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-   -   Contact the FCC and Tell Them to get rid of CW Test and Requirements (https://www.radiobanter.com/policy/26670-re-contact-fcc-tell-them-get-rid-cw-test-requirements.html)

Kf6vyh July 24th 03 03:28 PM

Contact the FCC and Tell Them to get rid of CW Test and Requirements
 
Don't do anything so a few spoiled hams can keep their precious
bands to themselves and keep the average citizen out of ham radio.


The average citizen has no FCC lic.and no interest it what happens to ham
radio. THis is who we do not want. THe average citizen belongs on 11 meters

Kf6vyh July 24th 03 03:35 PM

If you want to CW reqiurement to go away, some one is going need to file a
petition for rule change with the FCC. Until this happens, nothing can change,
I have no problem with the CW requirement going away, as the FCC has stated
Being able to send CW does not make some one a proficient ham operator.
So for those who want to get on HF and not learn code, get of your asses and
file a petition with the FCC. Otherwise, start to study and learn CW.

Scott Unit 69 July 24th 03 05:26 PM



Kf6vyh wrote:

If you want to CW reqiurement to go away, some one is going need to file a
petition for rule change with the FCC. Until this happens, nothing can change,
I have no problem with the CW requirement going away, as the FCC has stated
Being able to send CW does not make some one a proficient ham operator.
So for those who want to get on HF and not learn code, get of your asses and
file a petition with the FCC. Otherwise, start to study and learn CW.


Print and keep:
http://www.texasstar.com/code.gif

Mike Coslo July 24th 03 07:27 PM

Keith wrote:

Another EXTRA class licensee that wants to keep dinosaur technology in ham
radio testing. Don't do anything so a few spoiled hams can keep their precious
bands to themselves and keep the average citizen out of ham radio.


The way to get the average citizen involved in ham radio is to
eliminate the tests altogether.

NTI anyone?

- Mike KB3EIA -



Mike Coslo July 24th 03 07:29 PM

Kf6vyh wrote:
If you want to CW reqiurement to go away, some one is going need to file a
petition for rule change with the FCC. Until this happens, nothing can change,
I have no problem with the CW requirement going away, as the FCC has stated
Being able to send CW does not make some one a proficient ham operator.
So for those who want to get on HF and not learn code, get of your asses and
file a petition with the FCC. Otherwise, start to study and learn CW.



Then again, just about any ARS test subject doesn't make proficiency
one way or the other, does it?

- mike KB3EIA -


Elmer E Ing July 24th 03 08:11 PM

Average, above average, and below average citizens have access to radio --
CB, FRS, GMRS, MURS with no tests.

The best way to get the average citizen in to ham radio is to pass the
tests -- The FCC sed that

You did that when you got your drivers license -- didn't you ???

How did you get thru school, el, hi, college -- took the damn tests --
right?

Achieve me buckos, can do, be all you can be -- take the damn test! Audacity
that's the spirit!
---------------------------------------------

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Keith wrote:

Another EXTRA class licensee that wants to keep dinosaur technology in

ham
radio testing. Don't do anything so a few spoiled hams can keep their

precious
bands to themselves and keep the average citizen out of ham radio.


The way to get the average citizen involved in ham radio is to
eliminate the tests altogether.

NTI anyone?

- Mike KB3EIA -





Roßert G. Schaffrath July 24th 03 10:37 PM

Keith wrote:

As long as no code techs and others that are interested in HF ham radio
operation do nothing the FCC and the ARRL will drag their feet to keep this
dinosaur technology for the next year or so.
Write the FCC and let them know this is not satisfactory. There are 200,000+
hams that deserve immediate access to the HF bands today.

To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail
Chairman Michael K. Powell:
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy:

Commissioner Michael J. Copps:

Commissioner Kevin J. Martin:

Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein:


If you do nothing then nothing can change. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CWProtest/

--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/


Deserve?

N2EY July 24th 03 11:22 PM

In article , "Roland Stiner"
writes:

The FCC is unresponsive to the public's wishes, they do what they want; look
at the recent decision to expand media ownership by one company!


Didn't the House overrule the FCC on that one a few days ago?

