"KØHB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote

Why? There is nothing there that is harmful to CW in the least.

As others here have pointed out, the current cw/rtty/data 225kHz segment
between 3525-3750 is being compressed to just 75kHz between 3525-3600.
That's a 3:1 compression ratio.

Now before you start your chant about "CW can transmit anywhere", consider
that this R&O puts 25% of the 75/80m band in the exclusive hands of Extras
and another 20% in the exclusive hands of Extra/Advanced. So almost half
of the band isn't available under *any mode* to Generals. As Iitoi
pointed out, 80m CW has long been a hotbed of public service and traffic
handling nets (which depend on Generals for manpower) --- good luck on
this one now!

73, de Hans, K0HB

Good reason to upgrade then. After reading the various FCC items, it looks
like they really want people to upgrade clear to the top license anyway.

Dee, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..



Good reason to upgrade then.

Ah, yes...... "let them eat cake"

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
. ..



Good reason to upgrade then.

Ah, yes...... "let them eat cake"

73, de Hans, K0HB


Not really. Based on everything that I have read, the object of having a
series of license classes was so that people could take the journey in
smaller, more manageable steps. It does not seem like it was intended that
people would only go part way and say "good enough".

I have recently elmered a woman to her Extra class license. She had no
technical background and little to no experience in amateur radio even
though she had a license (she never really got active). She passed with
flying colors. So any one can do it if they so choose. By the way she is
now quite active in the club, is getting on the air, and she will be joining
me to participate in the November Sweeps. While we will try for the Clean
Sweep, our main goal is to get all states so she can apply for WAS.

Dee, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:

Based on everything that I have read, the object of having a
series of license classes was so that people could take the journey in
smaller, more manageable steps. It does not seem like it was intended that
people would only go part way and say "good enough".

I have recently elmered a woman to her Extra class license. She had no
technical background and little to no experience in amateur radio even
though she had a license (she never really got active). She passed with
flying colors. So any one can do it if they so choose. By the way she is
now quite active in the club, is getting on the air, and she will be joining
me to participate in the November Sweeps. While we will try for the Clean
Sweep, our main goal is to get all states so she can apply for WAS.

All good stuff - but that's not really the issue.

I'm all for multiple license classes, incentives, increasing
privileges, etc.

But I think the problem K0HB is pointing out has to do with how those
incentives are generated.

It's one thing to generate incentive by offering more privileges than
you have now.

It's a very different thing to generate incentive by taking away some
privileges, then requiring an upgrade to get them back.

Right now all Generals and Advanceds (something like 200,000 amateurs)
can use 3600-3750 for CW/data. After the new rules, they will not be
able to use those freqs at all.

Yes, they gain 3800-3850, but that's a gain of 50 kHz phone/image for a
loss of 150.kHz CW/data.

Or look at it percentagewise. Right now, Generals have access to
3525-3750 and 3850-4000. That's 375 kHz total - 75% of the total band.
They have access to 90% of the non-phone bandspace and 60% of the
'phone bandspace.

After the change, Generals will have access to 3525-3600 and 3800-4000.
That's 275 kHz total - 55% of the total band. They will have access to
75% of the non-phone bandspace and 50% of the 'phone bandspace.

Back in the 1960s, the thing that ticked off some hams was not that the
idea of upgrading. It was the idea that the "incentive" to upgrade came
from having existing privileges taken away, rather than new ones added.


History repeats.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dee Flint wrote:

Based on everything that I have read, the object of having a
series of license classes was so that people could take the journey in
smaller, more manageable steps. It does not seem like it was intended
that
people would only go part way and say "good enough".


[snip]


I'm all for multiple license classes, incentives, increasing
privileges, etc.

But I think the problem K0HB is pointing out has to do with how those
incentives are generated.

It's one thing to generate incentive by offering more privileges than
you have now.

It's a very different thing to generate incentive by taking away some
privileges, then requiring an upgrade to get them back.

