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Isnt it Funny
No-Coders have whinned about being forced to learn CW to use HF. Now we have
BPL come along, which will provide MILLIONS of people use of HF without taking a CW test. Now the No-Code Whinners are Whinning that its not fair that Millions of people in this country will be able to use HF without a CW Test. |
"WA8ULX" wrote:
No-Coders have whinned about being forced to learn CW to use HF. Now we have BPL come along, which will provide MILLIONS of people use of HF without taking a CW test. (snip) Isn't it amazing how unaware you are? Millions of people with no CW/code skills have been using HF for decades. Of course, none of them (CB'ers) are members of the licensed ham radio community. Instead, a couple hundred thousand Technicians did the right thing and "earned" a license to join the ARS, all without being offered even the basic HF operating privileges of an unlicensed CB'er. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message thlink.net...
"WA8ULX" wrote: No-Coders have whinned about being forced to learn CW to use HF. Now we have BPL come along, which will provide MILLIONS of people use of HF without taking a CW test. (snip) Isn't it amazing how unaware you are? Dwight, given Bruce's many posts here over the past few years, I cease to be amazed by anything he writes. Occasionally I am amazed at my ability to decode what he has written.... Millions of people with no CW/code skills have been using HF for decades. Of course, none of them (CB'ers) are members of the licensed ham radio community. Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? This is not a trivial question. FCC created 27 MHz cb for a definite purpose, but they quickly lost control of it to the point. The FCC of 1958 could not imagine that people would just ignore the rules to the point that enforcement of said rules became impossible. Why did rule-breaking on 27 MHz become the norm rather than the exception? Instead, a couple hundred thousand Technicians did the right thing and "earned" a license Why the quotes around "earned"? Anyone with a valid amateur radio license earned it. (Licenses issued as a result of cheating are not valid, of course, and FCC will invalidate them if sufficient evidence of cheating is presented). to join the ARS, all without being offered even the basic HF operating privileges of an unlicensed CB'er. Let's see.....cb user gets a couple of watts on 40/80 channels and two modes (SSB and AM). Tech gets up to 1500 watts on every amateur band above 30 MHz, if you just count the most commonly used modes (CW, FM, SSB, AM, RTTY, packet, APRS, SSTV, FSTV, PSK-31, DSSS, FHSS, more TOR modes than I can recall, fax, data,..... Also satellites, repeaters, remote control, remote bases, and a bunch of other stuff. Plus almost any new mode or technology that a ham can dream up, implement and document to the FCC. Now which is the better deal? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote:
Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit, and so on). The movie, Smokey & the Bandit, was almost classroom instruction on how to use a CB radio, with Bert Renolds ("Bandit") showing Sally Fields ("Frog") what buttons to push and what to say. As you may remember, this movie was about a trucker moving illegal cargo across the country as quickly as possible, while "Bandit" (with "Frog" riding along) distracted police away from the truck using his faster car. CB radios were used throughout the movie. Obviously, movies like these attracted people with the same "outlaw" mentality to CB Radio. Today, these people attract others like themselves to CB Radio. However, if Hollywood had used Ham Radio in those movies instead, perhaps these same people would have been attracted to Ham Radio and Ham Radio would have the problems today instead of CB Radio. But, as it is, Ham Radio does not offer the same attractions for these people (the "outlaw" image, anonymous operation, and so on). Because of that, most of these people have no interested in Ham Radio. The few who are interested in Ham Radio are attracted for what Ham Radio has to offer, not what CB has to offer. Therefore, these people are not likely to display the same CB-like behavior in the Ham Radio frequencies. The fact that a good number, perhaps the majority, of today's Ham Operators owned a CB radio sometime in the past (or present) supports this conclusion. Now which is the better deal? My message was an attempt to undermine Bruce's many posts trashing Technicians (he is the one constantly bringing up the CB nonsense), not to make any real comparisons between CB and Ham Radio (or CB'ers and Technicians). Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
In article , "Dwight Stewart"
writes: "N2EY" wrote: Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? I wasn't offering CB as a model. OK, fine. In fact, because of its rather unique history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit, and so on). I disagree. Those movies came out *after* wholesale disregard for the rules was already very common on 27. (Although I've never been a cb user, I have listened there since the mid-'60s and known many cb users). At least in the areas where I've lived, regard for the rules was pretty much tossed away by the mid-to-late 1960s. FCC tried to enforce the rules, but their forces were simply too few. The movie, Smokey & the Bandit, was almost classroom instruction on how to use a CB radio, with Bert Renolds ("Bandit") showing Sally Fields ("Frog") what buttons to push and what to say. As you may remember, this movie was about a trucker moving illegal cargo across the country as quickly as possible, while "Bandit" (with "Frog" riding along) distracted police away from the truck using his faster car. CB radios were used throughout the movie. Never saw the whole thing. This was in the era of antihero movies like "Bonnie and Clyde", "Dirty Mary Crazy Larry" and such. Obviously, movies like these attracted people with the same "outlaw" mentality to CB Radio. Today, these people attract others like themselves to CB Radio. That mentality was already in place before the movies were made. However, if Hollywood had used Ham Radio in those movies instead, perhaps these same people would have been attracted to Ham Radio and Ham Radio would have the problems today instead of CB Radio. But ham radio did not have that "outlaw" mentality. And, back then, such activities would have brought down tremendous peer opposition by the rest of the ham community. For example, trying to operate without callsigns on a ham band would get you DFed and reported to FCC. Not so on 27. Also, the complexity and cost of amateur equipment at the time meant a serious investment was needed just to get started. But, as it is, Ham Radio does not offer the same attractions for these people (the "outlaw" image, anonymous operation, and so on). Only because *existing* hams have the *tradition* of not tolerating such behavior. Because of that, most of these people have no interested in Ham Radio. The few who are interested in Ham Radio are attracted for what Ham Radio has to offer, not what CB has to offer. Therefore, these people are not likely to display the same CB-like behavior in the Ham Radio frequencies. The fact that a good number, perhaps the majority, of today's Ham Operators owned a CB radio sometime in the past (or present) supports this conclusion. Yet in my experience there has been a longstanding problem with the cb "outlaw" culture trying to migrate to amateur radio. In this area, at least, we have had serious problems on VHF/UHF repeaters from newcomers who saw 2 meters as a noise-free version of cb. When their behavior (cussing, failure to ID, refusing to share the repeater, threats to those who disagreed with them, etc.) was challenged by other hams, they said "We did this things on 11 and there's nobody going to stop us from doing them here. We don't care what your stupid rules say, we're gonna have our fun and if you don't like it, go away". (Almost verbatim quote.) The only ace-in-the-hole we had was the ability to shut down the repeater. Even that did not always work because these folks would sometimes guess the codes. Now which is the better deal? My message was an attempt to undermine Bruce's many posts trashing Technicians (he is the one constantly bringing up the CB nonsense), not to make any real comparisons between CB and Ham Radio (or CB'ers and Technicians). You don't really take Bruce seriously, do you, Dwight? I don't. He's just another version of Len. In fact the two of them are, philosophically, exactly the same. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
He's just another version of Len. In fact the two of them are,
philosophically, exactly the same. 73 de Jim, N2EY No im not like Len, len doesnt even have a License, and secondly your assuming everything I say is truthful. Use the correct FACTS before you make a correct statement. |
Dwight Stewart wrote: "N2EY" wrote: Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit, and so on). You're off by a few years. Back in the early 70's, I used a CB in our company trucks, and there were plenty of rulebreakers then. Most every time I had to buy parts from a local, I got to see their overheight towers and linear amps. - Mike KB3EIA and a looong time ago, KBM-8780! 8^) - |
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In article , Mike Coslo writes:
Dwight Stewart wrote: "N2EY" wrote: Are they the model we hams should follow, or should we take them as a cautionary tale of what could happen to us? I wasn't offering CB as a model. In fact, because of its rather unique history, I don't think one can use CB as a model for much of anything. CB went to h*ll in a hand basket after Hollywood associated it with the illegal activities shown in several movies of the time (Convoy, Smokey & the Bandit, and so on). You're off by a few years. Back in the early 70's, I used a CB in our company trucks, and there were plenty of rulebreakers then. Most every time I had to buy parts from a local, I got to see their overheight towers and linear amps. IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy" and the first "Smokey and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78. Art imitates life. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote:
Those movies came out *after* wholesale disregard for the rules was already very common on 27. (Although I've never been a cb user, I have listened there since the mid-'60s and known many cb users). In the 60's and early 70's, CB was only a minor nuisance, mainly a concern only for the FCC. Most Americans had never even heard of it. By the end of the 70's, the number of CB'ers had increased dramatically and problems (and complaints) were widespread. The only significant thing that happened during that time, to cause such growth, was the Hollywood movies (and television shows) featuring CB. And you could clearly see that influence. By the late 70's, the very first channel most people turned to when they got their new CB home was channel 19 (the truckers' channel). That fact drove truckers crazy. And the only way most people even knew of that channel was those Hollywood movies. But ham radio did not have that "outlaw" mentality. Really? I thought that was pretty obvious. We were talking about "what if," not "what is." And, back then, such activities would have brought down tremendous peer opposition by the rest of the ham community. (snip) You put way too much faith in peer pressure, Jim. Peer pressure would not control thirty to fifty million people (the estimates of CB'ers by the late 70's) if they had decided to ignore the rules. Yet in my experience there has been a longstanding problem with the cb "outlaw" culture trying to migrate to amateur radio. In this area, at least, we have had serious problems on VHF/ UHF repeaters from newcomers who saw 2 meters as a noise-free version of cb. I've traveled to almost a dozen states in the last five years and such behavior is extremely rare on all of the repeaters I've monitored or used. Instead, I've mostly heard polite, friendly, people who seemed to be very serious about their ham radio involvement. Where problems did exist, it was usually blown out of porportion by guys angry about others using "their" repeater for things they didn't like. In one situation, I even heard several guys antagonizing two guys so they could record the results, which they said was going to be sent to the FCC (minus their part in it, I'm sure). The two guys were not doing anything wrong before those guys showed up on that frequency. Because of my experiences, I always wonder about the cause whenever I hear people talking about a "problem" on a local repeater. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Mike Coslo" wrote: You're off by a few years. Back in the early 70's, I used a CB in our company trucks, and there were plenty of rulebreakers then. Most every time I had to buy parts from a local, I got to see their overheight towers and linear amps. Addressed in my reply to Jim. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"N2EY" wrote: IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy" and the first "Smokey and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78. Just two examples, Jim (that's obviously why I said "and so on"). There were a rash of movies and television shows featuring CB in the mid to late 70's - BJ and the Bear, Dukes of Hazard, Moonshine, Knight Rider, and so on. Even regular television shows (Charley's Angels, Magnum PI, Love Boat, CHiPs, and so on) had episodes featuring CB. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message link.net...
