Brian Kelly wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message . com...

"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
. com...



. . . I think I lost some of my ability to get it down solid on paper at
speed and I'm working on that.

However I do not agree with a hypothesis that simply cramming for then
passing a 13 or even a 20wpm code test assures a lifetime ability to
copy Morse at any usable speed. I've seen too many examples of "cram &
pass" types who never actually used the stuff on the air to any extent
all but completely forget how to copy Morse. Apparently there is some
combination of both a speed and a number of hours of experience at
that speed which embeds Morse for life.



Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

w3rv

It appears to me that the reason 13wpm and higher works, according to the
reference, is that you CAN'T successfully cram to pass the higher speeds.
You've got to have those neural connections solidly in place. However for
10wpm and down you can cram and pass the tests.


I'm not particularly convinced that's the case but there isn't even
any soft evidence which indicates that is or is not the case.


Regardless, there is definitely a point at which a person won't forget even
if they believe they have done so (your experience being a case in point).


Agreed. In spades.


To me, this is the level that Extras should reach, i.e. a level that they
won't forget.


We agree 200% on THAT point!


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


w3rv


There's another point to this that I haven't seen anything on yet. It
seems to me that the faster you can copy the easier it gets (to a point,
of course). 13 wpm is a definite PITA to copy, considering they
generally use 10 WPM weight and try to run it together to get the faster
13 wpm. I usually have trouble copying anything slower than 15 wpm, and
I don't like 15, either. Too slow.

Back around 1989 some friends of mine and I were conducting code
practice sessions on one of the local repeaters. We had one young man
who was going for his Advanced (he had passed all the written tests,
including Extra at 12 years old...smart young man!) and tried for the 13
wpm test numerous times, failing every one. My friends and I were
perplexed, since he regularly copied 20 and 25 wpm in our practice
sessions (we threw those speeds in without telling anyone once in a while).

One night before one of his tests, you could tell he was really
discouraged and ready to give up, so I pulled him aside to another
repeater and told him of a technique that a friend of mine told to me. I
told him that, when the test came up, he should take the first test,
which of course was the 20 wpm Extra test. I told him he should not
expect to pass it, but to do his best to copy it and, when the 13 wpm
came up next, it would sound slower and he should pass it with ease. Of
course, he passed the 20 wpm with a perfect copy. He was on the
repeater the following night gloating and bragging. ;-)

Back in the '90s I was driving an 18 wheeler over the road (no, I had my
license WELL before I ever drove trucks). I liked to operate cw while
driving and naturally had to be able to copy code in my head. 20 wpm
and above, the code ceased being letters and formed words. At that time
I was up to around 35-40 wpm, all copied and remembered in my head.

13 wpm has always been a PITA for me to copy, and I think for the reason
I stated above. Everyone talked about the "13 wpm barrier" and it sure
was. I think 15 wpm would have been a much better speed, and easier to
attain, besides. But, as some have said, that's a moot point now. I'm
glad I don't have to take the 5 wpm test. Someone would have to keep
waking me up for the next letter.


--
73 from Glenn - KG5UC

"Glenn" wrote in message

Someone would have to keep
waking me up for the next letter.


--
73 from Glenn - KG5UC


Of course you realize that what you just said here will PO the unwashed and
unaware don't ya Glenn?

You will be accused of bragging and being 'superior'.

When those of us that actually can copy QRQ Morse understand you totally.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
nk.net...

"Glenn" wrote in message

Someone would have to keep
waking me up for the next letter.


--
73 from Glenn - KG5UC


Of course you realize that what you just said here will PO the unwashed
and
unaware don't ya Glenn?

You will be accused of bragging and being 'superior'.

When those of us that actually can copy QRQ Morse understand you totally.

Dan/W4NTI


Although I passed my 20wpm, I can't do more than 15wpm on a sustained basis.
Yet 5wpm will even put me to sleep.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:19:54 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


Yet 5wpm will even put me to sleep.

Me too. I can copy 45-50 WPM in my head, but I can't write it down
fast enough for a full complete one minute of copy.

