Could This Be The Solution?
 

The following isn't exactly a new idea, but some may not have seen it
yet...

Maybe the way out of the mess is for a Smith Chart test to replace
the code test.

Understanding the Smith Chart and being able to use one actually
demonstrates several areas of knowledge and skill. Smith Chart tests
could consist of interpreting a solved problem on one chart, (the
"understanding" test) then solving a different problem on a blank
chart (the "solution" test). At first, most hams and wouldbe hams
would would simply study the Smith Chart and pass the tests.


But then the trouble would start...

Some hams who had not passed the Smith Chart test might say that those
who had passed the test were being "elitist" about their Smith chart
skill and knowledge. The term "chartless Extra" would be considered
an insult by some, a badge of honor by others.

Some would grumble that since they have no desire to design
antenna/transmission line systems, they should not be required
to pass a Smith Chart test. They would point out that other services
do not have Smith chart testing, and so neither should hams.

Defenders of the tests ("Smithys" or "chartists") would claim that the
Smith chart was a "uniquely practical, efficient, and universal" tool
for antenna/transmission line work. They would claim to have been
"smartened up" by the Chart test requirement. Stories would be
recalled about how lives had been saved by hams able to quickly design
matching sections to permit using an antenna on a frequency it was not
designed for, and would predict dire consequences in the event of
widespread disaster.

Those opposed to the test ("Smithless" or "nochartists") would argue
that newer, more accurate, less error prone software systems had left
the
Smith chart in the dust. "We don't want to use OLD design methods" and
"The
Chart is too slow and error prone" would be their rallying cries.
Other would
ask "do you have to show slide-rule proficiency before using a
calculator?"

There would be testimonials by hams who had worked 300 DXCC countries
using QRP and a dipole without any reference to a Smith Chart, and
claims of others who "had rote-memorized the Chart and promptly forgot
it all as soon as the test was over". Some would tell stories of new
Extras who held Chart-burying ceremonies at the base of their antenna
systems (designed without Smith Charts, of course).

Many would claim that young people, used to solving even minor
addition problems on computers, had no interest in learning
old-fashioned
"buggy whip" graphical methods. Some would say that the emphasis on
such a timeworn, old fashioned, crude graphical method of solving
problems made ham radio look backward and nonprogressive, and was
downright embarrassing. Ph.D's in EE would claim that they had
designed entire radio communication systems without use of the Smith
Chart, yet were kept out of ham radio because of the test.

The arguments would become more heated and insulting over time.
Nochartists would point out that the Chart test was discriminatory.
For
example, blind people could not fulfill the letter of the law in
passing
the test. Some would claim to be "chart impaired" and unable to pass
the
test due to inability to do geometry. The question of "chart waivers"
would
be raised, and much angry invective spewed over "chart fraud" and
"open
chart pools". There would be a demand that the use of graphical
calculators be allowed in the tests.

Chartists would claim that accomodations such as Braille Smith charts
met the intent of the law. Old timers ("quillpenners") would recall a
time
when all charting was done by hand, in ink, on chart paper costing the
modern
equivalent of several dollars a sheet. (They used ink because they
were so
confident of doing it right the first time).

The use, or nonuse, of the Chart by military and commercial services
would be hotly debated. Some nochartists would claim that the military
stopped using the Chart during WW2, while some chartists would claim
that
the Smith chart plays a crucial role in the modern military.

A popular summer blockbuster movie starring Jodie Foster, Will Smith,
Jeff Goldblum and Bill Paxton would have a plot in which alien
invaders
were detected, then repelled by means of a hastily reactivated surplus
Russian over-the-horizon "woodpecker" radar system. The critical plot
element
would be the heroine's use of the Smith Chart to match the
"woodpecker"
transmitter to the Arecibo dish. (How the Russian radar wound up in
Puerto Rico would be left unexplained).

The ARRL, Gordon West, and W5YI would be caught in the middle of the
debate. From the first, they and others would have marketed a whole
line
of Smith chart training aids, including books, videotapes, and
software.
W1AW would transmit SSTV programs explaining chart use, and MFJ would
market "portable personal chart trainers". Claims of monetary interest
in the production of Chart materials would be made and denied. Poorly
worded surveys would show a variety of opinions on the issue, but no
consensus.