73 de Jim, N2EY



Walt Bertram July 24th 03 11:45 PM

You "deserve" nothing! You wanna be on HF? Study the code.

And, for the record, I was never able to pass the code test. So, I
never got a ham ticket.

Keith wrote:

As long as no code techs and others that are interested in HF ham radio
operation do nothing the FCC and the ARRL will drag their feet to keep this
dinosaur technology for the next year or so.
Write the FCC and let them know this is not satisfactory. There are 200,000+
hams that deserve immediate access to the HF bands today.

To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail
Chairman Michael K. Powell:
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy:

Commissioner Michael J. Copps:

Commissioner Kevin J. Martin:

Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein:


If you do nothing then nothing can change. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CWProtest/

--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/


Jim Hampton July 25th 03 12:33 AM

Keith,

A tech will still have to pass the element 3 written in order to obtain the
general. A modest try at a troll, no doubt.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/03



Larry Roll K3LT July 25th 03 04:43 AM

In article , Keith
writes:

As long as no code techs and others that are interested in HF ham radio
operation do nothing the FCC and the ARRL will drag their feet to keep this
dinosaur technology for the next year or so.
Write the FCC and let them know this is not satisfactory. There are 200,000+
hams that deserve immediate access to the HF bands today.

To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail
Chairman Michael K. Powell:
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy:

Commissioner Michael J. Copps:

Commissioner Kevin J. Martin:

Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein:


If you do nothing then nothing can change. The squeaky wheel gets the
grease.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CWProtest/




Dan/W4NTI July 25th 03 11:14 PM


"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith
writes:

As long as no code techs and others that are interested in HF ham radio
operation do nothing the FCC and the ARRL will drag their feet to keep

this
dinosaur technology for the next year or so.
Write the FCC and let them know this is not satisfactory. There are

200,000+
hams that deserve immediate access to the HF bands today.

To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail
Chairman Michael K. Powell:
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy:

Commissioner Michael J. Copps:

Commissioner Kevin J. Martin:

Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein:


If you do nothing then nothing can change. The squeaky wheel gets the
grease.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CWProtest/

--
The Radio Page Ham, Police Scanner, Shortwave and more.
http://www.kilowatt-radio.org/


Well, I did just what you asked! Here is what I sent:

----------------------

TO: Michael K. Powell, Chairman, FCC

Dear Chairman Powell,

I am an Amateur Radio Operator, licensed for over 21 years. As you know,
the recent World Radiocommunication Conference, WRC-03, has eliminated
the ITU International Treaty requirement for Morse Code proficiency

testing,
and has left the decision whether or not to require Morse code testing in

any
member nation's Amateur Radio Service up to the individual

administrations.
I appeal to you NOT to take any action to eliminate the Morse code test
(Element 1) from the U.S. FCC Amateur Radio Licensing requirements.

You will undoubtedly be receiving many petitions from current and
prospective radio amateurs to do this, but the fact is, these people are
simply unqualified to know and understand the benefits and advantages
of the Morse/CW mode in the Amateur Radio Service. Indeed they, for
the most part, simply desire to be relieved of the necessity to expend the
time and effort required to learn a useful radiocommunications skill at
a basic proficiency level. Such "dumbing-down" of Amateur Radio
serves no useful purpose, and would, in fact, probably have the effect
of placing HF radiotelephone operating privileges in the hands of a large
number of eager, yet technically uninvolved individuals. This could
cause a dramatic increase in the number of operating violations on the
HF voice allocations, increasing the FCC's enforcement workload
without having any overall positive impact on the service.

Knowledge of the Morse code gives radio amateurs the ability to
communicate effectively using low power, and under operating
conditions which cause even the latest digital modes to fail. It is the
ultimate backup communications mode. Unfortunately, the many
benefits of the Morse/CW mode will be increasingly unavailable to
radio amateurs if future operators are not required to obtain even an
entry-level exposure to the use of the Morse code through a testing
requirement for an amateur license with HF operating privileges.
Therefore, I urge you to simply leave the FCC's amateur radio
licensing structure and requirements as it is, and retain the Element
1 Morse code test forever. I assure you that this is in the best
interest of the Amateur Radio Service and the FCC.

