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BPL a reality in my area now!
Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay,
Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan KC8PMX Midland, Michigan |
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan KC8PMX Midland, Michigan Go to the sites. Check out the interference. If it's as bad as they say, write the local commercial radio stations to say they are being interfered with, write your congressman, and write the FCC. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message om... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan KC8PMX Midland, Michigan Go to the sites. Check out the interference. If it's as bad as they say, write the local commercial radio stations to say they are being interfered with, write your congressman, and write the FCC. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Exactly, must sent in complaints. Or the 'utilities' will say...."we got very few complaints" Dan/W4NTI |
Exactly. Also, don't just complain to the utilities as they will still deny
getting complaints. I wonder if they are hiring any of the lawyers from the tobacco companies LOL 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message hlink.net... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message om... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan KC8PMX Midland, Michigan Go to the sites. Check out the interference. If it's as bad as they say, write the local commercial radio stations to say they are being interfered with, write your congressman, and write the FCC. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Exactly, must sent in complaints. Or the 'utilities' will say...."we got very few complaints" Dan/W4NTI --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 10/9/03 |
Jim Hampton wrote:
Exactly. Also, don't just complain to the utilities as they will still deny getting complaints. I wonder if they are hiring any of the lawyers from the tobacco companies LOL A CC list for complaints: *Utility company *FCC (radio, telecom, and cable depts) *ARRL *your congresscritter *your senator *your state's PUC (public utilitues commission) *The senators or congressmen who fund the FCC *Various broadcasters, particularly those on TV channels 2, 3, 4 (as these are below 80MHz, the high end of BPL). Also any shortwave broadcasters in the USA except VOA (they are not allowed to care about reception inside the USA). *NTIA (who we share the 5MHz band with). |
In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes: Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan, If you have a 6 meter rig that can go mobile, you're set up to measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"Robert Casey" wrote in message ... *your state's PUC (public utilitues commission) It's PUD around here. Also any shortwave broadcasters in the USA except VOA (they are not allowed to care about reception inside the USA). Neither are any of them. |
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
... Exactly. Also, don't just complain to the utilities as they will still deny getting complaints. I wonder if they are hiring any of the lawyers from the tobacco companies LOL 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA The aggregate population that will be affected by the interference from BPL is minimal at best. Even if commercial interest is rolled up into the collective, there just ins't going to be the appearance of a majority negative impact on this one. BPL is a reality. Kim W5TIT |
"N2EY" wrote in message
... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan, If you have a 6 meter rig that can go mobile, you're set up to measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. 73 de Jim, N2EY heh heh. Yeah, and any ham worth being a ham would have a 6-meter rig that can go mobile so they can measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. Right? Ducking Kim W5TIT |
"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... Exactly. Also, don't just complain to the utilities as they will still deny getting complaints. I wonder if they are hiring any of the lawyers from the tobacco companies LOL 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA The aggregate population that will be affected by the interference from BPL is minimal at best. Even if commercial interest is rolled up into the collective, there just ins't going to be the appearance of a majority negative impact on this one. BPL is a reality. Kim W5TIT There has been at least one posting to one of the amateur newsgroups referencing an article by an independent economic analyst. He has evaluated BPL several times over the last 10 years at the request of various clients and in his opinion it will not really get off the ground regardless of technical feasibility. The investment exceeds the projected return. Other means of delivering Broadband are much more cost effective. Only time will tell though but I hope he is right. Keep in mind that the test sites are only designed to demonstrate technical feasibility not cost effectiveness. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ... "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan, If you have a 6 meter rig that can go mobile, you're set up to measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. 73 de Jim, N2EY heh heh. Yeah, and any ham worth being a ham would have a 6-meter rig that can go mobile so they can measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. Right? Ducking Kim W5TIT Gawd I wish she would change her pills. Dan/W4NTI |
"James Wilson" wrote in message . .. What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? The ARRL website has a recording. It would make things like the PA QSO party (and other communications) nearly impossible. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can
be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message om... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan KC8PMX Midland, Michigan Go to the sites. Check out the interference. If it's as bad as they say, write the local commercial radio stations to say they are being interfered with, write your congressman, and write the FCC. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Ryan, et al, PLEASE coordinate with Ed Hare, ... and don't "write/contact your local commercial radio stations" UNLESS they ACTUALLY ARE being interfered with AND you are ABSOLUTELY SURE it's BPL. It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that any reports/complaints of "BPL interference" are REALLY BPL ... the amateur community is being accused by BPL proponents of "exaggerating the problem (so the ARRL can raise money ... which is absurd ... if there weren't a threat they wouldn't HAVE to raise money to defend against it ...). We CANNOT AFFORD to miss-identify other sources of interference as "BPL" or we just lend credence to the BPL folks' claim that we're "crying wolf." I cannot overemphasize the importance of these points. 73, Carl - wk3c |
Please see my previous message about the necessity of making SURE
that any complaints of "BPL interference" REALLY ARE BPL. 73, Carl - wk3c "Robert Casey" wrote in message ... Jim Hampton wrote: Exactly. Also, don't just complain to the utilities as they will still deny getting complaints. I wonder if they are hiring any of the lawyers from the tobacco companies LOL A CC list for complaints: *Utility company *FCC (radio, telecom, and cable depts) *ARRL *your congresscritter *your senator *your state's PUC (public utilitues commission) *The senators or congressmen who fund the FCC *Various broadcasters, particularly those on TV channels 2, 3, 4 (as these are below 80MHz, the high end of BPL). Also any shortwave broadcasters in the USA except VOA (they are not allowed to care about reception inside the USA). *NTIA (who we share the 5MHz band with). |
"James Wilson" wrote in message . .. What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? The video on the ARRL website shows a couple of BPL variants ... one that uses SS and another (test area 4) that uses OFDM. They sound different. Again, I cannot over-emphasize the importance of making SURE that complaints of "BPL interference" are REALLY from BPL and not some other source. The LAST thing we need now is a bunch of people "crying wolf." (Real complaints are one thing, crying wolf will only HURT us.) 73, Carl - wk3c |
The LAST thing we need now is a bunch of people "crying wolf."