Nochartists would claim that the chartists were just "old f***s" who
were supporting the status quo due to "chart chauvinism", and did not
understand the realities of the modern age. A few chartists would
claim
that the nochartists were just "whiners who were too lazy to even
learn
how to hold a compass correctly". The need for "high speed chart
tests"
would be debated hotly, many claiming that no time limit should be
placed
on the chart test. "One Chart per week satisfies the law" would be
their
claim, while skilled chartists would speak of doing 30, 40, even 50
charts per hour, and being able to "see the solution without even
making
a mark on the chart".

Eventually the nochartists would organize a group to fight the chart
test.

The founders of No Charts International would claim that they had no
problem with anyone USING the Chart, just the mandatory test
requirement.
"It's not the CHART, it's the TEST" would be a common rallying cry.


73 de Jim, N2EY

Heck, Jim,

I know a couple of nurses. All I need do is bribe them to make some copies
of some ekg charts from folks named "Smith". I'm covered. :)

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

N2EY wrote:
The following isn't exactly a new idea, but some may not have seen it
yet...

Maybe the way out of the mess is for a Smith Chart test to replace
the code test.

Understanding the Smith Chart and being able to use one actually
demonstrates several areas of knowledge and skill. Smith Chart tests
could consist of interpreting a solved problem on one chart, (the
"understanding" test) then solving a different problem on a blank
chart (the "solution" test). At first, most hams and wouldbe hams
would would simply study the Smith Chart and pass the tests.


But then the trouble would start...


Bravo! Funny and relevant.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...

The founders of No Charts International would claim that they had no
problem with anyone USING the Chart, just the mandatory test
requirement.
"It's not the CHART, it's the TEST" would be a common rallying cry.


73 de Jim, N2EY


OHMYGAWD!!!! ROFLMAO!!!

Kim W5TIT

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
(N2EY) wrote in message
. com...
The following isn't exactly a new idea, but some may not have seen it
yet...

Maybe the way out of the mess is for a Smith Chart test to replace
the code test.
So you still want the Amateur Radio Service to be the exclusive domain
of the Electrical Engineer's?

I don't think that's what the FCC wants, but since the NCVEC can do
any damned thing they want, go ahead and put it to them.


I am not an EE or, for that matter, an any-type-E. Majored in History, in
fact, with a useful minor in Comparative Religion. Work experience consisted
on sitting in an office, drinking bad coffee, attending boring meetings and
writing REALLY useful memos (I was high enough in the organization so that I
didn't have to read any memos). With that as background ...

I do no think I am brilliant, but I have not found Smith Charts all that
difficult. When I learned about them, I found them interesting and
potentially useful. Perhaps, just perhaps, the NCVEC thinks selecting for
people who find such things a Smith Charts interesting is a reasonable
filter for entrance to ham radio. If this be true, perhaps, just perhaps,
that's a reasonable filter?


Paul AB0SI

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
The following isn't exactly a new idea, but some may not have seen it
yet...

Maybe the way out of the mess is for a Smith Chart test to replace
the code test.

So you still want the Amateur Radio Service to be the exclusive domain
of the Electrical Engineer's?

Nope. One does not have to be an EE in order to understand, and use, the Smith
Chart. Many hams who are not EEs have Smithc Chart knowledge and skill. Many
EEs do not.

btw, the plural of "Electrical Engineer" is "Electrical Engineers" not
"Electrical Engineer's". "Electrical Engineer's" is the possessive

I don't think that's what the FCC wants, but since the NCVEC can do
any damned thing they want, go ahead and put it to them.

NCVEC could not create a separate Smith Chart test without FCC approval. And
they could not deviate from multiple-choice format.

It's obvious that irony is not one of your strong points, Brian.

N2EY wrote:

today we lost a truly excitable boy - Warren Zevon. RIP.

Darn! 8^( I've heard his last album is pretty good.



- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

today we lost a truly excitable boy - Warren Zevon. RIP.

Darn! 8^( I've heard his last album is pretty good.

There all pretty good. Ya gotta respect a guy who, diagnosed with terminal lung
cancer and given 2 months to live, keeps going for over a year and releases
such tracks as a cover of Dylan's "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" and "I'll Sleep
When I'm Dead".

But my favorite is "Excitable Boy", which, besides the title track, includes
such classics as:

Werewolves of London
Nighttime in the Switching Yard
Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner

--

A great talent, gone but never forgotten.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


today we lost a truly excitable boy - Warren Zevon. RIP.

Darn! 8^( I've heard his last album is pretty good.


There all pretty good. Ya gotta respect a guy who, diagnosed with terminal lung
cancer and given 2 months to live, keeps going for over a year and releases
such tracks as a cover of Dylan's "Knockin' On Heaven's Door" and "I'll Sleep
When I'm Dead".