"N2EY" wrote: IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy" and the first "Smokey and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78. Just two examples, Jim (that's obviously why I said "and so on"). Of course. But my point was that the TV shows and movies were a result of the cb boom, and reflected its outlaw nature. They did not cause the boom, nor the culture, which were solidly in place in the late 1960s. There were a rash of movies and television shows featuring CB in the mid to late 70's well *after* cb was a fad.. - BJ and the Bear, premiered 1978 Dukes of Hazard, premiered 1979 Moonshine, premiered 1977 Knight Rider, premiered 1982 and so on. Even regular television shows (Charley's Angels, premiered 1976 Magnum PI, premiered 1980 Love Boat, premiered 1976 CHiPs, premiered 1977 and so on) had episodes featuring CB. I'm sure they did. Note that most of the above are TV shows, and their dates are all fall premiere dates. cb and its culture were already well established long before the movies and TV shows caught on. Heck, First Lady Betty Ford ("First Mama") had one in a White House limo. (The Ford Administration ended in January 1977). The restrictive rules on "external and internal RF power amplifiers" (also called "linyars") were enacted by FCC in 1978. That was long after they were all over the place. Given typical bureaucratic delay, that means amplifiers were a big problem at least two years earlier - 1976. Things did not go bad because of the movies and TV shows. They went bad because there was no way FCC could enforce the rules, and no established culture or tradition of self-discipline, responsibility or rule-following. Art imitates life. The song "Convoy" was a hit in 1976. "C.W. McCall" is/was a persona created by one Bill Fries, starting out as a series of commercials. True fact: The 'band' that backed up "McCall" (actually a rotating bunch of studio musicians) was organized by Chip Davis, who is probably better known for his involvement in the New Age "Mannheim Steamroller" music. To really get a handle (pun intended) on when the boom peaked, look up when FCC gave up on licenses for cb. 73 de Jim, N2EY thank you, imdb.com |
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Hash: SHA1 "Len" =3D=3D Len Over writes: [...] Len SO, WHERE ARE ALL THE MOVIES AND TV SHOWS FEATURING AMATEUR Len RADIO...AND ESPECIALLY MORSE CODE? Where are all the movies and television shows featuring normal families with normal marriages and normal children? Where are all the movies and television shows featuring normal employees working for normal employers? Normal is boring. Conflict is exciting. American culture considers CB radio to be used mostly for evading speed-traps. This illustrates a basic conflict (man versus society) which is featured in forms of entertainment predating the Trojan war, let alone CB radio. This particular conflict also appeals to the American mind-set of bending the rules and avoiding punishment. Amateur radio is used for extending the state of the art, for expressing international goodwill, and for emergency communications. The first two make for bad theater, but the last has potential. Movies and television shows have been created around this type of topic for quite some time, with man versus nature being the most relevant conflict in this case. Amateur radio is usually only used when normal communications systems are unavailable. This doesn't exactly happen on a weekly basis, so it'd be difficult to make a television show based on this scenario. As for a movie, well, the potential is there, but I haven't seen it used effectively. It was a gimmick in _Frequency_ but personally I'd rather see something like the story of the operators lost from Mount St. Helens, or maybe a disaster flick covering The Big One out here in California. Oh, yeah, Morse code. I got a kick out of the satellite scenes in _Enemy of the State_. Dahdidahdit dahdadidah. Jack. =2D --=20 Jack Twilley jmt at twilley dot org http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/fJv8GPFSfAB/ezgRAjlUAKDCo6B/f7pFTvtqoEbM/IgouRplOACfRCtv Z7Vaf1oQXaeGjqcDgSUdGhc=3D =3Dse23 =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
Dwight Stewart wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote: You're off by a few years. Back in the early 70's, I used a CB in our company trucks, and there were plenty of rulebreakers then. Most every time I had to buy parts from a local, I got to see their overheight towers and linear amps. Addressed in my reply to Jim. That CB became well know in the later 70's is not in doubt, but since my job in the early 70's required me to travel on the highways a lot, I can ensure you that it had the "outlaw persona" even at that time. Over the road, the Tuckers sounded very much like they do today, and the boys running their linears were so very much like they are now. The biggest difference was they used a different channel than 19. Know what it was? - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Mike Coslo" wrote:
That CB became well know in the later 70's is not in doubt, but since my job in the early 70's required me to travel on the highways a lot, I can ensure you that it had the "outlaw persona" even at that time. (snip) I don't think I said it didn't, Mike. Instead, I'm pretty sure I said CB "went to h*ell in a handbasket" after the Hollywood movies of the time. Is there some conflict in that? Do you not agree that CB increased on popularily dramatically after those movies and that problems increased dramatically as a result of that growth? That increased popularity was the final nail in the coffen of civilized CB. Unless there is some conflict I don't see, I stand by what I originally said. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
Dwight Stewart wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote: That CB became well know in the later 70's is not in doubt, but since my job in the early 70's required me to travel on the highways a lot, I can ensure you that it had the "outlaw persona" even at that time. (snip) I don't think I said it didn't, Mike. Instead, I'm pretty sure I said CB "went to h*ell in a handbasket" after the Hollywood movies of the time. Is there some conflict in that? Do you not agree that CB increased on popularily dramatically after those movies and that problems increased dramatically as a result of that growth? That increased popularity was the final nail in the coffen of civilized CB. Unless there is some conflict I don't see, I stand by what I originally said. I just say it went there some years earlier than you believe it did. I was there and listening. - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article ,
(N2EY) writes: (Len Over 21) wrote in message ... In article , (N2EY) writes: "Dwight Stewart" wrote in message hlink.net... "N2EY" wrote: IMDB.com (Internet Movie Data Base) says that "Convoy" and the first "Smokey and the Bandit" came out in 1977-78. Just two examples, Jim (that's obviously why I said "and so on"). Of course. But my point was that the TV shows and movies were a result of the cb boom, and reflected its outlaw nature. They did not cause the boom, nor the culture, which were solidly in place in the late 1960s. What "outlaw" actions took place then ? On cb (this is the short list): - Operation without a license (when licenses were required) - Failure to identify - False/misleading identification - Power far in excess of legal limit - Use of non-type-accepted/certified equipment - Operation on unauthorized frequencies - Intentional interference - Obscenity/profanity/vulgarity - Contacts beyond the legal distance limit - Contacts beyond the legal time limit And the big one: - Use of radio to facilitate other illegal activities (such as speed limit violations) All of the above were common long before there were movies or TV shows with cb in them. There were a rash of movies and television shows featuring CB in the mid to late 70's well *after* cb was a fad.. The "fad" continues, over two decades later. :-) Not at anything like the level of 20 years ago. I'm sure they did. Note that most of the above are TV shows, and their dates are all fall premiere dates. You have a dispute with the entertainment industry and television in general? Most of what is produced by the "entertainment industry" is pure unaldulterated JUNK. Not just worthless but actually harmful. Not a new phenomenon, either, it's been that way at least as long as I've been around. There are notable exceptions, of course, but the *average* TV show or Hollywood movie is not worth the time it takes to watch. Take it up with the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. A group whose only purpose is for those who work in the "industry" to give each other awards. Their headquarters is in North Hollywood...very nice building. Nice folks in there... I'm sure there are some nice people in the "entertainment industry". But that industry produces an awfully high percentage of JUNK. but watch out on dissing them or you might wind up head- first in one of the fountains in the courtyard. How? Are you going to overpower me and throw me there? I'd really like to see you try. Sure sounds like you are threatening me, Len. Simply for expressing an opinion. cb and its culture were already well established long before the movies and TV shows caught on. "Outlaw culture?" :-) Yep. The restrictive rules on "external and internal RF power amplifiers" (also called "linyars") were enacted by FCC in 1978. That was long after they were all over the place. Given typical bureaucratic delay, that means amplifiers were a big problem at least two years earlier - 1976. Okay, here it is 27 years later. Where are all the avenging marshalls and sheriffs and fast-draw lawmen setting up law and order in the wild EM west? They're called the FCC. You may have heard of them. Things did not go bad because of the movies and TV shows. They went bad because there was no way FCC could enforce the rules, and no established culture or tradition of self-discipline, responsibility or rule-following. Yes, pity that...no one to "establish culture or tradition or self-discipline" That's right. Instead, a culture of "who cares what the rules are" emerged and became dominant. Kinda like on TV. SO, WHERE ARE ALL THE MOVIES AND TV SHOWS FEATURING AMATEUR RADIO...AND ESPECIALLY MORSE CODE? Where are all the movies and TV shows about normal, average people with regular jobs, living in typical families and having normal lives? Most Americans don't live in Los Angeles, San Franscisco, Chicago or New York City. Most Americans do not work in health care or the criminal justice system. Most Americans' problems and conflicts are not resolved in 22 or 44 minutes. Most American television and motion pictures are JUNK. Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. |