Sincerely,

Lawrence J. Roll, K3LT
1300 S. Farm View Dr. A-31
Dover, DE 19904-7721
(302) [xxx-xxxx]

----------------------

Note: Copies to be sent to the Commissioners as well.

73 de Larry, K3LT


Bravo Bravo capital job my man. Let the whinning commence.

Dan/W4NTI



Radio Amateur KC2HMZ July 26th 03 12:26 AM

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:13:24 -0700, Keith
wrote:

As long as no code techs and others that are interested in HF ham radio
operation do nothing the FCC and the ARRL will drag their feet to keep this
dinosaur technology for the next year or so.
Write the FCC and let them know this is not satisfactory. There are 200,000+
hams that deserve immediate access to the HF bands today.

To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail
Chairman Michael K. Powell:
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy:

Commissioner Michael J. Copps:

Commissioner Kevin J. Martin:

Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein:



In the meantime, let's hope the spambots capture those addresses, it
might help convince the givernment to do something on the federal
level about unsolicited commercial e-mail.

If you do nothing then nothing can change.


Is that why you've been doing nothing about trying to pass a code
test?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.


Or gets tossed in the scrap heap after it's been replaced with a brand
new one.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CWProtest/

Speaking of yahoos, your two signed posts came from extra.newsguy.com
as did the anonymous post encouraging no-code Techs to violate the
terms of their license. Coincidence? Or merely a troll who doesn't
realize that nothing on the Internet is truly anonymous? You decide.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ


Alun Palmer July 26th 03 05:36 AM

[posted and mailed]

"Phil Kane" wrote in
.net:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:13:24 -0700, Keith wrote:

Write the FCC and let them know this is not satisfactory. There are
200,000+ hams that deserve immediate access to the HF bands today.

To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail
Chairman Michael K. Powell:
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy:

Commissioner Michael J. Copps:

Commissioner Kevin J. Martin:

Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein:


If you do nothing then nothing can change. The squeaky wheel gets the
grease.


Ah, I see that you are playing lawyer, Keith.

The above is NOT the correct procedure to get the Rules changed. It
will only annoy the Five Tubeless Tyres (tm) who have no conception
of what amateur radio and code tests are all about nor do they wasnt
to acquire same. That's much lower-level staff work.....

Thank you for playing and be sure to come back some other time.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Principal Attorney (retired)
Communications Law Center
San Francisco, CA




Phil, I've written a petition. Care to take a look at it?

Phil Kane July 26th 03 05:40 AM

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:00:39 -0500, Dan/W4NTI wrote:

As I understand it a committee of the House voted to overturn it. It would
then need to go to the Senate. And all that bs.

This may indeed be the ONLY route we have to take against the FCC concerning
BPL.


No, there's also a route through the U S Court of Appeals for the
Dictrict of Columbia. This may be better because the Court doesn't
get election campaign assistance from the industry.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon



justdave1 July 26th 03 12:09 PM


"Keith" wrote in message
...
As long as no code techs and others that are interested in HF ham radio
operation do nothing the FCC and the ARRL will drag their feet to keep

this
dinosaur technology for the next year or so.
Write the FCC and let them know this is not satisfactory. There are

200,000+
hams that deserve immediate access to the HF bands today.

To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail
Chairman Michael K. Powell:
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy:

Commissioner Michael J. Copps:

Commissioner Kevin J. Martin:

Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein:


If you do nothing then nothing can change. The squeaky wheel gets the

grease.



Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced...




J999w July 26th 03 09:26 PM

dinosaur technology

CW ?

Hardly, CW is ALIVE AND WELL in the ham bands today.

YEA !!!

jw
wb9uai

Phil Kane July 27th 03 01:28 AM

On 26 Jul 2003 04:36:47 GMT, Alun Palmer wrote:

Phil, I've written a petition. Care to take a look at it?


Be glad to. Address OK in callbook.


--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon



J999w August 2nd 03 03:26 AM


this dinosaur technology


Dinosaurs are extinct ... CW is NOT.