But my favorite is "Excitable Boy", which, besides the title track, includes
such classics as:

Werewolves of London
Nighttime in the Switching Yard
Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner


They played a cut from his new album. Good stuff, though pretty soft
edged for him. You could play it on a folk music show. Understandable
under the circumstances. It's gonna be my next buy.

The only thing I'm surprised about is that no one has mentioned my
favorite Warren Zevon song, "Lawyers, Guns, and Money".

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
...
I was certainly taught how to use a Smith chart in engineering school. Not
only that, but how to derive the axes mathematically. The latter I have
forgotten, but I will never forget how to use one. There again, I went to
engineering school in England, where you don't have to do 'English 101' or
'Western Civilization' if you study engineering, hence sufficient time to
learn about Smith Charts!

73 de N3KIP

While attending school for aeronautical engineering, one of the prerequisite
courses was English literature...and we were made to suffer! hihi

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

You aked why, then you can't deal with the answer.

You did not answer the questions I asked, so there's no reason for me to answer
the questions you asked.

You are full of questions and short of answers.

You say EE schools don't teach the Smith Chart, then you cay you can
name one that does, but then won't.

You did not answer the questions I asked, so there's no reason for me to answer
the questions you asked.

You are full of questions and short of answers.

You say that Smith Charts are easy to learn,

How do you know they are not?

Antennas and RF transmission lines are not dealt with by every EE.
Every ham that gets on the air deals with antennas.

and won't keep anyone out of the Amateur Service,

Show me where I claimed that.

but there are far far fewer Smith Chart users
than Morse Code users,

How do you know?

and Morse Code keeps people out of the ARS.

How does it do that? How does a code keep people from becoming hams?

You're acting obtuse.

Obviously, you are humor- and irony-impaired, Brian Burke.

Are you Dave in drag?

You are full of questions and short of answers.

You're just getting back what you give.

Got that end fed antenna up yet?

Brian Kelly wrote:

I really hate to bust yer bubble again Alun but Smith Charts and all
the rest of the artifact nomograph "solvers" were already stale about
the time you popped out of school. Didja also have a course in slide
rule operations too? I'll bet you did, dinya?

Now ya did it Brian! I will always have a soft spot for slide rules. Of
course they are obsolete, but when I got my first slide rule, it took
math out of the abstract and put it in the real world for me.

I was in the last class at our school that was trained in their use. I
kind of miss the engineer's sixshooter on my belt! ;^)


Where d'ya put the batteries in those things anyhow?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Brian Kelly wrote:

I really hate to bust yer bubble again Alun but Smith Charts and all
the rest of the artifact nomograph "solvers" were already stale about
the time you popped out of school. Didja also have a course in slide
rule operations too? I'll bet you did, dinya?

Now ya did it Brian! I will always have a soft spot for slide rules. Of
course they are obsolete, but when I got my first slide rule, it took
math out of the abstract and put it in the real world for me.

I was in the last class at our school that was trained in their use. I
kind of miss the engineer's sixshooter on my belt! ;^)


Where d'ya put the batteries in those things anyhow?

- Mike KB3EIA -


Well said! I still have my log tables book (that's logarithms for the young
folks). Remarkably useless now-a-days.

I worked in the insurance industry and used to enjoy driving young, visiting
actuaries crazy. They would ask a question on the data presented and rather
than bang something out on my computer or programmable calculator (both of
which I used at all times EXCEPT when a newbie actuary was present), I'd
whip out my slapstick. As my eyesight become worse, so did the resulting
answers. grin

Paul AB0SI

" wrote in message news:N918b.415225$YN5.279999@sccrnsc01...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Brian Kelly wrote:

I really hate to bust yer bubble again Alun but Smith Charts and all
the rest of the artifact nomograph "solvers" were already stale about
the time you popped out of school. Didja also have a course in slide
rule operations too? I'll bet you did, dinya?

Now ya did it Brian! I will always have a soft spot for slide rules. Of
course they are obsolete,

We never had courses on either slide rule or log tables "operations".
We had to pick 'em up on the fly on our own. Some of the guys learned
to use 'em in high school. During the first couple weeks of class
there were a lotta guys huddled in groups in the cafeteria trying to
figure the things out. I never did learn to use more than maybe 8-10
of the 21 scales on my bamboo Post. That was a NICE slipstick and I
still have it.

but when I got my first slide rule, it took
math out of the abstract and put it in the real world for me.

I never considered that but in looking back you're right.

