Another ham-bashing Troll.

Assuming that he means what he says, the guy must be an utter moron... One
of those who thinks that ham radio and the Internet "compete" with each
other, as if they were rival communications carriers going after the same
market... What a dope!

Charles Brabham, N5PVL



"Y letter Y" wrote in message
...

It's too little, too late Hans.

Years of keeping the CW requirement and
the advent of the Internet as a cheap alternative
to Amateur Radio spelled the end of Amateur
Radio for those who could see the writing on
the wall a VERY long time ago.

Add to that a median-age of 67 Yrs for the US Amateur population does not
help
either - we are LITERALLY
dying off.

Finally the outrageous cost of ham gear (HF gear)
is enough to scare off any prospective newcommer.
Who in their right mind wants to spend $2000+
for a Yaesu HF station when for about $400 you can
buy a fully equipped "white box" PC with a 56K
and DSL modem, and be able to interact worldwide
without the use of unsightly dipoles and tri-band beam
antennas...?

Hans, Amateur Radio is **OBSOLETE**.
It's popularity is enjoyed by an extremely small
esoteric sector of the populace, and the general
public looks at us as a curiosity at best.

That is the bottom line .

Ken (ex-W3 circa 1985)

"K0HB" wrote in message
news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@mygat e.mailgate.org...
Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925
new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of
guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have
not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond
the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only
2.3%.

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB







--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Jim,

We might also check the Social Security Death index ..
I check it daily. If my name isn't in there, it's gonna be a good day )

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article ilgate.org,
"K0HB" writes:

Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925
new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of
guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have
not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond
the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only
2.3%.

That rate is so low that the methodology needs examining. IOW, how did the
"couple of guys" determine their data?

How did they examine the data for every one of those 1,925 licenses? How
did
they deal with name changes, address changes, and the vanity callsign rule
changes?

I'm not saying they were dumb or had an ulterior moive, just that their
data
analysis methods need to be examined.

Did they check any other license classes?

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

Here's one - track down those who did not reup and find out why.

73 de Jim, N2EY




---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...
Well, there ya go, Hans. One of your subjects heard from. Any further
questions?
Dick

Anybody can have their post answered by a troll. What, did you think that
Hans was troll trolling, or something?

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim "
writes:

FM!!!!!????

(snipped for brevity)

That's one reason, Kim, stated in a way that makes a lot of sense.

Here's another:

Even before 1991, a considerable number of hams in this area (metro
Philly)
were friends and family members of hams who wanted a way to keep in touch
while
mobile. The most common setup was the 2-careers/kids/cars household,
where the radio was used for all sorts of "honeydew" purposes.

You and Jim (Hampton) mentioned this and I had completely forgot about that
aspect! And, it was also one of the reasons I so easily got my husband
interested--as soon as I began mentioning how neat it would be to stay in
touch better than with a mobile phone--which back then was cost prohibitive.

'zactly. And it's not a new idea, either - back when long distance phone calls
were prohibitively expensive for most people, there were *some* hams whose main
interest was keeping in touch with family members who were all over the country
- or world.

This sort of thing was particularly popular on some machines around here
because the culture in this area encourages open machines, deference to
mobiles
and HTs, and wide coverage. Plus there are so many open machines around
here that you can usally find one that's not in use.

What really drove that boom was not the dropping of the code test but the
availability of inexpensive, small, easy-to-use HTs and mobile rigs. And
the proliferation of repeaters,

I concede, now looking at it that way.

Nothing to concede, Kim. Your "FM" story is one source of new hams. My
"honeydew" story is another. I don't think any trends in amateur radio have a
single source/reason.

These folks were hams, all right, but their interest in ham radio was not
about
radio as an end in itself, but radio as a means to an end. IOW, just a
tool to do a job, not the main attraction.

Trouble is, cell phones now fill those roles.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Absolutely. Probably one of the biggest reasons we (my dear and I) haven't
been all that driven/motivated to get the equipment back into the vehicles.

Exactly. On the one hand, almost everyone sees a cell phone as a "necessity"
these days, and the calling plans and good (not great, but good) coverage make
them the comm tool of choice 99% of the time. Plus, "installation" consists of
putting the charge cord in the cigarette lighter socket.

Putting your ham gear in the truck is a whole different story unless you want
to do the lighter socket/magmount thing.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Rich M" wrote in message
...

"charlesb" wrote in message
m...
Another ham-bashing Troll.

Assuming that he means what he says, the guy must be an utter moron...
One
of those who thinks that ham radio and the Internet "compete" with each
other, as if they were rival communications carriers going after the
same
market... What a dope!

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

I feel he makes an interesting conjecture Charles.