Long live the code.

jw
wb9uai



Erik Swanson August 15th 03 11:18 PM

ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) wrote in message ...

.... previous quoted message elided ...



Well, I did just what you asked! Here is what I sent:

----------------------

TO: Michael K. Powell, Chairman, FCC

Dear Chairman Powell,

....

You will undoubtedly be receiving many petitions from current and
prospective radio amateurs to do this, but the fact is, these people are
simply unqualified to know and understand the benefits and advantages
of the Morse/CW mode in the Amateur Radio Service.


A mode that is now out of use by pretty much all government services
(emergency services included). I personally have an interest in
learning the code, but don't see how it should remain a requirement if
it is no longer to be the 'lingua franca' of HF throughout the world.
Yes it is a low bandwidth, low power mode that can be very useful, as
this writer points out, but without that international status I don't
think that it should be required anymore than an in depth
understanding of psk31 or any other digital mode. All operators
should know of its existance, where on the bands it is expected to be
located, and where to learn more. There will always be a place for
Morse/CW and I'm sure there will always be enthusiasts... even if it
is no longer a requirement... just like french is no longer THE lingua
franca of the world ironically enough.

Erik Swanson KG6GOP

Dan/W4NTI August 15th 03 11:54 PM


"Erik Swanson" wrote in message
m...
ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) wrote in message

...

... previous quoted message elided ...



Well, I did just what you asked! Here is what I sent:

----------------------

TO: Michael K. Powell, Chairman, FCC

Dear Chairman Powell,

...

You will undoubtedly be receiving many petitions from current and
prospective radio amateurs to do this, but the fact is, these people are
simply unqualified to know and understand the benefits and advantages
of the Morse/CW mode in the Amateur Radio Service.


A mode that is now out of use by pretty much all government services
(emergency services included). I personally have an interest in
learning the code, but don't see how it should remain a requirement if
it is no longer to be the 'lingua franca' of HF throughout the world.
Yes it is a low bandwidth, low power mode that can be very useful, as
this writer points out, but without that international status I don't
think that it should be required anymore than an in depth
understanding of psk31 or any other digital mode. All operators
should know of its existance, where on the bands it is expected to be
located, and where to learn more. There will always be a place for
Morse/CW and I'm sure there will always be enthusiasts... even if it
is no longer a requirement... just like french is no longer THE lingua
franca of the world ironically enough.

Erik Swanson KG6GOP


You did real well up to the Frency part. Whatever they agree with is
screwed up to start with.

Dan/W4NTI



Robert Casey August 16th 03 03:00 AM

Phil Kane wrote:


You do know that letters, e-mails, etc. do not get put into the
Docket Record and therefore are not required to be considered in
reaching a decision unless they are formally filed using the format
and procedures specified in Part 1 of the FCC Rules.


Now if there was a way to find the petition for rule making the NCVEC
sent in, then we
could comment on it. I can't find it at the FCC's web page. Seems if
you don't know the
number, you're screwed.....


Carl R. Stevenson August 16th 03 03:16 AM


"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...
Phil Kane wrote:


You do know that letters, e-mails, etc. do not get put into the
Docket Record and therefore are not required to be considered in
reaching a decision unless they are formally filed using the format
and procedures specified in Part 1 of the FCC Rules.


Now if there was a way to find the petition for rule making the NCVEC
sent in, then we
could comment on it. I can't find it at the FCC's web page. Seems if
you don't know the
number, you're screwed.....


It hasn't been assigned an RM number or put on public notice yet ...

NONE of the Petitions are open for comment yet ... the procedure
is to wait for them to be assigned an RM number and put on public
notice. Comments filed before then probably go into the bit-bucket.

BTW, NCI's Petition was filed Aug. 13 and is available on the
NCI website at http://www.nocode.org under the "Articles" link
as a .pdf download.

