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-   -   Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ... (https://www.radiobanter.com/policy/116220-message-rejected-automaton-rram-thread.html)

John Smith I March 7th 07 02:04 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. My REJECTED response to that
message. And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.

/////// Original Message Follows /////////
On Mar 4, 12:49 pm, "Dee Flint" wrote:

Already the flurry of applicants has dropped and attendance
is close to that of pre-Feb 23 levels.


This is not surprising. Amateur radio has already had a "code-free"
license for 15 years. The claims that there was this huge untapped
reservoir of new licensees just waiting for a "code-free HF" license
was never supported by any facts -- just supposition and anecdotal
claims of "deaf PhD EE friends". Why anyone would even think there
would be this huge wave of new applicants is beyond me.


On Mar 4, 7:24 pm, Mike Coslo wrote:

That isn't too surprising. The first several months are

likely to
be upgrades from people who paid attention to the change in testing.


Frankly, I suspect that 99.9% of the activity generated from this
latest licensing change will be nothing but upgrades.

As I posted on another thread, I predict at the end of the year we
will see a 0 to -1% "growth" in ham radio resulting from these
changes.


I suspect the next batch will be Hams that found out about the
change right around now. This group will be upgrading about 6 - 12

months
from the change.


Given the current state of the theory examinations, I suspect you'll
see an upgrade curve which is steep at first, tapers off, and then
falls rapidly as well, as the pool of people who are interested in
upgrading is exhausted.

Frankly, not everyone is interested in upgrading. My family has
Advanced, General, and Tech-class licensees. None of them have any
intention of upgrading, the last I knew.


Absolutely new people won't be testing until around a year from
now.


I'm not quite sure how you formulate this claim. It certainly doesn't
take a year to study to pass an amateur radio examination. People
finding out about the licensing changes now could have a license in-
hand virtually immediately. Certainly within 60 to 90 days.

We've already had a codeless license for 15 years. All we have now are
codeless HF licenses as well. Is there going to be this huge influx of
people who never got licensed as Techs because they couldn't operate
HF? I seriously doubt it.

I'm sure there will be some, but the number will be statistically
insignificant.


73
kh6hz
/////// Original Message Ends /////////

////// MY RESPONSE TO THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE ///////
KH6HZ wrote:
On Mar 4, 12:49 pm, "Dee Flint" wrote:

Already the flurry of applicants has dropped and attendance
is close to that of pre-Feb 23 levels.


This is not surprising. Amateur radio has already had a "code-free"
license for 15 years. The claims that there was this huge untapped
reservoir of new licensees just waiting for a "code-free HF" license
was never supported by any facts -- just supposition and anecdotal
claims of "deaf PhD EE friends". Why anyone would even think there
would be this huge wave of new applicants is beyond me.
...


Oh my goodness, then that is the problem, isn't it. You are just
ignorant to the fact that HF freqs have MUCH different characteristics
than VHF, UHF and the mirowave freqs and beyond--and right up till light
freqs ...

A basic book on amateur radio will explain to you why HF would be much
more desirable to some ... that should clear up your little problem of
ignorance and bring you up to speed with the rest of us.

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com
///// MY RESPONSE TO THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE ENDS ////////

///// WHAT THE AUTOMATON STATED WAS REASON FOR REJECTION //////
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I wish the parent message in this thread had not been approved. - K3FU



Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.

Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:

http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html

Please direct any queries to .

Thank you,

- Moderation Team.

============================================ Full text of your message
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KH6HZ wrote:
On Mar 4, 12:49 pm, "Dee Flint" wrote:

Already the flurry of applicants has dropped and attendance
is close to that of pre-Feb 23 levels.

This is not surprising. Amateur radio has already had a "code-free"
license for 15 years. The claims that there was this huge untapped
reservoir of new licensees just waiting for a "code-free HF" license
was never supported by any facts -- just supposition and anecdotal
claims of "deaf PhD EE friends". Why anyone would even think there
would be this huge wave of new applicants is beyond me.
...


Oh my goodness, then that is the problem, isn't it. You are just
ignorant to the fact that HF freqs have MUCH different characteristics
than VHF, UHF and the mirowave freqs and beyond--and right up till

light
freqs ...

