"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...
Larry Roll K3LT wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:


No mode always gets through. Some modes, however, get through when some
other

modes don't.

Jim:

Indeed. And more often than not, it's usually good, 'ole fashion
Morse/CW
which is getting through.


And just to crown their ignorarance of it all, when I found a
dead-band morning where there was group of very weak Europeans coming in
on 20 meter PSK31 that wouldn't print, but their CW ID's were completely
good copy, Carl and his little lid buddy Brain Burke accuse me of "not
being able to make PSK31 work!"
Can you believe the clowns? I had only been working PSK31 for the past
6 or 8 months!

I know, the reason for the failure of PSK31 in that case was likely
polar phase shift, but that seems to be meaningless to our technical
genius and his pals!


"Too many clowns and not enough ringmasters!"

*They're already here!"


How do you know it was polar phase shift, DICK? Did you get enough
information to see that they were transmitting from their home locations as
well? How do you know they weren't visiting somewhere? Did you get enough
copy to tell all that?

Kim W5TIT

"Kim W5TIT" wrote



The term "******" (excuse me, to anyone who is offended
by that word--me included) isn't derogatory until some
bigoted person uses it against another person, either.
No hazard, at all, in being honest.


Of course it's derogatory, no matter who uses the word.

True story.....

In the winter of 2001/02 K0CKB and I were vacationing in the
southwest. We had parked our RV in the lovely town of Big Spring,
Texas for a couple of days, and I had my truck down at the local
"quick lube" place for an oil change. A local fellow also having his
truck lubed noticed a "Sailors have more fun" bumper sticker on my
truck, and struck up a conversation about his days in the Navy. Like
me, he had spent some time in the brown water Navy running PBR's in
the Mekong, so a lively conversation ensued. In discussing some of
his close calls, he attributed his survival to "his big ******", who
was one of his crewman, apparently a big man who was particularly good
with heavy weapons. He had liberated a 50-calibre from a wrecked
aircraft and mounted it on the bow of the PBR in place of the lighter
'regulation' mount, and was extremely adept at using the gun. The
fellow cited this the single most important reason his craft had
survived Now in the context of the conversation it was apparent to
everyone present that he held this crewman in VERY high regard. Yet
the term was patently as derogatory as if he had called the man a
mo----f---er, a c--ks---ker, or any other demeaning name. Two
bystanders (not minorities) took the guy to task for his choice of
words, and he apologized.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Not sure what you mean. In every state I know of, there's no test or
restriction on manuals vs. automatics unless someone is clearly unable to
drive
a manual.

Hello Jim ...Just in reference to the old buggy whip automatic xmission
argument .....a skill is a skill is a skill .... noting less nothing more
untill it is needed. eg ...my buddy took me to pick up his son's truck ..
stick shift and he was stuck.... Just the way that no code ops will be stuck
when it comes to the CW mode.



BTW I can't wait
for all the leaps and bounds in growth of the service once CW testing is
gone. I would venture to say that at least a half a dozen new modes will
be
created within a few months now that all of those EEs will be
"activated".

I'm an EE.

...and I'm a PT

Correction ..all of those EEs and computer engineers who are presently
non-ticketed due to CW being below their technical prowess.


ld even say that I would have to eat crow as no doubt within 1 year a
mode will be discovered that "will always get through".

No mode always gets through. Some modes, however, get through when some
other
modes don't.

But I am sure that will come with all the new technical blood that giving
the CW test the boot will result in ..
(tounge in cheekedly)

73 to all ...God Bless Tom Popovic KI3R Port Vue PA

"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
om...
"Kim W5TIT" wrote



The term "******" (excuse me, to anyone who is offended
by that word--me included) isn't derogatory until some
bigoted person uses it against another person, either.
No hazard, at all, in being honest.


Of course it's derogatory, no matter who uses the word.

True story.....

