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Do Hams get 11 Meters Back
Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there Free
Handout Ham Licenses? |
Not likely. What fee handout licenses? There still are a couple of written
exams (not that they are overly difficult, mind you). 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "WA8ULX" wrote in message ... Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there Free Handout Ham Licenses? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/03 |
Multiple guess.
73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "WA8ULX" wrote in message ... There still are a couple of written exams Is that what there called? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/03 |
"WA8ULX" wrote:
(snip) ...to there Free... (snip) Try "...to their free..." instead. The rest deserves no real response. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
No, CB'ers are getting the Ham Bands.
"WA8ULX" wrote in message ... Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there Free Handout Ham Licenses? |
Try "...to their free..." instead.
No I like" there" better, besides it ****es you Knuckle draggers off. |
No, CB'ers are getting the Ham Bands.
Yes your right, what I meant to say was CBplussers. |
This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the
155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of DXing. I think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO. I once tried to "school" a guy on DXing. He's a little too slow for help. I have even made DX contacts and passed 'em on to him. |
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This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the 155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of DXing. I think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO. We could do that now, *IF* we use type accepted (or whatever they call it nowadays) CB radios instead of our ham transcievers, and not exceed the distance limit. But I think the CBers might see us as invaders on their turf, like we see them when invading 10m. It might be better to be low key, maybe have the ARRL buy ads in CB magizines that say something like "if you get a general or extra ham license, you can DX on many different bands using more power (legally) even when the sunspots are out of season. 'You already love radio, see how much more fun you can have with a ham license'." Of course one would have to wordsmith it right to attract serious and disiplined operators and not the kids and "lids". Without making ham radio look condensending or putting CBers down. I'm not that good a writer, but I think that it could be done well. |
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om... (WA8ULX) wrote in message ... Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there Free Handout Ham Licenses? We didn't "lose" 11M, we just had use CB reddios radios instead of our ham gear to run on 11. w3rv Quite correct. (...and too often overlooked.) -- 73 de Bert WA2SI |
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:01:22 GMT, "Bert Craig"
wrote: I have an understanding of what CB WAS supposed to be for as well as what it HAS evolved into. (...and I don't mean the out-of-band lids with the illegal amplifiers either.) Well, then you must mean the IN-the-band lids with the illegal amplifiers. Not to mention echo mikes, electronic noisemakers, and...well, just listen down there and compile your own list. I personally have no want to bang my fist down on the table and proclaim that "that's not what it was originally meant for." That's what it's become, plain and simple. Don't like it? Then get your fmr. comrades to kick it up a notch or two wrt enforcement and stop it... I wholeheartedly second the motion! or admit their boo-boo (CB on HF and they can't respond to a natuarally occuring phenomenon, hihi.) I think they already have, and I think that's part of the reason why MURS was created, thus putting no-license radio on VHF where it ought to have been put in the first place. and try to take a little advantage of the situation. On the other hand, there's no enforcement on the MURS frequencies either. Around here (Buffalo, NY area) they already sound like the 11m band, complete with illegal power levels and toilet-mouthed jerks, many of whom can also be heard on 11m. Then there's the marine VHF band... 73 DE John, KC2HMZ |
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:01:22 GMT, Bert Craig wrote:
Speak for yourself, Phil. I certainly CAN. I have witnessed the shift in what the "citizens" (Remember that word?) want from *their* Citizen's Band. I want a lot of things from "society" that there's no chance in hell that I will get. Learning to operate by the rules is a large part of radio operating maturity. You want to get into a discussion about who is qualified to determine what CB is all about - the inmates or the keepers? Hope you have your asbestos-lined teflon raincoat handy..... I personally have no want to bang my fist down on the table and proclaim that "that's not what it was originally meant for." That's what it's become, plain and simple. CB was not meant to be hobby radio, despite "what it has become". What it has become is something akin to a free-for-all where each one does what s/he wants..... Don't like it? Then get your fmr. comrades to kick it up a notch or two wrt enforcement and stop it... I've been in favor of that