Whaddya think folks?
 

Ham radio's golden age was the 1950s & early 1960s. It has
been in a steady decline ever since. The ARRL & the FCC have
facilitated the decline, for different reasons. If you practiced har
radio in the 50s-early 60s, then you know what I am saying is
correct.

OM

Your correct

From:

Anonymous poster. No-one accuses this person of being a coward even after
expressing strong biased opinion.

Welcome each and every new ham into the hobby with open arms --
after all, he's a brother (or she's a sister) who has taken the time
to study for and pass the written test, even if he doesn't have the
code.

Ah god...been there and done that. These were guys that were 25
year veterans of cb. They are smart asses...I tried to elmer
hem...they wouldnt listen.

Poster provides a reason, not to elmer CBers.

They get on the area 2 meter repeaters
and use their cb handles and 10 codes.

Language dielect differences. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with using
10-4 codes on voice modes, except that its using unnecessary codewords.

Most of them are extra class
to make matters worse.

So, they passed the code test. I thought anyone that passed the code test is
more respectful, better operators, and more skilled technically. Now you are
saying this is not true?


They have run all the older hams off the 2
meter band here in wv and east ky.

If all the older hams left, then only the younger ones remained?

But yes like a fool I welcomed
them into my home. Went to the classes and talked about ham radio
to them. But they are still just hardcore cbers. Its not like this
everywhere in the country but there is enough of this scattered
through the country to give most of us a sign of things to come.

Ham radio is a technical hobby, NOT a culture. You seem to forget that.
Otherwise you would not be referring to licenced amateurs as hardcore cbers.

No
ham radio will not die or come to an end because of these
types...but this is really what the code-nocode fuss is about.

Its about cbers. Really?

There's
thousands of us that have got a taste of these fools and dont want
any more of them. I dont want to be in the extra portion of any band
and hear 10-4. I dont want some idiot that just came off cb tuning
on top of me and whistling into his mic...but its happening and has
been for the last 2 years since the code was dropped to 5wpm.

I don't want to hear dots and dashes. I'd much rather hear conversation.

Now you can scream about elmering and
all that...but like i said i tried...and these fools are unelmerable.

Speak normal language like most people. Its not "elmering", its teaching.

And how are you going to attract people with technical interests to the hobby?
The people with EE degrees will realize, by your comparison to cbers, that hams
like code and dislike technically inclined people. And one with an EE degree is
likely to be insulted by what you are saying, and not want to join the hobby.

When they looked at my full wave loop they laughed and said their
cb antennas would work better. One looked at my 2 element 5
band quad at 65 feet and said his moonraker was a better antenna.

I doubt that. You probably made that up. Also, you probably made up the story
about how people tuning on top of you increased after the code speed was
dropped.

Soon
we'll all have to pay the price for most of you wanting to do away
with the code.

No faith in the individual. What are you, a communist?

Thats it in a nutshell.

From a nut.

"OM" wrote:

Ham radio's golden age was the 1950s & early 1960s. It has
been in a steady decline ever since. The ARRL & the FCC have
facilitated the decline, for different reasons. If you practiced har
radio in the 50s-early 60s, then you know what I am saying is
correct.


What a bunch of depressing malcontents in this newsgroup. I just read
through this newsgroup and if someone isn't crying about the code test,
someone else is crying about the written tests. Thrown into all this is
endless gripes about ARRL and the FCC. Now, we have someone talking about
the "golden" past like we can all just snap our fingers and go back to that
supposedly perfect time.

Ham radio is, and will always be, just what you make of it, people. If you
choose to focus on the worst aspects of anything, that's all you're going to
see. However, I suspect there is as many good things about ham radio today,
and as many good people in ham radio today, as there was during any other
time period. Regardless, this today is all we have. Either make the best of
it or perhaps you should find another hobby.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article et, "Dwight
Stewart" writes:

Now, we have someone talking about
the "golden" past like we can all just snap our fingers and go back to that
supposedly perfect time.

1950s & early 1960s, huh? Well, that was a time when surplus was plentiful and
cheap, Generals and Conditionals had full privileges, homebrewing was a lot
more common and there was reportedly a lot less nonsense on the bands.
Anti-antenna CC&Rs were unknown and there was little competition from other
electronic avocations.

However, there was a dark side back then:

- the new medium of television brought with it the spectre of TVI. Evn the
cleanest rigs often tore up the neighbor's reception something awful, due to
fundamental overload or audio rectification. Many sets back then had terrible
design flaws like 21 MHz IF strips and inadequate shielding. And just try
telling your irate neighbor that his new $500 marvel was not technically
perfect...

