In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim "
writes:

FM!!!!!????

(snipped for brevity)

That's one reason, Kim, stated in a way that makes a lot of sense.

Here's another:

Even before 1991, a considerable number of hams in this area (metro
Philly)
were friends and family members of hams who wanted a way to keep in touch
while
mobile. The most common setup was the 2-careers/kids/cars household,
where the radio was used for all sorts of "honeydew" purposes.

You and Jim (Hampton) mentioned this and I had completely forgot about that
aspect! And, it was also one of the reasons I so easily got my husband
interested--as soon as I began mentioning how neat it would be to stay in
touch better than with a mobile phone--which back then was cost prohibitive.

'zactly. And it's not a new idea, either - back when long distance phone calls
were prohibitively expensive for most people, there were *some* hams whose main
interest was keeping in touch with family members who were all over the country
- or world.

This sort of thing was particularly popular on some machines around here
because the culture in this area encourages open machines, deference to
mobiles
and HTs, and wide coverage. Plus there are so many open machines around
here that you can usally find one that's not in use.

What really drove that boom was not the dropping of the code test but the
availability of inexpensive, small, easy-to-use HTs and mobile rigs. And
the proliferation of repeaters,

I concede, now looking at it that way.

Nothing to concede, Kim. Your "FM" story is one source of new hams. My
"honeydew" story is another. I don't think any trends in amateur radio have a
single source/reason.

These folks were hams, all right, but their interest in ham radio was not
about
radio as an end in itself, but radio as a means to an end. IOW, just a
tool to do a job, not the main attraction.

Trouble is, cell phones now fill those roles.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Absolutely. Probably one of the biggest reasons we (my dear and I) haven't
been all that driven/motivated to get the equipment back into the vehicles.

Exactly. On the one hand, almost everyone sees a cell phone as a "necessity"
these days, and the calling plans and good (not great, but good) coverage make
them the comm tool of choice 99% of the time. Plus, "installation" consists of
putting the charge cord in the cigarette lighter socket.

Putting your ham gear in the truck is a whole different story unless you want
to do the lighter socket/magmount thing.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"K0HB" wrote in message
news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@myga te.mailgate.org...
Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925
new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of
guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have
not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond
the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only
2.3%.

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Hans, though it pains me to do so, I would suggest censuring amateurs
such as DICK, Larry, Steve, Bruice, Kelly, and Jim as they continually
put forth the idea that an amateur that is not versed in Morse is an
incomplete amateur. Nevermind that this amateur can do PSK31 and
FSTV.

Everyone knows that a picture is worth a thousand words, so if Jim can
send a thousand real words (not ARRL numbergrams or Q-signals) in the
space of one FSTV image, ... maybe he shouldn't be censured. Just
maybe. Get back with me if he passes.

Furthermore they exhibit a throwback mentality, which just annoys me.
OK, you've got your marching orders, as far as you can march on a
boat. So be off with you, Master Chief.

Brian/N0iMD

I doubt that those who dropped out did so because of these people, this
newsgroup, or the activities of hams on the air or on the internet. It's
unlikely they even know about this newsgroup let alone frequent it. They
are probably people who lost interest years ago due to the fact that they
were not into radio as a hobby but simply to talk to spouses and children
around town. As cell phones became cheap and service improved, there was no
reason for these people to continue in the hobby. We probably also lost
some due to lack of elmering but if they don't let us know they are out
there, we can't find them to elmer. Some of those hams never got even a 2m
handheld let alone another radio. They never followed up by joining a club
to get more exposure to ham radio and elmering in ham radio.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"K0HB" wrote in message
news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@myga te.mailgate.org...
Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925
new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of
guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have
not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond
the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only
2.3%.

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Hans, though it pains me to do so, I would suggest censuring amateurs
such as DICK, Larry, Steve, Bruice, Kelly, and Jim as they continually
put forth the idea that an amateur that is not versed in Morse is an
incomplete amateur. Nevermind that this amateur can do PSK31 and
FSTV.

Everyone knows that a picture is worth a thousand words, so if Jim can
send a thousand real words (not ARRL numbergrams or Q-signals) in the
space of one FSTV image, ... maybe he shouldn't be censured. Just
maybe. Get back with me if he passes.

Furthermore they exhibit a throwback mentality, which just annoys me.
OK, you've got your marching orders, as far as you can march on a
boat. So be off with you, Master Chief.

Brian/N0iMD

I doubt that those who dropped out did so because of these people, this
newsgroup, or the activities of hams on the air or on the internet. It's
unlikely they even know about this newsgroup let alone frequent it.

Since this is their daily bread, I would dare say that DICK, Bruice,
Kelley, Steve, and Jim know about aqnd frequent this news group,
DEEEEEE

They
are probably people who lost interest years ago

Perhaps, but they must beeeee hurd.

due to the fact that they
were not into radio as a hobby but simply to talk to spouses and children
around town.

They've never mentioned children, cept DICK who claims grandchildren.

As cell phones became cheap and service improved, there was no
reason for these people to continue in the hobby. We probably also lost
some due to lack of elmering but if they don't let us know they are out
there, we can't find them to elmer.

No $hit, $hurlock. Ever hurd of the Novice Subbands?

You might as well call them Novices' because that's all the attention
they got.

Some of those hams never got even a 2m
handheld let alone another radio. They never followed up by joining a club
to get more exposure to ham radio and elmering in ham radio.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

According to DICK and Kelly, there was more mentoring going on than
you could shake a baton at.

"charlesb" wrote in message
m...

"K0HB" wrote in message
news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@mygat e.mailgate.org...
Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925
new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of
guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have
not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond
the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only
2.3%.

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Drop the no-code provision of the Tech license, obviously.

With a 97.7% failure rate, I'd say the new policy is a real loser. - We
better drop it fast and return to what worked better in the past.

I predicted something like this, but not to such a degree, when so many of
the new no-code techs showed a generalized disrespect for the PART97 regs
and the traditions of amateur radio. It was obvious that many of them did
not care at all about the hobby. - They just wanted to know what they
could
get out it, what they could get away with. Many of them spent more time
bashing the hobby than anything else. As you have noted, almost none of
them
went on to progress and advance themselves as hams.

Personally, I think we will be much better off without most of those
"hams",
and that we should avoid policies that increase membership in this way in
the future. We should do as we did in the past, emphasizing quality, not
quantity of our membership.

According to your figures Hans, the no-code tech deal did the hobby more
harm than good.

Charles, N5PVL



I totally agree with you Charles. It is obvious they didn't really care
about the ARS.

As far as I'm concerned....GOOD RIDDANCE !!
We don't need quantity. We need quality.

Dan/W4NTI

Brian,

If (just if) you are referring to me, my comment was the cw had virtually no
interference and I enjoyed it. I have not been in favor of keeping the cw
requirements; I would, however, like to see some exams that might:
1) be slightly (not severely) more difficult.
2) not have the questions and answers published.

PSK31 is one mode that seems to have quite a bit going for it. Personally,
I like the idea of any mode (ascii, amtor, rtty, psk, packet) that does not
require the intervention of a human to keep the information as close to 100%
accurate as possible. A good cw operator would likely be close, voice is
more suspect (especially of transcribing difficult names/addresses), but any
mode which can keep the human out of it is likely (at least in my opinion)
more valuable for certain traffic. Of course, sstv may be invaluable in
other areas. No one mode is 'ideal' for all situations.

I could, of course, ask you to send just one frame of fast-scan tv via
moonbounce - but, as noted, no one mode is ideal for all situations

BTW (and here it comes - I'm putting on the asbestos underwear), I did join
NCI a long time ago. I simply cannot justify the necessity of cw. It has
been pointed out that in the event of a electromagnetic pulse due to a
nuclear blast, most, if not all, modern gear (computers included) would be
toasted. Yes, perhaps the tube stuff would survive, but I suspect that
would be the least of anyone's problems if they were in the area affected by
the emp. Most likely they would not be incoming missiles, they'd be planted
somewhere by terrorists and if you were to experience emp, you'd likely be
toast seconds later by the blast and nuclear radiation anyways.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


"Brian" wrote in message
om...

Hans, though it pains me to do so, I would suggest censuring amateurs
such as DICK, Larry, Steve, Bruice, Kelly, and Jim as they continually
put forth the idea that an amateur that is not versed in Morse is an
incomplete amateur. Nevermind that this amateur can do PSK31 and
FSTV.

Everyone knows that a picture is worth a thousand words, so if Jim can
send a thousand real words (not ARRL numbergrams or Q-signals) in the
space of one FSTV image, ... maybe he shouldn't be censured. Just
maybe. Get back with me if he passes.

Furthermore they exhibit a throwback mentality, which just annoys me.
OK, you've got your marching orders, as far as you can march on a
boat. So be off with you, Master Chief.

Brian/N0iMD


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Everyone knows that a picture is worth a thousand words, so if Jim can
send a thousand real words (not ARRL numbergrams or Q-signals) in the
space of one FSTV image, ... maybe he shouldn't be censured. Just
maybe. Get back with me if he passes.

Well, let's see...

Suppose we consider an FSTV image to be composed of 367,500 pixels (525 lines
of 700 pixels each - aspect ratio 4/3, NTSC black-and-white). Suppose each
pixel contains 8 bits. We'll ignore synchronization and other overhead for the
time being.

Then sending one NTSC/FSTV image requires the transfer of at least 2,940,000
bits.

Of course this can be reduced by compression, but compression isn't allowed in
the comparison.

Sending 1000 words in Morse requires the transfer of 50,000 bits, allowing 50
bits per word (ITU standard)

Now if we try to use OOK/AM to send those bits through a 250 Hz bandwidth, the
2,940,000 bits of the single FSTV image will take 58.8 times as long to
transmit as the 50,000 bits/ 1000 words of Morse will take. Or to put it
another way, 58,800 words can be sent in the time it takes to send one FSTV
image.

That is, if the playing field is level.

It's self-evident that a radio amateur who has no Morse code skills is not a
fully qualified radio amateur, particularly for HF/MF amateur operation. That's
a plain and simple fact.

Whether that means a Morse code skills test *must* be part of the licensing
process is a matter of opinion.

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Hansl:

Yup.

1. - Return U.S. Amateur Radio licensing standards to Pre-Restructuring levels,
including 5, 13, and 20 WPM code testing for Novice, Gen/Adv, and Extra-class
licenses.

2. Tell the entire NCTA to sod off.

3. Get the ARRL to plow every dime's worth of it's net worth into a national,
televised advertising campaign. Get ham radio into the public eye, and stress
the FUN, not the public service (i.e. the work and worry).

4. Get the ARRL to enlist the assistance of any and all celebrity hams in the
accomplishment of #3 above.

5. Get the ARRL to stop pandering to the Welfare State mentality (related to
#1 above.)

73 de Larry, K3LT

worth into a national, televised advertising campaign. Get
ham radio into the public eye, and stress the FUN, not the
public service (i.e. the work and worry).

4. Get the ARRL to enlist the assistance of any and all
celebrity hams in the accomplishment of #3 above.

5. Get the ARRL to stop pandering to the Welfare State
mentality (related to #1 above.)

73 de Larry, K3LT

Larry,

I don't care about what you think. I am tired of trolls
like Charles that respond with hostility to newbie questions
as he often does on the packet newsgroups.

Don't you think it is time to act a little more courteous?
If you don't have anything to say then do not say anything.
Furthermore, if you do not like the amatuer service then
go online to the ULS and resign.

Are you afraid of taking the measly 5 WPM code test over
again, if you change your mind?

Do you drive a truck all day with a wireless connection
and laptop? There are so many vile and wasteful posts
by you in addition to the others. Just cool down for
awhile

Bill

Larry,

This is sort of what I have been saying all along. There are plenty of
people out there that might be interested, (regardless of the state of
testing methods and requirements) but are unaware that amateur radio even
exists!!!!
Of course the argument that "kids" are running to internet is true. Ya
can't run to something if you didn't know it existed in the first
place......

I don't know if they should plow every dime, but there definitely needs to
be a good percentage of the annual budget for PROMOTION, or a good offense
to use a sports term. The other funds other than expenses of doing
business, should obviously be for defense, i.e methods of alerting FCC
officials as well as elected members of the congress and senate as they DO
have influence on the various departments/commisions etc. including the FCC.

This should not only be an ARRL effort but it should also extend to other
organizations as well as on the immediate local level. I have said it
before and I will say it again, I bet for somewhere under $100,000, I (or
others) could make wonderful PSA commercial, and even a full 30 minute show
that could be place on a medium that could be aired over radio and
television, make enough copies of these to get to the radio and television
stations, and cover the cost of shipping to them as well for that amount.
100 grand is a smaller chunk of change, looking at the big picture. Radio
and television are REQUIRED to air a certain percentage of these PSA's of
their broadcast day.




3. Get the ARRL to plow every dime's worth of it's net worth into a
national,
televised advertising campaign. Get ham radio into the public eye, and
stress
the FUN, not the public service (i.e. the work and worry).


Excellent idea. And using a good cross-section of existing celebrity hams,
as well as getting other people that are celebrities involved and licensed
as well would be a good thing too.


4. Get the ARRL to enlist the assistance of any and all celebrity hams in
the
accomplishment of #3 above.



--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!)
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
... --. .... - . .-. ...

"Unclaimed Mysteries" wrote in message
ink.net...

Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Better pay.

Oh come on, now! Cut me a little SLACK!

Hams could never be paid enough for what they do. They're "priceless". - And
that's no joke!

Charles Brabham, N5PVL