"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message thlink.net...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Jack Twilley
writes:

I can understand why Novice and Technician Plus required five words
per minute -- the treaty and all -- but why did General require
thirteen words per minute and Amateur Extra twenty words per minute?

Is there a real reason?

12 to 13 wpm is generally agreed to be above the speed where things such
as
"counting dits" work for most people. It's the beginning of the skills
which
take one to higher speeds

20 wpm derives from the old 1923-24 "Amateur Extra First Class" which
chose 20
as double the old 10 wpm standard. It was reintroduced in 1951 when the
current
Amateur Extra class was created.

Both speeds are far below those required of experienced professional Morse
operators.

73 de Jim, N2EY

One more thing Jim. 20 wpm is above another 'threshold', which is at about
18wpm for most folks. So you gotta know it to do it.

Dan/W4NTI


Welp Dan, as I strap on my dragon armor and jousting butt-plug, please
orient me toward the 1951 anachronism of the 1923 AEFC standard.

didididididit.

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
thlink.net...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Jack Twilley
writes:

I can understand why Novice and Technician Plus required five words
per minute -- the treaty and all -- but why did General require
thirteen words per minute and Amateur Extra twenty words per minute?

Is there a real reason?

12 to 13 wpm is generally agreed to be above the speed where things
such
as
"counting dits" work for most people. It's the beginning of the skills
which
take one to higher speeds

20 wpm derives from the old 1923-24 "Amateur Extra First Class" which
chose 20
as double the old 10 wpm standard. It was reintroduced in 1951 when
the
current
Amateur Extra class was created.

Both speeds are far below those required of experienced professional
Morse
operators.

73 de Jim, N2EY

One more thing Jim. 20 wpm is above another 'threshold', which is at
about
18wpm for most folks. So you gotta know it to do it.

Dan/W4NTI


Welp Dan, as I strap on my dragon armor and jousting butt-plug, please
orient me toward the 1951 anachronism of the 1923 AEFC standard.

didididididit.

Lets see if you can understand this then;

If I want any crap out of you, I will squeeze your head.

Have a lousy day.

Dan/W4NTI

"Brian" wrote in message
om...


Welp Dan, as I strap on my dragon armor and jousting butt-plug, please
orient me toward the 1951 anachronism of the 1923 AEFC standard.

didididididit.

LOL, well said.

Don't forget, too, when you drive to the testing site to take the morse code
test you have to first hand-crank the engine of your horseless carriage to
get it started.

*OOOPS*, i'm sorry, that too is outdated. They have invented electrically
driven starters since then. Isn't it neat how old ways are replaced by new
more efficient & useful ones? *OOOOP*, my bad again... I forgot about
the PCTA crybabies.

Clint

Don't forget, too, when you drive to the testing site to take the morse
code
test you have to first hand-crank the engine of your horseless carriage to
get it started.

*OOOPS*, i'm sorry, that too is outdated. They have invented electrically
driven starters since then. Isn't it neat how old ways are replaced by new
more efficient & useful ones? *OOOOP*, my bad again... I forgot about
the PCTA crybabies.

Clint

Here we go again with this standard transmission crap ...this time it has
degenerated to starters ....

Clint's logic ... no cars today have crank starters ... therefore CW is in
that same category ...but wait ..why are there so many CW ham signals on the
air ... ????

Clint am I a "crybaby" because I see a useful skill i.e. the 2nd most used
amateur mode badmouthed in the most illogical , immature and counter
productive manner.

I really think that in any endeavor there are those for whatever reason like
"****ing in the punchbowl". I very rarely operate SSB, look at or transmit
pix, never work
moon bounce or hunt for transmitters or any of the myriad of sub-groups that
this service offers. But thank God that they are there ... a facet in the
jewel that are available to me when and if I desire.

Clint I certainly hope that when the test is dropped that the myriad of
those new ops will bring into play those new "electric starter" modes that
"will always get through". I personally would not bet the kids milk money
on that assumption.

73 God Bless KI3R Tom Popovic Belle Vernon PA

"garigue" wrote in message
news:59Gkb.825619$Ho3.226493@sccrnsc03...

Here we go again with this standard transmission crap ...this time it has
degenerated to starters ....

and your point being? that just means there are MANY examples of why
CW testing is outdated.


Clint's logic ... no cars today have crank starters ... therefore CW is in
that same category ...but wait ..why are there so many CW ham signals on
the
air ... ????

no problem with use of morse code. It's code TESTING that's outdated
and is going to be removed.


Clint am I a "crybaby" because I see a useful skill i.e. the 2nd most used
amateur mode badmouthed in the most illogical , immature and counter
productive manner.

2nd most used? that's debatable.. in fact, i'd be willing to bet it's far
from
the most used. AND, i'll play my own devil's advocate; it's widely agreed,
with little dissention, that code use is on the decline... therefore, even
IF it's
as you assert (again, playing my own devil's advocate), this couldn't
possibly
be true indefinitely as it's use shrinks and deminishes.


I really think that in any endeavor there are those for whatever reason
like
"****ing in the punchbowl". I very rarely operate SSB, look at or
transmit
pix, never work
moon bounce or hunt for transmitters or any of the myriad of sub-groups
that
this service offers. But thank God that they are there ... a facet in the
jewel that are available to me when and if I desire.

and thank god CW is there, for those who CHOOSE to operate it.
It just needs not be tested anymore, and won't be for much longer.