In the winter of 2001/02 K0CKB and I were vacationing in the
southwest. We had parked our RV in the lovely town of Big Spring,
Texas for a couple of days, and I had my truck down at the local
"quick lube" place for an oil change. A local fellow also having his
truck lubed noticed a "Sailors have more fun" bumper sticker on my
truck, and struck up a conversation about his days in the Navy. Like
me, he had spent some time in the brown water Navy running PBR's in
the Mekong, so a lively conversation ensued. In discussing some of
his close calls, he attributed his survival to "his big ******", who
was one of his crewman, apparently a big man who was particularly good
with heavy weapons. He had liberated a 50-calibre from a wrecked
aircraft and mounted it on the bow of the PBR in place of the lighter
'regulation' mount, and was extremely adept at using the gun. The
fellow cited this the single most important reason his craft had
survived Now in the context of the conversation it was apparent to
everyone present that he held this crewman in VERY high regard. Yet
the term was patently as derogatory as if he had called the man a
mo----f---er, a c--ks---ker, or any other demeaning name. Two
bystanders (not minorities) took the guy to task for his choice of
words, and he apologized.

73, de Hans, K0HB


Hans, unfortunately, that term is freely used down here. I've heard it from
perfect strangers if I happen to be with the common friend of another and
they just chat for a few minutes, to a close gathering of all friends who
freely express that form of hatred, regardless of how they know I feel about
it. I have dropped three, what I thought was, very good friends in the last
two years over this issue. Not only the "term" but the emotion of bigotry
*and* racism that goes along with it, is alive and well down here.

I freely express disdain at the emotion of bigotry and racism and have often
been chastised for it. Now, among my black friends I am called that
name--and, I admit, it still throws me when they use--but I am told over and
over again that the use of that word "among them" is an expression of
kindred spirit. I still tell them I don't like it. I tell them to call me
by the affectionate name one of my girlfriends calls me, "Boo."

I have also met blacks (and people from other ethnic groups) who are bigots
and racists and I have just as much disdain for them.

Kim W5TIT

"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
om...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

And one of the founders of the company, who is a friend and
colleague of mine now, is a no-code tech (I persuaded him to
get into ham radio. He has NO interest in Morse, but is a
hell of a digital modes engineer.)

That's quite a story, Carl, since the company was founded in 1935 by
Ralph Allison. That would put Ralph up in his 90's somewhere. Well,
it's good to know he's still in engineering and keeping up with the
latest trends. Give him best regards from everyone at ADC. We were
under the mistaken impression that he had passed on.

73, de Hans, K0HB
--
http://www.adc.com/aboutadc/history/

OK ... I'm mistaken ... I was refering to Paul Nikolich
the Chair of IEEE 802 ... in retrospect, I believe he
was one of the founders of a company that your company
acquired.

I was not trying to mislead anyone.

Carl

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim W5TIT"

writes:

Therein lies the problem with the whole CW test (TEST, *test*) debate.
The
minute one takes on the "no" CW test argument, it is generally met with
an
attitude that an end CW use (USE, *use*) is being favored or called for.

Kim:

Code testing has always been the thing which generated code use.

I would assert that being forced to learn code to gain access to HF
"soured" more people on code use than it encouraged ... of course,
some percentage of folks decided they liked code and continued to
use it, but MANY simply endured something they had no interest in
to get past the test, then "threw away the key."

Remember the old adage "honey is better than vinegar."

In the absence of a code testing requirement, there will be progressively
fewer hams who have never been exposed to learning the code as a
result of the requirement. Since the requirement was the principle
motivation to learn the code, code use *will* decline once code testing
is abolished. Therefore, testing and use are two closely interrelated
concepts.

Translation: Larry and his "kindred spirits" are either unwilling to expend
the effort to (or incapable of *politely*) encourage people to "give the
code a try and see if you like it." And, they are apparently unwilling to
take "No thanks, not interested" for an answer. Thus, they continue to
seek to have the FCC mandate an arguably counter-productive "recruiting
program" for them ...

73,
Carl - wk3c

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...

None, actually. The truth is that the Morse/CW mode is one of the most
practical, efficient, effective, and universal modes of radio
communication
available to radio amateurs, and well worth the effort to gain and
maintain
this particular skill.

I see that Larry still has that macro key programmed ... :-)


Carl - wk3c


ROFLMAO!!!!!