A basic book on amateur radio will explain to you why HF would be much
more desirable to some ... that should clear up your little problem of
ignorance and bring you up to speed with the rest of us.

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (NetBSD)

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//// AUTOMATON STATEMENT ENDS //////////////////////

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

Dloyd Lavies March 7th 07 02:38 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 6, 9:04�pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. *My REJECTED response to that
message. *And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.

That's why I don't really bother to post anything to the new moderated
group. Although it is a nice change of pace to read threads. Just by
the nature of my posting name prevents any posts from getting through
the moderators, plus its all subjective, what may get through today,
may not pass tomorrow, who has time to decipher what is acceptable
today and what will pass muster tomorrow, with each different
moderator.

In your case, even the reasoning provided by Paul shows that all the
moderators are not on the same page. I would rather post on e-ham or
qrz, even though they moderate, it appears that it is at least done at
some level of consistent moderation. :) I suppose it is probably
easier on those sites because they have the forums broken down by
subject matter with individual moderators for each subject, instead of
the group moderation in place here. I guess that over time they will
work out the kinks to be more consistent.

Dloyd


Bignose Bernie the Bagelman March 7th 07 11:42 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
Moderated newsgroups suck errect penis in a shemale' asscrack.
Always will too.


John Smith I March 8th 07 12:54 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
wrote:

...
come now we knew real debate was going to be limited at best
...


Just like to take a look at things in the daylight, ya can see better in
that light, yanno?

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

Dloyd Lavies March 8th 07 01:07 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 7, 7:49�pm, wrote:
On 6 Mar 2007 18:38:43 -0800, "Dloyd Lavies"
wrote:

On Mar 6, 9:04?pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:


Following is a message taken from RRAM.

y REJECTED response to that
message.


nd, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.

That's why I don't really bother to post anything to the new moderated
group


*good for you since you never post anything ontopichttp://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com


See Mark, I post something on topic in response to JP's thread and you
have to come on this thread and start your attack, and then you whine
when someone jumps on you. Please don't try to make this thread all
about you. We see enough of that already.

Dloyd


an_old_friend March 8th 07 04:22 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 7, 8:07 pm, "Dloyd Lavies" wrote:
On Mar 7, 7:49?pm, wrote:





On 6 Mar 2007 18:38:43 -0800, "Dloyd Lavies"
wrote:


On Mar 6, 9:04?pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:


Following is a message taken from RRAM.
y REJECTED response to that
message.


nd, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.


That's why I don't really bother to post anything to the new moderated
group


?good for you since you never post anything ontopichttp://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/


--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com


See Mark, I post something on topic in response to JP's thread and you
have to come on this thread and start your attack,........


where is you post a radio I don't see it

..... and then you whine
when someone jumps on you.


you are the one whining

Please don't try to make this thread all
about you.


you are the one that is contanting trying to make everything about r
rather one of them

Dloyd- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




KC4UAI March 8th 07 04:30 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. My REJECTED response to that
message. And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.


Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:


http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html


Please direct any queries to .
snip




John,

So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.

-= bob =-


[email protected] March 8th 07 07:09 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 8, 8:30�am, "KC4UAI" wrote:
On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:





To Whom It May Concern:


Following is a message taken from RRAM. *My REJECTED response to that
message. *And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.


Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:


* * * *http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html


Please direct any queries to .
snip


John,

So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.


Not if one is a moderator. :-(

Try understanding that not everyone is a daily participant
in any newsgroup. They may be absent for several days.
Those non-daily participants MAY have something cogent
and meaningful about a discussion topic. A solution to the
"closed thread" could be a simple posting that a particular
thread has been closed by "the moderators."

Such a message does NOT have to be the multi-screen
multi-quote and link-full messages usually sent. Let's not
waste any more time for anyone with all this very-NON-
instant messaging.

I've been a participant in computer-modem communications
for 23 years on BBSs, private networks, and the Internet
carried "usenet" newsgroups. Yes, I've also been a moderator
on some large local BBSs and know what it is like. You WILL
get angry denunciations from the dissatisfied. TS. The skin
MUST grow tough and thick to do the job.

