"N2EY" wrote:

Let's do the math, shall we?

Say you were making $4000/yr (about $2/hr, ) back then.


I don't remember what I was paid back then (that was a long time, and a
lot of jobs, ago). All I do remember is that it was just barely above
minimum wage. But, for the purposes of your example, that salary figure is
probably good enough.


That's $334/month. Out of that came rent ($100), furnishing
($20/mo?) food ($100?) car ($100 including gas and insurance?).
Leaves $13.


Hey, we were hippies back then - we didn't pay that much for furniture and
much of what we had was homemade. ;-)

The car payments were also less than that. No insurance and about a tank
of gas a week (we rode bicycles almost as much as we drove the car - another
hippy thing).


That $320 from the VA was almost equal to your salary.


Yes, it was. And it was a real disaster when that check didn't arrive on
time for whatever reason (it didn't twice).


At $2/hr, the rent cost 50 hours' work. I presume utilities
were included.


I think everything except gas was included. We paid the gas bill
separately. But that was about it (we couldn't afford a phone).


Today 50 hrs work at minimum wage is what - $300?


Can you imagine even trying to rent an apartment in Southern California
for $300 today (just that - forget the other stuff)? I guess one could be
found but I probably wouldn't want to live in it. It would probably take
about a hundred hours of work at minimum wage today to find a decent
apartment in that area.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Mike Coslo" wrote:

In 1972, my $2.40 per hour kept me in an apartment,
food, clothing, and even allowed me to buy a motorcycle.
That was .20 above the minimum wage.


Yep, that sounds right. You know, thinking back, I believe I was actually
happier back then. I didn't have much, but I don't remember feeling anything
was missing in my life. Perhaps I'm getting too old to remember things back
then clearly. Maybe I'll start a late mid-life crisis and go looking for
those youthful days again. I remember this one girl...


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

Let me make this as plain as possible. (snip)


You explained it just fine in the last message. I just don't agree
subsidies alone were the deciding factors - I suspect tariffs played a much
bigger role than you suggest.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"N2EY" wrote:

As I understand the tariffs, they were/are only
imposed beyond a certain number of vehicles/yr
imported. (snip)


I don't know the details of the various tariffs, so I'll take your word
for it, Jim.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
See Jim? Give a dog a bone and he buries it. When someone submits
something contrary to the way Dwight wants everything to be--*without*
substantiated concepts I might add--by *his* own admission--he suddenly
gets
short and impatient with others.

Kim W5TIT

Kim, you made my morning with this little tidbit. "Give a dog a bone and he
buries it." I can hardly type, I'm laughing so hard.

73 de Bert
WA2SI

P.S. Tried to e-mail you. Could you drop me one, if possible?

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

Now I see what you are doing. You are OVER reacting
to any little thing just to try and hang on to whatever
concept it is you have, Dwight. "Nationwide search?"
That is hysterical! (snip)


Kim, at least try to think before posting. When you search for something
on the internet, you're not exactly limiting your search to your hometown,
now are you? The search is nation-wide, and even world-wide. Duh!


It took me less than 2 minutes to "happen" to look last night
while I was at Wal-Mart. Now, true, they are a nationwide
outlet so you may have to travel the nation before you find
one of those stores--but they had more than one choice of
metal fans. So, don't know why you can't find 'em.


Please provide the names of those fans. I've searched Wal-Mart several
times, and taken several of their fans apart, and they do not have an all
metal fan. The motor is the most critical part since that is what wears out
so quickly. In each of the fans I took apart, major internal parts (gears,
bearings, motor mounts, and so on) were plastic, not metal. Of course, I
don't expect much more than that from Wal-Mart. They sell cheap fans. But I
even found similar materials in much more expensive fans at stores that
specialize in products targeted towards business and industry.


'Scuse me? Surely you are basing the content of your
opinions on at least *some* kind of facts that you've
either experienced or heard, or whatever, over the course
of your life. In fact, I bet I can find a comment you made
to me in this thread that lends itself to not basing my
opinions from out of thin air! (snip)


Do so, Kim. Show me where I've said anything of the sort to you (the
actual message, not a quote you've taken out of context). While I've
occasionally asked someone for details on something he or she claims to be
fact, I don't believe I've ever asked anyone to provide facts to support an
opinion.


And, if you wish to be a proponent of something, it's
nearly imperative that you be able to convince others
why it's a good idea. Maybe that's why your ideas
flop; and why the American people don't change things
as they need to be changed.


I'm also not here to be a proponent of anything, Kim. When are you going
to understand this is just a newsgroup, not a meeting of Congress? None of
us have the power to change anything by simply posting to this newsgroup.
Instead, we're simply discussing issues, comparing opinions, and perhaps
getting a difference insight in the process.


See Jim? Give a dog a bone and he buries it. When
someone submits something contrary to the way Dwight
wants everything to be--*without* substantiated
concepts I might add--by *his* own admission--he
suddenly gets short and impatient with others.


Hello? Where have I been short and impatient with anyone other than you,
Kim? I stated what I believe to be bloody obvious - "short of setting up a
dictatorship, you're never going to get even a significant portion of the
280 million people in this country to shop the way you want." I don't think
Jim would disagree with that and you don't even address it in your response.