I was in the last class at our school that was trained in their use. I
kind of miss the engineer's sixshooter on my belt! ;^)

The engineering students' full dress uniform (the physics majors
weren't far behind) also included a pocket protector full of whatever
ya could jam into it, a worn-out rumpled corduroy jacket and a
beat-to-crap briecase . . The uniform definitely differentiated the
engineers from the business administration weenies.

Where d'ya put the batteries in those things anyhow?

- Mike KB3EIA -


Well said! I still have my log tables book (that's logarithms for the young
folks). Remarkably useless now-a-days.

Whatta pain THEY were!!

I worked in the insurance industry and used to enjoy driving young, visiting
actuaries crazy. They would ask a question on the data presented and rather
than bang something out on my computer or programmable calculator (both of
which I used at all times EXCEPT when a newbie actuary was present)

I've pulled that one. I'm waiting for the opportunities to spring it
on a nephew and a grandson.

I'd
whip out my slapstick. As my eyesight become worse, so did the resulting
answers. grin

Paul AB0SI

w3rv

Alun Palmer wrote in message . ..
(Brian Kelly) wrote in
om:

Alun Palmer wrote in message
. ..



I was certainly taught how to use a Smith chart in engineering school.
Not only that, but how to derive the axes mathematically. The latter I
have forgotten, but I will never forget how to use one. There again, I
went to engineering school in Emgland, where you don't have to do
'English 101' or 'Western Civilization' if you study engineering,
hence sufficient time to learn about Smith Charts!

I really hate to bust yer bubble again Alun but Smith Charts and all
the rest of the artifact nomograph "solvers" were already stale about
the time you popped out of school. Didja also have a course in slide
rule operations too? I'll bet you did, dinya?

Looks to me like you were obsolete when you graduated. Here's today's
"Smith Charts" Alun.

http://home.t-online.de/home/weberconnect/csmith2.htm

http://rf.rfglobalnet.com/software_m...ware/2/102.htm


73 de N3KIP

w3rv


Smith charts still work. And no, the last time I used a slide rule was in
high school. So, I am perhaps 5-10 years younger than you think.

The world was blessed with your codeless presence on Nov 11 1957.
Handheld calculators rendered slide rules obsolete when you were
14-15. Are you still using Leydon jars for capacitors Alun?

w3rv

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

" wrote in message
news:N918b.415225$YN5.279999@sccrnsc01...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Brian Kelly wrote:

I really hate to bust yer bubble again Alun but Smith Charts and all
the rest of the artifact nomograph "solvers" were already stale about
the time you popped out of school. Didja also have a course in slide
rule operations too? I'll bet you did, dinya?

Now ya did it Brian! I will always have a soft spot for slide rules. Of
course they are obsolete,

We never had courses on either slide rule or log tables "operations".
We had to pick 'em up on the fly on our own. Some of the guys learned
to use 'em in high school.

Like me. Graduated high school in 1972.

During the first couple weeks of class
there were a lotta guys huddled in groups in the cafeteria trying to
figure the things out. I never did learn to use more than maybe 8-10
of the 21 scales on my bamboo Post. That was a NICE slipstick and I
still have it.

oh mama

but when I got my first slide rule, it took
math out of the abstract and put it in the real world for me.

I never considered that but in looking back you're right.

And besides the slide rule, there were various forms of specialized "lightning
calculators". At one time ARRL sold a several different types for solving LC
problems, designing coils, power/resistance, etc. I still have and use one of
the later-model slide rule LC ones for tuned-circuit work. Gives an eagle-eye
view of effects ("if I use a 140 pf variable instad of 100, I'll be able to
reach 2 MHz...").

I was in the last class at our school that was trained in their use. I
kind of miss the engineer's sixshooter on my belt! ;^)

The engineering students' full dress uniform (the physics majors
weren't far behind) also included a pocket protector full of whatever
ya could jam into it, a worn-out rumpled corduroy jacket and a
beat-to-crap briecase . . The uniform definitely differentiated the
engineers from the business administration weenies.

And other wannabees. In my day it was only slightly different. Denim replaced
corduroy and the briefcase was often a backpack. Mine was an old Bulletin
delivery bag.

Where d'ya put the batteries in those things anyhow?

- Mike KB3EIA -


Well said! I still have my log tables book (that's logarithms for the young
folks). Remarkably useless now-a-days.

Whatta pain THEY were!!

Amen.