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"N2EY" wrote in message om... On cb (this is the short list): - Operation without a license (when licenses were required) - Failure to identify Hey, Jim? Just a quick question, 'cause I'm going on what goes on around here. Have you ever heard long-time hams of the elder generation who get on a club repeater and routinely forget to identify? I've heard entire conversations take place here, where one or more of the long-time hams [probably forget] fail to identify--even when they leave the radio. - False/misleading identification Haven't heard much of that on ham radio. - Power far in excess of legal limit Heck, I wouldn't know if that was taking place without the right test equipment I suppose. I could sure guess it one way or the other or, again, take some hams around here at their word that they "chuckle have a tendency to overdo it now and then to get that " "rare" " one." - Use of non-type-accepted/certified equipment Ditto above. - Operation on unauthorized frequencies Haven't listened long enough at any time to see how much/often I hear this on ham radio. Bet it goes on more than we realize, though(?) - Intentional interference Hear that all the time on VHF and HF. More common on VHF, though. - Obscenity/profanity/vulgarity Hear that all the time. And, I'd classify calling Democrats Nazis as being vulgar, etc. I hear conversations such as this quite routinely around here--again from long-time hams on their local "club" machines--I guess where they figure they have earned the right to be that way. - Contacts beyond the legal distance limit - Contacts beyond the legal time limit Of course, this would be a moot point--for the most part--on ham radio. And the big one: - Use of radio to facilitate other illegal activities (such as speed limit violations) Well, gotta hang my head again and say that I hear that routinely done around here on 2M. In fact, you'll hear the proverbial "smokey" reports, and hear of hams bragging all the time about zooming down the highway ("I'm trying to catch up with you, dude, and I'm doing 75; how fast *are* you going?"). Really. Just my two pennies worth of stuff that can go on whether it's CB or not. And, I agree with you on all the comments about TV, etc., although I like most of the comedy shows on ABC. Kim W5TIT |
"Len Over 21" wrote in message ... Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. Noooooo...those are just your OPINIONS. :-) Not only that, consider the source... you're dealing with another PCTA type that didn't receive his or her fair share of grey matter such that self-determination isn't possible... it's just "bleat like the rest of the sheep" "CW test good.... modernization bad..... CW test good.... mdernization bad...." Clint -- The first amendment was meant to protect individual citizen's rights to free speech from being hindered or banned by the government. Did anybody else notice that it was 3 candidates for president of the democratic party that called for Rush Limbaugh's firing for what he said? |
"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
... "Len Over 21" wrote in message ... Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. Noooooo...those are just your OPINIONS. :-) Not only that, consider the source... you're dealing with another PCTA type that didn't receive his or her fair share of grey matter such that self-determination isn't possible... it's just "bleat like the rest of the sheep" "CW test good.... modernization bad..... CW test good.... mdernization bad...." Clint -- The first amendment was meant to protect individual citizen's rights to free speech from being hindered or banned by the government. Did anybody else notice that it was 3 candidates for president of the democratic party that called for Rush Limbaugh's firing for what he said? Clint, you're a real certifiable asshole. You probably advocate terrorism if it meets with your agenda. You creep. Kim W5TIT |
In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes: "N2EY" wrote in message . com... On cb (this is the short list): - Operation without a license (when licenses were required) - Failure to identify Hey, Jim? Yo! (the original "Rocky" was on the other night - great film) Just a quick question, 'cause I'm going on what goes on around here. Have you ever heard long-time hams of the elder generation who get on a club repeater and routinely forget to identify? Nope. 'round these parts, failure to ID is pretty rare. Sometimes a newbie will forget, and be very gently reminded in an indirect way (say, by having somebody mention the call of everyone in the round table). I've heard entire conversations take place here, where one or more of the long-time hams [probably forget] fail to identify--even when they leave the radio. I've heard that once or twice, maybe - and never from the experienced hams. - False/misleading identification Haven't heard much of that on ham radio. - Power far in excess of legal limit Heck, I wouldn't know if that was taking place without the right test equipment I suppose. I could sure guess it one way or the other or, again, take some hams around here at their word that they "chuckle have a tendency to overdo it now and then to get that " "rare" " one." In some ways it's a bit of a mismatched comparison. If a ham runs, say, 6000 watts output (!) it will only make him/her about 6 db (1 S-unit) louder than the legal limit. But the cber who runs 400 watts out is about 20 dB (almost 3-1/2 S units) over the line. - Use of non-type-accepted/certified equipment Ditto above. Hams are not required to use type-accepted/certified equipment. cb users are. - Operation on unauthorized frequencies Haven't listened long enough at any time to see how much/often I hear this on ham radio. Bet it goes on more than we realize, though(?) Nope. No reason, really. - Intentional interference Hear that all the time on VHF and HF. More common on VHF, though. Must be some real characters down there in TX, Kim. The worst we get up here is when somebody "doubles" on the repeater - and then, just so they don't feel bad, everybody keys their rig at once and makes a heterodyne furball. For about 10 seconds. Not really intentional interference, tho. - Obscenity/profanity/vulgarity Hear that all the time. And, I'd classify calling Democrats Nazis as being vulgar, etc. I hear conversations such as this quite routinely around here--again from long-time hams on their local "club" machines--I guess where they figure they have earned the right to be that way. That's awful. Somebody tried that around here, the machine would go dead. Try it more than once and they'd find nobody would talk to them. Can't say I've ever heard anything like that on CW at all. Ever. Worst was somebody calling somebody a lid for calling the DX on his (the DX's) freq, after he'd announced he was working split. - Contacts beyond the legal distance limit - Contacts beyond the legal time limit Of course, this would be a moot point--for the most part--on ham radio. 'zactly And the big one: - Use of radio to facilitate other illegal activities (such as speed limit violations) Well, gotta hang my head again and say that I hear that routinely done around here on 2M. In fact, you'll hear the proverbial "smokey" reports, and hear of hams bragging all the time about zooming down the highway ("I'm trying to catch up with you, dude, and I'm doing 75; how fast *are* you going?"). Really. 'round here it's tough enough to go the speed limit.... And that all came from where? Just my two pennies worth of stuff that can go on whether it's CB or not. Oh sure. Point is, it was common on cb long before the movies and TV shows came out. It was not common on ham radio back then - or now, around here anyway. And, I agree with you on all the comments about TV, etc., although I like most of the comedy shows on ABC. I see maybe a few hours of TV a week at most. Usually PBS, rented tapes and some of the better comedies. Last week of the summer, was on vacation at a place with cable. 50 odd channels and usually not a thing worth watching. Right now the newest Ken Burns documentary is on. First transcontinental auto trip, done west-to-east, in 1903. Hiram Percy Maxim was an early auto pioneer, too. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"Kim W5TIT" wrote: - Power far in excess of legal limit Heck, I wouldn't know if that was taking place without the right test equipment I suppose. (snip) The more outragious offenders almost always stand out, Kim. For example, if one signal in a area is much stronger than the other signals in that area, that person is very likely using illegal equipment. Plus, those running illegal equipment often give themselves away by doing other modifications to their radios (for example, an overmodulated radio is a sure sign the radio was modified). If you know the person's location, and the antenna used, the simple signal strength meter on most radios can be used for a rough guage. It's simply a matter of knowing what a CB would normally do under those conditions, compared to what that equipment is doing. Of course, none of this is proof enough for the FCC, but all are good informal methods (suggesting more formal tests need to be done). Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Clint wrote: "Len Over 21" wrote in message ... Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. Noooooo...those are just your OPINIONS. :-) Not only that, consider the source... you're dealing with another PCTA type that didn't receive his or her fair share of grey matter such that self-determination isn't possible... it's just "bleat like the rest of the sheep" "CW test good.... modernization bad..... CW test good.... mdernization bad...." Clint One could compare rattlehead with Forrest Gump except that Forrest was a not so bright fellow who did have some common sense... I've noticed that folks that are a bit 'slow' are good at common sense. Rattlehead is the exception that proves the rule. Dan/W4NTI |
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message ink.net...
"Kim " wrote: - Power far in excess of legal limit Heck, I wouldn't know if that was taking place without the right test equipment I suppose. (snip) The more outragious offenders almost always stand out, Kim. For example, if one signal in a area is much stronger than the other signals in that area, that person is very likely using illegal equipment. Plus, those running illegal equipment often give themselves away by doing other modifications to their radios (for example, an overmodulated radio is a sure sign the radio was modified). If you know the person's location, and the antenna used, the simple signal strength meter on most radios can be used for a rough guage. It's simply a matter of knowing what a CB would normally do under those conditions, compared to what that equipment is doing. Of course, none of this is proof enough for the FCC, but all are good informal methods (suggesting more formal tests need to be done). Or when the person says "gee, guess Ah bettah turn on the afterburner" and the signal jumps up 20 dB..... Shall we resurrect the "47 kW mobile" thread? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote:
Or when the person says "gee, guess Ah bettah turn on the afterburner" and the signal jumps up 20 dB..... Yep, it does somewhat give it away, doesn't it? That reminds me of a drunk CB'er heard with the shortwave one night. Over a course of an hour or so, he contacted maybe a dozen people and asked each one how he sounded. No matter what that person said, he always responded with "Maybe this will help. Ugh!" as he turned on his linear (the "Ugh" was a long, drawn out, grunt). After the initial surprise, I couldn't stop laughing each time he did it. The fact that he was perfectly serious (he was simply that proud of his, possibly new, toy) made it all the more humorous. It all ended with a argument with another CB'er. I couldn't hear what the other CB'er said (cheap shortwave receiver), but I got the impression that he was complaining about interference with another channel. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"N8WWM" wrote in message ... In article t, Dan/W4NTI says... "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Clint wrote: "Len Over 21" wrote in message ... Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. Noooooo...those are just your OPINIONS. :-) Not only that, consider the source... you're dealing with another PCTA type that didn't receive his or her fair share of grey matter such that self-determination isn't possible... it's just "bleat like the rest of the sheep" "CW test good.... modernization bad..... CW test good.... mdernization bad...." Clint One could compare rattlehead with Forrest Gump except that Forrest was a not so bright fellow who did have some common sense... I've noticed that folks that are a bit 'slow' are good at common sense. Rattlehead is the exception that proves the rule. Dan/W4NTI You are and old fart. Step aside before the tech class run you over, chump. Now thats a funny one. I would have to run backwards for 40 years to allow them to come even, chump. Dan/W4NTI |
Are you guys going to be this abrasive and sour, even years after
they are rid of your precious morse code test, or are you going to be childish and juvenile ad infinitum? Clint "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... N8WWM wrote: In article t, Dan/W4NTI says... "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Clint wrote: "Len Over 21" wrote in message ... Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. Noooooo...those are just your OPINIONS. :-) Not only that, consider the source... you're dealing with another PCTA type that didn't receive his or her fair share of grey matter such that self-determination isn't possible... it's just "bleat like the rest of the sheep" "CW test good.... modernization bad..... CW test good.... mdernization bad...." Clint One could compare rattlehead with Forrest Gump except that Forrest was a not so bright fellow who did have some common sense... I've noticed that folks that are a bit 'slow' are good at common sense. Rattlehead is the exception that proves the rule. Dan/W4NTI You are and old fart. Step aside before the tech class run you over, chump. Ah. Another example of the "slow" class, again lacking common sense. Tell ya what, Genius- when there are so many of you that the bands are carpeted with you, it won't be possible to walk over oldtimers - We'll be gone fishing. You're doing your damnedest to do the same thing to ham radio you did to CB, and the FCC and ARRL are not only going along with it, they're facilitating it. It's lunacy - right where you belong. |
We are following your example Clint.
And no one mentioned a damn thing about CW. And you are the one that bitches when it comes up. What a hypocrite you are. Now go back in your hole. Dan/W4NTI "Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message ... Are you guys going to be this abrasive and sour, even years after they are rid of your precious morse code test, or are you going to be childish and juvenile ad infinitum? Clint "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... N8WWM wrote: In article t, Dan/W4NTI says... "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Clint wrote: "Len Over 21" wrote in message ... Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. Noooooo...those are just your OPINIONS. :-) Not only that, consider the source... you're dealing with another PCTA type that didn't receive his or her fair share of grey matter such that self-determination isn't possible... it's just "bleat like the rest of the sheep" "CW test good.... modernization bad..... CW test good.... mdernization bad...." Clint One could compare rattlehead with Forrest Gump except that Forrest was a not so bright fellow who did have some common sense... I've noticed that folks that are a bit 'slow' are good at common sense. Rattlehead is the exception that proves the rule. Dan/W4NTI You are and old fart. Step aside before the tech class run you over, chump. Ah. Another example of the "slow" class, again lacking common sense. Tell ya what, Genius- when there are so many of you that the bands are carpeted with you, it won't be possible to walk over oldtimers - We'll be gone fishing. You're doing your damnedest to do the same thing to ham radio you did to CB, and the FCC and ARRL are not only going along with it, they're facilitating it. It's lunacy - right where you belong. |
*handing you a tissue*