Kim W5TIT

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

Carl:

I consider the use of the term "Morse myths" to be derogatory and
inflammatory. Thus, you have also failed to meet Mike's challenge.

73 de Larry, K3LT


Larry,

I don't recall Mike appointing your the judge and arbiter ...

Carl:

In that case, consider my services to have been donated out of my own
generosity.

I guess I got what I paid for :-)

"Morse Myths" is, as you well know by now, simply a term
that refers to all of the patently false, old wives' tales, such as
"Morse gets through when nothing else will.",

This one is true…

Bluntly - baloney ... there ARE modes that will get through at
s/n ratios where Morse would be totally undetectable, let alone
decodable ... ignore the facts if it preserves your fantasy world
where Morse is all-important (the "legend in your own mind"),
but the rest of the world will pass you by without your even
understanding why ...

"Morse is essential
for emergency communications.",

Who said that? Provide correctly attributed quote.

Read any number of absurd pro-code-testing comments
filed with the FCC ...

"Morse acts as a 'lid filter' to
keep us from being overrun by the "mongul hordes' of CBers
who are lurking in the wings waiting to take over the ham bands."
etc.

I've never said that whatsoever -- in fact, on many occasions, I've gone
out of my way to note that a lot of the problems on HF phone are being
caused by 20-WPM code tested Extras.

I didn't say that YOU necessarily said that ... though you HAVE refered
to the "knuckle-draggers" and other terms that fall into a similar category.

I reject your claim that the term "Morse Myths" is derogatory and
inflamatory.

Reject all you want, Carl, but the fact remains that it is. You have
taken
the low road, while claiming the opposite.

It is simply a term that refers in "shorthand" form to
a panoply of falacies that are often cited as "reasons why we MUST
keep Morse testing" ... none of which hold water and all of which
have been rejected by the FCC.

I have always presented well-reasoned, factual, and unemotional
arguments in support of code testing.

RTFLMAO!!!

Please don't hold me up to
the same light as those who may have transgressed in the manner
which you refer to above. Above all, please remember that by far,
the largest portion of the QRM in the code/no-code debate has been
from the NCTA side.

ROTFLMAO some more ...

Also remember that as one who has never
used the Morse/CW mode to an extent which would have allowed
you to gain useful proficiency in the mode, you are not qualified to
judge the value of this mode at all.

You are totally wrong on this assertion ... I know the code, had
"useful proficiency" (nearly 20 wpm at my peak), but haven't used
it in a long time ... I am certainly qualified to judge the value of the
mode (at least for my purposes, and also in more general terms).

I'm not sitting here trying to
argue technical topics with you, so don't you try to tell me that the
Morse/CW mode and testing aren't of value to the ARS. We are
not on each other's respective levels of expertise. Since I'm
more than willing to respect your technical expertise, don't presume
to challenge my qualifications to make judgments about CW and
code testing, because you don't know what your talking about.

Larry, I don't demean your "real ham-ness" because you are not
my equal on the technical plane, but you demean the "real ham-ness"
of anyone who is up to your "standards" of Morse prowess ...
I think you're arrogance and narrow-mindedness are showing again.

Carl - wk3c

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article .net, "Bill
Sohl"
writes:

Carl:

I consider the use of the term "Morse myths" to be derogatory and
inflammatory. Thus, you have also failed to meet Mike's challenge.

73 de Larry, K3LT

Hw about morse fallicies, morse inaccuracies, erronious morse
claims? Which of these do you find acceptable?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Bill:

None, actually. The truth is that the Morse/CW mode is one of the most
practical, efficient, effective, and universal modes of radio
communication
available to radio amateurs, and well worth the effort to gain and
maintain
this particular skill.

I see that Larry still has that macro key programmed ... :-)


Carl - wk3c

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...

It's well known that for the likes of you,*everything* pertaining to
Morse code is mythical! Hell, you couldn't take advantage of any of it's
attributes if your very life depended on it!

I certainly could ... however, the probablilty of my life depending
on the use of Morse is smaller than that of my life being saved by a
lightning bolt that kills a great white shark that's trying to eat me in the
middle of the Sahara desert ...

Carl - wk3c