73,
--
Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c
Grid Square FN20fm
http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c
------------------------------------------------------
NCI-1052
Executive Director, No Code International
Fellow, The Radio Club of America
Senior Member, IEEE
Member, IEEE Standards Association
Chair, IEEE 802.18 Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group
Chair-elect, Wi-Fi Alliance Regulatory Committee
Co-Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Legislative Committee
Member, QCWA (31424)
Member, ARRL
Member, TAPR
Member, The SETI League
------------------------------------------------------
Join No Code International! Hams for the 21st Century.
Help assure the survival and prosperity of ham radio.
http://www.nocode.org



Mike Coslo August 18th 03 09:32 PM

Thanks for the link to your proposal, Carl.


A question though. I notice that the proposal to drop element one is
there, but why doesn't the proposal rename the other elements so that
they are in sequence?

I've been around enough of these sort of documents to know that sooner
or later it will have to be changed.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Brian August 19th 03 11:50 PM

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
Thanks for the link to your proposal, Carl.


A question though. I notice that the proposal to drop element one is
there, but why doesn't the proposal rename the other elements so that
they are in sequence?

I've been around enough of these sort of documents to know that sooner
or later it will have to be changed.

- Mike KB3EIA -


I dunno, Mike. Were you around during the last restructuring? The
NPRM was the most amateurish piece of literature I've ever seen from a
government agency. The R/O was the second most. Left more questions
than answers. Of course, there was a lot of interference from the
ARRL in the process, so...

Steve Robeson, K4CAP August 20th 03 02:09 PM

(Brian) wrote in message . com...
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
Thanks for the link to your proposal, Carl.


A question though. I notice that the proposal to drop element one is
there, but why doesn't the proposal rename the other elements so that
they are in sequence?

I've been around enough of these sort of documents to know that sooner
or later it will have to be changed.

- Mike KB3EIA -


I dunno, Mike. Were you around during the last restructuring? The
NPRM was the most amateurish piece of literature I've ever seen from a
government agency. The R/O was the second most. Left more questions
than answers. Of course, there was a lot of interference from the
ARRL in the process, so...


"Interference"...?!?!

So participation in the rulemaking process is
"interference"...?!?! Or is that just the people or organizations you
don't agree with, Brain?

Steve, K4YZ

Mike Coslo August 20th 03 02:58 PM



Brian wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

Thanks for the link to your proposal, Carl.


A question though. I notice that the proposal to drop element one is
there, but why doesn't the proposal rename the other elements so that
they are in sequence?

I've been around enough of these sort of documents to know that sooner
or later it will have to be changed.

- Mike KB3EIA -



I dunno, Mike. Were you around during the last restructuring?


nope.

The
NPRM was the most amateurish piece of literature I've ever seen from a
government agency. The R/O was the second most. Left more questions
than answers. Of course, there was a lot of interference from the
ARRL in the process, so...


Hmm, too bad. Hard to imagine having an element 2, 3, and 4, but no
element 1. It would make good joke material, or maybe the start of a
legend. "The ghost of Element 1" 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -


WA3IYC August 21st 03 06:56 AM

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Hard to imagine having an element 2, 3, and 4, but no
element 1.


Not really!

Back before restructuring, we had the following elements (IIRC):

1A - 5 wpm code
1B - 13 wpm code
1C - 20 wpm code
2 - Novice written
3A - Tech written
3B - General written
4A - Advanced written
4B - Extra written

Before March 21, 1987, the Tech and General used the same written, called
Element 3. When they split that into two separate tests, the names were changed
to 3A and 3B. A similar split took place back in 1967 when the Extra written
(Element 4) was split into Advanced and Extra.

Etc.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Mike Coslo August 21st 03 02:03 PM

WA3IYC wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Hard to imagine having an element 2, 3, and 4, but no
element 1.



Not really!

Back before restructuring, we had the following elements (IIRC):

1A - 5 wpm code
1B - 13 wpm code
1C - 20 wpm code
2 - Novice written
3A - Tech written
3B - General written
4A - Advanced written
4B - Extra written


hmmmm, I don't know about you, but I really like to have the numbers
line up.

Before March 21, 1987, the Tech and General used the same written, called
Element 3. When they split that into two separate tests, the names were changed
to 3A and 3B. A similar split took place back in 1967 when the Extra written
(Element 4) was split into Advanced and Extra.

Etc.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Where you posting from, Jim?

