On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 21:48:10 -0500, wrote:
: On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:47:02 +0000 (UTC), Stagger Lee
: wrote:
:
: On 6 Nov 2006 16:31:39 -0800, N9OGL wrote:
: :
: : Steve, I suggest you read Part 15, Part 15 has nothing to do with power
: : (in Wattage) it has to do with the field strength (maininly the
: : electrical field of the electromaganetic wave) you can put out 100
: : watts and still have the field strength as prescribed under part 15 (on
: : 13.556 MHz it 15,848 microvolts per meter at a distance of 30 meters
: : (90 Feet) CB radio's which run 4 - 5 watts is 10,000 microvolts per
: : meter at 30 meters.....but you wouldn't know anything about that now
:
: Odd. If you take the formula for an isotropic radiator emitting P
: watts and solve it for the electric field, e, you come up with
: e = sqr(30*P)/r at a distance of "r" meters (see my earlier posts).
:
: what is odd is that you keep leaving the apporoate contants that
: adjust for the presence of AIR (amoug other thing

Air and vacuum have nearly identical permittivity and permeability -
the properties which control the impedance of air and of free space
and which in turn relate electric field strength to the spatial power
density. It sounds to me as though you are simply blowing smoke and
have no real understanding of what you just attempted to write.

Todd is operating illegally. No amount of bloviating can make that
fact go away. Deal with it.

On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:08:19 -0500, wrote:
: On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 03:28:13 +0000 (UTC), Stagger Lee
: wrote:
:
: On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 21:48:10 -0500, wrote:
: : On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:47:02 +0000 (UTC), Stagger Lee
: : wrote:
: :
: : On 6 Nov 2006 16:31:39 -0800, N9OGL wrote:
: : :
: : : Steve, I suggest you read Part 15, Part 15 has nothing to do with power
: : : (in Wattage) it has to do with the field strength (maininly the
: : : electrical field of the electromaganetic wave) you can put out 100
: : : watts and still have the field strength as prescribed under part 15 (on
: : : 13.556 MHz it 15,848 microvolts per meter at a distance of 30 meters
: : : (90 Feet) CB radio's which run 4 - 5 watts is 10,000 microvolts per
: : : meter at 30 meters.....but you wouldn't know anything about that now
: :
: : Odd. If you take the formula for an isotropic radiator emitting P
: : watts and solve it for the electric field, e, you come up with
: : e = sqr(30*P)/r at a distance of "r" meters (see my earlier posts).
: :
: : what is odd is that you keep leaving the apporoate contants that
: : adjust for the presence of AIR (amoug other thing
:
: Air and vacuum have nearly identical permittivity and permeability -
: the properties which control the impedance of air and of free space
: and which in turn relate electric field strength to the spatial power
: density. It sounds to me as though you are simply blowing smoke and
: have no real understanding of what you just attempted to write.
:
: you are the one without any idea idea of what you are writting
:
: you simply have NO understanding of Gausses law which deteremines
: electircal feild strength

Wrong. In the case of an electromagnetic field, Gauss' law is only
one of four equations (Maxwell's equations) that are needed to
determine the electric field strength. Since a changing magnetic
field can produce an electric field too (Faraday's law), Gauss' law is
not enough. The only time it is sufficient is in the electrostatic
case.

Fortunately, the case under discussion doesn't require the solution of
a set of partial differential equations (Maxwell's equations), because
the solution has been incorporated into the idea of the impedance of
free space. That includes the permittivity of the medium (as used by
Gauss' law) plus the permeability of the medium, and it allows one to
express the power density in space with an Ohm's law type of equation
that involves only the electric field and the impedance.

That simple equation says that 5 watts of radiated power will produce
an electric field strength which is 40 times larger than that claimed
by N9OGL. That's why I asked him if he'd been consulting with Woger
again.

Perhaps he's been consulting with you instead. You just got an "F"
in electromagnetics.


====================
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and then there was light.

