In article .net, "Dwight
Stewart" writes:

"Len Over 21" wrote:

Tsk, tsk, tsk..."tangents?" I was handling sines, cosines,
and tangents back in high school of 1950. Trigonometry
not a problem...always got maximum marks in such subjects.

Math is not my forte. I got through the classes, but had to struggle every
single step of the way. In fact, I still struggle with it to some extent to
this day, so I'll obviously never be anything close to an expert on it.
Perhaps I need to do what most do and simply avoid situations involving
serious math.

Heh, I have to admit that, in undergraduate classes on Calculus I, II, and
III, my grades were A, B, and barely C, respectively. A problem with
night classes and working all day yet still trying to maintain contact with
other people. :-)

In looking back at all I was required to do in actual, working electronics
design details, I NEVER had to use any math more complicated than
simple algebra and trigonometry to get all the hardware data and parts
selection. Some low-level calculus was used LATER for project reports,
on a suggestion to make the determinations "look better" for higher-
level staff who never got their hands dirty on the hardware. That
suggestion was from another higher-level staff person who DID get his
hands on the hardware whenever he could.

There's an analogy to code testing ("back to basics") and the rampant
credentialism amongst the PCTA ("have to have the certificate to be
able to do 'complicated' things)...namely this: The PCTA's "back to
basics" is like looking up log and trig values in 5-place tables and
"doing things the hard way" (to "show" something to others apparently).
I got my HP-35 scientific calculator in 1971 so that I didn't have to
waste all that time on look-ups of only 5-place values; the HP-35 came
up with 10-place values in an eyeblink. Spot-checking against the NBS
AMS 55, "Handbook of Mathematical Functions," showed that the HP
values were indeed correct to 10 places.

That same NBS monograph also explained the mathematical
approximations used to derive the original 5-place numeric values as
well as many more places. Each modern CPU in a PC or Mac has a
numeric coprocessor section that uses one of those mathematical
approximations internally...and accurate to 14 decimal digit accuracy,
not just 3 (as on a slide rule) or 5 (in 5-place tables).

An ardent PCTA devotee will now make some half-assed comment about
"it doesn't apply to HAM radio." Not directly. Having to know morse
code for a hobby activity involving radio regulation by licensing is much
more PRIMITIVE than sitting down and doing a series equation to
obtain a logarithm or other transcendental numeric value.

No doubt the ardent Credentialists in here will come up with some kind of
BS about "needing degrees" to understand it all. :-)

Len Anderson
retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person
...and never needed to assume any fake identity in here to state an opinion

"Len Over 21" wrote:

Heh, I have to admit that, in undergraduate classes
on Calculus I, II, and III, my grades were A, B, and
barely C, respectively. A problem with night classes
and working all day yet still trying to maintain contact
with other people. :-)


I never got an "A" in math. I did get an "F" once and had to take the
class over. However, the remainder of my math grades were "B" and "C," and I
was darn thrilled to get that "B" occasionally. I did just fine in all my
other classes.


(snip) Having to know morse code for a hobby activity
involving radio regulation by licensing is much more
PRIMITIVE than sitting down and doing a series equation
to obtain a logarithm or other transcendental numeric value.

No doubt the ardent Credentialists in here will come up
with some kind of BS about "needing degrees" to
understand it all. :-)


You won't get any argument from me. I probably wouldn't touch most math
today without a calculator (and most others wouldn't either). And code is a
primitive way of communicating. If that's one's cup of tea, there's
absolutely nothing wrong with that. But it is fairly absurd to continue to
require it of everyone else.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/