I worked in the insurance industry and used to enjoy driving young,
visiting
actuaries crazy. They would ask a question on the data presented and rather
than bang something out on my computer or programmable calculator (both of
which I used at all times EXCEPT when a newbie actuary was present)

I've pulled that one. I'm waiting for the opportunities to spring it
on a nephew and a grandson.

Years ago I learned to do basic math to 2 decimal places in me head. Saved a
lot of fiddling. Refined it when I started running so I could figure out time
splits on the fly. Still amazes the unwashed multitudes.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Brian Kelly wrote:

The world was blessed with your codeless presence on Nov 11 1957.
Handheld calculators rendered slide rules obsolete when you were
14-15. Are you still using Leydon jars for capacitors Alun?

Come on, Brian! He's sans cw. That's the wave of the future. No Leyden
for him!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Brian Kelly wrote:
The world was blessed with your codeless presence on Nov 11 1957.
Handheld calculators rendered slide rules obsolete when you were
14-15. Are you still using Leydon jars for capacitors Alun?

The basic four-function handheld calculator was still about $600
when he was 17; at least that's what we were selling them for at
RS at that time.

I was still using a slide rule in my 1980 college physics class.

Jeff KH6O
--
Operations Specialist 1st, U.S. Coast Guard
Mathematics Lecturer, University of Hawaii System

slide rules

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:


And besides the slide rule, there were various forms of specialized "lightning
calculators". At one time ARRL sold a several different types for solving LC
problems, designing coils, power/resistance, etc. I still have and use one of
the later-model slide rule LC ones for tuned-circuit work. Gives an eagle-eye
view of effects ("if I use a 140 pf variable instad of 100, I'll be able to
reach 2 MHz...").

I forgot about those, they were really slick. I had an L/C version.
Went the way of the 75A4.

I have a current-tech version. I originally bought Mathcad for doing
biz-type engineeing number crunching but at this point I've written
and canned more ham related math routines than I have for biz
purposes. One of 'em is an L/C cruncher which is pretty simple. I also
wrote a coil designer which is *not* simple. Net result is that I can
bring both up in separate windows and copy-paste results between 'em
and bingo, almost instant tank circuit designs right down to the
number of turns of #X wire x Y form diameter x Z winding length. To
the fifth decimal place when I get really anal.


The engineering students' full dress uniform (the physics majors
weren't far behind) also included a pocket protector full of whatever
ya could jam into it, a worn-out rumpled corduroy jacket and a
beat-to-crap briecase . . The uniform definitely differentiated the
engineers from the business administration weenies.

And other wannabees. In my day it was only slightly different. Denim replaced
corduroy and the briefcase was often a backpack. Mine was an old Bulletin
delivery bag.

No, NO! Tell me you din use a Bulletin bag for a briefcase, say it
isn't true! Gauche! GAUCHE! You'd have been lampooned back across
Chestnut St. if you'd shown up in class on our side of the street with
one of those.

But then you people also had water buffalo on campus. Sigh.


Years ago I learned to do basic math to 2 decimal places in me head. Saved a
lot of fiddling. Refined it when I started running so I could figure out time
splits on the fly. Still amazes the unwashed multitudes.

The unwashed multitudes can't make change for a buck in their heads.

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Just to put those numbers in perspective, I'll list some other things that I
remember from 1973-1974. An engineer who had just graduated with a
Bachelor's degree from college was getting about $10,000 to $11,000 per
year. A nice 1200 sq ft house with full basement and decent sized yard
could be purchased in the suburbs around Seattle for under $30,000 and the
monthly payment was under $300 per month.

I graduated EE school in 1976 and those numbers are right in line with my
experience (1976 numbers about 15% higher due to inflation).

Some other datapoints:

- New car prices ranged from $3000 to $5000
- Gasoline was about 60 cents a gallon
- A year's tuition at an Ivy League university was $4500
- Ham rig prices were somewhat less than today's prices Maybe 60-75%.
- Inflation was double digit and interest rates were not far behind

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dee D.
Flint"
writes:

Just to put those numbers in perspective, I'll list some other things
that I
remember from 1973-1974. An engineer who had just graduated with a
Bachelor's degree from college was getting about $10,000 to $11,000 per
year. A nice 1200 sq ft house with full basement and decent sized yard
could be purchased in the suburbs around Seattle for under $30,000 and
the
monthly payment was under $300 per month.

I graduated EE school in 1976 and those numbers are right in line with my
experience (1976 numbers about 15% higher due to inflation).