So, as in real debate, let's bring this full-circle. You
are stating that consumers--presumably *American*
consumers--are too lazy and/or incapable of business
or economic awareness to decide "smart" shopping
decisions?! (snip)


No, that is not what I said, Kim. I said exactly what I meant - "consumers
in general [and, since I'm a consumer, that would certainly include me] have
neither the business awareness or economic awareness to make those types of
decisions on their own." I'm certainly not aware of all the business
activities and interactions of the many companies whose products I purchase.
Likewise, I'm not fully aware of the economic policies and practices of this
country or the countries we trade with. Such an awareness would require an
army of employees and the financial resources of the government just to
research. Court cases involving such issues, centering on just a single
large company, have taken years to resolve.


They sure do. And many do. We live in an information
glut these days. If someone can't get information they
are looking for, they need to ask someone how to find it-
-because it's pretty much there and it's there fairly
quickly.


Is that true, Kim? You said to ask someone. Okay, since you claim such
information can be easily and quickly found, I'll ask you and put your claim
to the test. I'm going shopping this morning to buy six products - Mary Jane
Bread, Jiffy Pop Popcorn, Pam Cooking Spray, Brawney Napkins, and some
screws and plywood from Home Depot (whatever brands they carry). Please
provide me with information about each of these products, the companies, and
the overall industries, involved. This should include all information needed
to be a truly informed, "concerned," shopper - manufacturing processes,
product safety, environmental issues, financial information, ties with other
companies both here and overseas, markets, details and backgrounds of owners
and senior management, employee composition, and so on. Since the
information is so easily and quickly found, this shouldn't take you more
than a few minutes (with the results posted here today). When you're
finished with that, then you can start on this evening's shopping lists - my
wife is going grocery shopping for a few dozen products and we're both later
going to the mall for another half dozen or so products.


Oh OK. It's always going to be the corporate entity's fault.
Now, speak of liberal slinging...


Did you suddenly lose the ability to comprehend what you've read, Kim? I
clearly said, "Business has _SOME_ responsibility in all this." Only you
could read that as "It's always..." their "...fault."


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Yeah..... that may be true but circumstances now have forced many to
suffer
with it as a "living" wage.


Yeah that's the same "victim" argument some of my friends made when I went
to college and they didn't. But I sacrificed to go to college. My parents
didn't pay for it.

I worked a minimum wage job, lived at home, did not buy a car, did not buy
records and so on. I put the money aside and did without so I could go to
college. So that "circumstances" argument is pretty shakey. And don't try
the "pregnant and alone teenager" argument either. I knew some of them in
college and they made it too.

People allow themselves to fail and become victims of circumstance.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


--
Ryan KC8PMX

Why is it one careless match can start a forest fire, but
it takes a whole box to start a barbecue?

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...

The
average wage around here, what is considered the alleged "living" or
minimum
wage is between $5.25-6.00 per hour.

Keep in mind that the minimum wage was NEVER intended to be a "living"
wage.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Dee,

You must be living in a "fairy tale" world if yo believe this to be still
true. It is a simple fact that there is not the same type of jobs
available
that were around in the 1965-1980's range of time. The changes in the
employment economy and shifts in employment trends are why. Take GM for
instance....... At least up here in the Tri- Cities and Flint, GM is
constantly cutting back, and even closing plants, not the opposite. Hell,
locally speaking, Dow Chemical and Dow Corning also have cut more than
half
their workforce in the past 15 years or so.


Economies, markets and jobs are always changing. This is nothing new. A
lot of us have had to change with them, rebuild our skills and move to not
only different jobs but different locations in the country to stay employed.

I've faced and made some hard economic choices in my life and did not and do
not expect the government to fix it for me or the world to stay static.
Security is and always has been an illusion. I've faced that a long time
ago and dealt with it.

Construction jobs around here suck, unless you hold "paper" you are
nothing
and still making the under 8 dollar an hour range wage, before taxes. I
can
bring up more examples if you want referring to my area if ya want.



So if they suck, why don't the people go elsewhere. People have
traditionally followed the job markets to get ahead. You can't make the
market come to you. That is an unrealistic fairy tail and illusion.

By the way, check the tax tables. Someone making $8 per hour or under and
has a family probably won't be paying any significant income taxes unless
their spouse is also working but even then their tax burden is still
minimal.


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:

Let me make this as plain as possible. (snip)


You explained it just fine in the last message. I just don't agree
subsidies alone were the deciding factors - I suspect tariffs played a
much
bigger role than you suggest.



Well I go by what the auto industry journals said at the time since they
were circulated around the workplace. I give more credence to those
analysts than I would my personal opinions as they had the actual data.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dwight Stewart wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote:

In 1972, my $2.40 per hour kept me in an apartment,
food, clothing, and even allowed me to buy a motorcycle.
That was .20 above the minimum wage.



Yep, that sounds right. You know, thinking back, I believe I was actually
happier back then. I didn't have much, but I don't remember feeling anything
was missing in my life. Perhaps I'm getting too old to remember things back
then clearly. Maybe I'll start a late mid-life crisis and go looking for
those youthful days again. I remember this one girl...

I don't know if I was happier then, but I was having a blast.

As for a mid-life crisis, remember you worked hard for it, you deserve
it, and no one is going to deprive you of it! 8^)

I hear the MLC car of choice is a BMW Z3. Almost makes me want to have
one so I can pick one up.

- Mike KB3EIA -