Stagger Lee wrote:
On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 21:48:10 -0500, wrote:
: On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:47:02 +0000 (UTC), Stagger Lee
: wrote:
:
: On 6 Nov 2006 16:31:39 -0800, N9OGL wrote:
: :
: : Steve, I suggest you read Part 15, Part 15 has nothing to do with power
: : (in Wattage) it has to do with the field strength (maininly the
: : electrical field of the electromaganetic wave) you can put out 100
: : watts and still have the field strength as prescribed under part 15 (on
: : 13.556 MHz it 15,848 microvolts per meter at a distance of 30 meters
: : (90 Feet) CB radio's which run 4 - 5 watts is 10,000 microvolts per
: : meter at 30 meters.....but you wouldn't know anything about that now
:
: Odd. If you take the formula for an isotropic radiator emitting P
: watts and solve it for the electric field, e, you come up with
: e = sqr(30*P)/r at a distance of "r" meters (see my earlier posts).
:
: what is odd is that you keep leaving the apporoate contants that
: adjust for the presence of AIR (amoug other thing

Air and vacuum have nearly identical permittivity and permeability -
the properties which control the impedance of air and of free space
and which in turn relate electric field strength to the spatial power
density. It sounds to me as though you are simply blowing smoke and
have no real understanding of what you just attempted to write.

Todd is operating illegally. No amount of bloviating can make that
fact go away. Deal with it.



If you think that, then complain, if not shut the hell up, bottom line
is when the FCC Does (if they every will) come and check it and it's
within the rules your going to be the one with eggs on his face.
Everyone on here will know it.

Todd N9OGL
OMEGA ONE RADIO

Not Cocksucker Lloyd wrote:
Saggytits Lee plagiarized from another website and added a few of his
own comments to make it look like he wrote the whole thing again:

Wrong. In the case of an electromagnetic field, plagiarism flushed

Stanley, you don't know anything about it, you can't even find the
correct ARES website for Marshall County, WV.

Stanley? You thought I was Stagger Lee. You were sure that Lloyd was
Stagger Lee. You were certain that someone named Chason was Stagger
Lee. Your bewilderment persists.

P.S., -------, what's the make and color of Roger's car since you say
there is a webcam pointed at his garage. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nobody cares about the make and color of Roger Wiseman's car save for
you, his imaginary friend.

Dave K8MN

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:55:25 GMT, Dave Heil wrote:
: Not Cocksucker Lloyd wrote:
: Saggytits Lee plagiarized from another website and added a few of his
: own comments to make it look like he wrote the whole thing again:
:
: Wrong. In the case of an electromagnetic field, plagiarism flushed
:
: Stanley, you don't know anything about it, you can't even find the
: correct ARES website for Marshall County, WV.
:
: Stanley? You thought I was Stagger Lee. You were sure that Lloyd was
: Stagger Lee. You were certain that someone named Chason was Stagger
: Lee. Your bewilderment persists.
:
: P.S., -------, what's the make and color of Roger's car since you say
: there is a webcam pointed at his garage. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
:
: Nobody cares about the make and color of Roger Wiseman's car save for
: you, his imaginary friend.

I wondered why I didn't see that post until I went back an looked it
up elsewhere. It seems that the post is 661 lines long and that my
filters blocked it (they accept no post longer than 500 lines).

I must say that I'm flattered that Woger keeps a file on me which goes
back years. It shows just how much he hangs on my every word. He
probably rereads my old posts whenever he needs some inspiration to
help him get through the next day. Say, for example, that he is about
to give a talk on r.m.s. voltage or on negative SWR. Our past
discussions on those two topics could be invaluable to him.

But I may be temporarily moving on, Woger. I just discovered that
Mark Morgan wants to learn about electromagnetic field propagation, so
I'm going to help him out. When he's ready to tackle advanced topics
such as negative SWR or the calculation of r.m.s. voltage, you can
take over.

====================
In message . com,
N9OGL bragged about his radio station with the claim, "the stations
far away say there is no signal but the audio is really good."

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:50:55 -0500, wrote:
: One Guass governs eltrostatic and electro dynamic cases as well One
: normaly learns the the electrostatic case case first
:
: FOOLs like you don't bother to learn more
:
: but you have failed to account for the fact in any RF mattter power
: dvideds beteween the elictric and Magnetic and then the 2 regenerate
: each other (with some path loss
:
: in short you can't profrom a calution worth doing without more than
: data than you have and more equation

The result of solving Maxwell's equations for the radiated field is
that the electric field strength in volts / meter can be used to
compute the power density in watts per square meter by means of the
simple equation

P = e^2 / (120*Pi)

120*Pi is the impedance of free space, as obtained from Maxwell's
equations.