- Manufactured ham equipment was big, heavy, and expensive. High powered stuff
even more so. Let's not even get into the vagaries of tuning up and the damage
you could do if you messed up the procedure. The prices in the old mags and
catalogs look cheap until you factor inflation. Many folks homebrewed or
converted surplus out of sheer necessity. $1000 would buy a nice station back
then, when a $5000 annual income was solidly middle class. Figure 20% of your
annual gross salary today...

- At the beginning of that "golden" time, "phone" usually meant "AM". (There
was some SSB as early as 1933, and lots more after WW2, but AM was still king
for a while). AM meant bands full of 6-8 kHz wide signals and heterodynes. AM
was simple to implement but not inexpensive even at moderate power due to the
modulation power needed. At end of that period, SSB had pretty much taken over
HF 'phone. In between, a lot of nastiness had flowed back and forth over which
mode was "better".

- The only data mode hams could use was 60 wpm Baudot RTTY, using mechanical
teleprinters that were far too expensive for most hams to buy new. MARS and
surplus were the usual sources, and once the machine was obtained you needed to
build a TU and other interface gear.

- No repeaters. No personal computers. No WARC bands. No legal phone patching.
No VE sessions. No true transceivers until the late '50s. No vanity calls for
99% of hams.

- There were only 100,000 US hams at the beginning of that time and 250,000 at
the end.

And yet, hams had a lot of fun.

Ham radio is, and will always be, just what you make of it, people. If you
choose to focus on the worst aspects of anything, that's all you're going to
see. However, I suspect there is as many good things about ham radio today,
and as many good people in ham radio today, as there was during any other
time period. Regardless, this today is all we have. Either make the best of
it or perhaps you should find another hobby.

WELL SAID!

I'll add this:

One of the great strengths of amateur radio is that it offers a very wide range
of activities to a wide range of people. And one of the great weaknesses of
amateur radio is that it offers a very wide range of activities to a wide range
of people.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...
Mike Coslo wrote in message
...
Erich Voobner wrote:



Per qrz.com, N2EY d.o.b. April 24, 1954
N2EY, another in a long line of Bull****ters, who
"personally" experienced ham radio in the1950s.
One thing that has never changed in ham radio, the
hobby has no shortage of bull****ters and wannabes.

So he had to be a ham at that time to know what hams were using?
An interest in history could fit the bill here. He's only a couple
months older than me, and I also knew a lot of what he posted. And I
wasn't a Ham until 1999.

I *was* all over the bands in the early/mid '50s and I'm here to tell
all you newbies what this "Golden Age" BS was actually like in
comparison to the ham radio we have today in one quick broad-brush
capsulization: If I had turn the clock back and "do" ham radio like we
had in those days my ticket would have landed in the dumpster three
decades ago.

'Twas the Medieval Age of radio, a one notch improvement beyond the
Dark Age of radio.


- Mike KB3EIA -

w3rv

Heh heh...my grampaw used to be one of those folks who lived in
yesteryears--all rosey and wonderful. Yep, life sure was a lot better back
then, no highways, no good medical knowledge, etc. And, just as you Brian,
I'm sure there's many who feel just like you do. I feel that way just
thinking about it :o

Kim W5TIT

"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...



Believe it. The top gun rcvrs in those days with even half decent
selectivity were built by Collins and cost 7-8 weeks worth of an
average engineer's entire paychecks. Today much better rcvrs are
available for 10-12 *days* worth of his/her paychecks. Radio kids had
it really miserable, it took me a whole summer to earn enough money to
buy a monumental crapper S-40B rcvr from Sears. Seven QSOs at a time?
No problem! Had the same selectivity characteristics as one of today's
$10-20 throwaway pocket AM/FM broadcast rcvrs. Maybe worse. Ya could
hear a dozen or so stations when the band was really cooking, half
were real signals and the other half were images & intermod products.
Then came the drift . . "Golden Days" my ass . . !



w3rv

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about it.

Dan/W4NTI

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article et, "Dwight
Stewart" writes:


Now, we have someone talking about
the "golden" past like we can all just snap our fingers and go back to that
supposedly perfect time.


1950s & early 1960s, huh? Well, that was a time when surplus was plentiful
and
cheap, Generals and Conditionals had full privileges, homebrewing was a lot
more common and there was reportedly a lot less nonsense on the bands.
Anti-antenna CC&Rs were unknown and there was little competition from other
electronic avocations.