Now there is a "board" of moderators...more likely one has
their "turn in the barrel" for a day, checking up on content.
If the "board" wanted to do a good job, go out on PATROL;
i.e., roam the territory and, if something irritates them, try
sending warning messages privately, then publicly. It is
better than simply "closing the doors" and not saying
anything to anyone in public.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.


The "board" ought to get its act together as a unit...work
on this "moderation" as a cohesive unit, not a disparate
collection of individuals relying on some (unknown)
program "robocop" checking out the post content of
those NOT on the "white list," sending out private e-mail
notices, and generally wasting time with all this "appeals"
busy work which can take days.

What we've got is a fine medium for written comms to
spread at the speed of light but a bunch of overseers
busy with overkill on content so that days and days
pass along with extreme interruption of a thread subject.

Now, if the "moderators" can't tell the difference between
middle-school machismo sex talk along with personal
insult and invective compared with heated discussion on
polarized subject threads...just give up. I don't think all
the "organized officialdom pontification" is going to do
its job effectively. Unless "effective" is a re-definition of
one-sided, nice-nice group think that is far from
DISCUSSION as it can get. George Orwell had a point
with both novels "Animal Farm" and "1984."

On "moderation" I've been there, got lots of T-shirts,
wore out a few. The "moderated newsgroup" idea is
nice only in theory but, in practice, it is just trying to
re-invent a wheel...one that has lots of flat sections
on it. That's been done before and hasn't worked well.
The "board" may be an innovation but all those "appeals"
are just time-wasting busy work. Think about it.

73, AF6AY


an old friend March 8th 07 07:16 PM

just another stalking thread
 
On Mar 8, 2:09�pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:30?am, "KC4UAI" wrote:





On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:


To Whom It May Concern:


Following is a message taken from RRAM. ?My REJECTED response to that
message. ?And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.


Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:


? ? ? ?http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html


Please direct any queries to .
snip


John,


So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.


* *Not if one is a moderator. *:-(

* *Try understanding that not everyone is a daily participant
* *in any newsgroup. *They may be absent for several days.
* *Those non-daily participants MAY have something cogent
* *and meaningful about a discussion topic. *A solution to the
* *"closed thread" could be a simple posting that a particular
* *thread has been closed by "the moderators."

* *Such a message does NOT have to be the multi-screen
* *multi-quote and link-full messages usually sent. *Let's not
* *waste any more time for anyone with all this very-NON-
* *instant messaging.

* *I've been a participant in computer-modem communications
* *for 23 years on BBSs, private networks, and the Internet
* *carried "usenet" newsgroups. *Yes, I've also been a moderator
* *on some large local BBSs and know what it is like. *You WILL
* *get angry denunciations from the dissatisfied. *TS. *The skin
* *MUST grow tough and thick to do the job.

* *Now there is a "board" of moderators...more likely one has
* *their "turn in the barrel" for a day, checking up on content.
* *If the "board" wanted to do a good job, go out on PATROL;
* *i.e., roam the territory and, if something irritates them, try
* *sending warning messages privately, then publicly. *It is
* *better than simply "closing the doors" and not saying
* *anything to anyone in public.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.


* *The "board" ought to get its act together as a unit...work
* *on this "moderation" as a cohesive unit, not a disparate
* *collection of individuals relying on some (unknown)
* *program "robocop" checking out the post content of
* *those NOT on the "white list," sending out private e-mail
* *notices, and generally wasting time with all this "appeals"
* *busy work which can take days.

* *What we've got is a fine medium for written comms to
* *spread at the speed of light but a bunch of overseers
* *busy with overkill on content so that days and days
* *pass along with extreme interruption of a thread subject.

* *Now, if the "moderators" can't tell the difference between
* *middle-school machismo sex talk along with personal
* *insult and invective compared with heated discussion on
* *polarized subject threads...just give up. *I don't think all
* *the "organized officialdom pontification" is going to do
* *its job effectively. *Unless "effective" is a re-definition of
* *one-sided, nice-nice group think that is far from
* *DISCUSSION as it can get. *George Orwell had a point
* *with both novels "Animal Farm" and "1984."