Now that happens to be a pretty complete equation, and it can indeed
be used as it stands to figure out which power density, P, corresponds
to a particular r.m.s. electric field, e. You can also solve the
equation for "e" if you want to calculate the electric field when you
already know the power density. It is a steady-state solution, and it
excludes non-radiating fields (the so-called near field), but it is
good enough for most initial calculations.

So, no, one doesn't need additional equations, and one doesn't need
to worry about power division between the electric and magnetic
fields. That's already been included in the formula given above.

: none of which matter either

They only don't matter because you have the details wrong. If we
tried to get at the radiated field strength your way, we'd never get
an answer at all.

: what matters is the measurable filed strangth

If you can't estimate the field strength beforehand, then you CAN'T
possibly come up with a good initial station design. You'd have to
put something up and hope it works out. I suspect that's exactly what
Todd has done, and it is a very dangerous way to operate.

: to determine if Todd is legal or not you MUST prefrom the test and
: till that is done Innocent till found guility is ther Law

If the calculations suggest that Todd is very probably exceeding the
legal electric field strenth (and they do), it is something that no
sane station operator should ignore. Calculations are inexpensive: A
certified field strength meter is not, and a NAL is even costlier.

Saggytits Lee outs himself as Dave Heil when he whined:
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:55:25 GMT, Dave Heil wrote:
: Not Cocksucker Lloyd wrote:
: Saggytits Lee plagiarized from another website and added a few of his
: own comments to make it look like he wrote the whole thing again:
:
: Wrong. In the case of an electromagnetic field, plagiarism flushed
:
: Stanley, you don't know anything about it, you can't even find the
: correct ARES website for Marshall County, WV.
: St flush

Hey Davey, how's that Finnish ex whore's genital herpes she got from
the dog?


: P.S., -------, what's the make and color of Roger's car since you say
: there is a webcam pointed at his garage. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
:
: Nobody cares about the make and color of Roger Wiseman's car save for
: you, his imaginary friend.

Thanks for outing yourself as Saggytits, Fatass Heil.

Saggytits Lee plagiarized and added a few of his own comments to make
it look like he wrote the whole thing again:
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:50:55 -0500, wrote:
: One Guass governs eltrostatic and electro dynamic cases as well One
: normaly learns the the electrostatic case case first
:
: FOOLs like you don't bother to learn more
:
: but you have failed to account for the fact in any RF mattter power
: dvideds beteween the elictric and Magnetic and then the 2 regenerate
: each other (with some path loss
:
: in short you can't profrom a calution worth doing without more than
: data than you have and more equation

The result of solving

Saggytits plagiarizes some more. Poor Saggytits.

Stagger Lee wrote:

nothing of consequence

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:55:25 GMT, Dave Heil wrote:
: Nobody cares about the make and color of Roger Wiseman's car save for
: you, his imaginary friend.

How telling, a liar named Heil defending his sockpuppet.

Tell us again how the City of Glen Dale has a "lock up," liar?

Pious Davey Heil, K8MN blatantly lies even when a call to (304)
845-5511 can verify Glen Dale has no jail facility in
. net:
"Why were you in the lockup in Glen Dale?"

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:32:30 -0500, wrote:
[nothing useful]

I see that you need a great deal of expert instruction. Fortunately,
I happen to have some time available this month, so I will attempt to
enlighten you on the subject of Maxwell's equations and electromagnetic
radiation.

In my absence, please feel free to consult either Todd Daugherty or
Roger Wiseman.

First assignment: Define a field as used in physics, and then try to
describe both static magnetic and static electric fields. Feel free
to use Wikipedia if you get stuck. Later on, we'll move to dynamic
fields, because they form the basis of electromagnetic radiation.

P.S. Maxwell's equations have appeared in my sig several times (see
the current sig), so you were quite wrong when you said that I
couldn't write them down properly. What happened instead is that you
simply don't know enough to recognize Maxwell's equations when they
are right in front of your face. If you can't recognize Maxwell's
equations, how in the world will you ever pass the new, code-free
Extra class exam? Think about it.

====================
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and then there was light.