CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote


73 de Alun, N3KIP

(20wpm Extra, 100% phone op)


Alun,

With all due respect, your signature line kind of reveals your agenda. We
aren't talking about Extra's who don't use CW/rtty/data. The folks we're
talking about here are Generals, the most populous HF license class in the US.
On 75m they have just had their CW/rtty/data spectrum reduced by 2/3rds. That's
outrageous!

73, de Hans, K0HB

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

wrote


funny I thought they could still CW everywhere in band


That' may be true in theory, but not in practice. You can't use CW on
frequencies which your license class prohibits. Generals just lost 150kHz of
prime CW/rtty/data spectrum from 3.6 to 3.75MHz, the other parts of the band
their license class doesn't allow. So much for "CW everywhere in band".

73, de Hans, K0HB

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

KØHB wrote:
On 75m they have just had their CW/rtty/data spectrum reduced by 2/3rds.

Hans, has CW been barred from parts of 75m? I haven't
read the R&O.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

wrote


sorry they may well have lost spectrum wher they can data i have n't
looked at the details but the rules concerning CW use have not changed


No, the rules concerning CW use have not changed. Those rules have never
allowed a General to transmit CW (or anything else) in frequencies reserved for
Extra and Advanced. In the case we're discussing the 150kHz from 3600 to 3750
have now been reserved for Extra and Advanced, and are now off limits to General
who previously could transmit CW/rtty/data in that segment.

73, de Hans, K0HB

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

KØHB wrote:
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote
73 de Alun, N3KIP

(20wpm Extra, 100% phone op)

Alun,

With all due respect, your signature line kind of reveals your agenda. We
aren't talking about Extra's who don't use CW/rtty/data. The folks we're
talking about here are Generals, the most populous HF license class in the US.
On 75m they have just had their CW/rtty/data spectrum reduced by 2/3rds. That's
outrageous!

73, de Hans, K0HB

Here, I'll have a go.

When the new changes go into effect:

Generals gain 50 kHz of 'phone but lose 150 kHz of cw/rtty (1:3 ratio
of gained/lost bandspace)
Advanceds gain 75 kHz of 'phone but lose 100 kHz of cw/rtty (3:4 ratio)
Extras gain 150 kHz of 'phone but lose 150 kHz of cw/rtty (1:1)
Novices and codetested Techs gain 75 kHz in one part of the band but
lose 75 kHz elsewhere (3:2)

Do you see the disparity, particularly for Generals? Why should it
exist? What did Generals do to merit losing so much spectrum?

Why can't the low end of 75 be moved 50 kHz instead of 150 kHz, and the
lower limit of each 'phone subband moved down 50 kHz? Then, each
license class would gain as many kHz of 'phone as they lose CW/rtty.
1:1 ratio for everyone.

If you don't think 50 kHz is enough, make it 75 kHz. The point is that
the most populous license class on the band *loses* the most total kHz!
The ratio is 1 kHz gained for 3 kHz lost - why?

How much will 3600-3700 be used when it is Extra-only?

---

One more question:

Why isn't rtty/data - particularly wider-than-1 kHz-data - allowed in
the 'phone bands? Or rather, why should that restriction remain,
particularly on a band that will be 4:1 phone/narrow modes? How are
those modes any different from SSTV or CW in terms of compatibility?

It seems to me that a combination voice-data mode would have all sorts
of uses in amateur radio. Imagine being in QSO with someone on SSB, and
being able to send a data file to them without having to QSY. In fact,
with a properly-designed rig, the data could be sent simultaneously on
the opposite sideband, or on the suppressed-carrier frequency if a mode
like PSK31 were used for data. Yet under current rules none of that is
allowed, and the 80/75 bandspace where data modes will be allowed for
*any* class of license will decrease from 250 kHz to 100 kHz - why?

73 de Jim, N2EY

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote


Hans, has CW been barred from parts of 75m? I haven't
read the R&O.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com


No, but Generals will be evicted from 3600-3750 if the R&O stands as written.

73, de Hans, K0HB

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

KØHB wrote:
wrote


sorry they may well have lost spectrum wher they can data i have n't
looked at the details but the rules concerning CW use have not changed


No, the rules concerning CW use have not changed. Those rules have never
allowed a General to transmit CW (or anything else) in frequencies reserved for
Extra and Advanced. In the case we're discussing the 150kHz from 3600 to 3750
have now been reserved for Extra and Advanced, and are now off limits to General
who previously could transmit CW/rtty/data in that segment.
hmm they lost acutals hz did they? is that what you are tlaking around
or did things just get shuffed around same number hz justchanging the
mode avalable

in the later I say where the beef if they lose acutaul hz for any use
(total number for all modes then I have to wonder

73, de Hans, K0HB

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

KØHB wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote
Hans, has CW been barred from parts of 75m? I haven't
read the R&O.

No, but Generals will be evicted from 3600-3750 if the R&O stands as written.

I thought there was an unwritten law that no new
rule would cause any loss of privileges. Are you
sure the FCC actually did that?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote


I thought there was an unwritten law that no new
rule would cause any loss of privileges. Are you
sure the FCC actually did that?


If it wasn't the FCC it was someone who very much looks like them. Full R&O is
at http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-149A1.doc or you can
get a short version at http://www.arrl.org

73, de Hans, K0HB

CW-forever Guys are gonna go balistic!
 

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
. ..
Slow Code wrote in news:6tgXg.8071$Y24.103
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:

"Iitoi" wrote in
ink.net:

80M and 40M phone band expansion

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-149A1.doc


I don't know if we'll get Mad right away but it's clear the FCC and the
ARRL want to drive all good hams out of the service. Little by little
they'll take away the non-phone portions of the bands and hand it over to
the phone users. Like a frog in a pot of water that's raised to boiling
point, one day us real hams will find we have to place to communicate on
the ham bands that doesn't sound like Citizens Band.

SC


Here's a reality check.

On 80m the rest of the world, except Canada, has always had phone down to
3600 as far back as I can remember, and we are merely joining them. The VE
phone ops still have to stay above 3700, I think.

On 40m the international bandplans have phone down to 7040 except in
Region
3 where it is 7030. The only countries that I know of where you can't use
phone down to 7040 are Mexico (7050) and the USA (now 7125 after the
change).

US hams outside Region 2 have had phone down to 7075 for years, and I am
on
record as suggesting that we should have that in the mainland US. It's
hard
to see why not when you actually look at what the rest of the world is
doing.

At the same time countries in Region 1 aren't supposed to get access to
7100-7200 until the middle of 2007. Many of them already have, but for
those that haven't, a phone subband that goes down to 7125 still doesn't
even reach the top edge of their whole band. Doubtless some of them will
be
late in implementing the extra spectrum, so forced split working will drag
on a while longer. How would you like it if your 40m CW allocation were on
frequencies that were off limits to the DX?

On 20m and 15m we still have 50 kHz less phone on each band than all other
countries. Although General and Advanced got bigger phone subbands on 15
(as well as 80 and 40), the bottom edge of phone didn't move on 15 (or
20).

73 de Alun, N3KIP

(20wpm Extra, 100% phone op)


Keep in mind that the US has more hams than the entire rest of the world
combined if you don't include Japan in that count. So there is the
potential for problems if our voice allocations go too low. Our regulations
need to take that into account. As far as 40m goes, it will be a better
solution if they can move the broadcasters out and make it a worldwide ham
allocation up to 7.300. If the rest of the world could go to 7.3, that
would open up a tremendous amount of space for other countries.

Dee, N8UZE