* *On "moderation" I've been there, got lots of T-shirts,
* *wore out a few. *The "moderated newsgroup" idea is
* *nice only in theory but, in practice, it is just trying to
* *re-invent a wheel...one that has lots of flat sections
* *on it. *That's been done before and hasn't worked well.
* *The "board" may be an innovation but all those "appeals"
* *are just time-wasting busy work. *Think about it.

* *73, AF6AY- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


just another stalking thread
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com






KC4UAI March 8th 07 08:28 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 8, 10:32 am, wrote:
On 8 Mar 2007 08:30:58 -0800, "KC4UAI" wrote:

On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:


Following is a message taken from RRAM. My REJECTED response to that
message. And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.


Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:


http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html


Please direct any queries to .
snip


John,


So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.


interesting the that he was not old this


You mean he was not told this in "advance" because the e-mail he
quoted clearly says that the thread was closed and that was why his
post was automatically rejected. Which is part of what I didn't snip
out of the original message.


If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.


and frankly this alowing one insult in then closing the thread is
pretty lame


I don't understand what "insult" you are talking about. Closing a
thread is a valid moderation decision when the thread starts drifting
off the original poster's topic. This does cause the rejection of
otherwise acceptable posts automatically, which is what seems to be
the case here but that does not mean it's improper.

Again, review by the board is the method posters can use to effect
changes in the moderation practice and force better coordination in
the policy used by all the moderators. Individually we are not above
making mistakes or having differences of opinion about what is
acceptable but we can and do discuss various decisions that are close
to the line. We routinely discuss these issues as a group and we
routinely are asking each other about posts that are considered
questionable.

So.. If you think something was rejected for a bad reason.. Try to
edit your submission and make it acceptable, use the appeals process
or simply move on and forget it.

-= bob =-


KH6HZ March 8th 07 08:47 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
"KC4UAI" wrote:

You mean he was not told this in "advance" because the e-mail he
quoted clearly says that the thread was closed and that was why his
post was automatically rejected. Which is part of what I didn't snip
out of the original message.


To be fair to John, though, it would appear the thread was only alive for 2
days. The first post on 3/4 at 12:49, the last post 3/6 1:07pm.

Is 49 hours a legitimate amount of time to allow a thread to be alive in any
newsgroup, given USENET message propagation characteristics?

I would probably side with John on this one, personally. Unless you're
talking about a thread which has a certain timeliness (i.e. announcing a
special event this weekend and it is currently Thursday) it would seem a
thread should be open for discussion longer than 49 hours.

73
kh6hz





KC4UAI March 8th 07 09:01 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 8, 1:09 pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:30?am, "KC4UAI" wrote:





On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:


To Whom It May Concern:


Following is a message taken from RRAM. ?My REJECTED response to that
message. ?And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.


Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:


? ? ? ?http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html


Please direct any queries to .
snip


John,


So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.


Not if one is a moderator. :-(


I suppose you can claim bias because I'm a moderator... Even if it's
not true, how do you go about disproving that charge? :)

Try understanding that not everyone is a daily participant
in any newsgroup. They may be absent for several days.
Those non-daily participants MAY have something cogent
and meaningful about a discussion topic. A solution to the
"closed thread" could be a simple posting that a particular
thread has been closed by "the moderators."

I'll take that as a valid suggestion, that we post a message to the
thread that says it is closed to further posting. I'll bring that up
to the group and see what they say.

I've been a participant in computer-modem communications
for 23 years on BBSs, private networks, and the Internet
carried "usenet" newsgroups. Yes, I've also been a moderator
on some large local BBSs and know what it is like. You WILL
get angry denunciations from the dissatisfied. TS. The skin
MUST grow tough and thick to do the job.


Don't think my feathers are ruffled here. I too have been involved in
BBS activities for over two decades and had multiple fido-net nodes
over the years. I do care that *constructive* critics are listened
to, but I'm not offended when somebody disagrees with me.

Now there is a "board" of moderators...more likely one has
their "turn in the barrel" for a day, checking up on content.
If the "board" wanted to do a good job, go out on PATROL;
i.e., roam the territory and, if something irritates them, try
sending warning messages privately, then publicly. It is
better than simply "closing the doors" and not saying
anything to anyone in public.


