[John Smith I]

To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. My REJECTED response to that
message. And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.

/////// Original Message Follows /////////
On Mar 4, 12:49 pm, "Dee Flint" wrote:

Already the flurry of applicants has dropped and attendance
is close to that of pre-Feb 23 levels.

This is not surprising. Amateur radio has already had a "code-free"
license for 15 years. The claims that there was this huge untapped
reservoir of new licensees just waiting for a "code-free HF" license
was never supported by any facts -- just supposition and anecdotal
claims of "deaf PhD EE friends". Why anyone would even think there
would be this huge wave of new applicants is beyond me.


On Mar 4, 7:24 pm, Mike Coslo wrote:

That isn't too surprising. The first several months are
likely to
be upgrades from people who paid attention to the change in testing.

Frankly, I suspect that 99.9% of the activity generated from this
latest licensing change will be nothing but upgrades.

As I posted on another thread, I predict at the end of the year we
will see a 0 to -1% "growth" in ham radio resulting from these
changes.


I suspect the next batch will be Hams that found out about the
change right around now. This group will be upgrading about 6 - 12
months
from the change.

Given the current state of the theory examinations, I suspect you'll
see an upgrade curve which is steep at first, tapers off, and then
falls rapidly as well, as the pool of people who are interested in
upgrading is exhausted.

Frankly, not everyone is interested in upgrading. My family has
Advanced, General, and Tech-class licensees. None of them have any
intention of upgrading, the last I knew.


Absolutely new people won't be testing until around a year from
now.

I'm not quite sure how you formulate this claim. It certainly doesn't
take a year to study to pass an amateur radio examination. People
finding out about the licensing changes now could have a license in-
hand virtually immediately. Certainly within 60 to 90 days.

We've already had a codeless license for 15 years. All we have now are
codeless HF licenses as well. Is there going to be this huge influx of
people who never got licensed as Techs because they couldn't operate
HF? I seriously doubt it.

I'm sure there will be some, but the number will be statistically
insignificant.


73
kh6hz
/////// Original Message Ends /////////

////// MY RESPONSE TO THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE ///////
KH6HZ wrote:
On Mar 4, 12:49 pm, "Dee Flint" wrote:

Already the flurry of applicants has dropped and attendance
is close to that of pre-Feb 23 levels.

This is not surprising. Amateur radio has already had a "code-free"
license for 15 years. The claims that there was this huge untapped
reservoir of new licensees just waiting for a "code-free HF" license
was never supported by any facts -- just supposition and anecdotal
claims of "deaf PhD EE friends". Why anyone would even think there
would be this huge wave of new applicants is beyond me.
...

Oh my goodness, then that is the problem, isn't it. You are just
ignorant to the fact that HF freqs have MUCH different characteristics
than VHF, UHF and the mirowave freqs and beyond--and right up till light
freqs ...

A basic book on amateur radio will explain to you why HF would be much
more desirable to some ... that should clear up your little problem of
ignorance and bring you up to speed with the rest of us.

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com
///// MY RESPONSE TO THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE ENDS ////////

///// WHAT THE AUTOMATON STATED WAS REASON FOR REJECTION //////
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I wish the parent message in this thread had not been approved. - K3FU



Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.

Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:

http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html

Please direct any queries to .

Thank you,

- Moderation Team.