Right now all Generals and Advanceds (something like 200,000 amateurs)
can use 3600-3750 for CW/data. After the new rules, they will not be
able to use those freqs at all.

Yes, they gain 3800-3850, but that's a gain of 50 kHz phone/image for a
loss of 150.kHz CW/data.

Or look at it percentagewise. Right now, Generals have access to
3525-3750 and 3850-4000. That's 375 kHz total - 75% of the total band.
They have access to 90% of the non-phone bandspace and 60% of the
'phone bandspace.

After the change, Generals will have access to 3525-3600 and 3800-4000.
That's 275 kHz total - 55% of the total band. They will have access to
75% of the non-phone bandspace and 50% of the 'phone bandspace.

Back in the 1960s, the thing that ticked off some hams was not that the
idea of upgrading. It was the idea that the "incentive" to upgrade came
from having existing privileges taken away, rather than new ones added.


History repeats.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I certainly agree that no one should lose privileges. Let's hope that was a
mistake and not intentional. And if it was a mistake that they fix it soon.
I've seen some info on the ARRL site where they are seeking clarification of
the R & O.


Dee, N8UZE

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
'phone bandspace.

massive snip

Back in the 1960s, the thing that ticked off some hams was not that the
idea of upgrading. It was the idea that the "incentive" to upgrade came
from having existing privileges taken away, rather than new ones added.


History repeats.

Dead on and woe be those who don't understand the principle. Close to
40 years on Mother FCC has apparently spanked us again, some of us
anyway, "because upgrading is in the best long-term interest of the
service". Or some such. God forbid they have the gonads to put it in
those terms in writing. I keep wondering which organization would win a
spin doctoring championship, the FCC or the ARRL.

I had a General ticket for 13-14 years when I lost ~ 70% of my
customary DX-chasing spectrum haunts. It was not pretty. Having to take
the 20wpm code test which back then meant getting 100 characters right
on paper in front of a steely-eyed FCC Examiner and even worse having
to trudge uphill both ways in a blizzard to the FCC office just to take
the test . . sob!

Bleh.

Thousands of us accepeted Mother's stick-and-carrot challenge back then
and it worked for us. If today's Generals really care about regaining
the frequecies they're about to lose their way out was clearly
demonstrated decades ago. My bet is that, for instance, very few
Generals will get off their butts and upgrade just to get back their
80M CW/Data space, they'll jump all over their new 50Khz phone space on
75 and never look back. Ask one which he/she would rather have, the
CW/Data freqs or the new phone privs . . talk about non-incentives . .

There is of course an outside chance that some intern screwed up the
R&O . . they've been there and done that before . .

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

"Dee Flint" wrote


Based on everything that I have read, the object of having a series of license
classes was so that people could take the journey in smaller, more manageable
steps.

That's all well and good --- and if each "manageable step" has a corresponding
increase in privilege, we could call that "Incentive Licensing".

But what we have here (and had in the 1960's) is "Dis-incentive Licensing" ---
that's when you climb to a certain step (let's say "General") to enjoy a level
of privs. Then along comes an FCC R&O which knocks away some of those privs and
requires you to take another test in order to regain what you lost.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dee Flint" wrote


Based on everything that I have read, the object of having a series of
license classes was so that people could take the journey in smaller,
more manageable steps.

That's all well and good --- and if each "manageable step" has a
corresponding increase in privilege, we could call that "Incentive
Licensing".

But what we have here (and had in the 1960's) is "Dis-incentive
Licensing" --- that's when you climb to a certain step (let's say
"General") to enjoy a level of privs. Then along comes an FCC R&O which
knocks away some of those privs and requires you to take another test in
order to regain what you lost.

73, de Hans, K0HB


As I remarked to N2EY, let's hope that was a mistake and that they fix it.
I agree they shouldn't lose privileges.

Dee, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote


As I remarked to N2EY, let's hope that was a mistake and that they fix it. I
agree they shouldn't lose privileges.


There's nothing in the 46-page R&O to make it look accidental or inadvertent.

73, de Hans, K0HB