Well, this is not how our policy works from your point of view. There
is no way you could tell if the board is actively looking at the
individual moderation decisions or not. I can assure you that the
moderation software keeps logs, and the logs are being reviewed by the
board on a regular basis. We have had regular discussions about
decisions that where considered "border line" though just this avenue.

However, if you feel a decision was improper, we have provided you a
means of calling a specific event to their attention. That is the
point of the appeals process.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.


The "board" ought to get its act together as a unit...work
on this "moderation" as a cohesive unit, not a disparate
collection of individuals relying on some (unknown)
program "robocop" checking out the post content of
those NOT on the "white list," sending out private e-mail
notices, and generally wasting time with all this "appeals"
busy work which can take days.


So you would propose that we handle every message on the group one at
a time though a single filter? I'm sorry, but that is not very
workable in the real world. We are trying to maintain a reasonable
discussion with a minimum of delay and what you propose might cause
very large delays in getting posts approved. We decided that it was
more important to be timely and depend upon a group of moderators
making individual decisions. What you propose is a group of
moderators debating every choice every time. Automation has it's
limits and problems, I won't argue that point, but it's much better
than doing this all by hand and having to deal with the delays
involved with doing it that way.

Snip the Orwell referance..

On "moderation" I've been there, got lots of T-shirts,
wore out a few. The "moderated newsgroup" idea is
nice only in theory but, in practice, it is just trying to
re-invent a wheel...one that has lots of flat sections
on it. That's been done before and hasn't worked well.
The "board" may be an innovation but all those "appeals"
are just time-wasting busy work. Think about it.


Well I have only one T-Shirt and one Hat for my past efforts.... And
we have thought about this quite a lot as a group. I'm satisfied that
we have a reasonable compromise on how we are going about this. Is it
perfect? Perhaps not, but what human endeavor is? We are open to
suggestions on how to improve, and over time we surely will if we keep
trying.

-= bob =-


Leo March 8th 07 09:53 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On 8 Mar 2007 11:09:21 -0800, "
wrote:

On Mar 8, 8:30?am, "KC4UAI" wrote:
On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:

snip

73, AF6AY


Hey - nice shiny new callsign you have there!

Congrats to the new Extra!

73, Leo

Bob Brock March 8th 07 10:00 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On 8 Mar 2007 12:28:06 -0800, "KC4UAI" wrote:



or simply move on and forget it.


I predict that there will be a lot of that going on over there for
awhile.

[email protected] March 8th 07 10:14 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 8, 1:01�pm, "KC4UAI" wrote:
On Mar 8, 1:09 pm, "
wrote:

On Mar 8, 8:30?am, "KC4UAI" wrote:


On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:


To Whom It May Concern:


Following is a message taken from RRAM. ?My REJECTED response to that
message. ?And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.


Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:


? ? ? ?http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html


Please direct any queries to .
snip


John,


So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.


* *Not if one is a moderator. *:-(


I suppose you can claim bias because I'm a moderator... Even if it's
not true, how do you go about disproving that charge? *:)


No one can "disprove" an unseen "charge." It is a matter of
OPINION that some do not like a particular system.

* *Try understanding that not everyone is a daily participant
* *in any newsgroup. *They may be absent for several days.
* *Those non-daily participants MAY have something cogent
* *and meaningful about a discussion topic. *A solution to the
* *"closed thread" could be a simple posting that a particular
* *thread has been closed by "the moderators."


I'll take that as a valid suggestion, that we post a message to the
thread that says it is closed to further posting. *I'll bring that up
to the group and see what they say.


It could be a simple posting of just "closed." Takes up the
least space, even with a short message of why it was closed.

* *I've been a participant in computer-modem communications
* *for 23 years on BBSs, private networks, and the Internet
* *carried "usenet" newsgroups. *Yes, I've also been a moderator
* *on some large local BBSs and know what it is like. *You WILL
* *get angry denunciations from the dissatisfied. *TS. *The skin
* *MUST grow tough and thick to do the job.