However, there was a dark side back then:

How about this for a reason, Jim?

I take it you mean "why some folks call it a golden age"...

Many of the people complaining about
how good it used to be have been hams for a long time.

I've got 36 years next month.

Some of the
youthful enthusiasm has gone away, and now they are perhaps a little
bored with it.

Not me. I'm looking forward to the next 36 years.

Plus the creeping crankies start to set in, and you have
a ripe field for "It ain't as good as it used to be" syndrome to set in.

I think *most* humans have a built-in memory mechanism that tends to remember
the good things more than the bad ones. (Otherwise most women would never have
a second child!) Also, we know how the past turned out, while we don't know how
the future will. So there's a natural tendency to pretty up the past.

That doesn't mean that all eras are the same. Maybe it really WAS a "golden
age". Certainly some things in ham radio were better back then. And some things
are better now. We can learn a lot from those times. The good things can be
preserved and the bad things improved.

Nothing is ever as good as it used to be! And never was.

"The good old days weren't always good
Tomorrow's not as bad as it seems" - Billy Joel

"And the seasons, they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return, we can only look
Behind to to where we came
And go round and round and round in the Circle Game" - Joni Mitchell



73 de Jim, N2EY

In article . net, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2 years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and antenna set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew which bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation. They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating practices before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start making S-40s,
so what's the solution?

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...



Believe it. The top gun rcvrs in those days with even half decent
selectivity were built by Collins and cost 7-8 weeks worth of an
average engineer's entire paychecks. Today much better rcvrs are
available for 10-12 *days* worth of his/her paychecks. Radio kids had
it really miserable, it took me a whole summer to earn enough money to
buy a monumental crapper S-40B rcvr from Sears. Seven QSOs at a time?
No problem! Had the same selectivity characteristics as one of today's
$10-20 throwaway pocket AM/FM broadcast rcvrs. Maybe worse. Ya could
hear a dozen or so stations when the band was really cooking, half
were real signals and the other half were images & intermod products.
Then came the drift . . "Golden Days" my ass . . !



w3rv

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about it.

There's an element of truth in that I guess but there are much younger
ops out there today who are real hotshots and who didn't go thru the
masochistic nonsense us OFs had to put up with.

The biggest benefit I got out of participating in that scene was to
pointedly drive home my need to acquire an education which I could
leverage into a higher than average income. So that I could eventually
afford Collins gear. Which is exactly what I did. Incentives in ham
radio did *not* start with Incentive Licensing in 1968 . . .


Dan/W4NTI

w3rv

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator.
It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about
it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year
license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2
years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and antenna
set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious
time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew which
bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation. They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating practices
before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start making
S-40s,
so what's the solution?

73 de Jim, N2EY

That was the beginning of the 'dumbing down' process. We can thank Dick
Bash for his books on really tearing a hole in the fabric of the service.

Then when Heathkit folded its tent and went away was the final blow to the
golden age of ham radio.

From that point on it has been downhill, more and more bitching and moaning
about the code requirement. Making the test easier....more numbers. etc.
etc.

What is the answer Jim? Danged if I know. But what I do know is I am
going to return to my roots in ham radio. While I can still do so
physically, where gentlemen and ladies still exist and where I feel
welcome. That place is safe from the infringement of morons and clowns.

And you know where that is.

Dan/W4NTI

"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
m...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...



Believe it. The top gun rcvrs in those days with even half decent
selectivity were built by Collins and cost 7-8 weeks worth of an
average engineer's entire paychecks. Today much better rcvrs are
available for 10-12 *days* worth of his/her paychecks. Radio kids had
it really miserable, it took me a whole summer to earn enough money to
buy a monumental crapper S-40B rcvr from Sears. Seven QSOs at a time?
No problem! Had the same selectivity characteristics as one of today's
$10-20 throwaway pocket AM/FM broadcast rcvrs. Maybe worse. Ya could
hear a dozen or so stations when the band was really cooking, half
were real signals and the other half were images & intermod products.
Then came the drift . . "Golden Days" my ass . . !



w3rv

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator.
It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about
it.

There's an element of truth in that I guess but there are much younger
ops out there today who are real hotshots and who didn't go thru the
masochistic nonsense us OFs had to put up with.

The biggest benefit I got out of participating in that scene was to
pointedly drive home my need to acquire an education which I could
leverage into a higher than average income. So that I could eventually
afford Collins gear. Which is exactly what I did. Incentives in ham
radio did *not* start with Incentive Licensing in 1968 . . .


Dan/W4NTI


Thats right, my incentive was in 1961 when my mother paid for my ticket to
Pittsburg PA and went along to take my General test.

"We ain't doing this again Danny, you better pass it the first time". I
did. At age 14.

Dan/W4NTI

w3rv

In article t, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator.
It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about
it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year
license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2
years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and antenna
set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious
time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew which
bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation. They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating practices
before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start making
S-40s,
so what's the solution?

73 de Jim, N2EY

That was the beginning of the 'dumbing down' process. We can thank Dick
Bash for his books on really tearing a hole in the fabric of the service.

Yup. And FCC refused to go after him, even though Phil Kane and others had the
goods on the guy.

Then when Heathkit folded its tent and went away was the final blow to the
golden age of ham radio.

Ikensu killed Heathkit and others. When a TS-520 cost about $600 complete, who
was gonna pay over $500 for an HW-101 and power supply?

From that point on it has been downhill, more and more bitching and moaning
about the code requirement. Making the test easier....more numbers. etc.
etc.

What is the answer Jim?

Comments to the FCC, for one thing. Comments for what we want and against what
we don't. On every petition, proposal, RM, NPRM, NOI or whatever alphabet soup
comes along. ECFS makes it easy. Maybe we won't win but they will not be able
to say there was no opposition.

Setting an example is another. Walk the talk. Build the rigs, put up the
antennas, keep the bands hopping. Write articles for QST and other mags. Give
talks at ham clubs. Do a station on FD for the local club. Etc.

Danged if I know. But what I do know is I am
going to return to my roots in ham radio. While I can still do so
physically, where gentlemen and ladies still exist and where I feel
welcome. That place is safe from the infringement of morons and clowns.

And you know where that is.

Sure. It's a place I never left.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
. com...
(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better
operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think
about it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a
permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year
license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either
upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2
years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that
they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and
antenna set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious
time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew
which bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation.
They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating
practices before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start
making S-40s,
so what's the solution?

Merge the Novice and Tech Plus classes into a new class and give the
new class the privileges of both. Along with moving what are now the
HF Novice bands down to the XX.025s with a 100-200W max power out.
Wouldn't hurt anything and it might work.

Sounds good but doesn't go far enough.

How about this:

1) Three classes of license: Basic, Intermediate, Full (change the
names if you don't like them - Third, Second, First, Novice,
General, Extra, whatever)

2) HF/MF bands split into subbands by mode and split again by
license class. Some bands may be split by mode only.
Bottom of each band is CW only, middle is CW/digital, top is
phone/image. Percentage division about 20%/30%/50% (varies with
band). "Digital" includes digital voice modes if bandwidth under
1 kHz.

3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question exam on regs,
procedures, and safety. Very little technical and RF exposure
stuff. Main objective is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics
get 200-50 watts on HF/MF and 25 watts or so on VHF/UHF (power
level is below the point where RF exposure evaluation required).
Modes are CW, analog voice, PSK31, RTTY and many of the other
common data modes like packet. Basics cannot be VEs, control
ops for repeaters, or club trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF
and about half of HF/MF spectrum, including parts of all
subbands-by-mode. Basic is meant as the entry level. Easy to
get, lots of privs, yet there's still a reason to upgrade.

4) "Intermediate" license test is more complex 50-60 question exam
on regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Intermediates
get 300-400 watts on all bands, all modes. Intermediates can be
VEs after qualification (see below), control ops for repeaters,
and club trustees. Intermediates get all VHF/UHF and about
three quarters (or more) of HF/MF spectrum. Intermediate requires
at least one year experience as a Basic.

5) "Full" license test is quite complex 100-120 question exam on
regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Mostly technical,
with some regs to cover expanded privs. Fulls get all
privileges, modes, bands, etc. except that Fulls can be VEs
only after qualification (see below). Full license requires
at least one year as an Intermediate.

6) All licenses are 10 year and fully renewable/modifiable. No
age requirements or limits.

7) Basics have six-character calls, Intermediates have five- or
six-character calls, and Fulls have four-, five-, or
six-character calls. Nobody has to give up an existing callsign.

8) Separate 30-35 question test for VE qualification, open to
Intermediates and Fulls, which allows them to be VEs. Existing
VEs are grandfathered.

9) Existing Novices, Techs and Tech Pluses become Basics,
existing Generals and Advanceds become Intermediates, and
existing Extras become Fulls. Existing hams can continue to
use their current privileges as long as they retain license
documents showing their old license class.

10) Experience requirement is not waived for existing hams to
upgrade, but their time in existing classes counts.

End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is
envisioned as a 21st century version of the Novice) and has
reasonable but meaningful steps to reach full privileges.
Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about
one S-unit apart. Nobody loses any privileges. There are only
three license classes and four written tests, so FCC doesn't
have more work.

Example of new privileges:

80/75 meters
3500-3575 CW only
3575-3750 CW/data
3750-4000 CW/analog phone/image

Basic: 3525-3625 and 3900-4000
Intermediate: 3525-3750 and 3850-4000
Full: entire band



I like it Jim. I suggested to FCC years ago to go with a 3 tier license
structure. My major difference was to make the diverse modes a 'add on' to
the license. Instead of power restrictions.

Would be a lot easier to regulate that way. Having to test for a 'add on
endorsement' would still maintain the technical aspects of the ARS. And
provide a way of continued learning.

Just a thought.

Dan/W4NTI

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article t, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

Thats right, my incentive was in 1961 when my mother paid for my ticket to
Pittsburg PA and went along to take my General test.

Just out of curiosity, Dan - where were you living in '61 that made Pittsburgh
the nearest FCC office?

"We ain't doing this again Danny, you better pass it the first time". I
did. At age 14.

I had it easier 'cause I was just a subway ride from the Philly FCC office.
Short walk at each end and a pair of PTC tokens for the trip. Parental units
were *not* involved. Tech and Advanced in '68 at 14 and Extra two years later.

You'll like this bit:

The way they ran the Philly exams was that they did the code first and then the
writtens. And they started with 20 wpm. Better be there on time or you missed
it.

So the day I'm there for the big E, the examiner comes out right at 8 AM and
asks the assembled multitude if anybody is taking 20 wpm code. Turns out I'm
not only the youngest one there but I'm the only one trying for Extra.

Examiner and I go in the exam room, he sets up the code machine, phones, pad
and pencil, etc. You know the drill. Says all I need is one minute solid out of
five. I put on the cans and he starts the machine. I have no trouble copying,
so he comes around and looks obver my shoulder while I write in block letters.
I figure I've got it licked, right?

After about 90 seconds he turns off the code machine. Uh-oh, I think,
something's not right, I've never heard of a test being interrupted like that.

"Pretty easy, huh, kid?"
"Uh, yeah, I guess".
"It should be - that was 13. Here's 20"

And he changed drive spindles and the real test began.

I'll never know if he just forgot to change speeds, if he wanted to make sure I
could do 13 first, or if he wanted to rattle the kid's cage a bit. Didn't
matter, I passed.

Then 20 per with a straight key until he said "OK, kid".

You've been there, Dan, you're just 7 years ahead of me.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Dick Carroll;" wrote:

Dwight Stewart wrote:
Ham radio is, and will always be, just what you make
of it, people.

Well DUHHHHH!! Dwight!


Juging from the complaints here, its clearly not that obvious, Dick.


You forgot to mention that follows what FCC
allows *anyone* to make of it.....


The rules haven't changed that much, Dick. It's still the same ham radio,
with many of the same people.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"N2EY" wrote

3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question
exam on regs, procedures, and safety. Very little
technical and RF exposure stuff. Main objective
is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics get
200-50 watts on HF/MF and 25 watts or so on
VHF/UHF (power level is below the point where
RF exposure evaluation required). Modes are
CW, analog voice, PSK31, RTTY and many of
the other common data modes like packet. Basics
cannot be VEs, control ops for repeaters, or club
trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF and about
half of HF/MF spectrum, including parts of all
subbands-by-mode. Basic is meant as the entry
level. Easy to get, lots of privs, yet there's still a
reason to upgrade. (snip)

(snip)

9) Existing Novices, Techs and Tech Pluses
become Basics, (snip)


What is the justification for sharply cutting back on existing Tech and
Tech Plus privileges? We can presently use up to 1500 watts on VHF/UHF. You
suggest a 25 watt limit. We can currently be repeater control ops. You
suggest we shouldn't. We currently have no limits on operating modes. You
propose limits. Since there have been no serious problems reported in any of
these areas, I don't see a justification for any of these changes.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message nk.net...
"Brian" wrote in message
m...
(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator.
It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think
about it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year
license
until 1967, when it became two years.

Had to. You waited 6 months for your license and you couldn't operate
til it arrived.

You are so full of mis-information Brian, have you considered a lobotomy to
remove the tumor?

The wait from taking the test until it came in the mail was 6 to 8 weeks.
That was the 'official' time the FCC gave you when that question was asked.

It sometimes made it in 4. It took mine 6 1/2 weeks.

Dan/W4NTI

Sorry, meant weeks. Mine came in 8 or 9 (weeks). I think the VE
might have held on to it until the Novice class ended. I graduated
ahead of the class.

In article . net, "Dwight
Stewart" writes:

"N2EY" wrote

3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question
exam on regs, procedures, and safety. Very little
technical and RF exposure stuff. Main objective
is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics get
200-50 watts on HF/MF and 25 watts or so on
VHF/UHF (power level is below the point where
RF exposure evaluation required). Modes are
CW, analog voice, PSK31, RTTY and many of
the other common data modes like packet. Basics
cannot be VEs, control ops for repeaters, or club
trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF and about
half of HF/MF spectrum, including parts of all
subbands-by-mode. Basic is meant as the entry
level. Easy to get, lots of privs, yet there's still a
reason to upgrade. (snip)

(snip)

9) Existing Novices, Techs and Tech Pluses
become Basics, (snip)


What is the justification for sharply cutting back on existing Tech and
Tech Plus privileges?

You snipped the second sentence of 9), Dwight. Here it is again:

9) Existing Novices, Techs and Tech Pluses become Basics,
existing Generals and Advanceds become Intermediates, and
existing Extras become Fulls. Existing hams can continue to
use their current privileges as long as they retain license
documents showing their old license class.

"Existing hams can continue to use their current privileges as long as they
retain license documents showing their old license class."

Just like Tech Pluses who have been renewed as Techs can still use HF, and
anybody with an old Novice or code-tested-Tech license document gets Element 1
credit. If FCC accepts the idea for those uses, why not for the above?

IOW, no existing ham loses any privileges.

73 de Jim, N2EY






We can presently use up to 1500 watts on VHF/UHF. You
suggest a 25 watt limit. We can currently be repeater control ops. You
suggest we shouldn't. We currently have no limits on operating modes. You
propose limits. Since there have been no serious problems reported in any of
these areas, I don't see a justification for any of these changes.

I don't see a justification for any of these changes.


Dwight Stewart (W5NE

Of course you dont, you want a FREE HANDOUT License.

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...
. . . .

End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is
envisioned as a 21st century version of the Novice) and has
reasonable but meaningful steps to reach full privileges.
Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about
one S-unit apart. Nobody loses any privileges. There are only
three license classes and four written tests, so FCC doesn't
have more work.

Example of new privileges:

80/75 meters
3500-3575 CW only
3575-3750 CW/data
3750-4000 CW/analog phone/image

Basic: 3525-3625 and 3900-4000
Intermediate: 3525-3750 and 3850-4000
Full: entire band

That's all well and good James and I'd support your basics but what
you're suggesting is a radical, complete top-to-bottom restructuring.

Long overdue. The basic structure we have now dates to 1951.

Much more so than any we've seen in the past seventy-some years.
Versus some Band-Aids on what already exists. With the FCC we have
today we'd be lucky to get even a Band-Aid or two let alone a complete
rework of HF ham radio. We're allowed to dream but then comes cold
hard reality.

If we don't ask we'll never get. FCC isn't going to come up with any new
ideas.
What can they do - say no?

Yeah, absolutely. They'll say "we've already put enough work into
diddling with this stuff in the past few years, come back in 5-10
years when we have a better picture of the effects of what we've
already done become apparent". Which is typical FCC behavior when it
comes to major restructurings going back decades.

OK, fine.

But how can it hurt to ask?

73 de Jim, N2EY

"WA8ULX" wrote:

Of course you dont, you want a FREE HANDOUT License.


Bruce, I've having a hard time even believing you have a license. Based
on your poorly written messages in this newsgroup and others, I don't see
how you were literate enough to even understand the license exams? Clearly,
you're one of those who had to memorize the question pool instead of
understanding the content. Now that you have a license, you still don't seem
to understand the concepts behind ham radio - the concept of "goodwill"
obviously went right over your head.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Brian" wrote:

No, no, no. Bruce didn't memorize anything. He took
the exam on a lark, w/o studying, and scored 100%.
Furthermore, he did it in under 8 minutes, and collected
$250 from a couple of "CB Plussers" who bet he
couldn't do it.


Well, if true, I'm certainly impressed. But, of course, I have serious
doubts about that claim. In fact, I would consider it almost impossible (and
Bruce certainly doesn't seem like the type of person who could go around
doing the impossible). Heck, it would take almost eight minutes for even the
fastest reader to read over the the exam questions. And, considering some of
the questions in the pool (band limits, etc), I doubt one could pass without
at least some study (even if the study is nothing more than experience).


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Same here as well, but the basic would get full privileges except power,
limited to 200 watts (who needs much more than that anyways) on only 2
bands, one HF and one VHF/UHF band. At least I remember I had some thought
like that.....


--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!)
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
... --. .... - . .-. ...




I like it Jim. I suggested to FCC years ago to go with a 3 tier license
structure. My major difference was to make the diverse modes a 'add on'
to
the license. Instead of power restrictions.

Would be a lot easier to regulate that way. Having to test for a 'add on
endorsement' would still maintain the technical aspects of the ARS. And
provide a way of continued learning.

Just a thought.

Dan/W4NTI

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote:

Some time back, I took a *practice* Extra test online. No
preparation. To make it more of a sporting course I did all
the math in my head - no calculator, no scratch paper. Took
me about 7-1/2 minutes start to finish, (snip)


Yep, but the online tests are easier. With most of them, all you have to
do click an answer directly under the question, not shade a small block on
an answer card with a pencil. All that (reading the questions, answers, and
filling in the answer card) couldn't likely be done in eight minutes. Of
course, anything is possible, so I won't say it isn't (which is why I said
it was "almost" impossible). But I suspect you would agree such an
accomplishment would certainly be very rare.


Did it ever occur to you that his persona here could be an act?


Nope. It's too consistent across many newsgroups over a relatively long
period of time. If it's an act, he should be in Hollywood.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message hlink.net...
"N2EY" wrote:

Some time back, I took a *practice* Extra test online. No
preparation. To make it more of a sporting course I did all
the math in my head - no calculator, no scratch paper. Took
me about 7-1/2 minutes start to finish, (snip)

Yep, but the online tests are easier.

Same question pools, though.

With most of them, all you have to
do click an answer directly under the question, not shade a small block on
an answer card with a pencil.

Same difference to me.

All that (reading the questions, answers, and
filling in the answer card) couldn't likely be done in eight minutes.

I could do it. And I'm no expert.

Of
course, anything is possible, so I won't say it isn't (which is why I said
it was "almost" impossible).

Go down that road far enough and you will invent the Infinite
Improbability Generator.

But I suspect you would agree such an
accomplishment would certainly be very rare.

I dunno. I know I could do it. Maybe I wouldn't get every single
question right when going full speed like that, but I could pass.

Did it ever occur to you that his persona here could be an act?

Nope. It's too consistent across many newsgroups over a relatively long
period of time. If it's an act, he should be in Hollywood.

I think it's an act, invented for the purpose. But even if it's not an
act, the written tests are not spelling or grammar tests.
"Intelligence" isn't a single-dimension quality. A person can be
brilliant in one area and have serious developmental problems in
others.

In fact, if you deny that someone who writes like Bruce could ace the
Extra written in eight minuites, then, by the same logic, you have to
deny the claim that someone could be brilliant in electronics but have
a difficult time with 5 wpm Morse Code.

but i think its all a act He puts on

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message hlink.net...
"N2EY" wrote:

Some time back, I took a *practice* Extra test online. No
preparation. To make it more of a sporting course I did all
the math in my head - no calculator, no scratch paper. Took
me about 7-1/2 minutes start to finish, (snip)

Inneresting how Rev Jim always protects Bruce's outlandish stories.

Yep, but the online tests are easier. With most of them, all you have to
do click an answer directly under the question, not shade a small block on
an answer card with a pencil. All that (reading the questions, answers, and
filling in the answer card) couldn't likely be done in eight minutes. Of
course, anything is possible, so I won't say it isn't (which is why I said
it was "almost" impossible). But I suspect you would agree such an
accomplishment would certainly be very rare.

Did it ever occur to you that his persona here could be an act?

Nope. It's too consistent across many newsgroups over a relatively long
period of time. If it's an act, he should be in Hollywood.

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Wait a minute. Didn't he play a part in Dukes of Hazard?

"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...
Mike Coslo wrote in message
...
If I had turn the clock back and "do" ham radio like we
had in those days my ticket would have landed in the dumpster three
decades ago.

'Twas the Medieval Age of radio, a one notch improvement beyond the
Dark Age of radio.


- Mike KB3EIA -

w3rv



Now, now, it wasn't all THAT bad! I take advantage of
whatever ham radio offers me NOW, and remember what it was like back in
1967. Yes, we had tube trans-
mitters and a trunkload of cables, relays, dynamotors, and back breaking
sets that I couldn't even heft now, but
it was still fun. That's because we didn't KNOW any better. Had you told
me in '68 that we would have radios
the likes of the 706, I'd have chortled "no way". There were none of the
Analyzers and we used grid dip meters,
amp meters (to measure antenna current), and even florescent light bulbs for
"instruments". We still had fun!
I was a CAP member in those days, not a ham yet. Ever
since I was a kid, I listened to my Dad's 1940s Philco
shortwave set--Mom used to say it made a great babysitter because I would
sit for hours and try to tune
in those "Donald Duck" sounds, and not understanding why I could not tune it
in. I didn't know what a BFO was, but I was still fascinated with it. I
got the crap
shocked out of me with capacitors and plate current and
dynamotors (and survived), And I had fun. The license
was not quite convenient when in high school because my
family tended to live out in the boonies and Dad had no interest in taking
me to a Field Office to take the test. There were no hams around in the
middle of nowhere where we lived. Still, I learned, made mistakes, and
and had fun. Got a lot of "education" with CAP, and
eventually got my ticket in '89 after I was grown and married. I had a lot
of good elmers in later life and learned also how NOT to shock the stuffings
outta me. And I
am still having fun! The goofballs I encounter I just ignore
and don't get dragged into cuss fights and infantile behav-
ior. Because I was trained as a CAP radio operator before I got into ham
radio (I was very aware of it, BTW), I tend to operate in a more structured
manner. I can have a ball chatting with friends and experimenting with
projects. Suffering a fool with a radio that gets his
jollies kerchunking repeaters and QRMing HF QSOs is
not for me!

I just enjoy what I have now, marvel at the tech advantages that seemed
impossible in the '60s and remember fondly those old glow-in-the-dark rigs
that seemed so "right" way back when........ But it wasn't THAT bad! LOL!


73

Jerry
K4KWH

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
thlink.net...
"N2EY" wrote:

Some time back, I took a *practice* Extra test online. No
preparation. To make it more of a sporting course I did all
the math in my head - no calculator, no scratch paper. Took
me about 7-1/2 minutes start to finish, (snip)

Inneresting how Rev Jim always protects Bruce's outlandish stories.

Extras band together. They have to. Otherwise they hang separately.



Yep, but the online tests are easier. With most of them, all you have to
do click an answer directly under the question, not shade a small block on
an answer card with a pencil. All that (reading the questions, answers, and
filling in the answer card) couldn't likely be done in eight minutes. Of
course, anything is possible, so I won't say it isn't (which is why I said
it was "almost" impossible). But I suspect you would agree such an
accomplishment would certainly be very rare.

Did it ever occur to you that his persona here could be an act?

Nope. It's too consistent across many newsgroups over a relatively long
period of time. If it's an act, he should be in Hollywood.

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Wait a minute. Didn't he play a part in Dukes of Hazard?

Yes...as the backwoods ROAD the General Lee skidded around on...

LHA

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message thlink.net...
"N2EY" wrote:

I think it's an act, invented for the purpose. But even if it's not an
act, the written tests are not spelling or grammar tests.
"Intelligence" isn't a single-dimension quality. A person can be
brilliant in one area and have serious developmental problems in
others.


Have you read his messages (not just the ones in this newsgroup)?

Yes - too many of 'em!

I
haven't see any sign of brilliance in anything he's written, on any subject.

Nor have I. But he's doing pretty well for 305 years old, dontcha
think? ;-)

I'm not saying he's dirt dumb, just not the typical "rocket scientist" type.

It doesn't take a lot of brilliance to pass the Extra written. Just
enough right answers.

Again, if is's an act, it's a darn good one (and that's the only good thing
about it).

Of course. Bruce embarrasses the procodetest side, just like some
folks embarrass the nocodetest side.

In fact, that may be his entire game.

73 de Jim, N2EY