"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message et...
"Brian Kelly" wrote:


. . . .

If the Soviets had
not already detected the plane and sent aircraft to intercept, they
certainly would have after being contacted by NATO. The Soviets, for
whatever reason, did not shoot down that plane. Whatever the reasons, it was
certainly not because he had penetrated Soviet air defenses undetected.

I've never dug into the details of who did or did not do exactly what
during that stunt but whatever actually happened is recorded recent
history which is inarguable. Versus you making the bunch of
suppositions and assumptions above instead presenting any historical
facts which refute my comments. That simply does not fly.

If in fact NATO and the Soviets were so chummy and the Soviets knew
the kid was enroute then you explain why the Kremlin very publically
punished a flock of their high-level air defense officers for not
detecting and shooting the kid down.

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

w3rv

Brian Kelly wrote:
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
. net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote:


. . . .

If the Soviets had
not already detected the plane and sent aircraft to intercept, they
certainly would have after being contacted by NATO. The Soviets, for
whatever reason, did not shoot down that plane. Whatever the reasons, it was
certainly not because he had penetrated Soviet air defenses undetected.

I've never dug into the details of who did or did not do exactly what
during that stunt but whatever actually happened is recorded recent
history which is inarguable. Versus you making the bunch of
suppositions and assumptions above instead presenting any historical
facts which refute my comments. That simply does not fly.

More than this, his assumption that the rest of it relies on, that
Rust flew directly and non-stop over the East/West German border to
Moscow (what's that, more than 1500 miles?) in a Cessna 172, seems
a bit silly.

Rust actually entered the Soviet Union after a stop in Helsinki, which
means he crossed into the air space either from the Gulf of Finland
or the Finnish land border, so NATO had nothing to do with it. As for
why the Soviet border defenses didn't pick him up, Rust himself believes
it may be because the day he flew (May 28?) happened to be a holiday for
the Soviet military, and this may have left their defenses where he entered
undermanned and/or inattentive.

Dennis Ferguson

"Dennis Ferguson" wrote:

Rust actually entered the Soviet Union after a stop in
Helsinki, which means he crossed into the air space
either from the Gulf of Finland or the Finnish land
border, so NATO had nothing to do with it. (snip)


His flight started in Hamburg Germany, with a stop in Helsinki for fuel.
According to every report I've read, he crossed into East Germany on the
border with West Germany. To do this without detection, he would have had to
avoid United States, NATO, and Soviet radar. In my opinion, that was
impossible. Therefore, there is more to this story that has not been told.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message ink.net...
"Dennis Ferguson" wrote:

Rust actually entered the Soviet Union after a stop in
Helsinki, which means he crossed into the air space
either from the Gulf of Finland or the Finnish land
border, so NATO had nothing to do with it. (snip)


His flight started in Hamburg Germany, with a stop in Helsinki for fuel.
According to every report I've read, he crossed into East Germany on the
border with West Germany. To do this without detection, he would have had to
avoid United States, NATO, and Soviet radar. In my opinion, that was
impossible. Therefore, there is more to this story that has not been told.

Yeah, right. It's a "secret". Do you really think that this "scam" you
propose included the sacrificial canning of Soviet Generals to cover
the real truth? Makes no sense at all.

I have enough stick, pedal and hanger bum time to know that if you
plan your flight properly and keep your head down while flying a light
A/C the chances of detection by ground-based radar are quite low if
you know what you're doing.
Ask the drug dealers who have flown DC-6s into this country undetected
how they did it. You can bet yer bippy that the kid was not flying at
10,000 AGL with his transponder squawking his S/N, yes?

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

w3rv

"Brian Kelly" wrote:

Yeah, right. It's a "secret". Do you really think
that this "scam" you propose included the
sacrificial canning of Soviet Generals to cover
the real truth? Makes no sense at all.


In typical Russian fashion, Gobachov used the incident to eliminate a few
Soviet officers he didn't like (officers appointed by his predecessor).
Besides, if you're going to use this to support your position, you should
also point out that the official reason they were fired was for not taking
more aggressive action against the intruder, not for a failure to detect the
intruder. Of course, I'm sure you see that as just propaganda, while
anything that fits your version of the story is not.


