In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:

I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.

ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

2) FCC has to announce a change and then implement it. To my knowledge, stuff
like license requirement changes almost never is done "effective immediately".
So the day such a change is announced, you'll see a flurry of folks getting
their Techs in anticiaption of a free upgrade to General in a few weeks or
months.

Of course, almost
anything is possible.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:


I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.


ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

Let's test your premise here, Jim. Would you support a one class system
in which all amateurs that have passed Novice, Tech, General or (of
course) Extra get an "instant upgrade" to Extra?

That of course would be a simple and elegant solution. No more arguing
about anything as far as classes go.

That would certainly cure the falloff in people getting Tech licenses
at the moment. A person would have to be foolish to not take the Tech
class license in order to get General class access after restructuring
as in your example, or full Extra access as in my one class idea.



- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:


I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.


ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to
General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

Let's test your premise here, Jim. Would you support a one class system

in which all amateurs that have passed Novice, Tech, General or (of
course) Extra get an "instant upgrade" to Extra?

No. In fact, not just "no" but "HELL, NO!!"

That of course would be a simple and elegant solution. No more arguing
about anything as far as classes go.

"All amateurs are equal. Some are more equal than others" (with a tip of the
hat to George Orwell and "Animal Farm".

That would certainly cure the falloff in people getting Tech licenses
at the moment. A person would have to be foolish to not take the Tech
class license in order to get General class access after restructuring
as in your example, or full Extra access as in my one class idea.

Some folks would agree with that system, or one like it. After all, once upon a
time, anyone who could pass the Tech/General written (they were the same test
for 36 years) and the required code test got all privileges. If the code test
is removed, that leaves the General written.

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham *must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Be careful what you ask for.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,



(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:



I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.


ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to

General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

Let's test your premise here, Jim. Would you support a one class system


in which all amateurs that have passed Novice, Tech, General or (of
course) Extra get an "instant upgrade" to Extra?


No. In fact, not just "no" but "HELL, NO!!"

Okay, now I know a little more where you stand on this. I wasn't sure if
you were being DA on it or what..... Wait a second... DA means Devil's
Advocate... other interpretations might not be so kind! 8^)


snip

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham *must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham
*must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

73 de Larry, K3LT

Larry Roll K3LT wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham

*must*

know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

And what I'm thinking is that unless it means something again, they
might as well get rid of it. That little sliver of operating frequencies
is not worth it, if increased privileges are the measuring stick.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...

And what I'm thinking is that unless it means something again, they
might as well get rid of it. That little sliver of operating frequencies
is not worth it, if increased privileges are the measuring stick.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Actually, the differences in privs from General to Extra are substantial.
With the FCC no longer issuing Advanced licenses, the only way to
gain access to the "Advanced sub-bands" is to upgrade to Extra.

I'd say that's a pretty good incentive.

73,
Carl - wk3c

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Larry Roll K3LT wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham

*must*

know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was
that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

And what I'm thinking is that unless it means something again, they
might as well get rid of it. That little sliver of operating frequencies
is not worth it, if increased privileges are the measuring stick.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Wrong again Mike. Its a place to go to get away from the 'others'... hi.

Dan/W4NTI

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

And what I'm thinking is that unless it means something again, they
might as well get rid of it. That little sliver of operating frequencies
is not worth it, if increased privileges are the measuring stick.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

True, if you're talking about the difference between Advanced and Extra
under the Pre-Restructuring system. In that system, the motivation to
upgrade to Extra was to gain the International DX "windows" on phone
and CW, plus the benefit of the 1x2 and 2x1 callsigns, and the "status" that
went with being an Amateur Extra. I considered that to be well worth
the effort required to pass Elements 1(c) and 2(e). However, "status"
among hams is now Politically Incorrect, so we must now endure the
"socialized" licensing system we now have in the ARS. Personally, I
didn't have too many problems with the No-code Tech concept, except
for the fact that even though it literally gave away 97% of all amateur
operating privileges, it only led to greater expectations of even more
dumbing-down.

73 de Larry, K3LT

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham
*must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

73 de Larry, K3LT


I've never thought of it that way Larry, but your 100% correct. Just look
at Kim.

Dan/W4NTI