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Only if you are pre 1960 and still consider 11 meters as a ham band.
Radioman wrote in message ... I'm talking about HAMS that really use a radio to transmit a signal. Doesnt matter what band. How many transmit a signal at least once a week? Most don't. If that HAM is active on CB, does that count? It's a radio signal. |
Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST.
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... "JEP" wrote in message om... Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc. I just want to read their magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have a short time left as the active Ham population lessens. Well then you can't expect the magazine to be sold at outlets when you only buy it once in a while. They've got to recoup the costs of printing and distributing and the "once in a while" buyer just doesn't provide that. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Check the figures yourself then check how many are really active. Yes
you can but NRA and AARP rags on the stand. AAA no. I quoted no data, I made an observation. Get you head out the sand and look around. See all of your old buddies just hanging around the club meeting doing nothing? is field day as well attended as it was in the 60's? Are new folks welcomed? Is help provided? If so then consider yourself lucky. "Bill Sohl" wrote in message hlink.net... "JEP" wrote in message om... Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc. Can you "just buy" the magazines of AARP, NRA, AAA, etc. without joining? I am always amazed at people that want the "benefits" of an organization's efforts, in this case the publication, but don't want to support the organization by joining. I see the same thing at times in the antique car hobby. People that bitch about the club rules at a car show, or otherwise want technical help from club officials but won't part with the few bucks it takes to join. I just want to read their magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have a short time left as the active Ham population lessens. Is it lessening? News to me. If they took a real survey as to how many real active ham there are they would find the number far less than they think. I'm not talking about members, I'm talking about HAMS that really use a radio to transmit a signal. Doesnt matter what band. How many transmit a signal at least once a week? Most don't. Please provide your survey data. Look at your local HAM clubs, talk to the members(if you can wake them up). Most show up and act disgusted with the club, Ham radio, life in general. New folks are never there. Ya I know about your Skywarn in Flint, MI. Great service! Could be run on CB, NEXTEL, GMRS. Could be but isn't...there in lies the difference. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
JEP wrote:
Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST. That'll show 'em... Dave K8MN |
JEP wrote:
Check the figures yourself then check how many are really active. Yes you can but NRA and AARP rags on the stand. AAA no. I quoted no data, I made an observation. Get you head out the sand and look around. See all of your old buddies just hanging around the club meeting doing nothing? Yep, that's the same thing they were doing twenty or thirty years ago. They show up though. is field day as well attended as it was in the 60's? Yep. Are new folks welcomed? Yep. Is help provided? Yep. If so then consider yourself lucky. I don't know about lucky. Fortunate, maybe, that my experience over forty years in amateur radio hasn't been the unpleasant one you've obviously been forced to endure. Dave K8MN |
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"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... JEP wrote: Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST. That'll show 'em... Dave K8MN I bet it will Dave....maybe they should cut off their noses also, eh? Dan/W4NTI |
Good points....now allow me to add some from the other side.
No, lets make it just one. Know many new guys that DONT KNOW IT ALL? Dan/W4NTI "JEP" wrote in message om... Check the figures yourself then check how many are really active. Yes you can but NRA and AARP rags on the stand. AAA no. I quoted no data, I made an observation. Get you head out the sand and look around. See all of your old buddies just hanging around the club meeting doing nothing? is field day as well attended as it was in the 60's? Are new folks welcomed? Is help provided? If so then consider yourself lucky. "Bill Sohl" wrote in message hlink.net... "JEP" wrote in message om... Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc. Can you "just buy" the magazines of AARP, NRA, AAA, etc. without joining? I am always amazed at people that want the "benefits" of an organization's efforts, in this case the publication, but don't want to support the organization by joining. I see the same thing at times in the antique car hobby. People that bitch about the club rules at a car show, or otherwise want technical help from club officials but won't part with the few bucks it takes to join. I just want to read their magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have a short time left as the active Ham population lessens. Is it lessening? News to me. If they took a real survey as to how many real active ham there are they would find the number far less than they think. I'm not talking about members, I'm talking about HAMS that really use a radio to transmit a signal. Doesnt matter what band. How many transmit a signal at least once a week? Most don't. Please provide your survey data. Look at your local HAM clubs, talk to the members(if you can wake them up). Most show up and act disgusted with the club, Ham radio, life in general. New folks are never there. Ya I know about your Skywarn in Flint, MI. Great service! Could be run on CB, NEXTEL, GMRS. Could be but isn't...there in lies the difference. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"Hans K0HB" wrote in message om... (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote As for "free upgrades", the FCC already unleased THAT genie with thier last round of "restructuring" with no help at all from the ARRL. And what "free upgrade" did you see in the last round or restructuring? The only thing that remotely resembles "free", was giving Pre-87 Technicians credit for the General written exam which they took. Since the exam was EXACTLY the same as Generals took, I don't see any freebie there. But just wait till ARRL BoD meets next month...... I expect to see them recommend a three-tier license regime, with a new low-powered 50W beginners "C" license, a new mid-range "B" license with 3-400W power limit, and a new top of the line "A" class license with 1.5KW power limit and a CW test in the 15-25WPM range. Frequency ghettos for "C" and "B" similar to now. Current Novice/Tech get free upgrade to "B" privs, current General/Advanced get free upgrade to "A". Yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn! I'm sure I'll miss some of the details in their proposal, but the above is pretty much the way I read the tea-leaves. 73, de Hans, K0HB Dang Hans....imagine....a three tier license structure....what a wonderful thought....too simple, to obvious, and necessary. So it won't happen. Dan/W4NTI |
In article .net, "Bill Sohl"
writes: Personally I think good true conservative idea is to allow people on the air with no licencing requirements whatsoever, then cull out the ones that violate the rules. Wrong. A true conservative desires the least practical government intervention in life. A true liberal desires the least practical government intervention in life as well. The devil is in the details of what "least practical government intervention" really means. Just one example: The government used tax dollars to rescue Chrysler about 20 years ago. It turned out to be a good gamble because Chrysler paid back all of the money with interest, and in the end it cost the taxpayers nothing. Now - was the bailout a "liberal" move to save workers' jobs and try to manage the economy? Some "conservatives" would say that companies that get in trouble should be allowed to fail in a 'free market' and not propped up with tax dollars. OTOH, was the bailout a "conservative" move to save investors' money? Or to give some help to an industry bedeviled with safety, pollution and economy regulations *and* the double whammy of foreign competiton and two oil crises? Some "liberals" would say that Big Business should not be propped up with tax dollars. (Ma's Diner wouldn't get such a bailout) Clearly a "free-for-all" no license approach to ham radio wouldn't cut it and, as such, I and other conservative minded individuals do support ham licensing. Most "conservatives", anyway. The exact same is said by most "liberals". Where we depart from the current approach is in the recognition that the "incentives" of today's licensing do NOT dovetail with the knowledge needed to pass the higher level license exams. Not perfectly, anyway. 73 es HNY de Jim, N2EY |
"JEP" wrote in message om... Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST. "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... "JEP" wrote in message om... Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc. I just want to read their magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have a short time left as the active Ham population lessens. Well then you can't expect the magazine to be sold at outlets when you only buy it once in a while. They've got to recoup the costs of printing and distributing and the "once in a while" buyer just doesn't provide that. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Gee ... I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me membership solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit) The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL is a biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of marital harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going on, I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...) The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with roadside assistance. Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess. However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio, and their member services and publications are also valuable. All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of my policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.) However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span from now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat. I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the current dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the good things that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more right than wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I disagree with. -- Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c Grid Square FN20fm http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c ------------------------------------------------------ NCI-1052 Executive Director, No Code International Fellow, The Radio Club of America Senior Member, IEEE Member, IEEE Standards Association Chair, IEEE 802.18 Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Regulatory Committee Co-Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Legislative Committee Member, QCWA (31424) Life Member, ARRL Member, TAPR ------------------------------------------------------ Join No Code International! Hams for the 21st Century. Help assure the survival and prosperity of ham radio. http://www.nocode.org I can't understand how |
On 31 Dec 2003 23:56:47 GMT, N2EY wrote:
Just one example: The government used tax dollars to rescue Chrysler about 20 years ago. It turned out to be a good gamble because Chrysler paid back all of the money with interest, and in the end it cost the taxpayers nothing. WHAT? Must be a different "government" and "Chrysler" than the one that I remember, where all the government did was to be the "final" guarantor of loans that Chrysler was seeking from the private sector banks, enabling Chrysler to get a much lower interest rate than they could get without such "bailout". No government money was expended, nor would any have been expended unless Chrysler defaulted on said loans, which of course they did not do. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane |
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JEP wrote:
Look at your local HAM clubs, talk to the members(if you can wake them up). Most show up and act disgusted with the club, Ham radio, life in general. New folks are never there. From reading your posts, I think you would fit right in with a club like that, JEP. - Mike KB3EIA - |
JEP wrote:
Check the figures yourself then check how many are really active. Yes you can but NRA and AARP rags on the stand. AAA no. I quoted no data, I made an observation. Get you head out the sand and look around. See all of your old buddies just hanging around the club meeting doing nothing? Nope. is field day as well attended as it was in the 60's? Better. I just posted some pix on our website, from FD in 1968. My guess is we have about three times the number as we did then. Are new folks welcomed? Yup. During the day, I do no operating at all, just control op the GOTA station and talk to new people when any show up. And we have new people show up. Is help provided? Of course If so then consider yourself lucky. Yeah, lucky enough. If you want, you can bitch about the ARS. Or you could do something about it. Or are you one of those hams you bitch about in a previous message? - Mike KB3EIA - |
Dave Heil wrote:
I don't know about lucky. Fortunate, maybe, that my experience over forty years in amateur radio hasn't been the unpleasant one you've obviously been forced to endure. Do you think this guy would by any chance be Vipul, Dave? Has that same sort of pro-ham attitude, eh? - Mike KB3EIA - |
Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
"JEP" wrote in message om... Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST. "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... "JEP" wrote in message e.com... Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc. I just want to read their magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have a short time left as the active Ham population lessens. Well then you can't expect the magazine to be sold at outlets when you only buy it once in a while. They've got to recoup the costs of printing and distributing and the "once in a while" buyer just doesn't provide that. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Gee ... I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me membership solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit) The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL is a biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of marital harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going on, I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...) The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with roadside assistance. Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess. However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio, and their member services and publications are also valuable. All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of my policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.) However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span from now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat. I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the current dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the good things that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more right than wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I disagree with. Just like you should! I'm amazed by the number of hams that seem to thing that the ARRL has to agree with all their personal opinions. I wonder how many of those type are married! 8^) I wonder how many of the priveliges we enjoy - and many take for granted - in the ARS, would be around if not for the ARRL. - Mike KB3EIA - |
I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me membership solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit) The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL is a biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of marital harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going on, I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...) The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with roadside assistance. Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess. However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio, and their member services and publications are also valuable. All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of my policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.) However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span from now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat. I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the current dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the good things that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more right than wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I disagree with. -- Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c Grid Square FN20fm http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c ------------------------------------------------------ NCI-1052 Executive Director, No Code International Fellow, The Radio Club of America Senior Member, IEEE Member, IEEE Standards Association Chair, IEEE 802.18 Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Regulatory Committee Co-Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Legislative Committee Member, QCWA (31424) Life Member, ARRL Member, TAPR ------------------------------------------------------ Join No Code International! Hams for the 21st Century. Help assure the survival and prosperity of ham radio. http://www.nocode.org I can't understand how Your SIG says it all. An EXTRA in NO CODE INTERNATIONAL? I see you are a joiner. The more you belong to the better it is. Help insure the survival and prosperity of ham radio? I think not. Insure the life of the ARRL and manufacturers? YES! No code is killing ham radio. See you on channel 22 good buddy. |
"JEP" wrote in message om... "JEP" snipped the headers - I said the stuff below that's prefaced with " " I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me membership solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit) The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL is a biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of marital harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going on, I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...) The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with roadside assistance. Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess. However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio, and their member services and publications are also valuable. All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of my policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.) However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span from now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat. I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the current dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the good things that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more right than wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I disagree with. -- Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c Grid Square FN20fm http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c ------------------------------------------------------ NCI-1052 Executive Director, No Code International Fellow, The Radio Club of America Senior Member, IEEE Member, IEEE Standards Association Chair, IEEE 802.18 Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Regulatory Committee Co-Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Legislative Committee Member, QCWA (31424) Life Member, ARRL Member, TAPR ------------------------------------------------------ Join No Code International! Hams for the 21st Century. Help assure the survival and prosperity of ham radio. http://www.nocode.org Your SIG says it all. An EXTRA in NO CODE INTERNATIONAL? Most of the NCI Directors are extras, of their national equivalent thereof. One has DXCC CW only. What's your point? I see you are a joiner. The more you belong to the better it is. I am ACTIVE in the things I've listed, except for TAPR. I am into digital communications but have not been active in TAPR projects for a number of reasons. However, I am VERY active in all of the others. (I didn't list my local club/RACES/ARES ...) So, it's not a "the more you belong to the better it is" thing. What's your point? Help insure the survival and prosperity of ham radio? I think not. Insure the life of the ARRL and manufacturers? YES! No code is killing ham radio. Were it not for the no-code tech license since 1990, I'd bet we'd have about 1/2 the number of licensed hams in the US that we have now. (and commercial interests would be better positioned to take some of our prime spectrum for lack of use) So, how is no code "killing ham radio" ??? See you on channel 22 good buddy. Sorry, you'll have to find someone else to talk to on your favorite frequency. I don't have any equipment that will transmit there. (But I do have 3 rigs that cover all of the amateur bands (except the 5 channels at 5 MHz) from 160m-70cm, all modes, and can be run without AC mains power - main station rig, mobile (I'm in the process of installing that rig in a new vehicle), and a QRP station I use for backpack/travel use.) How many (ham band) rigs do you have? Can you run for extended periods (weeks or more, if need be) without commercial power? How active and well-prepared are you? Oh, you're just trolling? That's become abundantly clear ... why not try another stream? I think the bites are about to dry up here. Carl - wk3c |
I need to find a can of 'Thread Be Gone'...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote: "JEP" wrote in message om... "JEP" snipped the headers - I said the stuff below that's prefaced with " " I've declined the AARP (for now at least - they started sending me membership solicitations on my 50th birthday - maybe some day I'll see a benefit) The NRA would be of interest if I was still a hunter, but alas, the XYL is a biologist and state-licensed wildlife rehabilitator, so for the sake of marital harmony, I've given up that hobby. (I have so many other things going on, I don't know when I'd have the time for it anyway ...) The AAA has never appealed to me ... I get good towing coverage for much less through my car insurance and my new Ford Explorer also comes with roadside assistance. Skinheads ... well 'nuff said, I guess. However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio, and their member services and publications are also valuable. All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of my policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.) However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span from now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat. I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the current dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the good things that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more right than wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I disagree with. -- Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c Grid Square FN20fm http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c ------------------------------------------------------ NCI-1052 Executive Director, No Code International Fellow, The Radio Club of America Senior Member, IEEE Member, IEEE Standards Association Chair, IEEE 802.18 Radio Regulatory Technical Advisory Group Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Regulatory Committee Co-Chair, Wi-Fi Alliance Legislative Committee Member, QCWA (31424) Life Member, ARRL Member, TAPR ------------------------------------------------------ Join No Code International! Hams for the 21st Century. Help assure the survival and prosperity of ham radio. http://www.nocode.org Your SIG says it all. An EXTRA in NO CODE INTERNATIONAL? Most of the NCI Directors are extras, of their national equivalent thereof. One has DXCC CW only. What's your point? I see you are a joiner. The more you belong to the better it is. I am ACTIVE in the things I've listed, except for TAPR. I am into digital communications but have not been active in TAPR projects for a number of reasons. However, I am VERY active in all of the others. (I didn't list my local club/RACES/ARES ...) So, it's not a "the more you belong to the better it is" thing. What's your point? Help insure the survival and prosperity of ham radio? I think not. Insure the life of the ARRL and manufacturers? YES! No code is killing ham radio. Were it not for the no-code tech license since 1990, I'd bet we'd have about 1/2 the number of licensed hams in the US that we have now. (and commercial interests would be better positioned to take some of our prime spectrum for lack of use) So, how is no code "killing ham radio" ??? See you on channel 22 good buddy. Sorry, you'll have to find someone else to talk to on your favorite frequency. I don't have any equipment that will transmit there. (But I do have 3 rigs that cover all of the amateur bands (except the 5 channels at 5 MHz) from 160m-70cm, all modes, and can be run without AC mains power - main station rig, mobile (I'm in the process of installing that rig in a new vehicle), and a QRP station I use for backpack/travel use.) How many (ham band) rigs do you have? Can you run for extended periods (weeks or more, if need be) without commercial power? How active and well-prepared are you? Oh, you're just trolling? That's become abundantly clear ... why not try another stream? I think the bites are about to dry up here. Carl - wk3c |
In article , Mike Coslo
writes: I wonder how many of the priveliges we enjoy - and many take for granted - in the ARS, would be around if not for the ARRL. None of them, I'd say. Yes, ham radio was shut down during WW1 and there was a strong contingent that did not want to allow hams back on the air after the Armistice. But there were several other severe threats. Here's just a few: - in the 1920s there were at least three radio international conferences where the very existence of amateur radio hung in the balance. At that time there was a strong opinion outside of the USA and a few other countries that the airwaves whould be reserved for government and commercial use *only*. Some countries with significant amateur populations (like Great Britain) proposed restrictions that would have essentially killed amateur radio (ten watts and dummy antennas only, for example). The very concept of allowing "regular people" to simply set up their own stations and communicate was alien to the mindset of many government officials. ARRL folks like Maxim, Warner and Stewart had the unenviable job of changing their minds. (Mrs. Maxim played a very important role as translator at the Paris conferences, btw). Indeed, amateur radio did not gain international treaty recognition as a separate radio service until 1927. - The WW2 shutdown and reactivation went much more smoothly than the WW1 experience, in part because of ARRL leadership in dealing with FCC. - Interference to radio broadcasting was a serious problem before WW2, due in part to lack of BC receiver selectivity. It reached the point where hams in many areas had to observe "quiet hours" and were not allowed to transmit during much of the evening and weekend. This situation reoccurred with TV in the 1950s to the point that a "traveling TVI roadshow" was put on by ARRL Hq. W1ICP and others traversed the country with cars full of equipment to demonstrate that TV and amateur radio could coexist without interference. And now we have BPL. 73 es HNY de Jim, N2EY .. |
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message ... JEP wrote: Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST. That'll show 'em... I bet it will Dave....maybe they should cut off their noses also, eh? Dan, it seems obvious that this fellow believes that his tirade will have some effect on the ARRL. It won't, but let's not spoil his dream. Dave K8MN |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... "JEP" wrote in message om... Thats why I say good riddance to ARRL and QST. [snip] However, WRT the ARRL - as much as I've had some policy differences with them over the years, they DO do a LOT of good things for ham radio, and their member services and publications are also valuable. All together, I made the value judgment to support the ARRL by maintaining membership for the past 25+ years (I should have become a life member years ago - I'd have really saved money over the years - but I resisted because of my policy differences with the ARRL leadership in a couple of areas.) However, with BPL, CC&Rs (don't affect me, but affect a lot of hams), and the good work that the ARRL/IARU did at the WRC on 40m expansion, I finally decided to become a life member and to work my policy differences from the inside as well as from the outside. If I live an average life span from now, I'll just about break even on the $975.00 life membership. I also sent them $100.00 earmarked to support Ed Hare's work against the BPL threat. I think that ARRL membership (with QST included) is a good value at the current dues rates and find it hard to understand how anyone who's REALLY interested in ham radio and its future could justify NOT joining and supporting the good things that the ARRL does - you don't have to agree with EVERYTHING they do or every position they take (I don't ...), but on balance they do much more right than wrong, so I support them for that and joust with them on the things I disagree with. -- Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c Grid Square FN20fm http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c Exactly. Working from within is generally the most effective way to bring about real, long-term change. However too many other people just want to be back seat drivers or focus on a single policy they don't like and "throw out the baby with the bathwater" so to speak. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Mike Coslo wrote: Dave Heil wrote: I don't know about lucky. Fortunate, maybe, that my experience over forty years in amateur radio hasn't been the unpleasant one you've obviously been forced to endure. Do you think this guy would by any chance be Vipul, Dave? Has that same sort of pro-ham attitude, eh? Naw, not a chance, Mike. JEP's use of language doesn't quite have that flowery lilt to it. To emulate Vipul, he'd have to insert some terms like "only-morse" and a few whopping tales of radio amateurs' love affair with food or about how some group traveled to some spot on a DXpedition and then spent all of their time operating radios. Dave K8MN |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... JEP wrote: Check the figures yourself then check how many are really active. Yes you can but NRA and AARP rags on the stand. AAA no. I quoted no data, I made an observation. Get you head out the sand and look around. See all of your old buddies just hanging around the club meeting doing nothing? Nope. Our club members are also quite active. They actively participate in the business meetings and presentations. is field day as well attended as it was in the 60's? Better. I just posted some pix on our website, from FD in 1968. My guess is we have about three times the number as we did then. Ours is infinitely better attended than it was in the 1960s. Our club did not even exist back then. Are new folks welcomed? Yup. During the day, I do no operating at all, just control op the GOTA station and talk to new people when any show up. And we have new people show up. Is help provided? Of course Absolutely. Break time usually finds the newcomers making a beeline to the oldtimers and lively discussions about items they need help with. Several of us are on an "Elmer's phone list", all of us regular talk to new people over the air and give help, and several of us regularly teach classes with many others putting in a little help at one or more sessions of a class. If so then consider yourself lucky. Yeah, lucky enough. If you want, you can bitch about the ARS. Or you could do something about it. Or are you one of those hams you bitch about in a previous message? - Mike KB3EIA - Yup, change starts with each individual. Don't complain, do something. Be an example of what you think a ham ought to be. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... I wonder how many of the priveliges we enjoy - and many take for granted - in the ARS, would be around if not for the ARRL. - Mike KB3EIA - None as the ARS would have remained closed down after World War I. There was no intent on the government part to ever re-establish those privileges. While this is in the distant past, we don't have to look too far back to see loss of spectrum and proposals from the government for loss of spectrum. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote:
Be an example of what you think a ham ought to be. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Should a ham be like N8WWM!? http://tinyurl.com/q3xp |
In article , "Phil Kane"
writes: On 31 Dec 2003 23:56:47 GMT, N2EY wrote: Just one example: The government used tax dollars to rescue Chrysler about 20 years ago. It turned out to be a good gamble because Chrysler paid back all of the money with interest, and in the end it cost the taxpayers nothing. WHAT? Must be a different "government" and "Chrysler" than the one that I remember, where all the government did was to be the "final" guarantor of loans that Chrysler was seeking from the private sector banks, enabling Chrysler to get a much lower interest rate than they could get without such "bailout". No government money was expended, nor would any have been expended unless Chrysler defaulted on said loans, which of course they did not do. Of course you are correct, sir! My explanation was incomplete and misleading on the use of taxpayer dollars to bail out Chrysler. However, the point is still valid. The Feds got involved in saving a major US corporation. Taxpayer dollars and government resources certainly *were* spent in studying the problem and setting up the loan guarantees, even if Chrysler never got a nickel of govt. money directly. And the question remains - was that bailout a "conservative" or a "liberal" action? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"Hans K0HB" wrote in message om... (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote As for "free upgrades", the FCC already unleased THAT genie with thier last round of "restructuring" with no help at all from the ARRL. And what "free upgrade" did you see in the last round or restructuring? The only thing that remotely resembles "free", was giving Pre-87 Technicians credit for the General written exam which they took. Since the exam was EXACTLY the same as Generals took, I don't see any freebie there. But just wait till ARRL BoD meets next month...... I expect to see them recommend a three-tier license regime, with a new low-powered 50W beginners "C" license, a new mid-range "B" license with 3-400W power limit, and a new top of the line "A" class license with 1.5KW power limit and a CW test in the 15-25WPM range. Frequency ghettos for "C" and "B" similar to now. Current Novice/Tech get free upgrade to "B" privs, current General/Advanced get free upgrade to "A". Yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn! I'm sure I'll miss some of the details in their proposal, but the above is pretty much the way I read the tea-leaves. 73, de Hans, K0HB The important aspect of getting to any truly "new" licensing scheme absolutly requires either some free upgrades, loss of some privileges or a combination of both. Hans's view of the future takes into account a "least" loss approach plus free upgrades. I could easily support Hans's vision above. The one differing aspect I think would be that the "C" license would more likly have a 100W limit since 50w would exclude a great many rigs. Personally, I have no problem with free upgrades if it makes sense and is done to (1) simplify overall and (2) avoids taking significant privileges away from anyone already licensed. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article .net, "Bill Sohl" writes: Personally I think good true conservative idea is to allow people on the air with no licencing requirements whatsoever, then cull out the ones that violate the rules. Wrong. A true conservative desires the least practical government intervention in life. A true liberal desires the least practical government intervention in life as well. ROTFLMAO... Guess I have truly never met such a "true liberal." Every liberal I hear from is always looking to use more of my money to create larger and more involved government programs to do ever more for the "poor, unwashed public". The devil is in the details of what "least practical government intervention" really means. Just one example: The government used tax dollars to rescue Chrysler about 20 years ago. It turned out to be a good gamble because Chrysler paid back all of the money with interest, and in the end it cost the taxpayers nothing. Now - was the bailout a "liberal" move to save workers' jobs and try to manage the economy? Some "conservatives" would say that companies that get in trouble should be allowed to fail in a 'free market' and not propped up with tax dollars. OTOH, was the bailout a "conservative" move to save investors' money? Or to give some help to an industry bedeviled with safety, pollution and economy regulations *and* the double whammy of foreign competiton and two oil crises? Some "liberals" would say that Big Business should not be propped up with tax dollars. (Ma's Diner wouldn't get such a bailout) Clearly a "free-for-all" no license approach to ham radio wouldn't cut it and, as such, I and other conservative minded individuals do support ham licensing. Most "conservatives", anyway. The exact same is said by most "liberals". Where we depart from the current approach is in the recognition that the "incentives" of today's licensing do NOT dovetail with the knowledge needed to pass the higher level license exams. Not perfectly, anyway. Not even very imperfectly. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"Bill Sohl" wrote The important aspect of getting to any truly "new" licensing scheme absolutly requires either some free upgrades, loss of some privileges or a combination of both. Hans's view of the future takes into account a "least" loss approach plus free upgrades. I could easily support Hans's vision above. That's not my view of the future, and it FOR DAMNED SURE isn't my "vision". For a view of my vision, visit http://tinyurl.com/wce9. No losses, and no freebie upgrades, and elimination of "newcomer ghettos". So much for your "absolutly (sic) requires". 73, de Hans, K0HB |
"JEP" wrote in message om... SNIP YES! No code is killing ham radio. See you on channel 22 good buddy. And just what "facts" do you preent to back-up your claim that: "No Code is killing ham radio?" Odds are you haven't a single rational example. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"JEP" wrote in message om... Check the figures yourself then check how many are really active. And just "how" do you propose anyone can "check how many are really active?" Yes you can but NRA and AARP rags on the stand. AAA no. I quoted no data, I made an observation. Your observation was absent any clarification that it was only YOUR observation, unsubstantiated by any true facts. Get you head out the sand and look around. See all of your old buddies just hanging around the club meeting doing nothing? is field day as well attended as it was in the 60's? Are new folks welcomed? Is help provided? If so then consider yourself lucky. One aspect of almost all hobbies" is the cost to play which often results in an older cross-section of participants. The same is true for antique cars, model railroading, etc. Add to that the available "free time" which most older folks, especially retirees, have. "Bill Sohl" wrote in message hlink.net... "JEP" wrote in message om... Just my point. I don't want to belong to ARRL just as I don't care to belong to AARP, NRA, AAA, Skinheads, etc. Can you "just buy" the magazines of AARP, NRA, AAA, etc. without joining? I am always amazed at people that want the "benefits" of an organization's efforts, in this case the publication, but don't want to support the organization by joining. I see the same thing at times in the antique car hobby. People that bitch about the club rules at a car show, or otherwise want technical help from club officials but won't part with the few bucks it takes to join. I just want to read their magazine when it has something that interests me. I wouldn't buy it every month as most of the time it has useless drivel about some clowntest or whether someone died or some such crap. ARRL and QST have a short time left as the active Ham population lessens. Is it lessening? News to me. If they took a real survey as to how many real active ham there are they would find the number far less than they think. I'm not talking about members, I'm talking about HAMS that really use a radio to transmit a signal. Doesnt matter what band. How many transmit a signal at least once a week? Most don't. Please provide your survey data. Look at your local HAM clubs, talk to the members(if you can wake them up). Most show up and act disgusted with the club, Ham radio, life in general. New folks are never there. Ya I know about your Skywarn in Flint, MI. Great service! Could be run on CB, NEXTEL, GMRS. Could be but isn't...there in lies the difference. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"KØHB" wrote in message link.net... "Bill Sohl" wrote The important aspect of getting to any truly "new" licensing scheme absolutly requires either some free upgrades, loss of some privileges or a combination of both. Hans's view of the future takes into account a "least" loss approach plus free upgrades. I could easily support Hans's vision above. That's not my view of the future, and it FOR DAMNED SURE isn't my "vision". For a view of my vision, visit http://tinyurl.com/wce9. No losses, and no freebie upgrades, and elimination of "newcomer ghettos". So much for your "absolutly (sic) requires". 73, de Hans, K0HB Hans, Apologies for misunderstanding your position. As to my view that either freebies or losses are needed to get to a new license plan, I truly think that will be the case. I doubt the FCC wants to have a hybred licensing scheme in the long run. That's my perspective. Assuming "free upgrades" as was noted in your post, what's the overall harm? Cheers and Happy New Year. Bill K2UNK |
"Bill Sohl" wrote Assuming "free upgrades" as was noted in your post, what's the overall harm? You're a bright guy, Bill, so surely you can see the "overall harm", but maybe you're having some trouble shaking off the effects of your New Years Eve celebration, so I'll spell it out for you. Today, passing the Amateur Extra exam is the qualification required for full amateur privileges. An existing General or Advanced licensee has passed a less comprehensive set of examinations, and has not (by FCC definition) demonstrated qualification for full amateur privileges. If FCC suddenly upgrades all General and Advanced licenses to Amateur Extra, then ipso facto and ipso jure the qualification required for full amateur privileges has been lowered by two full steps. Given that sad state of affairs, now any NEW amateur hopefuls can reasonably plead that any examination more comprehensive than the current General discriminates against new applicants. In some circles I've heard that called "the Great Dumbing Down" of amateur radio. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
"KØHB" wrote in message link.net... "Bill Sohl" wrote Assuming "free upgrades" as was noted in your post, what's the overall harm? You're a bright guy, Bill, so surely you can see the "overall harm", but maybe you're having some trouble shaking off the effects of your New Years Eve celebration, so I'll spell it out for you. Today, passing the Amateur Extra exam is the qualification required for full amateur privileges. An existing General or Advanced licensee has passed a less comprehensive set of examinations, and has not (by FCC definition) demonstrated qualification for full amateur privileges. If FCC suddenly upgrades all General and Advanced licenses to Amateur Extra, then ipso facto and ipso jure the qualification required for full amateur privileges has been lowered by two full steps. Only on a one-time basis. The question still is, what is the harm of such a one-time "fix." Given that sad state of affairs, now any NEW amateur hopefuls can reasonably plead that any examination more comprehensive than the current General discriminates against new applicants. They can plead all they want...doesn't make it so. The FCC could certainly counter argue the upgrades were a one-time need to simplify the overall license structure. YMMV Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message link.net... "JEP" wrote in message om... SNIP YES! No code is killing ham radio. See you on channel 22 good buddy. And just what "facts" do you preent to back-up your claim that: "No Code is killing ham radio?" Odds are you haven't a single rational example. Cheers, Bill K2UNK May I, Bill? While I do not think No-Code Int'l. is "killing" ham radio, I do believe it is fostering a bad mindset. If there were truly no no-code AR license available, I'd agree that the Morse code exam is a barrier to those who neither possess the "Morse aptitude" (For lack of a better term.) nor wish to utilize it OTA. However, there's been a no-code ticket available for over a decade now...with some pretty generous RF real estate and power limitations I might add. IMHO, No-Code Int'l. has: 1. Encouraged the idea that it is preferable to lower the requirements through mass petition rather than encourage individuals to strive toward higher achievement. Some refer to it as "lowering the bar." 2. Made the notion of more privileges via higher achievement appear as if it's fundamentally wrong. If one wishes to upgrade, then meet the requirements necessary to achieve that upgrade. (Not just the requirements we *want* to meet.) I've read enough posts here and on the countless code vs. no-code articles on the various ham radio web forums (As well as the actual RM petitions and their respective comments.) to confidently say that neither side can claim an overwhelming numerical advantage over the other. So I think it's safe to say that not all ascribe to the "barrier" notion. What will happen? Well, the squeaky wheel gets the oil so I think we can be reasonably assured of the elimination of Element 1...at least for Technician "+" privies. Personally, I'm prouder to have achieved rather than squeaked. 73 es HNY de Bert WA2SI |
"Bill Sohl" wrote Only on a one-time basis. If N2EY's latest post under "ARS License Numbers" is accurate, and if the "fix" was instituted today, the number of Amateur Extra licensees would increase by 213% and the vast majority (69%) of this enlarged "Extra Class" would not qualify for the license under yesterdays rules or tomorrows rules. Given that sad state of affairs, now any NEW amateur hopefuls can reasonably plead that any examination more comprehensive than the current General discriminates against new applicants. They can plead all they want...doesn't make it so. The FCC could certainly counter argue the upgrades were a one-time need to simplify the overall license structure. Their counter argument would utterly fail, because they'd first need to prove that the "one-time need" over-rides the harm of a massive influx of underqualified (by their own rules) individuals into the top class of amateur operators. Judges rule on logic, not administrative convenience. The question still is, what is the harm of such a one-time "fix." Trivializing this as a one-time "fix" shows how little you've examined the issue. Instead of a one-time "fix", it would be a one-time "hammer blow". The answer still is exactly as stated in my previous message. Cheerios and bran flakes to you to, K0HB |
SNIP again.
Sorry, you'll have to find someone else to talk to on your favorite frequency. I don't have any equipment that will transmit there. (But I do have 3 rigs that cover all of the amateur bands (except the 5 channels at 5 MHz) from 160m-70cm, all modes, and can be run without AC mains power - main station rig, mobile (I'm in the process of installing that rig in a new vehicle), and a QRP station I use for backpack/travel use.) How many (ham band) rigs do you have? Can you run for extended periods (weeks or more, if need be) without commercial power? How active and well-prepared are you? Oh, you're just trolling? That's become abundantly clear ... why not try another stream? I think the bites are about to dry up here. Carl - wk3c The bites don't seem to drying up at all. I found a few nibbles yet. The Extras on the no code board have to 5wpm Extras. Couldn't be real Extras that had at least one exam in front of a FCC examiner. Passed at least one test at a real FCC examination site. Actually learned radio theory. The radios I own are not your concern. I will say I own enough to operate all bands and modes. Can stay active as long as some kind of power is still available.Also have had a Ham ticket long enough to know exactly what the ARRL has really done with the incentive crap from the 60's. Remember, it was Maxim not the ARRL thst got the frequencies back after WW 1. Maxim was a mover and shaker, unlike the deadheads in there now---The Good Ole Boy Club! You guys keep nibbling because you are afraid to admit you are wrong. |
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