I have enough stick, pedal and hanger bum time
to know that if you plan your flight properly and
keep your head down while flying a light A/C
the chances of detection by ground-based radar
are quite low if you know what you're doing.
Ask the drug dealers who have flown DC-6s into
this country undetected how they did it. You can
bet yer bippy that the kid was not flying at 10,000
AGL with his transponder squawking his S/N, yes?


That area (Eastern Europe and Western Russia) was perhaps the most heavily
monitored region of the world at the time, by tactical and strategic radar,
surveillance aircraft, and satellite. The Gulf/Mexico region is not nearly
as well monitored (something the military and drug enforcement personnel has
repeatedly complained about). I seriously doubt anything larger than an
insect could have flown over Eastern Europe or Western Russia at the time
without being spotted. However, if you choose to believe otherwise, that is
certainly your right. Therefore, I will not continue to argue a contrary
position. Take care.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
link.net...
"Dennis Ferguson" wrote:

Rust actually entered the Soviet Union after a stop in
Helsinki, which means he crossed into the air space
either from the Gulf of Finland or the Finnish land
border, so NATO had nothing to do with it. (snip)


His flight started in Hamburg Germany, with a stop in Helsinki for fuel.
According to every report I've read, he crossed into East Germany on the
border with West Germany. To do this without detection, he would have had
to
avoid United States, NATO, and Soviet radar. In my opinion, that was
impossible. Therefore, there is more to this story that has not been told.

Yeah, right. It's a "secret". Do you really think that this "scam" you
propose included the sacrificial canning of Soviet Generals to cover
the real truth? Makes no sense at all.

I have enough stick, pedal and hanger bum time to know that if you
plan your flight properly and keep your head down while flying a light
A/C the chances of detection by ground-based radar are quite low if
you know what you're doing.
Ask the drug dealers who have flown DC-6s into this country undetected
how they did it. You can bet yer bippy that the kid was not flying at
10,000 AGL with his transponder squawking his S/N, yes?

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
link.net...
"Dennis Ferguson" wrote:

Rust actually entered the Soviet Union after a stop in
Helsinki, which means he crossed into the air space
either from the Gulf of Finland or the Finnish land
border, so NATO had nothing to do with it. (snip)

His flight started in Hamburg Germany, with a stop in Helsinki for fuel.
According to every report I've read, he crossed into East Germany on the
border with West Germany. To do this without detection, he would have had
to
avoid United States, NATO, and Soviet radar. In my opinion, that was
impossible. Therefore, there is more to this story that has not been told.

Yeah, right. It's a "secret". Do you really think that this "scam" you
propose included the sacrificial canning of Soviet Generals to cover
the real truth? Makes no sense at all.

I have enough stick, pedal and hanger bum time to know that if you
plan your flight properly and keep your head down while flying a light
A/C the chances of detection by ground-based radar are quite low if
you know what you're doing.
Ask the drug dealers who have flown DC-6s into this country undetected
how they did it. You can bet yer bippy that the kid was not flying at
10,000 AGL with his transponder squawking his S/N, yes?

Go for it, Ace. Tell us all how it was... :-)

This going to be another one of those "bear shooting for naval
intelligence" things?

Of course you carry a radar receiver in your ultra-light and can
TELL whenever you are swept by a radar beam... :-)


Oh, and by the way, this sort of thing isn't close to amateur radio
policy, is it? :-)

LHA

"Brian Kelly" wrote:

(snip) Versus you making the bunch of suppositions
and assumptions above instead presenting any historical
facts which refute my comments. (snip)


Those suppositions and assumptions are based on the fact that the airspace
in question (Europe, Eastern Europe, and Eastern Russia) was monitored by
some of the most sophisticated radar facilities in the world - radar
facilities belonging to the United States, NATO, and the Soviet Union. To
avoid mistakes, communications between those three were commonplace whenever
an unexplained incident occurred. To do what you say, this person would have
had to avoid detection by all three, which I believe was absolutely
impossible. Instead, like many military situations of the time, I suspect a
lot happened behind the scenes that was never, and may never be, made known
to the general public. Of course, that's just what I believe. You're free to
believe what you want.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/