Some other datapoints:

- New car prices ranged from $3000 to $5000
- Gasoline was about 60 cents a gallon
- A year's tuition at an Ivy League university was $4500
- Ham rig prices were somewhat less than today's prices Maybe 60-75%.
- Inflation was double digit and interest rates were not far behind

73 de Jim, N2EY

My first son was born in October 1974. The following year, 1975, I can't
remember the exact figure but my then-husband made right at or a little
under $3,000.00 and I think the only "assistance" (welfare) we were on then
was for Medicaid. I don't remember ever doing food stamps, cash, or
anything like that. But, I think I remember when I found out I was
pregnant, we immediately went to Social Services to see what we could do
about Health Insurance.

Anyway, so health issues aside (and other than pregnancy neither of us ever
went to the doctor), we, uh, well, subsisted on that income. Heh heh, we
sure didn't "live" on it, but we weren't in need; we had food on the table,
gas for the car to go to work, and rented an actual house. Granted, we went
without cooking gas all Summer (we cooked on a grill outside or ate a lot of
sandwiches), so we could save up for heating oil through the Winter. The
house rent, if I remember correctly, was $75.00/month. Two-story, 2-bdrm, 1
bath, kitchen, living and dining. Huge lot (I grew and froze all our
veggies in a 32' x 32' garden--with NO motorized tools mind ya), we had a
deer every Winter that I'd make stretch for meats (mostly ground to make it
last), and my husband ate fish (trout right out of the Battenkill River).
Yuk, I didn't like fish.

Gasoline for the auto, what was it? $0.28 or something near there? Gosh, I
can't remember all those prices. Baby food was, I think, $0.19 a jar
and--oh, disposable diapers were just coming onto the market and I sure as
all get-out didn't have money for them. LOL I went the cloth diaper route,
in fact I can't think of any of my friends using the disposable, except for
whatever ones they got in baby showers and, when those were gone, that was
it.

Anyway, life may have seemed simpler then, and maybe it was to some degree.
But, I'll take life today much quicker! I could not be shopping for a 2300
sq. ft. home back then!!

Kim W5TIT

Alun Palmer wrote in message .. .
The world was blessed with your codeless presence on Nov 11 1957.
Handheld calculators rendered slide rules obsolete when you were
14-15. Are you still using Leydon jars for capacitors Alun?

w3rv


That's about right on the dates, except that there were very few
calculators around back then. I remember my dad paying the equivalent of
about $250 for a rather large four-function calculator c1970-1971 ish. It
was made by Sharp. Sinclair had a cheaper one, but you had to build it
from a kit!

Sure they were out there in that timeframe. I forget exactly what year
it was, maybe '71, when I paid $200 for a four-function Japanese-made
Canon calculator. Beautifully finished, solid as a rock. They were
sold by Canon itinerent peddlers who went out knocking on the doors of
tech-based companies which is how I got mine. I happen to prefer HP
RPN calculators which are no longer available in stores. My 1983 HP
32S died about three years ago but HP still sells the things direct.
It's a cult calculator and HP supports the cult. Odd . . !

Also, high school (at least it's sometimes called that, amongst other
things) is usually age 11-18 in the UK, so it takes in middle
school/junior high (although in some areas of the UK there are middle
schools, just to confuse the issue).

It's all the same ball of wax. The regime I plodded thru was into
first grade at five, into junior high school for seventh grade, then
into high school for tenth thru twelfth grades, pop out at 17-18.

w3rv

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
"Kim" wrote in message
...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...

- New car prices ranged from $3000 to $5000
- Gasoline was about 60 cents a gallon
- A year's tuition at an Ivy League university was $4500
- Ham rig prices were somewhat less than today's prices Maybe 60-75%.
- Inflation was double digit and interest rates were not far behind

73 de Jim, N2EY

My first son was born in October 1974.

Are you gonna be mad at me if I call ya grandma?


Proud of it!! She's eight years old and we go shopping all the time. I've
been teaching her to shop since she was about 18 months old. Every school
year so far, we've paid a visit to Payless Shoe Source. I save all Summer,
and when we go in the store I tell her to start picking until I tell her to
stop. We have a blast!

Oh, and she is my youngest son's daughter. Oldest has never had kids yet.


