Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

about a post to James Miccolis

Len Over 21 wrote:

Please tell us all about when you flew those old "A-N" ranges. :-)

Did they let you fly your model aircraft on some old airfields, Len? :-)

Not "old" ones. Try Apollo Field at the Sepulveda Dam Recreation
Area in Los Angeles' San Fernando Valley. Real runway and ramp.
Popular with the Large Scale R/C groups here. Lots of model helo
flying too.

That's great, Len--almost like the real thing.

Model aircraft hobbyists lobbied for and got a whole bunch of 72 MHz
channels for R/C some while back. They still have them. Look in
Part 95, Title 47 CFR.

That's perfectly marvelous.

VORs have been in use on civil airways since before 1960. A lot more
accurate, easier to use, much less pilot error than the "range markers."

Oh, my, you love the past. :-)

An interesting comment coming from one who frequently brings up THE past
as well as his own past. :-)

The OLD "range markers" (actually "range beacon system") went
out with civil aviation way back in 1955 with new ICAO rules on
radio and radionavigation.

VOR or Very high frequency Omnidirectional radio Range, offers at
least a quantum leap over the old morse keyed "A-N" beacons.
Anyone claiming they do air navigation by those old "A-N" beacons
is at least 48 years out of touch with reality.

So who claimed the be doing such navigation? I knew a guy who, back in
the early 1980's, regularly navigated to Louisville from Cincinnati by
homing on WHAS's signal.

Morsemen tend to be out of touch with reality.

How would you know?

Didja know you can address all your written test content complaints to
the VEC QPC? They are radio amateurs themselves.

I'm sure they would include a question on "QFU" if any ham is expected
to line up his ham aircraft on a runway bearing.

Beep, beep.

Why are you concerned? You're no more a radio amateur than you are a
pilot.

I've designed and proved civil aviation radionavigation avionics. Those
worked very well.

Is that the same as being a pilot?

Of course that was as a professional, something you detest.

I don't detest professionals. I worked as a professional.

I passed my US private pilot written exam in 1962. Gave up piloting
due to cost...$17.50/hour dual, $12.00/hour solo back then. A typical
four-place, single-engine, retractable-gear light aircraft back then cost
$30K (Mooney, only bare essentials of instrumentation). Hull insurance
premiums were 10% annual for beginning pilot-owners.

All of that to state that you are not currently a pilot?

Back in 1963 my house purchase price was $30,500. It is now worth
about $375 to $390 thousand if I were to put it on the market. I made a
wise move to invest in real estate instead of a cute lil airplane...those
haven't appreciated very much in 40 years.

Don't get overly-prideful on us, Len. That's the second time you've
mentioned the worth of your home in as many days.

What the hell is your problem, Herr Robust? AVIATION isn't the
subject of this thread...someone else brought up aviation.

Oh, my mistake. I could have sworn that you were commenting about
aviation. In fact, I believe you wrote about it in the post to which
I'm currently responding.

You don't
have anything to do with aviation except to rack up frequent cryer
miles in here.

How would you know?

You don't know a VORTAC from hardtack. If you heard ATCRBS
pronounced you would think it an insect infestation. Pfffft.

ATCRBS doesn't have any vowels.

Dave K8MN

Radio Amateur KC2HMZ wrote in message . ..
On 15 Aug 2003 15:27:46 -0700, (Brian) wrote:


Now you want me to believe that a landmass has no coasts nor adjoining
oceans?

I can think of one place that fits that description. You get there
after departing Christchurch, New Zealand, aboard an LC-130. Nowadays,
at least - back then maybe not. The 109th AMW in Schenectady, NY flies
the LC-130s. Dave, am I warm?

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

John, if you were getting close, you would be cold, not warm. I used
to "flight follow" those routes with respect to the upper level winds
and the computer flight plan database.

And that location has coasts and adjoining oceans. More importantly,
Heil was never there.

Brian

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...

I was "intimately" involved with HF communications across the Pacific in
the 1960's at hours of my own choosing. My station also worked across
the Atlantic and across the Indian Ocean. It did so with less power
than yours and I was still a teenager.

Was this an amateur station?

It most certainly was.

Cool. What amateur call sign did you use?

Mine.

Was it capable of only working over oceans, or could it work over land masses as well?