for decades.....we used to have something called Special Enforcement Teams in the early 70s - "SWAT" teams for CB enforcement. When they came to town the grass was mowed real well. They were getting too close to certain Very High VIPs' interests and they were disbanded, allegedly for budgetary reasons. I would just as soon resurrect them. I'd rather not get into the history of the ****ing contest between two now-deceased Bureau Chiefs over enforcement philosophy. or admit their boo-boo (CB on HF and they can't respond to a natuarally occuring phenomenon, hihi.) and try to take a little advantage of the situation. It reallly could've been a win-win situation back in 2000, Phil, but false pride got in the way. As I've always said - wanna' work skip and DX -- get a ham license. Wanna' use local personal or business communication - that's what CB is for. It comes down to wheher one is going to follow the rules or not. Plain and simple. What you are describing is hamming, not proper (some call it "legal") CB operating. Yes, Phil, I think it's a GREAT idea to whet some CBer's appetite with the words "If you like what you can do with 12 Watts on CB, lemme show you what you with just a tad more effort and some studying on 20." Try "If you want to do all those things, the only place to do it is in ham radio." CB is *NOT* the minor leagues or a training ground for ham radio. It's that simple. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
"Robert Casey" wrote in message
... This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the 155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of DXing. I think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO. We could do that now, *IF* we use type accepted (or whatever they call it nowadays) CB radios instead of our ham transcievers, and not exceed the distance limit. 'Zactly! I currently run a slightly older Uniden Grant XL, type certified and 100% legal. But I think the CBers might see us as invaders on their turf, like we see them when invading 10m. It might be better to be low key, I usually keep it subtle and have always had pretty good results. NOTE: Those who bootleg on 10m (Or any other ham band.) are neither included in this discussion nor welcomed on either band. I'll drop a dime on them in a NY minute! (...and have done so in the past.) maybe have the ARRL buy ads in CB magizines that say IMHO, the ARRL blew a golden opportunity for a win-win situation in 2000 when it comment against RM-9807. I don't think the ARRL's is very much appreciated among CB circles, HOWEVER, true CB "hobbyists" (Sorry, Phil.) DO respect ARO's and are usually quite receptive. something like "if you get a general or extra ham license, you can DX on many different bands using more power (legally) even when the sunspots are out of season. 'You already love radio, see how much more fun you can have with a ham license'." Of course one would have to wordsmith it right to attract serious and disiplined operators and not the kids and "lids". Without making ham radio look condensending or putting CBers down. Funny story...well, kinda. I walked into the corner 7-Eleven and prepared to get my dailly fix of Java when a chap nodded in my direction and asked "you a ham?" It occured to me that he had seen my AR license plates and since we were the only two in the store, it was equally easy for me to notice the Wilson 1000 atop his vehicle. I nodded toward his car and asked him "what'cha runnin'?" Well, I could tell right away it wasn't kosher because you could cut the immediate cloud of nerousness with a knife. "Relax, I've been where you are and I can help you get to where you wanna be." Crash, down came the wall of apprehension. He was using one of those zillion channel Ranger rigs. I explained that if he'd let me, I could show him how to use that legally. Subtly massaged the enforcement angle into the conversation too. I lived three blocks away so I permanently lent him my Gordo Tech study guide and a copy of my ARRL code CD's. Told him the code test was nothing to sweat and if he any problems just give me a holler. Well, the next time he "hollered," he had two CSCE's in hand and a new Tech"+" was waiting for a call. Now that he's tasted more bandwidth, he doesn't want to risk losing those priviledges on any illegal 11-meter frequencies anymore. I personally don't care what his motivations are to fly straight are, I'm just glad that he is. Sure, I could've immediately beaten him up re. his rig or lectured him on what CB was originally intended for...but what would it have gained? CB gained a legal op, and he gained a whole new world of radio. For all I know, he might very well be an Extra by now. I do know it felt good. :-) I'm not that good a writer, but I think that it could be done well. I think you just did a great job. -- 73 de Bert WA2SI |
"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