It's going to be removed.

Clint

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...

"garigue" wrote in message
news:59Gkb.825619$Ho3.226493@sccrnsc03...

Here we go again with this standard transmission crap ...this time it
has
degenerated to starters ....

and your point being? that just means there are MANY examples of why
CW testing is outdated.

Huh ???? No Clint that is just a repeat of the same old crap I have been
seeing for years on this group in a vain attept to prove CW is in its death
throws.

Clint's logic ... no cars today have crank starters ... therefore CW is
in
that same category ...but wait ..why are there so many CW ham signals on
the
air ... ????

no problem with use of morse code. It's code TESTING that's outdated
and is going to be removed.


Well then say that testing with out reference to the act of CW operation
which I see as the target of the no-code folks ....as said before NCI
.....not NCTI

Clint am I a "crybaby" because I see a useful skill i.e. the 2nd most
used
amateur mode badmouthed in the most illogical , immature and counter
productive manner.

2nd most used? that's debatable.. in fact, i'd be willing to bet it's far
from
the most used.

What did I say ....2nd most used ...don't follow your logic there Clint



AND, i'll play my own devil's advocate; it's widely agreed,
with little dissention, that code use is on the decline... therefore, even
IF it's
as you assert (again, playing my own devil's advocate), this couldn't
possibly
be true indefinitely as it's use shrinks and deminishes.

Can't figure out that statement Clint ....I would agree that the mode is not
used as much as it was in the past but I would wonder with the internet if
the service as a whole was taking a hit. I am not bemoaning that happening
as life is life and change is change. There are a lot of wholesome hobbies
or endeavors out there Clint but I hope the service remains viable for the
next generation to enjoy. Perhaps that will come with testing of CW being
eliminated ....I hope that a positive impact will happen ..but again I
wouldn't bet the kid's college fund on it.

God Bless 73 Tom Popovic KI3R Belle Vernon Pa

"garigue" wrote in message
. net...

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...

"garigue" wrote in message
news:59Gkb.825619$Ho3.226493@sccrnsc03...

Here we go again with this standard transmission crap ...this time it
has
degenerated to starters ....

and your point being? that just means there are MANY examples of why
CW testing is outdated.

Huh ???? No Clint that is just a repeat of the same old crap I have
been
seeing for years on this group in a vain attept to prove CW is in its
death
throws.

Clint's logic ... no cars today have crank starters ... therefore CW
is
in
that same category ...but wait ..why are there so many CW ham signals
on
the
air ... ????

no problem with use of morse code. It's code TESTING that's outdated
and is going to be removed.


Well then say that testing with out reference to the act of CW operation
which I see as the target of the no-code folks ....as said before NCI
....not NCTI

Clint am I a "crybaby" because I see a useful skill i.e. the 2nd most
used
amateur mode badmouthed in the most illogical , immature and counter
productive manner.

2nd most used? that's debatable.. in fact, i'd be willing to bet it's
far
from
the most used.

What did I say ....2nd most used ...don't follow your logic there Clint



AND, i'll play my own devil's advocate; it's widely agreed,
with little dissention, that code use is on the decline... therefore,
even
IF it's
as you assert (again, playing my own devil's advocate), this couldn't
possibly
be true indefinitely as it's use shrinks and deminishes.


It is NOT widely agreed that code use is on the decline. I am happy to
report that articles earlier this on contest participation on the ARRL site
show that there has a been a 20% rise in participation in the CW contests
from the previous year while participation in voice contests stayed flat
(i.e. no growth).

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"garigue" wrote in message
. net...

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...

"garigue" wrote in message
news:59Gkb.825619$Ho3.226493@sccrnsc03...

Here we go again with this standard transmission crap ...this time
it
has
degenerated to starters ....

and your point being? that just means there are MANY examples of why
CW testing is outdated.

Huh ???? No Clint that is just a repeat of the same old crap I have
been
seeing for years on this group in a vain attept to prove CW is in its
death
throws.

Clint's logic ... no cars today have crank starters ... therefore CW
is
in
that same category ...but wait ..why are there so many CW ham
signals
on
the
air ... ????

no problem with use of morse code. It's code TESTING that's outdated
and is going to be removed.


Well then say that testing with out reference to the act of CW operation
which I see as the target of the no-code folks ....as said before NCI
....not NCTI

Clint am I a "crybaby" because I see a useful skill i.e. the 2nd
most
used
amateur mode badmouthed in the most illogical , immature and counter
productive manner.

2nd most used? that's debatable.. in fact, i'd be willing to bet it's
far
from
the most used.

What did I say ....2nd most used ...don't follow your logic there Clint



AND, i'll play my own devil's advocate; it's widely agreed,
with little dissention, that code use is on the decline... therefore,
even
IF it's
as you assert (again, playing my own devil's advocate), this couldn't
possibly
be true indefinitely as it's use shrinks and deminishes.


It is NOT widely agreed that code use is on the decline. I am happy to
report that articles earlier this on contest participation on the ARRL
site
show that there has a been a 20% rise in participation in the CW contests
from the previous year while participation in voice contests stayed flat
(i.e. no growth).

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Shhhhhhh !! Don't tell the facts, it will confuse the NCI crowd.

Dan/W4NTI