- Mike KB3EIA -



Carl R. Stevenson August 21st 03 02:19 PM

I suspect that when the FCC eliminates "Element 1" they will (editorially)
renumber the elements.

Carl - wk3c

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ...
WA3IYC wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Hard to imagine having an element 2, 3, and 4, but no
element 1.



Not really!

Back before restructuring, we had the following elements (IIRC):

1A - 5 wpm code
1B - 13 wpm code
1C - 20 wpm code
2 - Novice written
3A - Tech written
3B - General written
4A - Advanced written
4B - Extra written


hmmmm, I don't know about you, but I really like to have the numbers
line up.

Before March 21, 1987, the Tech and General used the same written,

called
Element 3. When they split that into two separate tests, the names were

changed
to 3A and 3B. A similar split took place back in 1967 when the Extra

written
(Element 4) was split into Advanced and Extra.

Etc.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Where you posting from, Jim?

- Mike KB3EIA -




Mike Coslo August 21st 03 02:25 PM

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
I suspect that when the FCC eliminates "Element 1" they will (editorially)
renumber the elements.



I sure hope so, Carl! Stuff like that drives me crazy!


yea.. I know.. I'm already there..

- Mike KB3EIA -


Phil Kane August 22nd 03 05:56 AM

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:03:31 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:

hmmmm, I don't know about you, but I really like to have the numbers
line up.


So do I, but if it's a choice of dropping the code test NOW and
leaving a hole where Element 1 used to be to be dealt with at some
future date, or futzing around for months with a total reorganization
of test elements, privileges, band segments, etc via a series of NPRMs
in a taffy-pull that will make r.r.a.p. look like a sedate cricket match,
I take the former every time.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane



WA3IYC August 22nd 03 11:43 AM

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

hmmmm, I don't know about you, but I really like to have the numbers
line up.


Apparently it didn't bother FCC for decades. But then again, they often focus
on the wrong things.

Before March 21, 1987, the Tech and General used the same written, called
Element 3. When they split that into two separate tests, the names were

changed
to 3A and 3B. A similar split took place back in 1967 when the Extra

written
(Element 4) was split into Advanced and Extra.

Etc.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Where you posting from, Jim?


Home, as usual.

There are three screen names on this account. One is used by other(s), one is
my call and this one is a "universal spare" based on my old call. For some
reason AOL is having trouble with NG access on my other screen name so I
switched over to this one for a while.

But I'm still me.

73 de Jim, N2EY



WA3IYC August 22nd 03 11:43 AM

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:03:31 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:

hmmmm, I don't know about you, but I really like to have the numbers
line up.


So do I, but if it's a choice of dropping the code test NOW and
leaving a hole where Element 1 used to be to be dealt with at some
future date, or futzing around for months with a total reorganization
of test elements, privileges, band segments, etc via a series of NPRMs
in a taffy-pull that will make r.r.a.p. look like a sedate cricket match,
I take the former every time.


I'm afraid we're gonna get the taffy-pull/furball anyway, though. By inaction,
FCC has opened the floodgates to a zillion petitions on everyhting under the
sun. Which will then be smooshed into an NPRM, and finally maybe some rules
changes that have little resemblance to said NPRM.

Maybe somewhere in there that stupid BPL idea will get squelched.

No offense, Phil, but the fact that we even have to fight as bad an idea as BPL
has caused my respect for a certain "expert agency" to all but disappear.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Mike Coslo August 22nd 03 05:59 PM

Phil Kane wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:03:31 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:


hmmmm, I don't know about you, but I really like to have the numbers
line up.



So do I, but if it's a choice of dropping the code test NOW and
leaving a hole where Element 1 used to be to be dealt with at some
future date, or futzing around for months with a total reorganization
of test elements, privileges, band segments, etc via a series of NPRMs
in a taffy-pull that will make r.r.a.p. look like a sedate cricket match,
I take the former every time.



When you put it that way, yes. Bu I expect that there will be lots of
that taffy pulling, when we have a former President of NCI espousing his
terrible proposed changes, while Carl's method would work without making
a mess. But the FCC has to weigh both. There will probably be even more
proposals as time goes on.