let me know if you need another one. Clint "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message ink.net... We are following your example Clint. And no one mentioned a damn thing about CW. And you are the one that bitches when it comes up. What a hypocrite you are. Now go back in your hole. Dan/W4NTI "Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message ... Are you guys going to be this abrasive and sour, even years after they are rid of your precious morse code test, or are you going to be childish and juvenile ad infinitum? Clint "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... N8WWM wrote: In article t, Dan/W4NTI says... "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Clint wrote: "Len Over 21" wrote in message ... Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. Noooooo...those are just your OPINIONS. :-) Not only that, consider the source... you're dealing with another PCTA type that didn't receive his or her fair share of grey matter such that self-determination isn't possible... it's just "bleat like the rest of the sheep" "CW test good.... modernization bad..... CW test good.... mdernization bad...." Clint One could compare rattlehead with Forrest Gump except that Forrest was a not so bright fellow who did have some common sense... I've noticed that folks that are a bit 'slow' are good at common sense. Rattlehead is the exception that proves the rule. Dan/W4NTI You are and old fart. Step aside before the tech class run you over, chump. Ah. Another example of the "slow" class, again lacking common sense. Tell ya what, Genius- when there are so many of you that the bands are carpeted with you, it won't be possible to walk over oldtimers - We'll be gone fishing. You're doing your damnedest to do the same thing to ham radio you did to CB, and the FCC and ARRL are not only going along with it, they're facilitating it. It's lunacy - right where you belong. |
Yeah thats right. I run a FT-1000MP. I operate V/Uhf weak signal. I own
and am self taught and literate on 2 computers. I operate 4 digital modes on HF with them. I contest and use state of the art log programs. Oh and BTW I have been a electronics technician for 30 years. Get a life loser. Dan/W4NTI "N8WWM" wrote in message ... You're just jealous of the new technology and gear that is making you obsolete. You're the type of person who would jam repeaters. In article . net, Dan/W4NTI says... We are following your example Clint. And no one mentioned a damn thing about CW. And you are the one that bitches when it comes up. What a hypocrite you are. Now go back in your hole. Dan/W4NTI "Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message ... Are you guys going to be this abrasive and sour, even years after they are rid of your precious morse code test, or are you going to be childish and juvenile ad infinitum? Clint "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... N8WWM wrote: In article t, Dan/W4NTI says... "Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Clint wrote: "Len Over 21" wrote in message ... Now you can get all upset and indignant, Len old boy, but the facts are the facts. Noooooo...those are just your OPINIONS. :-) Not only that, consider the source... you're dealing with another PCTA type that didn't receive his or her fair share of grey matter such that self-determination isn't possible... it's just "bleat like the rest of the sheep" "CW test good.... modernization bad..... CW test good.... mdernization bad...." Clint One could compare rattlehead with Forrest Gump except that Forrest was a not so bright fellow who did have some common sense... I've noticed that folks that are a bit 'slow' are good at common sense. Rattlehead is the exception that proves the rule. Dan/W4NTI You are and old fart. Step aside before the tech class run you over, chump. Ah. Another example of the "slow" class, again lacking common sense. Tell ya what, Genius- when there are so many of you that the bands are carpeted with you, it won't be possible to walk over oldtimers - We'll be gone fishing. You're doing your damnedest to do the same thing to ham radio you did to CB, and the FCC and ARRL are not only going along with it, they're facilitating it. It's lunacy - right where you belong. |
In article , "Clint" rattlehead at
computron dot net writes: Are you guys going to be this abrasive and sour, even years after they are rid of your precious morse code test, or are you going to be childish and juvenile ad infinitum? Clint "Dick Carroll" wrote in message |
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Yeah thats right. I run a FT-1000MP. I operate V/Uhf weak signal. I own and am self taught and literate on 2 computers. I operate 4 digital modes on HF with them. I contest and use state of the art log programs. Oh and BTW I have been a electronics technician for 30 years. Get a life loser. man, you almost had the appearance of making an honest point until you made the ad-hom attack. That just confirms the ongoing belief that most of all this rhetoric is sour grapes. Clint |
"Len Over 21" wrote in message ... In article , "Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net writes: Are you guys going to be this abrasive and sour, even years after they are rid of your precious morse code test, or are you going to be childish and juvenile ad infinitum? Clint "Dick Carroll" wrote in message Thats the best post I ever saw from Lenny boy. Hope he keeps it up. Dan/W4NTI |
"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message ... "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net... Yeah thats right. I run a FT-1000MP. I operate V/Uhf weak signal. I own and am self taught and literate on 2 computers. I operate 4 digital modes on HF with them. I contest and use state of the art log programs. Oh and BTW I have been a electronics technician for 30 years. Get a life loser. man, you almost had the appearance of making an honest point until you made the ad-hom attack. That just confirms the ongoing belief that most of all this rhetoric is sour grapes. Clint As Knute Rockney and Bear Bryant used to say.... "The best defense is a good offense" Dan/W4NTI |
In article , "Clint" rattlehead at
computron dot net writes: Are you guys going to be this abrasive and sour, even years after they are rid of your precious morse code test, or are you going to be childish and juvenile ad infinitum? The latter, Clint, the latter... :-) |
In article k.net,
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes: As Knute Rockney and Bear Bryant used to say.... "The best defense is a good offense" Dan/W4NTI Okay, consider yourself very offensive! :-) |
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