Don't think my feathers are ruffled here. *I too have been involved in
BBS activities for over two decades and had multiple fido-net nodes
over the years. *I do care that *constructive* critics are listened
to, but I'm not offended when somebody disagrees with me.


No sweat on that here. FIDO was a good training ground
for some inordinately-dissatisfied posters.

* *Now there is a "board" of moderators...more likely one has
* *their "turn in the barrel" for a day, checking up on content.
* *If the "board" wanted to do a good job, go out on PATROL;
* *i.e., roam the territory and, if something irritates them, try
* *sending warning messages privately, then publicly. *It is
* *better than simply "closing the doors" and not saying
* *anything to anyone in public.


Well, this is not how our policy works from your point of view. *There
is no way you could tell if the board is actively looking at the
individual moderation decisions or not. *I can assure you that the
moderation software keeps logs, and the logs are being reviewed by the
board on a regular basis. We have had regular discussions about
decisions that where considered "border line" though just this avenue.


The "invisibility" of the current moderation process is what
bothers many, including myself. I don't care how long a
message is about the moderation process, all that such a
message says is rather boilerplate PR to me. I've seen
enough of that kind of "justification" from many sources
and just hang a tag on it that says "Politics as Usual."

One moderator, one quick action is what I CAN under-
stand.

However, if you feel a decision was improper, we have provided you a
means of calling a specific event to their attention. *That is the
point of the appeals process.


And that can take days to resolve. That newsgroup is
NOT a Court. Reach a decision and do it quickly,
heated tempers will cool down faster and things return
to normal (whatever that is) quickly.

So you would propose that we handle every message on the group one at
a time though a single filter? *I'm sorry, but that is not very
workable in the real world. *We are trying to maintain a reasonable
discussion with a minimum of delay and what you propose might cause
very large delays in getting posts approved.


"I proposed that?" Not quite. As I said, one moderator and
one action. The way I see it is a "moderated" group IS
moderated and, if that means to you each message
reviewed, then so be it. To have SOME on a "non-moderated"
basis in a "white list" of "pre-approved" posters will
obviously invite the accusations of elitism.

*We decided that it was
more important to be timely and depend upon a group of moderators
making individual decisions. *What you propose is a group of
moderators debating every choice every time. Automation has it's
limits and problems, I won't argue that point, but it's much better
than doing this all by hand and having to deal with the delays
involved with doing it that way.


Since practicality of volunteerism MUST be considered, a
group is necessary. But, the spectre of a moderator
getting away from desired goals is ever-present. What is
the check-and-balance for moderators? Any? If all they
lose is some self-defined Status, that isn't much of a
penalty.

Snip the Orwell referance..


As you wish. I found it quite significant...and I was
never a member of SWINE (Students Wildly Indignant
about Nearly Everything) nor a draft-dodging rationalizer
hoping for no draft call in the 60s (I'd already served
my time in northeast Asia). One MUST be ever-watchful
of "authority." Not to actively distrust them, but be WARY.

That, too, is a human trait and gave rise to another little
homily: Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts
absolutely.

Well I have only one T-Shirt and one Hat for my past efforts.... And
we have thought about this quite a lot as a group. *I'm satisfied that
we have a reasonable compromise on how we are going about this. *Is it
perfect? *Perhaps not, but what human endeavor is? *We are open to
suggestions on how to improve, and over time we surely will if we keep
trying.


I'm still waiting for this Perestroika, the "openness" to
happen in the moderation "human endeavor." I don't see
a trace of it yet.

Color me skeptical if you will.

73, AF6AY



Dee Flint March 8th 07 11:14 PM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 

"KH6HZ" wrote in message
...
"KC4UAI" wrote:

You mean he was not told this in "advance" because the e-mail he
quoted clearly says that the thread was closed and that was why his
post was automatically rejected. Which is part of what I didn't snip
out of the original message.


To be fair to John, though, it would appear the thread was only alive for
2 days. The first post on 3/4 at 12:49, the last post 3/6 1:07pm.

Is 49 hours a legitimate amount of time to allow a thread to be alive in
any newsgroup, given USENET message propagation characteristics?

