On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:51:36 -0600, "Kim W5TIT"
wrote:

"Larry Roll K3LT" wrote in message
...
In article et, "Dwight
Stewart" writes:


Actually, the Civil War wasn't about slavery, but I'll avoid an
unnecessary repetition of those facts. I'll instead point out that the
majority of blacks in this country today are not decendents of American
slaves - they, or their ancestors, entered this country in the 150 or so
years after slavery was abolished (the majority of those within the last
twenty years). Therefore, if you have a complaint, perhaps you should
focus
on those members of recent administrations who helped ease immigration
requirements, not on something that happened many decades ago. Both
political parties are responsible - the Democrats want voters and the
Republicans want cheap labor for big business.

I believe requirements for immigration and naturalization should be
extremely rigid, involving extensive background checks and a requirement
that the person immigrating have the means in place to make his/her
own living.


And, I believe the immigration laws are appropriate, although there is
probably room for improvement in the areas of process and validation
procedures. I think there are background checks in place as a matter of
policy--they just aren't done or aren't done adequately enough. We can put
all the laws and rules into place we want--it is getting them carried out
that is the problem.

Typical politically correct liberal open-border policy. This is
written into the Democratic playbook. (pandering to minorities).

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:07:43 GMT, "Dwight Stewart"
wrote:

"Hans K0HB" wrote:

To save you the effort of further imagining, here is
my position in three words.

"Race is irrelevant."

You seem to place great emphasis on race/ethnic
background; ipso facto, you're a racist.


You only say that because I'm white. If that were not the case, you'd be
saying the same thing to Condoleezza Rice (Nat, Sec, Advisor), Colin Powell
(Sec, of State), Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Mary Berry (Chair, US Com. on
Civil Rights), and a very long list of other minorities who think race and
race issues are very relevant in this country. Why should it be any less so
for whites? In reality, your open criticism of whites who talk about race,
without criticism of other races who do the same, only demonstrates your own
racism towards other whites.


Don't presume what Condi and Colin think just because of their skin
color. The only ones who make race an issue are Al Sharpton and Jesse
Jackson, both of whom who've never worked a day in their life or set
foot in a church.

Condi and Colin are where they are in life not because they didn't
shirk just to get ahead. On the other hand, in the civil rights
circles, every leader (Jesse, Al, and Kweisi Mfume) has used the race
issue to get where they are today, through tactics of intimidation and
extortion.

Does this make me racist? Hell no, it's the truth.

Stacey/AA7YA

--
"All persons, living or dead, are purely coincidental, and should not be
construed."
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
ink.net...

: Again, I firmly believe the ONLY reason some people won't do some jobs
is
: because of the wages paid. There are people in this country
(non-immigrants)
: willing to walk into the containment chamber of a nuclear reactor if the
pay
: is good enough. There are people (non-immigrants) willing to walk 500 ft
: high steel girders of a building construction site if the pay is good
: enough. There are people (non-immigrants) willing to place their lives on
: the line to protect you from crime if the pay is good enough. There are
: people (non-immigrants) willing to lay their lives on the line to defend
: this country if the pay is good enough. In other words, there are people
: (non-immigrants) willing to do any job, no matter how bad or how
dangerous,
: if the pay is good enough. For you to now say otherwise, and instead
insist
: Americans just won't work because they're too lazy or too uppish
(immigrants
: workers are needed instead), is a slap in the face of every hard working
: American.

¿Holy frijolé?

¿Are you saying that a resaranté dishwasher should be paid as nuclear
reactor worker?

I shall come to be on the next available transport!

BGO

"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message
link.net...
:
: Only if in objecting they raise an alarm only over Hispanic,
: Asian and African immigrants.
:
:
: They're the primary immigrants today, Dave. When talking about
: immigration, who would you rather I talk about - Aboriginal Australians?

"There is no racial bigotry here. I do not look down on ******s, kikes, wops
or greasers. Here, you are all equally worthless."

---Sgt. Hartman, Full Metal Jacket

"Dwight Stewart" wrote

In reality, your open criticism of whites who talk about race,
without criticism of other races who do the same, only demonstrates
your own racism towards other whites.

No, it only shows my utter disdain for biggoted lowlifes, regardless
of complexion. If the foo ****s......

Read my lips: Race is irrelevant.

With warmest personal regards,

de Hans, K0HB
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~k0hb

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

(snip) There's folks like that, Dwight. Yep, you're
right. There are folks who *will* do those jobs. But
they are in the minority and how ironic. Because it is
more the minority immigrant population that does
those jobs than a lot of US citizens.


I give up, Kim. You've convinced yourself American workers are garbage,
and immigrant workers are God's gift to the working world, and absolutely
nothing is going to change your mind. This fits right into the thinking of
many liberals who feel Americans deserve to be poor for all the bad things
they've done, while those poor, downtrodden, immigrants deserve all the
wealth they can get. And, while we sit here debating, wages for low to
medium income workers continue to decline while profits for big business
continues to grow - neither immigrants or a growing number of working
Americans can get decent paying jobs. At the same time, the factories moving
overseas are forcing more and more middle-aged and older workers out of
their jobs, adding to the numbers forced into lower paying jobs. And the
situation only gets increasingly hopeless as more and more people begin to
think like you. Where do you think this is all going to end, Kim? Do you
honestly believe big business is going to stop their efforts to drive down
wages at your doorstep - that this is never going to affect you or yours?
Even small businesses are going to feel the crunch as fewer can afford to
buy their products. If you can't see the inevitable outcome to all this,
you're simply not looking or are too shortsighted to see. And, with that, I
give up as I said before.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Hans K0HB" wrote:

No, it only shows my utter disdain for biggoted lowlifes,
regardless of complexion. If the foo ****s......


Read the definition of bigot and then explain how the sentence above
doesn't fit that definition, Hans.

Bigot (n.) One whose attitude or behavior expresses
intolerance, as because of race, religion, politics, etc.
(Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary)

By the way, "bigoted" is spelled with a single "g."


Read my lips: Race is irrelevant.


Repeating that is not going to change anything, Hans. Race issues are
everywhere in this country today and are not going to go away simply because
you want to bury your head in the sand and act like they don't exist.

While we're discussing definitions (and since you like to throw the word
"racism" around so much).

Racism (n.) An irrational belief or advocacy of the
superiority of a given group, people, or nation, usu.
ones own, on the basis of racial differences having
no scientific validity.
(Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary)

Kindly show me where I've expressed a belief in or advocated the
superiority of a group in this discussion, Hans. Simply discussing a
race-related issue in a newsgroup is not racism. As such, your charge of
racism is as patently false as your charge of bigotry.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

The Grandious Vizard of South Carolina wrote:

Bigot (n.) One whose attitude or behavior expresses
intolerance, as because of race, religion, politics, etc.
(Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary)

Racism (n.) An irrational belief or advocacy of the
superiority of a given group, people, or nation, usu.
ones own, on the basis of racial differences having
no scientific validity.
(Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary)

Looks to me like Mr. Funk and Mr. Wagnall pretty much have you nailed dead
on.

With kindest personal regards,

de Hans, K0HB
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~k0hb

"Dwight Stewart" wrote

And Hans prefers to make sly comments about a spelling error instead of
discussing the topic.

I've stated my position, and you haven't persuaded me that I'm wrong.
Nothing is left to discuss.

In fact, every new post from you more eloquently makes my point than I
possibly could myself.

With all kind wishes,

de Hans, K0HB
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~k0hb

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ...
But its perfectly okay to pay some union bum a ton of wages for doing a
repetitive task, (a skill that same 14 y.o. that passed a ham test could
do) therefore jacking the cost of a product, lets say a car for this
example, to a ridiculous price??? (actually both the fast food worker and
the person on the line at the factory ARE BOTH doing repetitive tasks....)

Hold on a sec....

"union bum"?

The basic concept that Dwight is talking about is a "living wage" -
meaning jobs that pay enough in wages and benefits to permit people to
live above the poverty line *without* government help. Yes, paying a
living wage makes products and services cost more, but it also removes
people from the govt. support system.

Some say "the marketplace" should set wages. But "the marketplace" is
tilted by a bunch of factors, such as the exportation of jobs and the
importation of workers.

The "living wage" concept and reality are largely a result of
organized labor unions leveling the playing field a bit by unifying
the many workers in negotiating with the relatively few employees. The
really smart employers learned to treat their workers well enough that
they wouldn't unionize.

Look at what working conditions were like in various industries
100-150 years ago, before organized labor had any real power.

Believe it or not, there are alot more people out there trying to survive on
the poverty level wages. Based strictly on my local region, that would be
any job under 9-10 dollars per hour before taxes and if any, benefits. And
unfortunately some of these people are NOT counted, in the unemployment or
other job related statistics, if they are not participating in the various
government programs like the employment security commision that Michigan
has... (think its called MichiganWorks)

Yep. $20,000/yr isn't much at all anymore in many parts of the
country. Not to raise a family, anyway.

As for the $15 burrito and coke at Taco Bell, think about this:

At least here in EPA, we have a decent selection of independent diners
as an alternative to the fast food chains. The food in them is not
much more expensive than the chains, and usually better for you. The
workers in those places make at least as much as the fast food chains.
One reason for their survival is that they don't spend bazillions on
advertising. Another is local loyalty of customers.

So what's the answer, Dwight - Ryan - Kim?

73 de Jim, N2EY