Anyway, so health issues aside (and other than pregnancy neither of us
ever
went to the doctor), we, uh, well, subsisted on that income. Heh heh,
we
sure didn't "live" on it, but we weren't in need; we had food on the
table,
gas for the car to go to work, and rented an actual house. Granted, we
went
without cooking gas all Summer (we cooked on a grill outside or ate a
lot of
sandwiches), so we could save up for heating oil through the Winter.
The
house rent, if I remember correctly, was $75.00/month. Two-story,
2-bdrm, 1
bath, kitchen, living and dining. Huge lot (I grew and froze all our
veggies in a 32' x 32' garden--with NO motorized tools mind ya), we had
a
deer every Winter that I'd make stretch for meats (mostly ground to make
it
last), and my husband ate fish (trout right out of the Battenkill
River).
Yuk, I didn't like fish.

This was New York State?


Oh, definitely. I lived in NY until 1979.


I got my first deer a little less than 2 years ago. Only problem was I
got 'er with a Honda Odyssey. Even though I asked nice, for some
reason the body shop wouldn't paint a little Bambi outline on the new
fender...


Well, yeah, deer are hard to come by if one is depending upon only "one"
man--and don't get any twisted ideas there... What I mean is, all the guys
used to start hunting on Season open. Good 'ol Rick usually got first meat
by Thanksgiving. He was single and, actually, going to college at the time
(he's the reason we were on the Plattsburgh campus to see Alice Cooper).
So, about three of us families would divvy up that one. Then, as it went,
there'd usually be one or two more and we'd divvy that one up. One could
end up with a freezer full of ground meat. My kids' Godfather tried to get
me into racoon and turtle but, dude, that weren't happenin'.


Gasoline for the auto, what was it? $0.28 or something near there?

Until it doubled after the first OPEC embargo. But yeah, it was cheap,
as were used cars and parts. Plus you could work on 'em yourself.


heh heh...yeah, or use them for freezers! We used to have a Ford Galaxy
that died on us in the middle of Winter. Same week, the fridge went. Well,
money was tight. So, we'd use the car to keep the refridgerated stuff in
and, believe it or not, it was actually cold enough to even keep ice cream a
day or two!


Oddly enough, gas today is even cheaper, once you adjust for
inflation. It's one of the few necessities that has gone that way.


Oh no...good 'ol Rick (mentioned above) used to get into how money was going
to be cheaper in the future than it was then...in fact, he'd make long-term
credit purchases based upon that. You mathemeticians!


Yup. A lot depended on what it cost to wash the diapers vs. buying the
disposables. If you pay all your own utilities the cloth route gets
expensive real fast. If the water and electric are somebody else's
problem it goes the other way.

Then there's baby formula vs....no, I'm NOT gonna go there!


Yeah, and neither did I :o


Anyway, life may have seemed simpler then, and maybe it was to some
degree.
But, I'll take life today much quicker! I could not be shopping for a
2300
sq. ft. home back then!!

2300 sf would be a big house fer me, then or today. Location,
location, location....


Right here where we are at. Moving it in before the end of this year. And,
it is big! We've decided instead of building, to go ahead and buy a
manufactured home, and have a pier and beam foundation put in, then move it
onto that. We can get more house for the money, it's vinyl sided, has the
OSB top, bottom, and sides (marine grade), we've upgraded the carpet, have
two living areas, 3 baths (if the home we think we've settled on ends up
being the one we get), and I'll gain an extra bedroom to boot! That's in
case my parents or my hubby's Mom ever has to come and live with us (the two
living areas will accommodate a nice gathering and be good for if the
parents have to live with us, too!).


In the "old days", necessities were relatively inexpensive and
luxuries were relatively expensive. But since then the trend has been
for the necessities to get more and more expensive and the luxuries
cheaper and cheaper. So now many hams can afford a $1000-2000 rig, but
they can't afford a nice house on a big lot with no CC&Rs to put the
rig in.


Yeah, it seems that way. I was just telling my darlin' the other day that I
still feel "priviledged" to shop for something in a store called Linens and
Things (don't know if you have those up there). I remember when that store
used to be for the rich folks (from my perspective).


IIRC the minimum wage back in '75 was around $1.50, and there are
about 2000 working hours in a straight-time year. (40 hrs/week x 50
weeks). So you folks were essentially living on one minimum-wage
income. Think about what those numbers work out to today...

73 de Jim, N2EY

2080 hrs. to be exact. And, that wage sounds about right. Hey, do you
remember when 5-Friday months were the cat's meow? Or, did you ever budget
that way? I budgeted based on a four week month. When those 5 Fridays
rolled around, that was high cotton time!

Yes, I was a stay-at-home mom until my kid (one went to go live with his
dad) was about 11 and then was working from home, so still was at home for
him. I've only been climbing the professional ladder for about 18 years;
somewhere around there anyway.