I would probably side with John on this one, personally. Unless you're
talking about a thread which has a certain timeliness (i.e. announcing a
special event this weekend and it is currently Thursday) it would seem a
thread should be open for discussion longer than 49 hours.

73
kh6hz


I was told by one of the moderators that there seems to be some type of
issue that causes this rejection when the thread gets too long or too deeply
nested.

I've suggested that they have it autopost a final message when a thread is
closed so that we know to simply start anew.

Dee, N8UZE



Bob Brock March 9th 07 12:04 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 18:14:58 -0500, "Dee Flint"
wrote:


"KH6HZ" wrote in message
...
"KC4UAI" wrote:

You mean he was not told this in "advance" because the e-mail he
quoted clearly says that the thread was closed and that was why his
post was automatically rejected. Which is part of what I didn't snip
out of the original message.


To be fair to John, though, it would appear the thread was only alive for
2 days. The first post on 3/4 at 12:49, the last post 3/6 1:07pm.

Is 49 hours a legitimate amount of time to allow a thread to be alive in
any newsgroup, given USENET message propagation characteristics?

I would probably side with John on this one, personally. Unless you're
talking about a thread which has a certain timeliness (i.e. announcing a
special event this weekend and it is currently Thursday) it would seem a
thread should be open for discussion longer than 49 hours.

73
kh6hz


I was told by one of the moderators that there seems to be some type of
issue that causes this rejection when the thread gets too long or too deeply
nested.

I've suggested that they have it autopost a final message when a thread is
closed so that we know to simply start anew.


ROTFLMAO

One can readily tell that band space is a problem in the ng with all
the posting going on over there.

John Smith I March 9th 07 01:33 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
KC4UAI wrote:

...
John,

So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.

-= bob =-


You don't huh? Well, just goes to show ya, some are a bit sharper than
the avg razor ...

It is moderated, let 'em KILL THE WHOLE THREAD THEN!!!

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

[email protected] March 9th 07 02:11 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
On Mar 8, 1:53�pm, Leo wrote:
On 8 Mar 2007 11:09:21 -0800, "

wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:30?am, "KC4UAI" wrote:
On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:

snip


* 73, AF6AY


Hey - nice shiny new callsign you have there! *

Congrats to the new Extra!


Thank you, Leo. "Shiny"? Non. I'm resisting the impulse
to order a police shield with wallet to display that callsign
when off-line. :-) [like Never will I do that...]

All I need now is an antenna or two, transmitter(s) or
transceiver(s) and a whole lotta other stuff. I feel like
"The Six Million Dollar Ham"..."we have the technology,
we can build him a station, bigger and better than
before..." [hmmm...might be a TV series idea there!]

73, AF6AY


John Smith I March 9th 07 03:31 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:33:50 -0800, John Smith I
wrote:

KC4UAI wrote:

...
John,

So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.

-= bob =-

You don't huh? Well, just goes to show ya, some are a bit sharper than
the avg razor ...


thestaus quo almost never see anything wrong with it

but we knew that
It is moderated, let 'em KILL THE WHOLE THREAD THEN!!!


as i understand they can't in practical terms anymore cancel bot don't
work

and they already ****ed up and apporved the thread
JS

http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/


Let 'em hang themselves, they are doing a good enough job, no need to
hurry it :)

JS

John Smith I March 9th 07 03:41 AM

just another stalking thread
 
wrote:
On 8 Mar 2007 11:16:13 -0800, "an old friend"
wrote:

On Mar 8, 2:09?pm, "
wrote:


73, AF6AY- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just another stalking thread

back to forging I see
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/


I think RRAM is STALKING ME!!! Whattaya' think? grin

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

John Smith I March 9th 07 03:45 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
KC4UAI wrote:

...


OMG! They made this guy a moderator? Whatever where they thinking?

Says it all, doesn't it?

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

John Smith I March 9th 07 03:49 AM

Message rejected by the automaton in RRAM thread ...
 
wrote:

...


Mark:

You OK the play, the play happens, you don't--it don't ...

Now guy, can I make that any plainer? What, you take up makin' up
excuses for nimwits now?

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com


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