And since many of the statement I've seen from them talk about their
desire to remove regulations, I wonder what the final outcome might be.
In an extreme (admittedly unlikely) outcome, we may not have to worry
about the numbering of the elements. There may be no elements. But I see
a possibility of there being only one element after the dust settles.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Carl R. Stevenson August 22nd 03 08:49 PM


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Phil Kane wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:03:31 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:


hmmmm, I don't know about you, but I really like to have the numbers
line up.



So do I, but if it's a choice of dropping the code test NOW and
leaving a hole where Element 1 used to be to be dealt with at some
future date, or futzing around for months with a total reorganization
of test elements, privileges, band segments, etc via a series of NPRMs
in a taffy-pull that will make r.r.a.p. look like a sedate cricket

match,
I take the former every time.



When you put it that way, yes. Bu I expect that there will be lots of
that taffy pulling, when we have a former President of NCI espousing his
terrible proposed changes,


What are you talking about above? If you're refering to W5YI, he
may have made/not made some PERSONAL comments in the NCVEC
meeting, but as far as I can read, they did not get into the NCVEC
petition ...

while Carl's method would work without making a mess.

By this, I take it you mean NCI's petition ... we appreciate your kind
words of support. :-)

But the FCC has to weigh both. There will probably be even more
proposals as time goes on.

And since many of the statement I've seen from them talk about their
desire to remove regulations, I wonder what the final outcome might be.
In an extreme (admittedly unlikely) outcome, we may not have to worry
about the numbering of the elements. There may be no elements. But I see
a possibility of there being only one element after the dust settles.


The FCC is NOT going to abandon amateur testing ... they can't under
the ITU Radio Regulations ... in fact, there is an ITU Recommenation
on the qualifications of amateurs that is mentioned, though not in a
mandatory
way, in the newly-revised Article 25 ... it's there as "good advice/guidance
to administrations" ...

Carl - wk3c


Dee D. Flint August 22nd 03 10:36 PM


"WA3IYC" wrote in message
...
No offense, Phil, but the fact that we even have to fight as bad an idea

as BPL
has caused my respect for a certain "expert agency" to all but disappear.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Whoever said the FCC was an "expert agency"???

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Phil Kane August 23rd 03 05:11 AM

On 22 Aug 2003 10:43:17 GMT, WA3IYC wrote:

No offense, Phil, but the fact that we even have to fight as bad an
idea as BPL has caused my respect for a certain "expert agency" to all
but disappear.


I hate to admit it, but my own loss of respect for the policy,
administrative, and in some regards technical decisions being made
by the top brass of said "expert agency" was one of the reasons that
this "expert" and many others are no longer with said "agency".

My mentor in climbing the legal ladder just hit the retirement
rolls, and a good protege of mine is heading for same at the end of
next month. They feel the same way.

After a while when one plays in manure one can't get rid of the
smell....

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

Retired and loving every minute of it....
Work was getting in the way of my hobbies



Phil Kane August 23rd 03 05:11 AM

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:48:47 GMT, Mike Coslo wrote:

But there could end up being *one* test, no?

An commision that would seriously consider the technically bankrupt
technology of BPL would be most capable of such a thing.


They are being considered by two entirely different processors with
entirely different agendas and outside pressures.

BPL will be well briefed to the "Eighth Floor" Commission sanctum
folks by the time that the Commission has to look at it, and the
decisions at the Commission level will be industry-political, not
technological.

Ham testing, OTOH, will be decided at the Division Chief level, two
levels below the Commission, and will be rubber-stamped by the
Bureau Chief (one level below) as well as by the Commission.

That's the real world.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon



Len Over 21 August 23rd 03 06:37 AM

In article ,
(WA3IYC) writes:

There are three screen names on this account. One is used by other(s), one is
my call and this one is a "universal spare" based on my old call. For some
reason AOL is having trouble with NG access on my other screen name so I
switched over to this one for a while.


Tsk, tsk, tsk...the same person who made disparaging remarks about
"why would anyone have more than one screen name?"

Strange, isn't it, hypocrites seem to wind up biting themselves...

LHA




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