(Real complaints are one thing, crying wolf will only HURT us.) 73, Carl - wk3c Start crying to the FCC about anything. If your Mower quits, call the FCC and tell them its BPL causing it. Even if BPL is no where near you. If your Tires go flat or LOW on AIR, tell them you saw Arcing from the Power lines to your tires and it was BPL that did it. THE MORE COMPLAINTS THE BETTER. |
We CANNOT AFFORD to miss-identify other sources of interference as "BPL"
or we just lend credence to the BPL folks' claim that we're "crying wolf." What ever you do, STOP listening to KARL, hes just trying to get credit for NCI. |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan, If you have a 6 meter rig that can go mobile, you're set up to measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. 73 de Jim, N2EY Not all of the BPL "pilot" deployments are using spectrum as high as 6m, though they want to ultimately use "2-80 MHz" if they had large commercial deployments of paying customers. Carl - wk3c |
In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes: "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan, If you have a 6 meter rig that can go mobile, you're set up to measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. 73 de Jim, N2EY heh heh. Yeah, and any ham worth being a ham would have a 6-meter rig that can go mobile so they can measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. Right? IIRC, Ryan has mentioned being active on 6 meters. So there's a good chance he has such a rig already. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"WA8ULX" wrote in message ... We CANNOT AFFORD to miss-identify other sources of interference as "BPL" or we just lend credence to the BPL folks' claim that we're "crying wolf." What ever you do, STOP listening to KARL, hes just trying to get credit for NCI. As most of you know, I normally simply ignore Bruce's idiotic rants, but, just to set the record straight, my activity vis a vis BPL has nothing to do with NCI ... therefore, there is NO attempt to "get credit for NCI" for anything I do related to the BPL threat ... Carl - wk3c |
just to set the record straight, my activity vis a vis BPL has nothing
to do with NCI ... therefore, there is NO attempt to "get credit for NCI" for anything I do related to the BPL threat ... Carl - wk3c Then BPL is a sure thing with Karl at the Helm |
In article .net, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes: Kim W5TIT Gawd I wish she would change her pills. I wish you would start taking some... :-) |
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BULL****.
Nowhere in Carl's work to document BPL have I seen any mention of the code test, nor NCI. It doesnt matter what he says, hes still mr NCI. |
"Len Over 21" wrote in message ... In article .net, "Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes: Kim W5TIT Gawd I wish she would change her pills. I wish you would start taking some... :-) Have I rattled your cage a bit Lenny ? I sure hope so. And BTW I could care less what you think or say. I just hope I annoy the crap out of you. Dan/W4NTI |
www.arrl.org follow the links.