Consider: If one were to set up two PC's with full
internet capability & CD-ROM burners, and six
feet away, two HFham stations with control op's
at a hamfest.

Next you invite 10 young people (14-17 yo) at random who have
no previous exposure to ham radio from the crowd to
choose which items to explore and operate.
Which of these two setup's do you think that
in the end-game, the greater percentage of
young people would choose to bring home if they
had the option to do so?

(My guess is they'll want to download MP3's
from Kazaa or Morpheus instead of calling
CQ on 10 Meters thru a microphone)

- If you can find any teenagers who are not already familiar with that
stuff... Maybe you could find a few in an economically depressed area, might
be worth a try.

Most teenagers I know are already up to speed on the Internet stuff. It's
old hat to them, the kind of stuff they see anywhere and everywhere,
including at school and home.

My guess is that they would show more interest in the ham gear, because at
least it would be something new, that does something different.

Also, a surprising number of teenagers today are seriously interested in
public service. They want to do something good. For these teens, ham radio
has endless potential and yes it most definitely does excite their interest.

So you can take your "The Internet is more interesting that Ham Radio"
attitude, fold it up so that it is all sharp corners, and... Well, I'm sure
you figure out something to do with it then.

The only point that anti-ham troll has, Rich, is the one on top of his head.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Rich M wrote:
"charlesb" wrote in message
m...

Another ham-bashing Troll.

Assuming that he means what he says, the guy must be an utter moron... One
of those who thinks that ham radio and the Internet "compete" with each
other, as if they were rival communications carriers going after the same
market... What a dope!

Charles Brabham, N5PVL


I feel he makes an interesting conjecture Charles.

Consider: If one were to set up two PC's with full
internet capability & CD-ROM burners, and six
feet away, two HFham stations with control op's
at a hamfest.

Next you invite 10 young people (14-17 yo) at random who have
no previous exposure to ham radio from the crowd to
choose which items to explore and operate.
Which of these two setup's do you think that
in the end-game, the greater percentage of
young people would choose to bring home if they
had the option to do so?

(My guess is they'll want to download MP3's
from Kazaa or Morpheus instead of calling
CQ on 10 Meters thru a microphone)

I won't argue with your basic premise, Rich. You are absolutely right.

And if a similar number of adults were chosen, a whole lot of them
might get excited at how much porn they could download.

But I don't see that as a good comparison. For most people, computers
are a hobby, but not a technical one. Most computers today are sold
bundled with pre-setup hardware and software, and all you do is plug
them in, get an isp, and off ya go.

Most of these people would not be interested in the amateur radio
station even if there were no computer in the same room. They just don't
have the technical interest. You just keep plugging away to catch that 1
in 10 or 100 people that will be interested in the ARS.

If I were to hazard a guess, I wouldn't be surprised if the low
retention rate was due to the number of non-technical people who got
their technician license, and then had no real interest and therefore no
reason to renew their ticket, as they probably hadn't been on the air
since soon after they got their license, or as soon as there was general
cell phone coverage.

- Mike KB3EIA -

On Sunday 07 September 2003 11:09 am, Rich M wrote:

Consider: If one were to set up two PC's with full
internet capability & CD-ROM burners, and six
feet away, two HFham stations with control op's
at a hamfest.

Next you invite 10 young people (14-17 yo) at random who have
no previous exposure to ham radio from the crowd to
choose which items to explore and operate.
Which of these two setup's do you think that
in the end-game, the greater percentage of
young people would choose to bring home if they
had the option to do so?

(My guess is they'll want to download MP3's
from Kazaa or Morpheus instead of calling
CQ on 10 Meters thru a microphone)

Consider: It's 1955 and you set up the 2 ham stations above and 6 feet away
you set up some baseballs, bat's, and gloves.

Next you invite 10 young people (14-17 yo) at random who have
no previous exposure to ham radio from the crowd to
choose which items to explore and operate.
Which of these two setup's do you think that
in the end-game, the greater percentage of
young people would choose to bring home if they
had the option to do so?

Amateur radio is not now or ever has been for "normal" people. It's for the
techie's, geeks and nerds. Where do the young techie's, geeks and nerds
look for information? The Internet. What kind of information will they
find? Almost nothing but bitching.

Really, in all my hobbies that I check out on the net I have never see such
a nasty bunch of adults acting like 8 year olds. I know it's a vocal
minority making the noise but it doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth.

The internet should/could be one of the best things to ever happen to
Amateur radio. And it falls on us to make it happen.

--
John R. Marshall

The Hotrodding Network is Back!
http://www.hotrodding.net

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"K0HB" wrote in message
news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@myga te.mailgate.org...
Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925
new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of
guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have
not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond
the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only
2.3%.