... On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:01:22 GMT, "Bert Craig" wrote: I have an understanding of what CB WAS supposed to be for as well as what it HAS evolved into. (...and I don't mean the out-of-band lids with the illegal amplifiers either.) Well, then you must mean the IN-the-band lids with the illegal amplifiers. Not to mention echo mikes, electronic noisemakers, and...well, just listen down there and compile your own list. You know, Ryan...I've been very very fortunate in that I've rarely encountered the hordes of lids on the CB. I'm usually on ch. 38 LSB or ch. 40 USB and most folks I've had the pleasure of chatting with have been pretty good ops. (By AR standards.) I personally have no want to bang my fist down on the table and proclaim that "that's not what it was originally meant for." That's what it's become, plain and simple. Don't like it? Then get your fmr. comrades to kick it up a notch or two wrt enforcement and stop it... I wholeheartedly second the motion! After all, they do work for us. or admit their boo-boo (CB on HF and they can't respond to a natuarally occuring phenomenon, hihi.) I think they already have Nah, you'll get all kinds of excuses wrt how unwieldy and expensive VHF gear would've been back in 1958. But you know what...the manufacturers would've worked that ou and historically ALWAYS have. That really wasn't the FCC's job, it was, and still is, the job of the manufacturers. , and I think that's part of the reason why MURS was created, thus putting no-license radio on VHF where it ought to have been put in the first place. Partly, yes. and try to take a little advantage of the situation. On the other hand, there's no enforcement on the MURS frequencies either. Around here (Buffalo, NY area) they already sound like the 11m band, complete with illegal power levels and toilet-mouthed jerks, many of whom can also be heard on 11m. Enforcement? Where's the beef?! Oh, it went to pay for that $400 hammer or that $1,200 barracks toilet bowl. Then there's the marine VHF band... Ouch, low blow! ;-) 73 DE John, KC2HMZ -- 73 de Bert WA2SI |
"Robert Casey" wrote in message ... This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the 155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of DXing. I think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO. We could do that now, *IF* we use type accepted (or whatever they call it nowadays) CB radios instead of our ham transcievers, and not exceed the distance limit. But I think the CBers might see us as invaders on their turf, like we see them when invading 10m. It might be better to be low key, maybe have the ARRL buy ads in CB magizines that say something like "if you get a general or extra ham license, you can DX on many different bands using more power (legally) even when the sunspots are out of season. 'You already love radio, see how much more fun you can have with a ham license'." Of course one would have to wordsmith it right to attract serious and disiplined operators and not the kids and "lids". Without making ham radio look condensending or putting CBers down. I'm not that good a writer, but I think that it could be done well. If all you CBers with a ham license want to go back and play in the pig pen. Then go ahead. Don't even think anyone that is a real ham cares what goes on there. Let alone wants to operate there. If you don't like that. Tough...thats the fact jack. Dan/W4NTI |
"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message ... On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:01:22 GMT, "Bert Craig" wrote: I have an understanding of what CB WAS supposed to be for as well as what it HAS evolved into. (...and I don't mean the out-of-band lids with the illegal amplifiers either.) Well, then you must mean the IN-the-band lids with the illegal amplifiers. Not to mention echo mikes, electronic noisemakers, and...well, just listen down there and compile your own list. I personally have no want to bang my fist down on the table and proclaim that "that's not what it was originally meant for." That's what it's become, plain and simple. Don't like it? Then get your fmr. comrades to kick it up a notch or two wrt enforcement and stop it... I wholeheartedly second the motion! or admit their boo-boo (CB on HF and they can't respond to a natuarally occuring phenomenon, hihi.) I think they already have, and I think that's part of the reason why MURS was created, thus putting no-license radio on VHF where it ought to have been put in the first place. and try to take a little advantage of the situation. On the other hand, there's no enforcement on the MURS frequencies either. Around here (Buffalo, NY area) they already sound like the 11m band, complete with illegal power levels and toilet-mouthed jerks, many of whom can also be heard on 11m. Then there's the marine VHF band... 73 DE John, KC2HMZ Just like I figured would happen. And just what some of the no-codes are trying to make ham radio like. Dan/W4NTI |
"Bert Craig" wrote in message ... Nah, you'll get all kinds of excuses wrt how unwieldy and expensive VHF gear would've been back in 1958. But you know what...the manufacturers would've worked that ou and historically ALWAYS have. That really wasn't the FCC's job, it was, and still is, the job of the manufacturers. Your arguement dont hold water Bert. There was a CB band on UHF back then. It was in the 400 mhz range FM and was called Class A. Dan/W4NTI |
"Bert Craig" wrote in message .net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message om... (WA8ULX) wrote in message ... Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there Free Handout Ham Licenses? We didn't "lose" 11M, we just had use CB reddios radios It's "reddios" on 11M and radios on 12M and elsewhere. "When in Rome do as the Romans do." instead of our ham gear to run on 11. w3rv Quite correct. (...and too often overlooked.) w3rv |
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ...