============================================ Full text of your message
follows
From Tue Mar 6 20:51:06 2007
Return-Path:
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on
mailcrunch1.panix.com
X-Spam-Level: **
X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.6 required=5.0 tests=URIBL_OB_SURBL
autolearn=disabled version=3.1.6
X-Original-To:
Delivered-To:
Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74])
by mailproc1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C2DE1C92C1
for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 20:51:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: by mail3.panix.com (Postfix)
id AD31813A86E; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 20:51:05 -0500 (EST)
Delivered-To:
Received: from pinatubo.switch.ch (pinatubo-2.switch.ch [130.59.1.10])
by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6660613A85C
for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2007
20:50:52 -0500 (EST)
Received: from [2001:4c90:2::6] (helo=pegasus.linuxfan.it)
by pinatubo.switch.ch with esmtp (Exim 4.50)
id 1HOlIq-0006l0-6O
for ; Wed, 07 Mar
2007 02:50:52 +0100
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by pegasus.linuxfan.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3EF9B163
for ; Wed, 7 Mar
2007 02:50:51 +0100 (CET)
Received: from pegasus.linuxfan.it ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (pegasus.linuxfan.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port
10024)
with ESMTP id 29410-08
for ;
Wed, 7 Mar 2007 02:50:51 +0100 (CET)
Received: by pegasus.linuxfan.it (Postfix, from userid 9)
id ECCD69B162; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 02:50:50 +0100 (CET)
To:
Path: nnrp.linuxfan.it!not-for-mail
From: John Smith I
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.moderated
Subject: Exam session attendance
Organization: linuxfan.it News Server
Message-ID:
References:
.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 66-81-62-254.nocal.dialup.o1.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: nnrp.linuxfan.it 1173232250 8167 66.81.62.254 (7 Mar 2007
01:50:50 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 01:50:50 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at linuxfan.it
X-Virus-Status: No

KH6HZ wrote:
On Mar 4, 12:49 pm, "Dee Flint" wrote:

Already the flurry of applicants has dropped and attendance
is close to that of pre-Feb 23 levels.

This is not surprising. Amateur radio has already had a "code-free"
license for 15 years. The claims that there was this huge untapped
reservoir of new licensees just waiting for a "code-free HF" license
was never supported by any facts -- just supposition and anecdotal
claims of "deaf PhD EE friends". Why anyone would even think there
would be this huge wave of new applicants is beyond me.
...

Oh my goodness, then that is the problem, isn't it. You are just
ignorant to the fact that HF freqs have MUCH different characteristics
than VHF, UHF and the mirowave freqs and beyond--and right up till
light
freqs ...

A basic book on amateur radio will explain to you why HF would be much
more desirable to some ... that should clear up your little problem of
ignorance and bring you up to speed with the rest of us.

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (NetBSD)

iQCVAwUBRe4bTEjvESE1wn77AQJgsgP8C5XjpmM91NHKUeXrdF Loj+gKw6QfZDM6
LXLAlqwJ3JTEt5HIo+BZ2gQfXqMQQt3m2hsBBOzHcc1d4KjJg5 h/YQkTi43By+kQ
BXCDdXbQdQUIwcXsZRn5lXKj5OwL6L9ESCWt9kcUeLXRgiblfB Ci3wWdB91CkwSM
1jBkuWLJNxI=
=pJrV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
//// AUTOMATON STATEMENT ENDS //////////////////////

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

[Dloyd Lavies]

On Mar 6, 9:04�pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. *My REJECTED response to that
message. *And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.

That's why I don't really bother to post anything to the new moderated
group. Although it is a nice change of pace to read threads. Just by
the nature of my posting name prevents any posts from getting through
the moderators, plus its all subjective, what may get through today,
may not pass tomorrow, who has time to decipher what is acceptable
today and what will pass muster tomorrow, with each different
moderator.

In your case, even the reasoning provided by Paul shows that all the
moderators are not on the same page. I would rather post on e-ham or
qrz, even though they moderate, it appears that it is at least done at
some level of consistent moderation. I suppose it is probably
easier on those sites because they have the forums broken down by
subject matter with individual moderators for each subject, instead of
the group moderation in place here. I guess that over time they will
work out the kinks to be more consistent.

Dloyd

[Bignose Bernie the Bagelman]

Moderated newsgroups suck errect penis in a shemale' asscrack.
Always will too.

[John Smith I]

wrote:

...
come now we knew real debate was going to be limited at best
...

Just like to take a look at things in the daylight, ya can see better in
that light, yanno?

JS
--
http://assemblywizard.tekcities.com

[Dloyd Lavies]

On Mar 7, 7:49�pm, wrote:
On 6 Mar 2007 18:38:43 -0800, "Dloyd Lavies"
wrote:

On Mar 6, 9:04?pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM.
y REJECTED response to that
message.

nd, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.

That's why I don't really bother to post anything to the new moderated
group

*good for you since you never post anything ontopichttp://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

See Mark, I post something on topic in response to JP's thread and you
have to come on this thread and start your attack, and then you whine
when someone jumps on you. Please don't try to make this thread all
about you. We see enough of that already.

Dloyd

[an_old_friend]

On Mar 7, 8:07 pm, "Dloyd Lavies" wrote:
On Mar 7, 7:49?pm, wrote:





On 6 Mar 2007 18:38:43 -0800, "Dloyd Lavies"
wrote:

On Mar 6, 9:04?pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM.
y REJECTED response to that
message.

nd, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.

That's why I don't really bother to post anything to the new moderated
group

?good for you since you never post anything ontopichttp://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

See Mark, I post something on topic in response to JP's thread and you
have to come on this thread and start your attack,........

where is you post a radio I don't see it

..... and then you whine
when someone jumps on you.

you are the one whining

Please don't try to make this thread all
about you.

you are the one that is contanting trying to make everything about r
rather one of them

Dloyd- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

[KC4UAI]

On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. My REJECTED response to that
message. And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.


Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:


http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html


Please direct any queries to .
snip



John,

So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.

-= bob =-

[[email protected]]

On Mar 8, 8:30�am, "KC4UAI" wrote:
On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:





To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. *My REJECTED response to that
message. *And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.

Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:

* * * *http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html

Please direct any queries to .
snip

John,

So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.

Not if one is a moderator. :-(

Try understanding that not everyone is a daily participant
in any newsgroup. They may be absent for several days.
Those non-daily participants MAY have something cogent
and meaningful about a discussion topic. A solution to the
"closed thread" could be a simple posting that a particular
thread has been closed by "the moderators."

Such a message does NOT have to be the multi-screen
multi-quote and link-full messages usually sent. Let's not
waste any more time for anyone with all this very-NON-
instant messaging.

I've been a participant in computer-modem communications
for 23 years on BBSs, private networks, and the Internet
carried "usenet" newsgroups. Yes, I've also been a moderator
on some large local BBSs and know what it is like. You WILL
get angry denunciations from the dissatisfied. TS. The skin
MUST grow tough and thick to do the job.

Now there is a "board" of moderators...more likely one has
their "turn in the barrel" for a day, checking up on content.
If the "board" wanted to do a good job, go out on PATROL;
i.e., roam the territory and, if something irritates them, try
sending warning messages privately, then publicly. It is
better than simply "closing the doors" and not saying
anything to anyone in public.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.

The "board" ought to get its act together as a unit...work
on this "moderation" as a cohesive unit, not a disparate
collection of individuals relying on some (unknown)
program "robocop" checking out the post content of
those NOT on the "white list," sending out private e-mail
notices, and generally wasting time with all this "appeals"
busy work which can take days.

What we've got is a fine medium for written comms to
spread at the speed of light but a bunch of overseers
busy with overkill on content so that days and days
pass along with extreme interruption of a thread subject.

Now, if the "moderators" can't tell the difference between
middle-school machismo sex talk along with personal
insult and invective compared with heated discussion on
polarized subject threads...just give up. I don't think all
the "organized officialdom pontification" is going to do
its job effectively. Unless "effective" is a re-definition of
one-sided, nice-nice group think that is far from
DISCUSSION as it can get. George Orwell had a point
with both novels "Animal Farm" and "1984."

On "moderation" I've been there, got lots of T-shirts,
wore out a few. The "moderated newsgroup" idea is
nice only in theory but, in practice, it is just trying to
re-invent a wheel...one that has lots of flat sections
on it. That's been done before and hasn't worked well.
The "board" may be an innovation but all those "appeals"
are just time-wasting busy work. Think about it.

73, AF6AY

[an old friend]

On Mar 8, 2:09�pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:30?am, "KC4UAI" wrote:





On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:

To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. ?My REJECTED response to that
message. ?And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.

Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:

? ? ? ?http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html

Please direct any queries to .
snip

John,

So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.

* *Not if one is a moderator. *:-(

* *Try understanding that not everyone is a daily participant
* *in any newsgroup. *They may be absent for several days.
* *Those non-daily participants MAY have something cogent
* *and meaningful about a discussion topic. *A solution to the
* *"closed thread" could be a simple posting that a particular
* *thread has been closed by "the moderators."

