You ALREADY have YOUR amateur extra class.

What Great Emotional Harm came to you as a result of the zoning change
in your neighborhood, Len? The change you tried to stop?

Not true. If amateur radio is made worse by rules changes, all involved
are affected. You, who are not involved, are unaffected.

"Not involved?" :-)

Yes, Len. You're not involved. You're not a radio amateur and will
probably never be one. You don't make, sell or buy any products for the
amateur radio market, you don't write books or articles for radio
amateurs, and there's no indication you'll do any of that in the
future. All you do is write a few long, error-filled posts in a couple
of Usenet newsgroups and spam ECFS.

Your boast about "going for Extra right out of the box" remains
unfulfilled after almost 7 years.

Amateur radio isn't like that. We use a shared and limited resource -
the radio spectrum.

So does CB. So does R-C. So does GMRS. So does GPS.
So does Maritime Radio Service. So does GMDSS. So
does Aviation Radio Service. So does Media [radio
broadcasting]. So does the entire PLMRS...which includes
all the public safety radio services, railroad radio
service, business radio, paging services. So does
cellular telephony. So does the US government and US
military.

Is there a point to all that?

Don't get off on your "amateurs are conservators of the
EM spectrum" kick you've done before.

When did I say anything like that?

Let's see your "proof", Len.