And yes its much worse than a contest. You wont even hear the contesters. Dan/W4NTI "James Wilson" wrote in message . .. What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! |
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"Dick Carroll" wrote in message ... Carl R. Stevenson wrote: "James Wilson" wrote in message . .. What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? The video on the ARRL website shows a couple of BPL variants ... one that uses SS and another (test area 4) that uses OFDM. They sound different. Again, I cannot over-emphasize the importance of making SURE that complaints of "BPL interference" are REALLY from BPL and not some other source. The LAST thing we need now is a bunch of people "crying wolf." (Real complaints are one thing, crying wolf will only HURT us.) 73, Carl - wk3c You raise an interesting question, Carl. How exactly should the average ham go about proving that the RFI is indeed BPL, when the BPL people say "That's not us!'?? BPL has a unique "signature" (in the spectral/time domains) that can be used to ID it. Since there are different systems (SS from main.net and OFDM from Amperion, for example) they have different signatures, which are distinct from other sources of interference and more traditional power line noise (of course the utilities are responsible for fixing the latter, too ... though their record is poor). Carl - wk3c |
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:27:27 -0400, a 32 bit process
wrote: On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:56:50 GMT, "James Wilson" wrote: What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? It almost sounds like a geiger counter, but a lot louder and the clicking is quicker in pace. That is a really good description of precipitation/snow static, but the speed *usually* varies. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message om... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan KC8PMX Midland, Michigan Go to the sites. Check out the interference. If it's as bad as they say, write the local commercial radio stations to say they are being interfered with, write your congressman, and write the FCC. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE The Bay, Saginaw and Midland clubs are going to work together on that...... Strength in numbers, at least locally. -- Ryan, KC8PMX FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!) --. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-. ... --. .... - . .-. ... |
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:27:27 -0400, a 32 bit process
wrote: On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:56:50 GMT, "James Wilson" wrote: What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? It almost sounds like a geiger counter, but a lot louder and the clicking is quicker in pace. After having gone to the ARRL site and listened to the examples, all I can say is it sounds just like precipitation static and/or loose connections. No way would I be able to identify one from the other. I'm just going to have to complain every time I hear noise and make recordings. If it's noisy enough to be a problem it should be fixed. BTW, most of the links failed and instead I ended up hijacked to QSL dot net. (they call it redirecting, but if I didn't select to go there, I don't want to go there...I'll settle for the 404 screen instead of giving some one advertizing points.) Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) |
Yeah Jim.... six meter all mode. It's hard as hell to use it right now with
the powerline interference in this freakin' county even before they implement this whole BPL stuff!!!!! -- Ryan, KC8PMX FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!) --. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-. ... --. .... - . .-. ... "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan, If you have a 6 meter rig that can go mobile, you're set up to measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"James Wilson" wrote in message ...
What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can be identified? The ARRL website is loaded with video and/or audio files which will clearly demonstrate what the various forms of BPL signals sound like and the havoc they generate throughout the HF spectrum. http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/#Video Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? If BBL is broadly implemented you won't have to worry about the PAQP. There won't be a PAQP. BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! w3rv |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan, If you have a 6 meter rig that can go mobile, you're set up to measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. 73 de Jim, N2EY Not all of the BPL "pilot" deployments are using spectrum as high as 6m, though they want to ultimately use "2-80 MHz" if they had large commercial deployments of paying customers. Carl - wk3c Either way, there are the obvious harmonics to consider as well. Granted, not as strong as the original offending signal, but a problem non-the-less. I will let ya all know what happens along the way with all of this. As stated earlier, it would be much cheaper of an investment to get the phone companies (Ameritech in my case) to put more switching stations to make DSL more available....... -- Ryan, KC8PMX FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!) --. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-. ... --. .... - . .-. ... |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message om... "Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ... Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan KC8PMX Midland, Michigan Go to the sites. Check out the interference. If it's as bad as they say, write the local commercial radio stations to say they are being interfered with, write your congressman, and write the FCC. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Ryan, et al, PLEASE coordinate with Ed Hare, ... and don't "write/contact your local commercial radio stations" UNLESS they ACTUALLY ARE being interfered with AND you are ABSOLUTELY SURE it's BPL. Yes and no Carl.... if it makes it impossible to RECIEVE our local broadcast stations, I would think that the local broadcasters would be VERY interested to know that nobody is getting thier signal, except cable subscribers. -- Ryan, KC8PMX FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!) --. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-. ... --. .... - . .-. ... |
In article ,
says... What does BPL sound like? Can someone post a wav file somewhere so it can be identified? Is it worse that the Pennsylvania QSO party? The ARRL web site (www.arrl.org) has a video that can be downloaded that shows how severe this interference can be. They took a vehicle equipped with HF equipment and drove around areas where BPL is in use as a test program. The noise levels are horrendous. -- -- //Steve// Steve Silverwood, KB6OJS Fountain Valley, CA Email: Web: http://home.earthlink.net/~kb6ojs_steve |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ...
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX" writes: Just found out today listening to a local, reputable radio station that Bay, Saginaw and Midland Counties in Michigan are going to be "test sites" for BPL, at least for Michigan. I don't know when it will be an actual reality, as opposed to being in the planning stages, but will keep current with their project! Ryan, If you have a 6 meter rig that can go mobile, you're set up to measure/observe (and report) BPL interference. 73 de Jim, N2EY Not all of the BPL "pilot" deployments are using spectrum as high as 6m, though they want to ultimately use "2-80 MHz" if they had large commercial deployments of paying customers. Harmonics, Carl, harmonics. Those pulses sounded awful clicky on the video. You heard 'em yourself - what do you speculate their harmonic content is like? If it can be shown that thew harmonics are a source of RFI as well as the fundamentals, won't that be another tool to use against BPL? I mentioned 6 meters because Ryan mentioned his interst in that band. 'BPL - it's not just an HF problem'... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
After having gone to the ARRL site and listened to the examples, all I can say is it sounds just like precipitation static and/or loose connections. No way would I be able to identify one from the other. I'm just going to have to complain every time I hear noise and make recordings. If it's noisy enough to be a problem it should be fixed. Any hope of us non-arrl members getting something to listen to? |
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