* *Such a message does NOT have to be the multi-screen
* *multi-quote and link-full messages usually sent. *Let's not
* *waste any more time for anyone with all this very-NON-
* *instant messaging.

* *I've been a participant in computer-modem communications
* *for 23 years on BBSs, private networks, and the Internet
* *carried "usenet" newsgroups. *Yes, I've also been a moderator
* *on some large local BBSs and know what it is like. *You WILL
* *get angry denunciations from the dissatisfied. *TS. *The skin
* *MUST grow tough and thick to do the job.

* *Now there is a "board" of moderators...more likely one has
* *their "turn in the barrel" for a day, checking up on content.
* *If the "board" wanted to do a good job, go out on PATROL;
* *i.e., roam the territory and, if something irritates them, try
* *sending warning messages privately, then publicly. *It is
* *better than simply "closing the doors" and not saying
* *anything to anyone in public.

If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.

* *The "board" ought to get its act together as a unit...work
* *on this "moderation" as a cohesive unit, not a disparate
* *collection of individuals relying on some (unknown)
* *program "robocop" checking out the post content of
* *those NOT on the "white list," sending out private e-mail
* *notices, and generally wasting time with all this "appeals"
* *busy work which can take days.

* *What we've got is a fine medium for written comms to
* *spread at the speed of light but a bunch of overseers
* *busy with overkill on content so that days and days
* *pass along with extreme interruption of a thread subject.

* *Now, if the "moderators" can't tell the difference between
* *middle-school machismo sex talk along with personal
* *insult and invective compared with heated discussion on
* *polarized subject threads...just give up. *I don't think all
* *the "organized officialdom pontification" is going to do
* *its job effectively. *Unless "effective" is a re-definition of
* *one-sided, nice-nice group think that is far from
* *DISCUSSION as it can get. *George Orwell had a point
* *with both novels "Animal Farm" and "1984."

* *On "moderation" I've been there, got lots of T-shirts,
* *wore out a few. *The "moderated newsgroup" idea is
* *nice only in theory but, in practice, it is just trying to
* *re-invent a wheel...one that has lots of flat sections
* *on it. *That's been done before and hasn't worked well.
* *The "board" may be an innovation but all those "appeals"
* *are just time-wasting busy work. *Think about it.

* *73, AF6AY- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

just another stalking thread
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[KC4UAI]

On Mar 8, 10:32 am, wrote:
On 8 Mar 2007 08:30:58 -0800, "KC4UAI" wrote:

On Mar 6, 8:04 pm, John Smith I wrote:
To Whom It May Concern:

Following is a message taken from RRAM. My REJECTED response to that
message. And, a message from the automaton on WHY the message was rejected.
snip
Your message has been rejected because you posted into a thread that had
strayed off topic and was closed by the moderators. All messages from
all posters, posted to this thread, are autorejected, and this rejection
does not single you out in any way.

Please read the charter of rec.radio.amateur.moderated at:

http://www.panix.com/~rram/usenet/rram/index.html

Please direct any queries to .
snip

John,

So your message was rejected because the thread was closed.... I don't
see a problem with that.

interesting the that he was not old this


You mean he was not told this in "advance" because the e-mail he
quoted clearly says that the thread was closed and that was why his
post was automatically rejected. Which is part of what I didn't snip
out of the original message.


If you do, please appeal the decision and it will be reviewed by the
board, who are not involved in any of the day to day moderation
decisions.

and frankly this alowing one insult in then closing the thread is
pretty lame


I don't understand what "insult" you are talking about. Closing a
thread is a valid moderation decision when the thread starts drifting
off the original poster's topic. This does cause the rejection of
otherwise acceptable posts automatically, which is what seems to be
the case here but that does not mean it's improper.

Again, review by the board is the method posters can use to effect
changes in the moderation practice and force better coordination in
the policy used by all the moderators. Individually we are not above
making mistakes or having differences of opinion about what is
acceptable but we can and do discuss various decisions that are close
to the line. We routinely discuss these issues as a group and we
routinely are asking each other about posts that are considered
questionable.

So.. If you think something was rejected for a bad reason.. Try to
edit your submission and make it acceptable, use the appeals process
or simply move on and forget it.

-= bob =-