On 15 Dec 2003 12:58:30 GMT, N2EY wrote:

OK - who/what defines what a "church" is?

"Rev Gene" (W.Eugene Scott), one of the first TV preachers in the
1970s, tried to claim that his radio and TV stations (licensed to
House of Faith, at one time a real church but by that time merely a
shell for his radio and TV operations) were his "church" and
therefore immune from FCC and California Attorney General audit and
investigation of claims of misappropriation of donated funds. The
Supreme Court of the US disagreed with him and eventually he lost
all the stations, some in outright license revocation and some in
tax sales.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

What is any of this to you? You aren't a radio amateur. You aren't a
member of the ARRL. That hasn't stopped you from huffing and puffing.

I'm just campaigning for the elimination of morse code testing.

What is that to you?

It effects me because I am an active radio amateur. You, on the other
hand, are in no way involved.

You've already passed morse code tests.

Yes, I have. That is of no concern to you.

You are the ultimate amateur.

Thanks for the accolades, Len but I'm just one U.S. radio amateur among
hundreds of thousands.

You might have been a professional once, but you could not even
get a job with an amateur organization.

Yes, I was a professional in radio for quite a number of years. I don't
use that as a pulpit from which to lecture radio amateurs. You do and
you aren't even involved.

If you've been paying attention, I was offered a job with the ARRL. I
turned it down. Are you playing loose with facts again?

No wonder you are so bitter.

I think you must have me mixed up with you. I'm a radio amateur. You
are a bystander.

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
digy.com...
"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...

It probably was no longer cost effective to sell it on newstands.

If the ARRL is making money (a no-no for a non-profit corp) then
report
them
to the IRS. If they are not making money, then no matter how big
they
are,
it is not about money since no one is making a profit.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Un-friggin-believable.

Non-profits aren't about profit. They're about salaries.

If the salaries are too high, get on the board and get them reduced.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Who said they were too high?

They have to balance their books somehow (to avoid the appearance of
profit), and the salary is the most convenient place to dump the
excess.

Sounds like one of Len's typical conspiracy/dishonesty rants aimed
toward the ARRL.

Quit trying to sound like a Ba'athist amateur, Klunk.

There certainly weren't many of them, kindly old gent. Still, YI1BGD
contacts weren't that hard to come by. Rarer still would be a QSL
confirming a contact with you on the ham bands.

The League (of Notions) MAKES MONEY on the publication side
of their conglomerate of control.

Ads in QST pay for everything in the QST staff and the cost of job
printing and fulfillment (publication talk for mailing/distributing).

The "non-profit" stuff and nonsense is for lowering their taxes.

No kidding? Thanks for clearing this up for those of us who've only
been members for three or four decades, Len. You're pretty up to date
for a non-member, non-radio amateur.

You need copies of their IRS forms from 2002 and previous years?
Those are on the Internet.

Thanks, but I have no need of them.

I interviewed for a League position years back. The
salary offered wasn't enough to cover a move and life in the greater
Hartford area.

Translation: You were rejected. (boo hoo for you)

You've mistranslated. What part of "the salary offered" wasn't clear to
you? Are you playing loose with the facts again?

While I'm sure that salaries are now better, I don't
think any League staffers are putting up gold-plated Rohn tower and 80m
yagis at their palatial estates.

Rohn filed for bankruptcy on account of that?

No, I think they waited for decades for your business and it dawned on
someone at the plant that it just wasn't going to come about.

You can see the top five staffers' salaries given on their 2002 IRS
forms.

And?

It's about your ignorance of what a non-profit really is.

*Guffaw!*. Her ignorance? I see some gaping holes in your own
database.

Nooo, Klunk, "non-profit" is a status to claim for paying LESS
taxes.

Really? Can I see a show of hands for those here who weren't aware of
that?

If you are foolish enough to believe that W1AW's station, the
"museum" and all the other paraphenalia came out of dues, you've
got a database gap large enough to sail the USS Enterprise through.

I've made no such statement. I know how a non-profit organization
operates. I know how the ARRL operates. Sadly, I know how you operate.

With all the dissatisfaction you've expressed, why not start your own
organization for like-minded hams? I'm sure you'd amass a following in
no time.

Three-fourths of all licensed U.S. radio amateurs are NOT members.

One fourth, a sizeable number, ARE members. There are also Associate
Members who are not licensees. You aren't a Full Member nor are you an
Associate Member.

That should be evidenciary. To all but the minority who are members.

So, to see if we have your latest yarn straight, ARRL members aren't
aware that there are others who are not members?

Members "KNOW what is good for all the others" and therefore they
are the elite.

Other than you, who issues such statements? What is any of this to you
as an outsider to amateur radio and the ARRL?

The League (of Notions) still holds on vainly to the idea that morse
code is still the ultimate of amateur skills...long after the rest of the
radio world has given it up, discarded it for communications.

Maybe you can point us to some place on the ARRL web site where such a
statement is made.

Continue to be the acidic spam-bot for the League (of Notions), old
Klunk. You have taken a Ba'ath...but are yet unclean.

Sounds like the bilious rantings of some geezer who is on the outside of
amateur radio, looking in.

Dave K8MN

Brian wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message t...


Won't happen, Dan. People like that have selective memory. They'll rail
about how QST doesn't have articles about what they want to see, and
conveniently forget about the important jobs ARRL does for us.

1. That only a minority of hams belong to ARRL speaks much more about
hams than it does the ARRL.


Are you saying that I'm a sucker?

Don't think so. I'm a member too.


2. I would challenge the ARRL haters to come up with scenario's of what
the ARS would be like today (if it even existed) if there was no ARRL.

- Mike KB3EIA -


World peace?

I prefer my peas boiled with butter, though I might like to try whirled
peas some time.

- Mike KB3EIA

Mike Coslo wrote:
I prefer my peas boiled with butter, though I might like to try whirled
peas some time.

- Mike KB3EIA

Finally something I can relate to in rec.radio.cb . Homegrown
peas and butter. Mmmmm!

Thanks for sharing this thread with us CBer's.

Dee D. Flint wrote:

"Brian" wrote in message
om...

Mike Coslo wrote in message

...

One of the greatest rules of parliamentary procedure, and a real
cornerstone of representative democracy in gneral is that even though
the majority rules, the minority is allowed to have it's say.

I think waaaaaayyyy too many people these days seem to have forgotten
that. The minority must have it's say.

Dee, I think you are taking a wrong tack on this one. Brian needs his
say, and should not be forced to be a person at a high level of power in
an institution to have his opinion.

Not everyone wants to be active or even *can* be active in an
organization. There are only so many leadership positions.

Mike, thanks for your comments. Its refreshing to hear that I don't
have to carry the weight of the ARS on my back, and that my personal
involvement in the national club, though significant, is not an
absolute requirement to achieve change. I really don't think the
"minority" that I belong to is much smaller than the other minority
that claims to speak for all amateur radio.

Notice the FCC comments during the NPRM with respect to the code.
Notice the current debate about the number of license classes
necessary to keep the ARS vibrant and healthy.

There is no need for me to be a subversive within that other minority
group for which I have supported and paid annual dues since 1986.
There is no need for a hostile takeover. Hainey is not my president.
The FCC has solicited my comments, and I gave them.

I think Dee's demands are extreme.


You are expecting changes out of all proportion to the effort that you are
putting into it and you think my opinions are extreme??

I'm not so sure he is, Dee. I see a person that disagrees with some of
what the ARRL is doing, yet still supports the basic objective. I mean
if he's been a member since 86, that counts for something.

Kind of like how I am with politics. The Dems are in shambles, and the
Repubs are waaaaaayyyyy too liberal any more with their way out of line
deficit spending.

But I still vote, and try to pick the least awful candidate.

I eat my peas with honey,
I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps them on my knife.

-SSB

Mike Coslo wrote:
Brian wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in message
t...


Won't happen, Dan. People like that have selective memory.
They'll rail about how QST doesn't have articles about what they want
to see, and conveniently forget about the important jobs ARRL does
for us.

1. That only a minority of hams belong to ARRL speaks much more
about hams than it does the ARRL.



Are you saying that I'm a sucker?


Don't think so. I'm a member too.



2. I would challenge the ARRL haters to come up with scenario's
of what the ARS would be like today (if it even existed) if there was
no ARRL.

- Mike KB3EIA -



World peace?


I prefer my peas boiled with butter, though I might like to try whirled
peas some time.

- Mike KB3EIA