"Bert Craig" wrote in message . net... "Robert Casey" wrote in message ... This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the 155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of DXing. I think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO. We could do that now, *IF* we use type accepted (or whatever they call it nowadays) CB radios instead of our ham transcievers, and not exceed the distance limit. 'Zactly! I currently run a slightly older Uniden Grant XL, type certified and 100% legal. But I think the CBers might see us as invaders on their turf, like we see them when invading 10m. It might be better to be low key, I usually keep it subtle and have always had pretty good results. NOTE: Those who bootleg on 10m (Or any other ham band.) are neither included in this discussion nor welcomed on either band. I'll drop a dime on them in a NY minute! (...and have done so in the past.) maybe have the ARRL buy ads in CB magizines that say IMHO, the ARRL blew a golden opportunity for a win-win situation in 2000 when it comment against RM-9807. I don't think the ARRL's is very much appreciated among CB circles, HOWEVER, true CB "hobbyists" (Sorry, Phil.) DO respect ARO's and are usually quite receptive. something like "if you get a general or extra ham license, you can DX on many different bands using more power (legally) even when the sunspots are out of season. 'You already love radio, see how much more fun you can have with a ham license'." Of course one would have to wordsmith it right to attract serious and disiplined operators and not the kids and "lids". Without making ham radio look condensending or putting CBers down. Funny story...well, kinda. I walked into the corner 7-Eleven and prepared to get my dailly fix of Java when a chap nodded in my direction and asked "you a ham?" It occured to me that he had seen my AR license plates and since we were the only two in the store, it was equally easy for me to notice the Wilson 1000 atop his vehicle. I nodded toward his car and asked him "what'cha runnin'?" Well, I could tell right away it wasn't kosher because you could cut the immediate cloud of nerousness with a knife. "Relax, I've been where you are and I can help you get to where you wanna be." Crash, down came the wall of apprehension. He was using one of those zillion channel Ranger rigs. I explained that if he'd let me, I could show him how to use that legally. Subtly massaged the enforcement angle into the conversation too. I lived three blocks away so I permanently lent him my Gordo Tech study guide and a copy of my ARRL code CD's. Told him the code test was nothing to sweat and if he any problems just give me a holler. Well, the next time he "hollered," he had two CSCE's in hand and a new Tech"+" was waiting for a call. Now that he's tasted more bandwidth, he doesn't want to risk losing those priviledges on any illegal 11-meter frequencies anymore. I personally don't care what his motivations are to fly straight are, I'm just glad that he is. Sure, I could've immediately beaten him up re. his rig or lectured him on what CB was originally intended for...but what would it have gained? CB gained a legal op, and he gained a whole new world of radio. For all I know, he might very well be an Extra by now. I do know it felt good. :-) I'm not that good a writer, but I think that it could be done well. I think you just did a great job. -- 73 de Bert WA2SI I used to do the same thing with the customers I had in my CB shop a few years back. Got a LOT of converts that way. Kewl beans, it doesn't always work but when it does...it sure feels good. But it was tough sometimes when they came in and asked me why the Swerrrrrrs were so high on their whup, when it was mounted with straps to the metal cab of the truck. That wasn't the tough part for me. It's the ones with the really bad attitudes who wear me out. At a certain point, you end up deciding who is worth the effort and who to ditch. Dan/W4NTI 73 de Bert WA2SI |
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ...
"Robert Casey" wrote in message ... This is actually not such a bad idea. I've always supported dropping the 155.3 mi. limit on CB and the idea of allowing hams to reduce their power and elmer CBers on channels 36 through 40 USB on the finer point of DXing. I think it'd be a great recruitment tool, just MHO. We could do that now, *IF* we use type accepted (or whatever they call it nowadays) CB radios instead of our ham transcievers, and not exceed the distance limit. But I think the CBers might see us as invaders on their turf, like we see them when invading 10m. It might be better to be low key, maybe have the ARRL buy ads in CB magizines that say something like "if you get a general or extra ham license, you can DX on many different bands using more power (legally) even when the sunspots are out of season. 'You already love radio, see how much more fun you can have with a ham license'." Of course one would have to wordsmith it right to attract serious and disiplined operators and not the kids and "lids". Without making ham radio look condensending or putting CBers down. I'm not that good a writer, but I think that it could be done well. If all you CBers with a ham license want to go back and play in the pig pen. Then go ahead. No thanks, Dan. I avoid the pig pen, but I still do occasionally chit chat on CB ch. 38 LSB and 40 USB...and no swine present. As a matter of fact, I worked a guy on ch. 38 LSB earlier this evening who ended up asking me to QSY to 28.440 MHz. I happily complied. ;-) Don't even think anyone that is a real ham cares what goes on there. Very much false. Let alone wants to operate there. See above. If you don't like that. Tough...thats the fact jack. Doesn't bother me one iota as it's very far from factual. Dan/W4NTI 73 de Bert WA2SI |
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ...