Radio. Yeah, I remember when we first became hams! I didn't know it, but
Cliff had been saving from the time I'd gotten him interested in the hobby
and we were going to classes and "studying." When we got our ticket--he
started out with swim COW so he was a Tech+, he went out and bought a Yeas
890AT (or is that 850AT). Anyway, he got what was then a darned nice radio
with all the bells and whistles. We already had a 70' tower up, with a 10M
quad antenna on top. Man, that thing was nice. First bad wind that year
(90 mph past the house--straight line winds) blew that quad over and broke
one of the fiberglass spreaders. We could have replaced it. But, this was
a 3-element quad for 10M. Imagine how darned big and cumbersome that thing
was!?

Kim W5TIT

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

slide rules

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:


And besides the slide rule, there were various forms of specialized
"lightning
calculators". At one time ARRL sold a several different types for solving
LC
problems, designing coils, power/resistance, etc. I still have and use one
of
the later-model slide rule LC ones for tuned-circuit work. Gives an
eagle-eye
view of effects ("if I use a 140 pf variable instad of 100, I'll be able to
reach 2 MHz...").

I forgot about those, they were really slick. I had an L/C version.
Went the way of the 75A4.

damn.....I always trashpick the wrong neighborhoods...

I have a current-tech version. I originally bought Mathcad for doing
biz-type engineeing number crunching but at this point I've written
and canned more ham related math routines than I have for biz
purposes. One of 'em is an L/C cruncher which is pretty simple. I also
wrote a coil designer which is *not* simple. Net result is that I can
bring both up in separate windows and copy-paste results between 'em
and bingo, almost instant tank circuit designs right down to the
number of turns of #X wire x Y form diameter x Z winding length. To
the fifth decimal place when I get really anal.

Nice!

What's even neater is that nowadays we have the choice.

The engineering students' full dress uniform (the physics majors
weren't far behind) also included a pocket protector full of whatever
ya could jam into it, a worn-out rumpled corduroy jacket and a
beat-to-crap briecase . . The uniform definitely differentiated the
engineers from the business administration weenies.

And other wannabees. In my day it was only slightly different. Denim
replaced
corduroy and the briefcase was often a backpack. Mine was an old Bulletin
delivery bag.

No, NO! Tell me you din use a Bulletin bag for a briefcase, say it
isn't true! Gauche! GAUCHE!

Turned inside out so the lettering didn't show.

You'd have been lampooned back across
Chestnut St. if you'd shown up in class on our side of the street with
one of those.

Not at all. It was the '70s. Compared to what was considered "fashion" in
1973-76, that bag was the most chic thing going...

But then you people also had water buffalo on campus. Sigh.

That was long after my time.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:17:21 -0500, Kim W5TIT wrote:

IIRC the minimum wage back in '75 was around $1.50, and there are
about 2000 working hours in a straight-time year. (40 hrs/week x 50
weeks). So you folks were essentially living on one minimum-wage
income. Think about what those numbers work out to today...

2080 hrs. to be exact.

Somewhere in the early 80s the Feds changed to 2087 to account for
the leap year day. Even though it changed our paychecks only by the
cost of a donut or two, did we scream. To no avail, of course.

Man, that thing was nice. First bad wind that year
(90 mph past the house--straight line winds) blew that quad over and broke
one of the fiberglass spreaders. We could have replaced it. But, this was
a 3-element quad for 10M. Imagine how darned big and cumbersome that thing
was!?

Was it a 11-meter "cubical quad" before it became a 10-meter quad ??
Hmmm.... ????

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
et...
Was it a 11-meter "cubical quad" before it became a 10-meter quad ??
Hmmm.... ????

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

What are the implications if it was, Phil? Most antenna manufacturers market
their 10/11m single band models as such. This includes Maco (ex Wilson),
Mosley, Butternut, Trident (UK), Max-Gain, Delta X-Ray, and Cubex.

Quote from Cubex:

"These same construction techniques are used in our new line of rugged Quad
antennas for the 11M band - The MAGNUM-CB Series!"

Is there a difference? (Other than frequency, that is.)

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

Nice!

What's even neater is that nowadays we have the choice.

I never would have guessed you were pro-choice.

I never thought Rev Jim was a "pro."

:-)

LHA

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:04:51 GMT, Bert Craig wrote:

Was it a 11-meter "cubical quad" before it became a 10-meter quad ??
Hmmm.... ????

What are the implications if it was, Phil?

"Stand Clear of the Chain....." ggg

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane