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In article , Leo
writes: On 10 Feb 2004 09:52:50 -0800, (N2EY) wrote: snip Without the ARRL, do you think we'd still have amateur radio? I don't. Um, the rest of the planet does not have the ARRL, and amateur radio is still going strong there..... Irrelevant to this group, Leo. ARRL "represents all amateurs." They say so up front. W1AW reaches the edges of the known world...a couple provinces of Canada, as far west as Ohio, down to Atlanta, Georgia. Their concept of "world." Every single radio amateur in the USA "owes everything" to Saint Hiram Percy Maxim who "went to Washington" in 1919 to "restore ham radio" after WW One. ARRL tells everyone that, forever and ever. Happened 85 years ago when all the seven-year-old amateur extras in here were young. Clap clap. LHA / WMD |
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:32:40 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote: "Leo" wrote in message .. . On 10 Feb 2004 09:52:50 -0800, (N2EY) wrote: snip Without the ARRL, do you think we'd still have amateur radio? I don't. Um, the rest of the planet does not have the ARRL, and amateur radio is still going strong there..... snip 73 de Jim, N2EY 73, Leo Without the ARRL, US amateur radio would have remained permanently closed after World War I. The other countries did not have enough amateurs to justify keeping the frequencies and it is highly probably that they would have all gone to commercial interests. Everyone wanted the shortwave frequencies at that time and without the US, the foreign amateurs would not have had enough leverage to have held on to the spectrum. Dee, Perhaps, but I'm not comfortable that it is fact. In 1917 (or 1916, depending on the source), there were some 6,000 amateurs operating in the US - not sure how many there were when amateur radio was turned back on in 1919, but it was probably less than that, due to losses in the war. Even at 6,000, though, would that constitute a sufficient number of amateurs to influence policy on a global scale? Keeping in mind that the US, as a member of the ITU, has voting privileges but not an overwhelming influence. Foreign stations still boom over here today on part of our 40 meter band - because the ITU agreements say they can. The Americas can request, and debate, and vote upon, but not control ITU policy. I doubt very much that they could back then, either. According to The Wayback Machine, it wasn't commercial interests that wanted control of these bands post-WWI (all radio bands, actually!) in the US - it was the US Military. The ARRL did a fine job of lobbying the US government to have the frequencies reopened to US amateurs - but I don't think that the rest of the world would have walked away from amateur radio forever if the ARRL had been unsuccessful. And, in the absence of the ARRL, other alliances may have been formed to lobby for this right - just like they did in the rest of the world. In fact, your happy ham neighbours to the North were legally transmitting again as of May 1, 1919 - a full 5 months before the US amateurs were allowed back on the air on October 1st of that year. As I recall from history class, the US military hasn't attemped to enforce US policy up here since 1814 - and never successfully prior to that :o0 Source: http://www.ve4.net/history/part1.txt Does anyone have any further documentation pertaining to this subject? I know that the Netherlands didn't regain operating privileges until the early 1920s - Alun, old son, what was the history of this over the pond? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE 73, Leo |
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:15:37 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote: Doggone it Dee! Your factual post is going to ruin another anti-US rant! No rant intended, Mike. Just looking for facts! You wouldn't happen to have any on you, would you? :) 8^) FWIW, I'm really disapointed in thoes two. 8^( - Mike KB3EIA - 73, Leo |
In article , Mike Coslo
writes: Without the ARRL, US amateur radio would have remained permanently closed after World War I. The other countries did not have enough amateurs to justify keeping the frequencies and it is highly probably that they would have all gone to commercial interests. Everyone wanted the shortwave frequencies at that time and without the US, the foreign amateurs would not have had enough leverage to have held on to the spectrum. Doggone it Dee! Your factual post is going to ruin another anti-US rant! One ritta mistake: It isn't factual. LHA / WMD |
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes: As I indicated in another post, early on in amateur radio, it would have been easy for the ITU to have allocated all the frequencies to commericial and government interests. The size of the US amateur community was, in those early days, very probably a key element in keeping an allocation for amateurs. There was NO "ITU" before WW2. There was the CCITT. The size of the US amateur community was, in those early days, miniscule compared to the broadcasters getting started. Ham radio's oinks weren't near "numerous" until AFTER WW2. But, to hear the spin from the league, they and Stl Hiram practically invented ham radio and saved it from perdition. Selective editing of the REAL history of all radio doesn't make it "truth." Except to the devout Believers... LHA / WMD |
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes: Without the ARRL, US amateur radio would have remained permanently closed after World War I. The other countries did not have enough amateurs to justify keeping the frequencies and it is highly probably that they would have all gone to commercial interests. Everyone wanted the shortwave frequencies at that time and without the US, the foreign amateurs would not have had enough leverage to have held on to the spectrum. You were THERE then? :-) Nooooo Mama Dee, U.S. radio amateurs got tossed off of MF because they were interfering with broadcasters. That's the REAL radio history. You need to get an Internet visa and visit some of the Yurp ham websites to learn their side of things. Those places don't have the league SPIN operating to selectively edit out things the league doesn't want you to hear. Commercial radio did NOT "want all the shortwave frequencies" in 1919, but rather the opposite. Once the commercial radio services found out about HF "skip" propagaation, they studied it, grabbed it up some years later through the CCITT, and ran with it for carrier service in communications. They did right well with it until about 1960, too. LHA / WMD |
In article , Leo
writes: Ah well, Leo, they still think that the United states is the centre of the universe (or even the center of the universe, HI!). We used to think the same thing about the British Empire, and we were wrong too! Good point - in the grand scheme of things, it's the ITU who is likely to blame for the continuation of amateur radio on a global scale - the ARRL is but one fish in the big sea (well, a whale maybe, but it's a big sea!) Whales are all wet. "Save the whales, collect the entire set!" :-) BTW - it looks like you might be back in the British Empire sooner than you think - I saw somebody trying to show you the door a while ago in another post hi!) No problem, as your usher noted, there's some great SSB DX on 7.050 thru 7.100 - might be worth it! The last time there was any significant increase in HF ham bands was 1979, 25 years ago. As far back as 8 years ago, the NTIA's survey of future spectrum requirements for amateur service indicated that over 1 MHz of ham band space would be needed...as indicated by a footnote saying that an ARRL person said that. ARRL has lobbied only for the "60 meter" band in HF and got all of five CHANNELS. U.S. league membership dollars at work... :-) Yurp has a LF band. USA doesn't. Over here there's only the 160 to 190 KHz FREE band (no license required) on LF, sure as heck no real power required either). I love all the "effort" expended by the ARRL to get more HF band- space within borders. LHA / WMD |
In article , Leo
writes: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:32:40 GMT, "Dee D. Flint" wrote: "Leo" wrote in message . .. On 10 Feb 2004 09:52:50 -0800, (N2EY) wrote: snip Without the ARRL, do you think we'd still have amateur radio? I don't. Um, the rest of the planet does not have the ARRL, and amateur radio is still going strong there..... snip 73 de Jim, N2EY 73, Leo Without the ARRL, US amateur radio would have remained permanently closed after World War I. The other countries did not have enough amateurs to justify keeping the frequencies and it is highly probably that they would have all gone to commercial interests. Everyone wanted the shortwave frequencies at that time and without the US, the foreign amateurs would not have had enough leverage to have held on to the spectrum. Dee, Perhaps, but I'm not comfortable that it is fact. In 1917 (or 1916, depending on the source), there were some 6,000 amateurs operating in the US - not sure how many there were when amateur radio was turned back on in 1919, but it was probably less than that, due to losses in the war. About 4,000, from various accounts. Now, how many amateurs were there in the rest of the world back then? Even at 6,000, though, would that constitute a sufficient number of amateurs to influence policy on a global scale? Yes. Keeping in mind that the US, as a member of the ITU, has voting privileges but not an overwhelming influence. Was there even an ITU back then? Foreign stations still boom over here today on part of our 40 meter band - because the ITU agreements say they can. That's because of a compromise worked out in 1938. The Americas can request, and debate, and vote upon, but not control ITU policy. I doubt very much that they could back then, either. The point is that the cause of truly "amateur" radio was largely the work of Americans. In fact, amateur radio was not recognized as a separate radio service by international treaty until 1927. That recognition was due in large part to the work of Maxim, Stewart, Warner and others at the various conferences, including Paris in 1924 and 1925. According to The Wayback Machine, it wasn't commercial interests that wanted control of these bands post-WWI (all radio bands, actually!) in the US - it was the US Military. Yep, most notably the Navy. he ARRL did a fine job of lobbying the US government to have the frequencies reopened to US amateurs - but I don't think that the rest of the world would have walked away from amateur radio forever if the ARRL had been unsuccessful. I think they would have. Most of the rest of the world had very few if any amateurs. Many countries could not understand why anyone would want to pursue radio as an end in itself. Many also wanted total government control of radio. Very few outside the US thought amateurs needed more than a few small bands and more than a few watts. And, in the absence of the ARRL, other alliances may have been formed to lobby for this right - just like they did in the rest of the world. Unlikely without the help of the IARU. In fact, your happy ham neighbours to the North were legally transmitting again as of May 1, 1919 - a full 5 months before the US amateurs were allowed back on the air on October 1st of that year. And there were how many of them? As I recall from history class, the US military hasn't attemped to enforce US policy up here since 1814 - and never successfully prior to that :o0 Source: http://www.ve4.net/history/part1.txt Does anyone have any further documentation pertaining to this subject? I know that the Netherlands didn't regain operating privileges until the early 1920s - Alun, old son, what was the history of this over the pond? Start with "200 Meters And Down" 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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