"Bert Craig" wrote in message ... Nah, you'll get all kinds of excuses wrt how unwieldy and expensive VHF gear would've been back in 1958. But you know what...the manufacturers would've worked that ou and historically ALWAYS have. That really wasn't the FCC's job, it was, and still is, the job of the manufacturers. Your arguement dont doesn't hold water Bert. There was a CB band on UHF back then. It was in the 400 mhz range FM and was called Class A. Dan/W4NTI I remember it, Dan. Now dig a little further and research when that band came into being and why it was subsequently reassigned. Then tell me a little more about "my arguement." ;-) 73 de Bert WA2SI |
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
m... "Bert Craig" wrote in message .net... "Brian Kelly" wrote in message om... (WA8ULX) wrote in message ... Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there Free Handout Ham Licenses? We didn't "lose" 11M, we just had use CB reddios radios It's "reddios" on 11M and radios on 12M and elsewhere. "When in Rome do as the Romans do." Sorry, Brian. Within the circles that I operate, It's "radios." (On both 11m and the ham bands. YMMV.) FYI, folks here are QSX when they're monitoring the frequency. I rarely hear the annoying "I'm QRT and on the side" anymore, thank goodness. :-) w3rv -- 73 de Bert WA2SI |
Kim W5TIT wrote: Anyone who would forsake any communication venue just doesn't have a clue for the value of that venue... Kim W5TIT Does that include CW? |
I feel the same way about CB, Bert. There are ways to avoid the trash, and
that is on USB or LSB. Anyone who would forsake any communication venue just doesn't have a clue for the value of that venue... You would be outnumbered here by the number of dual-operators. I hear CB'ers on ham and hams on CB every day of the week. And that's just on sideband. I don't do AM anymore. Haven't for over 5 years. Last night's net got overrun by noise, and we all went to the repeater. |
On 5 Aug 2003 21:09:24 -0700, Bert Craig wrote:
Your arguement dont doesn't hold water Bert. There was a CB band on UHF back then. It was in the 400 mhz range FM and was called Class A. I remember it, Dan. Now dig a little further and research when that band came into being and why it was subsequently reassigned. Then tell me a little more about "my arguement." ;-) It still exists - it's called GMRS. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:40:13 GMT, Bert Craig wrote:
Enforcement? Where's the beef?! Oh, it went to pay for that $400 hammer or that $1,200 barracks toilet bowl. Well, it's time to drag out Project Accounting 101 again. As I posted elsewhere (with apologies to the CPAs and EAs if I used incorrect terminology as to the accountimne methods in the example): The scoffers fail to remember (or understand) that the "$500 hammer" came about by allocation of contract overhead by line item rather than by proportional item cost.... Follow the bouncing ball for a machine and a hammer needed to maintain it: Machine catalog cost = $ 10,000.00 Hammer catalog cost = $ 10.00 Total cost of material = $ 10,010.00 10% Contract overhead = $ 1,001.00 Total contract cost = $ 11,011.00 By Proportional Item Cost allocation method, overhead is allocated proportionally: Machine cost = $ 10,000 + 10% = $ 11.000 Hammer cost = $ 10 + 10% = 11 Total cost = $ 11,011 By Line Item allocation method, the total overhead is divided by the number of line items, in this case 2: Machine cost = $ 10,000 + $ 500.50 = $ 10,500.50 Hammer cost = $ 10 + $ 500.50 = $ 510.50 Total cost = $ 11,011.00 Note the "$ 500 hammer" in the example above !! Same hammer, same contract cost, no extra charge for the asinine comments by The Congress and The Press and The Critics. As to where the enforcement money went, the nickle-nursers in The Congress never appropriated it, and even if they would have, the past three agency chairmen - the folks who have the power to allot the funds inside the agency - had neither regard for nor understanding of the need for field enforcement. And that takes care of that....... -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
"Bert Craig" wrote in message m... "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ... "Bert Craig" wrote in message ... Nah, you'll get all kinds of excuses wrt how unwieldy and expensive VHF gear would've been back in 1958. But you know what...the manufacturers would've worked that ou and historically ALWAYS have. That really wasn't the FCC's job, it was, and still is, the job of the manufacturers. Your arguement dont doesn't hold water Bert. There was a CB band on UHF back then. It was in the 400 mhz range FM and was called Class A. Dan/W4NTI I remember it, Dan. Now dig a little further and research when that band came into being and why it was subsequently reassigned. Then tell me a little more about "my arguement." ;-) 73 de Bert WA2SI As I remember, and Im not going to bother 'researching'. Class A CB was available when Class D CB was initiated. That was the late 50s. Dan/W4NTI |
"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ... "Bert Craig" wrote in message om... "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ... If all you CBers with a ham license want to go back and play in the pig pen. Then go ahead. No thanks, Dan. I avoid the pig pen, but I still do occasionally chit chat on CB ch. 38 LSB and 40 USB...and no swine present. As a matter of fact, I worked a guy on ch. 38 LSB earlier this evening who ended up asking me to QSY to 28.440 MHz. I happily complied. ;-) Don't even think anyone that is a real ham cares what goes on there. Very much false. Let alone wants to operate there. See above. If you don't like that. Tough...thats the fact jack. Doesn't bother me one iota as it's very far from factual. Dan/W4NTI 73 de Bert WA2SI I feel the same way about CB, Bert. There are ways to avoid the trash, and that is on USB or LSB. Anyone who would forsake any communication venue just doesn't have a clue for the value of that venue... Kim W5TIT There is no value to CB. Whenever something good is tried the idiots trash it. Jam it, play music and tones all over it. When I heard that while working on a CB radio, I just turned the RF gain down and went on. Unfortunatly now I hear the exact same tactics on ham radio. Gee I wonder where that came from ??? Dan/W4NTI |
Whenever something good is tried the idiots trash
it. Jam it, play music and tones all over it. Expect that to be the Norm before long on Ham Radio. Cant wait till they all start crying for the FCC to do something |
Thanks for some useful info, Phil. Amazing what one can do with proper
accounting tools. I know a gentleman in the construction business. Some years ago whilst he was preparing a bid, one of his men pointed out an error in the proposal as written. The particular government in question was widening a road and had failed to account for the left turn lane traffic loops and appropriate lights. My friend therefore bid most of the job normally, but bit the poles AT COST while pumping up the price of the traffic control loops. There were a number of intersections and my friend got the winning bid (lowest bid). Ooops, they discovered the error later and since the lowest bidder was already awarded the contract, the extra loops were added at the price for the loops specified in the bid (how many hundred percent he padded on those numbers, I don't know. But he did make a nice profit margin on that contract). :)) He was happy enough to give the guy who pointed out the error $5,000.00. 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA " --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/03 |
"Kim W5TIT" wrote .
Anyone who would forsake any communication venue just doesn't have a clue for the value of that venue... Kim W5TIT Does this mean the fact that you forsake the Morse code communications venue indicates that you "just don't have a clue for the value of that venue"? (Your words, not mine.) Sunuvagun! With all kind wishes, de Hans, K0HB -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
Bert,
I don't mean to just break in on your argument with Phil, but consider what we are going through in Rochester, NY. Taxes are sky high, we lost over 800,000 people in New York since the mid 90s (jobs disappearing, wages going down, taxes going up). Obviously, the local governments are trying to cut budgets. Police and firemen are not being replaced as they retire or quit. Enforcement is spotty at best. We just had a large block burn down in the city due to arson a few months ago. People were doing oil changes in the streets (if not stripping cars) and oil was left in the streets. Laws were passed, but weren't favored by a lot of folks. Loud booming radios were causing problems. Laws were passed, but ignored. Those folks that you think believe in the American Way started pushing the envelope. There is now a severe drug problem (heck, if I'm not hurting anyone, it isn't any of your business). We now have the second highest murder rate in New York outside of New York City! The problem is that there is little enforcement, and some folks get emboldened. Locally, they have a new tact. There are now City of Rochester Police, Monroe County Sheriffs, and New York State Troopers patrolling Rochester. Go ahead, spit your gum out. If you're seen, you will get a ticket. Any violation, no matter how minor, and you will get stopped. You may not be searched, but pray you don't have anything visible in your car that you shouldn't (like a little bag with some white powder in it). They are starting real enforcement and there will be a lot of minor violators that will end up paying some stiff fines. I don't see any other way around the situation here; I also don't see things getting any better in the radio business without some *serious* enforcement. That would include the skip-shooting - at least until things quiet down to a dull roar. The lack of enforcement (regardless of cause, which is invariably lack of funds) is not only allowing things to get worse, it is actively promoting things to get worse. Just my two cents' worth! 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 8/4/03 |
"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