Stacey/AA7YA

On 18 Oct 2003 00:05:26 GMT, Dick Carroll
wrote:


That's where listening at considerably faster than you can
copy comes in. You'd be surprised how fast your abilities
improve. W1AW code practice sessions are good.

Yep. Listening to W1AW, if you can copy 7½ WPM or even 10 WPM, 5 WPM
comes easy.

When I tested for my 20 WPM back in 1993, I had code tapes that were
sending 22 WPM code, coupled with actual on-air QSO's and listening to
W1AW, the 20 WPM code test was a breeze.

Stacey/AA7YA

S. Hanrahan wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:19:54 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:



Yet 5wpm will even put me to sleep.


Me too. I can copy 45-50 WPM in my head, but I can't write it down
fast enough for a full complete one minute of copy.

I keep getting these images of you two listening to a ARRL Morse code CD
to fall asleep to, instead of the music most people would use! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
S. Hanrahan wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:19:54 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:
Yet 5wpm will even put me to sleep.

Me too. I can copy 45-50 WPM in my head, but I can't write it down
fast enough for a full complete one minute of copy.

I keep getting these images of you two listening to a ARRL Morse code CD
to fall asleep to, instead of the music most people would use! 8^)


Ahhhhhh! But Mike! To SOME of us it IS music to the ear!

=)

How's your fall looking? It's absolutely spectacular here this year!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

S. Hanrahan wrote:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:19:54 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

Yet 5wpm will even put me to sleep.

Me too. I can copy 45-50 WPM in my head, but I can't write it down
fast enough for a full complete one minute of copy.

I keep getting these images of you two listening to a ARRL Morse code CD
to fall asleep to, instead of the music most people would use! 8^)



Ahhhhhh! But Mike! To SOME of us it IS music to the ear!

You know, I'm starting to get frustrated again. I can do nearly 20 wpm
listening to NuMorse with headphones and in a quiet room. But the leaast
bit of background noise, or the conditions on the air, and my speed
drops like a rock. I hope I'm not running up against my personal
limitations.





How's your fall looking? It's absolutely spectacular here this year!


It started out looking like it was going to be pretty blah, with rain
and not much color. But then it did an about face, and got warm and
beautiful. The leaves decided not to listen to the newspaper"leaf color
experts" - whoever they are.


- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message
...

S. Hanrahan wrote:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:19:54 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

Yet 5wpm will even put me to sleep.

Me too. I can copy 45-50 WPM in my head, but I can't write it down
fast enough for a full complete one minute of copy.

I keep getting these images of you two listening to a ARRL Morse code CD
to fall asleep to, instead of the music most people would use! 8^)



Ahhhhhh! But Mike! To SOME of us it IS music to the ear!

You know, I'm starting to get frustrated again. I can do nearly 20 wpm
listening to NuMorse with headphones and in a quiet room. But the leaast
bit of background noise, or the conditions on the air, and my speed
drops like a rock. I hope I'm not running up against my personal
limitations.





How's your fall looking? It's absolutely spectacular here this
year!


It started out looking like it was going to be pretty blah, with rain
and not much color. But then it did an about face, and got warm and
beautiful. The leaves decided not to listen to the newspaper"leaf color
experts" - whoever they are.


- Mike KB3EIA -


Now that you KNOW you can actually copy International Morse Code. Throw
out the canned stuff. Fire up the HF rig and use it.

You must teach your brain to 'isolate' and hear ONLY what you are trying to
hear. It takes practice, but it certainly can be done.

Use the most narrow filter at first. Then widden it out. Picking up more
and more interference, and try to pick out the characters.

Its fun.

Dan/W4NTI

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
S. Hanrahan wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:19:54 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:



Yet 5wpm will even put me to sleep.


Me too. I can copy 45-50 WPM in my head, but I can't write it down
fast enough for a full complete one minute of copy.

I keep getting these images of you two listening to a ARRL Morse code CD
to fall asleep to, instead of the music most people would use! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -


My OM would practice Morse on the computer at night working to relearn Morse
after I went to bed at night and sure enough, I drifted off to sleep to the
sounds of the code!

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE