"Keith" wrote in message
nk.net...
I had the pleasure of watching the documentary by Michael
Moore called, "Bowling for Columbine". In the opening segment
Michael goes into a Michigan Bank and gets a free shotgun
for opening a CD account. In the documentary he discusses
the fact that the tenage mass killers bought their ammo at Kmart
and obtained guns at gun shows.
The thought occurred to me, Why in the hell can a teenager in America buy
a
weapon of mass destruction with no test or license, but to pick up a
microphone to talk he needs to obtain a license from the federal
government? I
can understand for a vehicle, but isn't it time to do away with Ham Radio
licensing in a nation in which 12,000 people are murdered by untested and
unlicensed gun owners? Just a thought.


--
Best Regards, Keith AOL IM:kilowattradio
NW Oregon Radio http://kilowatt-radio.org/
_Give SCO $699 for using Linux or the Penguin gets it._
Torvalds: _They are smoking crack._


Hey Keith...here is a box of oranges, and over there is a box of apples.
See my point?

Dan/W4NTI

"Keith" wrote in message
nk.net...
I had the pleasure of watching the documentary by Michael
Moore called, "Bowling for Columbine". In the opening segment
Michael goes into a Michigan Bank and gets a free shotgun
for opening a CD account. In the documentary he discusses
the fact that the tenage mass killers bought their ammo at Kmart
and obtained guns at gun shows.
The thought occurred to me, Why in the hell can a teenager in America buy
a
weapon of mass destruction with no test or license, but to pick up a
microphone to talk he needs to obtain a license from the federal
government? I
can understand for a vehicle, but isn't it time to do away with Ham Radio
licensing in a nation in which 12,000 people are murdered by untested and
unlicensed gun owners? Just a thought.


--
Best Regards, Keith AOL IM:kilowattradio
NW Oregon Radio http://kilowatt-radio.org/
_Give SCO $699 for using Linux or the Penguin gets it._
Torvalds: _They are smoking crack._

Another liberal mouthpiece opens his mouth and **** pours out. You and
Michael Moore are both idiots.

But anyone who visits your CB web page can see that. You are just another
wanna-be Ham Radio operator.

10-73's!

"Keith" wrote in message
nk.net...

[snip]
... isn't it time to do away with Ham Radio licensing in a nation
in which 12,000 people are murdered by untested and
unlicensed gun owners? Just a thought.

To answer your question with a single word "No."

Licensing is required by international agreements and federal
law (and for good reason).

However, the requirements for licensure should be reasonable
and rational, and while the written tests meet that criteria, the
requirement for Morse proficiency no longer does.

Carl - wk3c

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:00:21 GMT, Keith
wrote:

I had the pleasure of watching the documentary by Michael
Moore called, "Bowling for Columbine". In the opening segment
Michael goes into a Michigan Bank and gets a free shotgun
for opening a CD account. In the documentary he discusses
the fact that the tenage mass killers bought their ammo at Kmart
and obtained guns at gun shows.
The thought occurred to me, Why in the hell can a teenager in America buy a
weapon of mass destruction with no test or license, but to pick up a
microphone to talk he needs to obtain a license from the federal government? I
can understand for a vehicle, but isn't it time to do away with Ham Radio
licensing in a nation in which 12,000 people are murdered by untested and
unlicensed gun owners? Just a thought.


Hmmm. That one didn't even budge the troll-ometer. You need to do
better than that.

Howard
N3TNQ

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

However, the requirements for licensure should be reasonable
and rational, and while the written tests meet that criteria, the
requirement for Morse proficiency no longer does.

Carl - wk3c

Carl:

Jim, N2EY, just said, in so many words, that since today's amateur
radio equipment can no longer be designed, built, or serviced by
any but the tiny handful of hams who possess professional-grade
technical knowledge, skill, and facilities, that most of the technical
knowledge in the present written tests can also be eliminated as
a licensing requirement. I totally agree. In what way is it
"reasonable and rational" for someone to know Ohm's Law or
even the most basic digital theory, if they'll never have to use it
in their actual practice as a radio amateur? I say it isn't, and
nothing could prove this better than eliminating the code testing
requirements for the same reason. After all, code testing has
the effect of exposing prospective radio amateurs to what is
always going to be a practical and useful communications tool
which allows radio amateurs to practice basic radio
communication with only entry-level skill and technology.

If we eliminate the code testing requirement, we therefore
demonstrate that basic communications skills are no longer
necessary to be a licensed amateur radio operator. I, for one,
would like to think that the present syllabus of the written tests
still represents "basic communications skills." So, which will
it be? Code testing, written testing, both, or neither?

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article et, Keith
writes:

I had the pleasure of watching the documentary by Michael
Moore called, "Bowling for Columbine". In the opening segment
Michael goes into a Michigan Bank and gets a free shotgun
for opening a CD account.

Keith:

I bought the DVD. Actually, it was a Winchester .270 cal. bolt-action
rifle.

In the documentary he discusses
the fact that the tenage mass killers bought their ammo at Kmart
and obtained guns at gun shows.

Both perfectly legal activities, assuming they were old enough to
legally do so, but I think Harris and Klebold had assistance from an
older woman. What was illegal and immoral, however, is the manner
in which that ammunition was used. How is K-Mart at fault for the
misuse of a perfectly legal product which is otherwise safe (except to
violent criminals) when utilized in it's intended manner, using the
well-known safety practices associated with it's proper use? The
fact that K-Mart was willing to acquiesce to the extortionist pressure
placed upon them by Mr. Moore only serves to make one understand
why their organization is going down the tubes. They were engaged
in perfectly moral and legitimate commerce in the sale of firearms and
ammunition, but chose instead, to allow themselves to be used as
a scapegoat for the villainous actions of those who misused these
products. I have personally purchased firearms and ammunition
from K-Mart, and it has never occurred to me to shoot up a high
school with them. Is K-Mart just lucky that I'm not a violent criminal,
or was there something different about the Marlin Model 60 and
336 rifles and the .22 LR, .30-30 Winchester, and other ammo I
bought from them that caused it not to be used to kill innocent
people?

The thought occurred to me, Why in the hell can a teenager in America buy a
weapon of mass destruction with no test or license, but to pick up a
microphone to talk he needs to obtain a license from the federal government?

The truth is, he doesn't. Bootlegging is a big problem in radio. However,
like criminals who commit violent crimes with sporting firearms, it is not
the inanimate objects (firearms or radios) at fault - but the responsible
human agent who utilizes them in an improper manner. No amount of
licensing can prevent the misuse of guns, cars, radios, aircraft, or any
other potentially destructive item -- and the world is full of them. It is
up to us intelligent human beings to use these things in a proper,
moral manner. We can either decide to accept this challenge and
take the responsibility for our actions, or simply sanitize our lives of
anything that could possibly hurt us. The choice is ours. If you choose
the latter, you can start by throwing away every bar of soap in your
house. After all, if misused, a bar of Kirk's Coco Hardwater Castile
can be just as dangerous as a .22 cal. rifle.

I
can understand for a vehicle, but isn't it time to do away with Ham Radio
licensing in a nation in which 12,000 people are murdered by untested and
unlicensed gun owners? Just a thought.

What of the over 2 million people who are saved from violence each year by
the legitimate use of firearms? Or the untold thousands who benefit from
the emergency communications services provided by legal, licensed
radio amateurs? In the case of guns, the liberal media, which has an
agenda to remove the personal power given to the people to defend
themselves from violence, never allows the truth to see the light of day.
However, the benefits of amateur radio are well-known and occasionally
given publicity which does it some good. The problem of the over
12,000 victims of violent gun crime can be readily addressed by simply
enforcing existing laws, and treating criminals AS criminals and not
using the inanimate object (the gun) as the scapegoat for human
behaviour. In the true manner of a person with a liberal, socialist,
freedom-hating agenda, Mr. Moore carefully left that truth out of his
documentary. It is up to us to be intelligent enough to see through his
lies of omission, and learn the truth. The same applies to code testing,
or any other licensing requirements in the ARS.

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

However, the requirements for licensure should be reasonable
and rational, and while the written tests meet that criteria, the
requirement for Morse proficiency no longer does.

Carl - wk3c

Carl:

Jim, N2EY, just said, in so many words, that since today's amateur
radio equipment can no longer be designed, built, or serviced by
any but the tiny handful of hams who possess professional-grade
technical knowledge, skill, and facilities, that most of the technical
knowledge in the present written tests can also be eliminated as
a licensing requirement. I totally agree. In what way is it
"reasonable and rational" for someone to know Ohm's Law or
even the most basic digital theory, if they'll never have to use it
in their actual practice as a radio amateur? I say it isn't, and
nothing could prove this better than eliminating the code testing
requirements for the same reason. After all, code testing has
the effect of exposing prospective radio amateurs to what is
always going to be a practical and useful communications tool
which allows radio amateurs to practice basic radio
communication with only entry-level skill and technology.

If we eliminate the code testing requirement, we therefore
demonstrate that basic communications skills are no longer
necessary to be a licensed amateur radio operator. I, for one,
would like to think that the present syllabus of the written tests
still represents "basic communications skills." So, which will
it be? Code testing, written testing, both, or neither?

73 de Larry, K3LT

I agree,
How about it Carl, let's do away with the outdated theory crap that's
keeping a lot of engineers and kids out of out hobby. Why I know a Doctor
who would love to be a Ham, but because of the stupid, outdated theory he
can not get his license.
Who would you rather have as a Ham, a Doctor who might save your life, or
another know-it-all who knows out dated electronics theory.

Will you lead Ham Radio out of the darkness and into the light Captain Carl?
Break these shackles that bind us to the old ways! FREE RADIO FOR THE
MASSES!

10-73's!

(Of course I'm kidding, but this will be coming real soon AND YOU KNOW
THIS!)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 9/1/2003

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

However, the requirements for licensure should be reasonable
and rational, and while the written tests meet that criteria, the
requirement for Morse proficiency no longer does.

Carl - wk3c

Carl:

Jim, N2EY, just said, in so many words,

With all due respect to Jim, just because he said it doesn't make
it true. (no matter how many words he used :-)

that since today's amateur
radio equipment can no longer be designed, built, or serviced by
any but the tiny handful of hams who possess professional-grade
technical knowledge, skill, and facilities,

That's absurd ... just as those who want to (and don't have a
legitimate physical limitation that prevents it) *could* learn
Morse at some arbitrary speed, anyone who wants to (except,
someone who's truly mentally deficient) can learn the skills
necessary to design, build, and service equipment comparable
in performance to (or better than) off the shelf commercial equipment.

Even "custom ASICs" can be affordably created in the ham's
home workshop with free or inexpensive software tools that
run on any reasonable PC, using FPGAs and other programable
logic devices ... and they can do significant signal processing at
rates higher than can be done in software on a PC (though using
the PC to do some signal processing is useful and practical in
some applications).

Some of the fancy LCD displays require special manufacturing
techniques and equipment and would be prohibitively expensive for
"one off" and small quantities, but they can be replaced by a "soft"
display on a computer screen if those sorts of bells and whistles
are desired ... check out "Ham Radio Deluxe" ... one hell of a
slick control program, that's free by the way, from Simon Brown,
HB9DRV, and Peter Halpin, PE1MHO, (NCI Director Emeritus,
holder of the 1st 6m QRP (=5W) DXCC, and other awards and
omgosh ... a no-coder)
at: http://www.kns.ch/sysgem/hb9drv/HamRadioDeluxe.htm

Building and servicing are simply a matter of technique. SMT
parts can be soldered by hand with a small, low wattage iron
(even 200 pin QFPs ... I've done it many times) or with a simple
hot air reflow soldering system (you can buy one, or could build
one ... I've reflowed modest sized PCBs with a heat gun and
some care.

The techniques are different than the old "thru-hole" methods,
but they are really no more difficult and are certainly within
reach of anyone who cares to learn.

(and, amateur radio is *supposed* to encourage the learning
of useful technical skills, advancing the art, etc.)

that most of the technical
knowledge in the present written tests can also be eliminated as
a licensing requirement. I totally agree.

So, you would prefer that the amateur ranks be centered on
appliance operators (as long as they can beep fast)??? That's
the death warrant for amateur radio if it ever becomes totally
that way.

Reducing the technical skill of amateurs to your level and
keeping "Morse as king" may make you FEEL superior,
Larry, but it's really the TRUE "dumbing down" of the
amateur radio service ...

Other than as a recreational activity in the ARS (which is fine),
the world has passed Morse by.

What's needed in the "pool of trained operators" is no longer
a cadre of Morseists, but folks who have the technical
knowledge and skill to build, field, and maintain systems that
can meet the communications needs of EMS agencies ... and
that's at a level of technology far beyond OOK Morse.

In what way is it
"reasonable and rational" for someone to know Ohm's Law or
even the most basic digital theory, if they'll never have to use it
in their actual practice as a radio amateur?

Ohm's Law is a tool that can be used for many things ... biasing
circuits, figuring out what size wire gauge is necessary to carry
a given current with what voltage drop, and on and on ... and it's
a simple equation, whose permutations can be learned in about
10 minutes ... equally useful are the formulae for inductive and
capacitive reactance, resonance, etc., etc.

These are all basic things that every amateur should know and
understand. (Do they all? No. Should they? Yes!!!)

I say it isn't, and
nothing could prove this better than eliminating the code testing
requirements for the same reason.

That's absurd ...

After all, code testing has
the effect of exposing prospective radio amateurs to what is
always going to be a practical and useful communications tool
which allows radio amateurs to practice basic radio
communication with only entry-level skill and technology.

Certain chemicals are "useful" in agriculture ... should everyone
who wants to eat a salad be required to be sprayed with them
("exposed to them") against his/her will before being allowed to
do so? (Yes, it's an extreme and contrived example, but the
principle is EXACTLY the same.)

If we eliminate the code testing requirement, we therefore
demonstrate that basic communications skills are no longer
necessary to be a licensed amateur radio operator.

Larry ... most folks don't WANT to communicate via Morse.
Nothing prevents you from doing so, but to assert that everyone
must prove they can before they can do anything on HF is
pointless and counter to the interests of the future of ham radio.
(The governments of the world and even the IARU have come
to realize this ... that YOU "don't get it" is irrelevant.)

I, for one,
would like to think that the present syllabus of the written tests
still represents "basic communications skills." So, which will
it be? Code testing, written testing, both, or neither?

The sensible option ... no code testing. Adequate written testing.
That answer is obvious.

Carl - wk3c

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:00:21 GMT, Keith
wrote:

I had the pleasure of watching the documentary by Michael
Moore called, "Bowling for Columbine". In the opening segment
Michael goes into a Michigan Bank and gets a free shotgun
for opening a CD account.

And if the same shotgun is later used to rob that bank, who's fault
would you say that is?

In the documentary he discusses
the fact that the tenage mass killers bought their ammo at Kmart
and obtained guns at gun shows.

Thousands of hunters, law enforcement officers, and other legitimate,
law-abiding gun owners also buy guns at gun shows and ammo at K-Mart.



The thought occurred to me, Why in the hell can a teenager in America buy a
weapon of mass destruction with no test or license, but to pick up a
microphone to talk he needs to obtain a license from the federal government?

No he doesn't. There are several radio services in which no licenses
are required, or which are licensed by rule. Examples include CB, FRS,
Marine VHF, parts of the 49 mhz band where operation of 2-way radio
devices is covered under Part 15, and the experimenter's band down
below the AM broadcast band.

I
can understand for a vehicle, but isn't it time to do away with Ham Radio
licensing in a nation in which 12,000 people are murdered by untested and
unlicensed gun owners? Just a thought.

Your question provides its own answer since, unlike the 12,000
murderers, ham radio operators are not untested and not unlicensed.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ
Tonawanda, New York


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
http://www.usenet.com
Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

On 23 Sep 2003 00:40:54 GMT, "Dick Carroll;"
wrote:


Far better to concentrate testing on operating - to include as many
modes as feasable. INCLUDING radiotelegraphy, **the second most used
mode in ham radio**.

It occurs to me that, after "making a legitimate withdrawal" as number
one, the second most used method of obtaining money from the bank
happens to be a felony.

It also occurs to me that in sports, they refer to the player(s) who
finish anywhere below #1 as the LOSERS.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ
Tonawanda, New York

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
*** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
http://www.usenet.com
Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=