... "Bert Craig" wrote in message om... "Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ... If all you CBers with a ham license want to go back and play in the pig pen. Then go ahead. No thanks, Dan. I avoid the pig pen, but I still do occasionally chit chat on CB ch. 38 LSB and 40 USB...and no swine present. As a matter of fact, I worked a guy on ch. 38 LSB earlier this evening who ended up asking me to QSY to 28.440 MHz. I happily complied. ;-) Don't even think anyone that is a real ham cares what goes on there. Very much false. Let alone wants to operate there. See above. If you don't like that. Tough...thats the fact jack. Doesn't bother me one iota as it's very far from factual. Dan/W4NTI 73 de Bert WA2SI I feel the same way about CB, Bert. There are ways to avoid the trash, and that is on USB or LSB. I think the combination of some selective operating practice along with some good old fashioned fool's luck has been responsible for my good fortune on the 11-meter CB. I run into an occasional overmodulated overpowered jerk whose signal splashes across the band, but they've been few and far between. My answer? Additional IF filtering and more recently, the addition of a SGC ADSP2 DSP board. The results of which are dramatic. I like to preach receiver mods to those who simply cannot leave their rig stock. If they express a want (NOT need.) for more power, I suggest a speech processor. (Forget the amp!) There are some nice ones on the market from Astatic, CBCI, as well as the SP-1a. Anyone who would forsake any communication venue just doesn't have a clue for the value of that venue... Actually, Kim, I betcha they do...but's it's easier to "follow" the herd. Kim W5TIT -- 73 de Bert WA2SI |
Brian Kelly wrote: Every once in a blue moon when I've had absolutely nothing better to do with my life I've gotten on 27Mhz and looked for intelligent life. On the rare occasions when I've actually found some it lasts maybe five minutes at most before the bozos blow it off the freq. YMMV . . ! w3rv So as to the subject "Do Hams get 11 Meters Back", I ask, "why in the world would hams want 11 meters back?" Eleven meters is the perfect example of what happens when rules are thrown out the window, total chaos. The cber's have managed to make it the sewer pit of the radio spectrum and the sad part is they can't even keep it in their own territory, they have to spew their garbage to other frequencies as well. The fact that hams in general follow the rules, and expect other operators to do the same is what keeps many cber's from getting a license. I say, "good riddance, we don't need those types in ham radio." |
"Phil Kane" wrote in message
.net... On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:40:13 GMT, Bert Craig wrote: Enforcement? Where's the beef?! Oh, it went to pay for that $400 hammer or that $1,200 barracks toilet bowl. Well, it's time to drag out Project Accounting 101 again. As I posted elsewhere (with apologies to the CPAs and EAs if I used incorrect terminology as to the accountimne methods in the example): The scoffers fail to remember (or understand) that the "$500 hammer" came about by allocation of contract overhead by line item rather than by proportional item cost.... Follow the bouncing ball for a machine and a hammer needed to maintain it: Machine catalog cost = $ 10,000.00 Hammer catalog cost = $ 10.00 Total cost of material = $ 10,010.00 10% Contract overhead = $ 1,001.00 Total contract cost = $ 11,011.00 By Proportional Item Cost allocation method, overhead is allocated proportionally: Machine cost = $ 10,000 + 10% = $ 11.000 Hammer cost = $ 10 + 10% = 11 Total cost = $ 11,011 By Line Item allocation method, the total overhead is divided by the number of line items, in this case 2: Machine cost = $ 10,000 + $ 500.50 = $ 10,500.50 Hammer cost = $ 10 + $ 500.50 = $ 510.50 Total cost = $ 11,011.00 Note the "$ 500 hammer" in the example above !! Same hammer, same contract cost, no extra charge for the asinine comments by The Congress and The Press and The Critics. Fair enough, Project Accounting 101 lesson appreciated. As to where the enforcement money went, the nickle-nursers in The Congress never appropriated it, and even if they would have, the past three agency chairmen - the folks who have the power to allot the funds inside the agency - had neither regard for nor understanding of the need for field enforcement. Damn shame. And that takes care of that....... Thanks again. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane -- 73 de Bert WA2SI |
"Bert Craig" wrote in message v.net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message m... "Bert Craig" wrote in message .net... "Brian Kelly" wrote in message om... (WA8ULX) wrote in message ... Do Hams get 11 Meters Back, as soon as all the CBers upgrade to there Free Handout Ham Licenses? We didn't "lose" 11M, we just had use CB reddios radios It's "reddios" on 11M and radios on 12M and elsewhere. "When in Rome do as the Romans do." Sorry, Brian. Within the circles that I operate, It's "radios." (On both 11m and the ham bands. YMMV.) It sure does!! FYI, folks here are QSX when they're monitoring the frequency. I rarely hear the annoying "I'm QRT and on the side" anymore, thank goodness. :-) I was involved in trying to use CB for it's original intended purpose in the mid-'70s in 23 channel days. Specifically for comms for a municipal Townwatch group of 135 citizens 95% of whom had no interest at all in hobby radio and just wanted reasonably decent local neighborhood mobile comms. The disgusted group would have fallen apart if I hadn't moved the operation up onto a VHF business freq to get away from the CB crud. Cost a bundle but they're still on that freq. Every once in a blue moon when I've had absolutely nothing better to do with my life I've gotten on 27Mhz and looked for intelligent life. On the rare occasions when I've actually found some it lasts maybe five minutes at most before the bozos blow it off the freq. YMMV . . ! w3rv |
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
... There is no value to CB. Whenever something good is tried the idiots trash it. Jam it, play music and tones all over it. Dan, trust me...NOBODY understands how you feel better than I. I just plain old REFUSE to let the lids win and keep the band for themselves. I and a local (relatively speaking) group of ragchewers (mostly hams) still chew the fat on 40 USB every now and then. If our operating practices rub off on a newbie CBer or two, great. When I heard that while working on a CB radio, I just turned the RF gain down and went on. I just QSY and operate using SSB exclusively/ Unfortunatly now I hear the exact same tactics on ham radio. Gee I wonder where that came from ??? That is unfortunate, but I attribute it to the lids themselves...not the band they came from or the band they're on. Dan/W4NTI -- 73 de Bert WA2SI |
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
... Bert, I don't mean to just break in on your argument with Phil, but consider what we are going through in Rochester, NY. Taxes are sky high, we lost over 800,000 people in New York since the mid 90s (jobs disappearing, wages going down, taxes going up). Obviously, the local governments are trying to cut budgets. Police and firemen are not being replaced as they retire or quit. Enforcement is spotty at best. We just had a large block burn down in the city due to arson a few months ago. People were doing oil changes in the streets (if not stripping cars) and oil was left in the streets. Laws were passed, but weren't favored by a lot of folks. Loud booming radios were causing problems. Laws were passed, but ignored. Those folks that you think believe in the American Way started pushing the envelope. There is now a severe drug problem (heck, if I'm not hurting anyone, it isn't any of your business). We now have the second highest murder rate in New York outside of New York City! The problem is that there is little enforcement, and some folks get emboldened. Locally, they have a new tact. There are now City of Rochester Police, Monroe County Sheriffs, and New York State Troopers patrolling Rochester. Go ahead, spit your gum out. If you're seen, you will get a ticket. Any violation, no matter how minor, and you will get stopped. You may not be searched, but pray you don't have anything visible in your car that you shouldn't (like a little bag with some white powder in it). They are starting real enforcement and there will be a lot of minor violators that will end up paying some stiff fines. I don't see any other way around the situation here; I also don't see things getting any better in the radio business without some *serious* enforcement. That would include the skip-shooting - at least until things quiet down to a dull roar. The lack of enforcement (regardless of cause, which is invariably lack of funds) is not only allowing things to get worse, it is actively promoting things to get worse. Just my two cents' worth! 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA I certainly understand 100% wrt the situation you've described above, Jim. While I certainly don't equate working DX on the CB with some of the violations you mentioned above, I neither do it (DX on the CB.) nor encourage anyone else to do it. HOWEVER, I do support changing the rule via the legal and proper protocol. End of story. I acknowledge that many folks do it now and the FCC does absolutely nothing, but I certainly do NOT encourage it or endorse it. If it is ever legalized, I'd tell folks to go for it...but certainly not now. I realize my position on this subject is not popular among my fellow hams, but it's what I believe. Thus far NOBODY has really provide a satisfactory arguement against it. Most attempt to drag other unrelated subjects such as freebanding and amplifiers into the fray. "Working DX will encourage the use of illegal amplifiers," they say...conveniently forgetting that QRP demonstrates otherwise with even less power output. (5 vs. 12 Watts) I'm not going to change my beliefs just to avoid being flamed on a USENET newsgroup. Just as I wouldn't on rec.radio.cb when I told 'em to get of their asses and study for and pass Element 1 rather than play that pathetic waiting game. BTW, Phil and I have no argument...just a difference of opinion. I respect Phil's opinion just as I hope he would respect mine. I did not start this thread, I merely responded to the original post and it snowballed into this. I basically argue with nobody. Take care, Jim. -- 73 de Bert WA2SI |
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