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Hans, though it pains me to do so, I would suggest censuring amateurs
such as DICK, Larry, Steve, Bruice, Kelly, and Jim as they continually
put forth the idea that an amateur that is not versed in Morse is an
incomplete amateur. Nevermind that this amateur can do PSK31 and
FSTV.

Everyone knows that a picture is worth a thousand words, so if Jim can
send a thousand real words (not ARRL numbergrams or Q-signals) in the
space of one FSTV image, ... maybe he shouldn't be censured. Just
maybe. Get back with me if he passes.

Furthermore they exhibit a throwback mentality, which just annoys me.
OK, you've got your marching orders, as far as you can march on a
boat. So be off with you, Master Chief.

Brian/N0iMD

I doubt that those who dropped out did so because of these people, this
newsgroup, or the activities of hams on the air or on the internet. It's
unlikely they even know about this newsgroup let alone frequent it. They
are probably people who lost interest years ago due to the fact that they
were not into radio as a hobby but simply to talk to spouses and children
around town. As cell phones became cheap and service improved, there was no
reason for these people to continue in the hobby. We probably also lost
some due to lack of elmering but if they don't let us know they are out
there, we can't find them to elmer. Some of those hams never got even a 2m
handheld let alone another radio. They never followed up by joining a club
to get more exposure to ham radio and elmering in ham radio.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"charlesb" wrote in message
m...

"K0HB" wrote in message
news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@mygat e.mailgate.org...
Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925
new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of
guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have
not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond
the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only
2.3%.

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Drop the no-code provision of the Tech license, obviously.

With a 97.7% failure rate, I'd say the new policy is a real loser. - We
better drop it fast and return to what worked better in the past.

I predicted something like this, but not to such a degree, when so many of
the new no-code techs showed a generalized disrespect for the PART97 regs
and the traditions of amateur radio. It was obvious that many of them did
not care at all about the hobby. - They just wanted to know what they
could
get out it, what they could get away with. Many of them spent more time
bashing the hobby than anything else. As you have noted, almost none of
them
went on to progress and advance themselves as hams.

Personally, I think we will be much better off without most of those
"hams",
and that we should avoid policies that increase membership in this way in
the future. We should do as we did in the past, emphasizing quality, not
quantity of our membership.

According to your figures Hans, the no-code tech deal did the hobby more
harm than good.

Charles, N5PVL



I totally agree with you Charles. It is obvious they didn't really care
about the ARS.

As far as I'm concerned....GOOD RIDDANCE !!
We don't need quantity. We need quality.

Dan/W4NTI

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"charlesb" wrote in message
m...

"K0HB" wrote in message
news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@mygat e.mailgate.org...
Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted
1,925
new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple
of
guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have
not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond
the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only
2.3%.

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Drop the no-code provision of the Tech license, obviously.

With a 97.7% failure rate, I'd say the new policy is a real loser. - We
better drop it fast and return to what worked better in the past.

I predicted something like this, but not to such a degree, when so many
of
the new no-code techs showed a generalized disrespect for the PART97
regs
and the traditions of amateur radio. It was obvious that many of them
did
not care at all about the hobby. - They just wanted to know what they
could
get out it, what they could get away with. Many of them spent more time
bashing the hobby than anything else. As you have noted, almost none of
them
went on to progress and advance themselves as hams.

Personally, I think we will be much better off without most of those
"hams",
and that we should avoid policies that increase membership in this way
in
the future. We should do as we did in the past, emphasizing quality, not
quantity of our membership.

According to your figures Hans, the no-code tech deal did the hobby more
harm than good.

Charles, N5PVL



Sigh. How 'bout this: ever consider that a lot of CBers did, indeed, hear
of the new requirements (lower CW testing standards) and decide to get
into
ham radio for....guess what: FM!!!!!???? When I was "into" CB radio, I
was
barely ever on AM. There's a whole "other" gang of participants out there
on CB--and the mentors of that group are mostly hams. The USB/LSB and,
alas, FM--yes, illegal but done--part of CB is an area where you'll find
people who are courteous, have "gentlemen's" rules that are followed;
where
people experiment with antenna design and construction; where an "eyeball"
meeting is just as likely; etc.

When I was drawn to and got my ticket, you know what the greatest relief
was? Being able to turn a radio on and not hear all that hissing,
heterodyning, etc.!!! FM is great and that is what I like most about ham
radio. HF sucks for all the noise. So, no need/interest to upgrade.
And,
everyone else was as relieved and impressed with FM also. Listening to HF
brings back those days when we had to deal with all that noise. And, it's
not a pretty memory.

Kim W5TIT



Sounds like Kim need to operate a cell phone.

Dan/W4NTI