I wasn't simultaneously living on both coasts, Brian. Try to figure it
out.

Try not being so smug, David.

I wasn't being smug. I suggested that you ponder the question and try
to come up with a plausible answer.

Dave, this basically shows that you are smug without even trying, or
even being cognizant of it.

No, it "basically" does nothing of the kind. At that, there is nothing
necessarily negative about being smug.

You never did say where you were; where your station could work across
the Pacific ocean, and across the Indian and Atlantic oceans.

No, I didn't say. There are numerous places within the continent in
which we live where such is possible. Ponder the matter.

OK.

I'm
trying to think of a geographic location with "both coasts" and those
three oceans.

Keep pondering.

I am. I'm still trying to think of a location that has a coast on the
Indian Ocean, a coast on the Atlantic Ocean, and able to work across
the Pacific Ocean with intimate involvement.

You seem to have misread. I've never written that the location has a
coast on the Indian Ocean and Atlantic Ocean.

So kindly tell us what country that you operated from that had "both
coasts" and three oceans.

I never wrote that it "had" them. I wrote that I operated a station
capable to working across them.

Now you want me to believe that a landmass has no coasts nor adjoining
oceans?

No, I don't want you to believe that.

I was "intimately" involved with HF military communications, working
transatlantic and transpacific paths using a variety of log periodic,
inverted discone and rhombic antennas and either 10 kw or 45 kw
transmitters from 1968-1970. The station was in operation 24/7 but I
generally pulled eight hour shifts...

Of your own choosing, right?

What's the difference for purposes of discussion? Do you know anyone
who ever worked 24 hour days for a solid week?

Your comment, "of my own choosing" sounds very odd for a military
radio station.

Those words don't appear in the paragraph concerning military
communications. You might want to read it again.

The occur in the paragraph where you didn't define the communication
service that you used. You might want to be a little more clear in
your web communications.

How is it that only you are confused?

You said that you had an amateur station, and you pulled military
shifts of your own choosing.

I said nothing of the kind. If you have problems, maybe you can have
someone read it for you.

Maybe, but I wouldn't want them to suffer through your usual muddy
communications.

The only thing muddy is your thought process.

In your original statements above, did you really mean to string
together an amateur station from a country with two coasts and three
oceans, with your military station in Vietnam?

Those things were not strung together. Perhaps you can find someone
with writing skills explain the idea behind paragraphing.

It wouldn't be you.

You're right. I'm not going to help you with remedials.

I was "intimately" involved with in-country HF military operations for a
year in Vietnam.

I spent fifteen "intimate" years overseas with the U.S. Department of
State where I was responsible for all HF and VHF communications whether
by voice, asynchronous data or morse.

So this wasn't amateur radio either?

Read it again and perhaps you'll figure it out.

But I thought this group was to discuss amateur radio. And you do get
after Len for bringing up other services communications, however long
ago it may have been.

Where've you been? Did you read Len's material to which I replied?

I read what you tell Len when he tries to bring up his radio
communication experiences.

That isn't what I asked.

I've spent forty years as an active radio amateur, operating various
modes on bands from 1.8 through 432 MHz.

Aren't you going to ask me if this was military communications or State
Department communications?

No. I recognize this as an amateur radio discussion group, and I
recognize that you are finally addressing amateur radio operations.
Congratulations.

Maybe you can congratulate Len as well, if he ever gets back from the
Korean War.

How can this be possible? You continually remind the world that Len
has no amateur experience.

That hasn't stopped Len from attempting to speak with authority about
what is best for amateur radio.

Why did you stop at 432 MHz? Even most store bought amateur UHF rigs
are capable of going up to 450 Mhz.

Weak signal work on SSB and CW takes place in that area of the band.

It may. Or it may not.

My logs say that it does.

Both.

FM is not a good weak signal mode.

That's where I happen to spend much of my time. Is that all right with
you?

Peachy.

Oh, uhhh. Forgot. Superior Heil "doan do FM (tm Kelly)"

I have a 440 rig at home. I use it occasionally. I use 2m FM

So your statement of frequency ranges above is inaccurate. It would
more accurately read, "1.8 to 450 MHz."

It is much more accurate than your statements in which you could not
properly attribute the words "of my own choosing".

If you would only be more clear.

If only your waters ran a bit deeper...

regularly. Looks like you've struck out on your attempt to hit a nerve,
little electrolyte.

No attempt made. I just figured that such a great ham as yourself was
short changing himself with such a limited portfolio of RF activity.

You may consider my words as a mere summary.

I consider them as mere words.

Once you have the vocabulary built up, you can begin sentence
comprehension.

I can go on and on without ever
touching the recorded and evidencible facts of having spent three
years being actively involved with the latter. That grates on you.

Three years? Three measly years? It grates on me that you'd dare
compare your three years to my experience and pretend to have a lock on
knowledge.

Grates on you, huh?

Figure it out.

No problem.

Then why'd you ask a question?

I just wanted to verify that you experience what the rest of us would
call, "emotion."

It might have been easier to ask that, if it's all you were after.

Some people learn faster than others. Look at everyone's vastly
different learning experiences with Morse Cose to see what I mean.
Some are never able to learn it at all.

Learning rate isn't under discussion. Experience is.

Ah, No. You specifically said, "knowledge." Think about it. Can one
attain knowledge only through experience?

Most certainly.

Then put the things that you are willing to say, but unwilling to
discuss, in brackets [xxx].

Does everything need to be diagrammed in order for you to put the
picture together?

But with respect to radio theory and ops, perhaps Len is a quicker
learner than you. Perhaps not.

Ask him.

I wonder what he would say?

Let me repeat: Ask him.

I think with respect to radio theory and ops, he would say that he
were the quicker learner.

You're guessing. Ask him.

You tell me everyone if learns the same, and if so, I'll have to give
you this one.

Figure it out.

Ah, sorry. You don't get this one.

You can't give what isn't yours.

It's done every day. Have you never heard of government?

I pay the government.

Unless Len actually has more than just the three years
RF experience that you reference.

Ask him. I'm sure he'll be happy to go on about it at great length.

Much like your military and dept. of state resume?

Resume? You mean the summary to counter Len's absurdity?

Absurdity is a land location with two coasts and three oceans.

It surely is. It's a good thing I didn't make any claims about such a
place.

And what of education? Can education play a role in knowledge?

Figure it out.

Ah, you don't get this one either.

Ah, you haven't figured it out.

I've figured out that you've run out of anything that matters.

You are the one with the unanswered questions and you expect me to do
all your work for you?

Dave K8MN

Radio Amateur KC2HMZ wrote:

On 15 Aug 2003 15:27:46 -0700, (Brian) wrote:

Now you want me to believe that a landmass has no coasts nor adjoining
oceans?

I can think of one place that fits that description. You get there
after departing Christchurch, New Zealand, aboard an LC-130. Nowadays,
at least - back then maybe not. The 109th AMW in Schenectady, NY flies
the LC-130s. Dave, am I warm?

You fell into Brian's trap of concocting such a place. I operated right
here in the United States but I know the place you're thinking of
though. My old pal Bob Harler K8MWO, a retired Naval Commander was in
charge of Christchurch support operations for the one you came up with.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

I've figured out that you've run out of anything that matters.

You are the one with the unanswered questions and you expect me to do
all your work for you?

I'm good either way. You just seemed to be in a question answering
mood, but as usual, they were nonsense answers. Perhaps there should
be a no content indicator in the preamble of your messages.

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

I've figured out that you've run out of anything that matters.

You are the one with the unanswered questions and you expect me to do
all your work for you?

I'm good either way.

It doesn't appear that way. You even want me to tell you what Len might
say about something.

You just seemed to be in a question answering
mood, but as usual, they were nonsense answers.

....to nonsense questions.

Perhaps there should
be a no content indicator in the preamble of your messages.

I usually find your name a giveaway.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Perhaps there should
be a no content indicator in the preamble of your messages.

I usually find your name a giveaway.

Dave K8MN

In addition to putting AveryFine in front of your messages, you're
going to start putting my name on them?

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Perhaps there should
be a no content indicator in the preamble of your messages.

I usually find your name a giveaway.

Dave K8MN

In addition to putting AveryFine in front of your messages, you're
going to start putting my name on them?

I am not now, nor have I ever posted as Avery Fine or any other name
than my own.

Dave K8MN