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New ARRL Proposal
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1
Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message
m... http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra Ok, so far so good. 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only I personally would like to see existing Tech, Tech+, and Novice licensees upgraded to the new Novice ticket. (Tech+ privies.) Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra Sounds reasonable. , Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Nope. 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Depends on one's interpretation of "slightly," I suppose. Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Ok. Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Also reasonable. Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics" Surely, they jest?! , General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. Ok. 73 de Jim, N2EY Thanks for the synopsis, Jim. This scenario certainly beats a blank. 73 de Bert WA2SI |
"Tom Winston" wrote in
: On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote: Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ... That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Advanced class licensees passed the Extra class written exam, and passed a 13 wpm code test. Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam -- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam. Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met higher standards than the current crop of Extras. So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make that decision. Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license. Truly weird. As a 20wpm Extra I don't see you as having a higher licence than me, oddly enough. |
"Tom Winston" wrote in message ...
On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote: Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ... That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Incorrect! Advanced class licensees passed the Extra class written exam, No, they did not. There have always been different written exams for the two license classes. Until the 2000 restructuring, an Extra required passing both the 50 question Advanced written *and* the 40 question Extra. and passed a 13 wpm code test. Only until 1990. After that time, code waivers were available. Extra required 20 wpm in the same time frame. Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam again, incorrect! -- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam. No argument there. Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met higher standards than the current crop of Extras. So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make that decision. Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"Bert Craig" wrote in message . net...
"N2EY" wrote in message m... http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra Ok, so far so good. I'm against free upgrades. 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only I personally would like to see existing Tech, Tech+, and Novice licensees upgraded to the new Novice ticket. (Tech+ privies.) It's not that simple. The proposed Novice would have a lot more HF modes and spectrum than current Novice/Tech+ - but a lot *less* VHF/UHF. Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra Sounds reasonable. I disagree. All it takes to go from Advanced to Extra is a single written test. Been that way for almost 4 years. , Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Nope. Same as above. 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Depends on one's interpretation of "slightly," I suppose. 25 kHz or so. Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Ok. Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Also reasonable. Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics" Surely, they jest?! Not at all. The old Novice was only 20-25 questions, back in the bad old days (before about 1972). Of course all the old Novice allowed was 80, 40 and 15 CW, plus 145-147 MHz meter CW and AM. And the AM was eliminated about 1967. 75 watts max input, xtal control only. , General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. Ok. 73 de Jim, N2EY Thanks for the synopsis, Jim. This scenario certainly beats a blank. Read the entire proposal on the website. Some good ideas, some not so hot ones. Better than the "21st Century" paper proposes, anyway. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Bert Craig wrote:
Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra Sounds reasonable. Oh great, I get to be an Extra by default. I had rather keep my Advanced, advanced even sounds more advanced than Extra does. |
In article ,
(N2EY) "summarized" what is publicly referencible and pretends to write "news:" http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra Only the name of "Technician" changed to "Novice" in order to preserve the lesser class (in the BoD's mind). Otherwise the present regulations have only THREE classes of new licensees NOW. 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only One small step for the BoD, not a giant leap for newbies. Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General ARRL needs membership revenue...they have to pander to just about all of the lesser classes! :-) 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Grudging acceptance of present-day practices. :-) Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. Okay, so the BoD is slowly, painstakingly "advancing" to the present day. They ought to be about in the 1970s by now. Hiram forbid that anyone EVER remove the code test requirement! Such a thing is unheard of! Sacrilege to old T.O.M.! Now is the time for all the League syncophants to chant and do their mantra for the "forward-looking League doing its best for what is best for U.S. amateur radio." They can do no wrong. Gotta love it! LHA / WMD |
"N2EY" wrote in message m... http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra Pretty similar to Hans's proposal on classes. 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only And so many folks thought they'd push for a higher speed test. Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Sounds like something I suggested a couple of weeks ago that scared a few folks. 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. Should be interesting as to how this goes down. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
"Tom Winston" wrote in message ...
On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote: Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ... That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Advanced class licensees passed the Extra class written exam, and passed a 13 wpm code test. Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam -- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam. Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met higher standards than the current crop of Extras. So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make that decision. Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license. There's that stupid pecking order thing again. Hey, a little studying and a code waiver and anyone could have been an Advanced. |
Cutting edge stuph, I'm sure. Let's see what they got.
(N2EY) wrote in message om... http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. 73 de Jim, N2EY Pretty much just a consolidation of existing license classes. But a move in the right direction. |
"Bert Craig" wrote in message . net...
"N2EY" wrote in message m... http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra Ok, so far so good. 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only I personally would like to see existing Tech, Tech+, and Novice licensees upgraded to the new Novice ticket. (Tech+ privies.) Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra Sounds reasonable. , Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Nope. 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Depends on one's interpretation of "slightly," I suppose. Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Ok. Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Also reasonable. Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics" Surely, they jest?! , General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. Ok. 73 de Jim, N2EY Thanks for the synopsis, Jim. This scenario certainly beats a blank. 73 de Bert WA2SI A blank like last time? Bert, WHY OH WHY couldn't the ARRL have come up with this a decade ago??? The FCC was not only receptive, but even a little pushy about restructuring back then. Instead the ARRL chose to sit on their collective thumbs. |
In article , Alun
writes: (N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376 : http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it would reintroduce a free licence class. Not part of the proposal as I read it. The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF privileges, but more HF privileges. Provided the new class that happened to be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that Why? Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above and below 30 MHz privileges. 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and receiving. Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be dumped. It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to use manufactured equipment. Moreover, it can be now, since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months. FCC will most probably just drop it completely. Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, OK Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months? Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to General? What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not the other? 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Good. Bad. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not? That space is needed for CW and digital modes. Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 See above Please clarify. Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation OK Agreed. Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", Not OK Why not? Current Element 2 is only 35 questions! And it has a lot more ground to cover, including all amateur VHF/UHF bands and modes, power up to "meat cooking" levels (love that WK3C phrase) and much more. By reducing the entry-level privs, 25 questions should be enough. General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't say here. See above. A few good ideas and a few bad ideas. Obviously the work of a committee looking to give everyone something they want, but not giving anyone everything they want. What will FCC do? First off, they may just go for the "new Novice", in an effort to attract more new hams. Second, they will probably just dump Element 1. Third, they will probably not hand out free upgrades because it costs them little or nothing to keep the closed-off classes. And that's probably about it. 73 de Jim, N2EY 73 de Jim, N2EY |
In article ,
(N2EY) writes: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. 73 de Jim, N2EY Jim: This new ARRL Proposal is pretty much what I would expect to come out of Newington these days. And that doesn't mean that I won't support it. However, I don't see the FCC as being favorably disposed toward adding a new license class to the ARS licensing structure. A better idea would have been to simply incorporate the "New Novice" HF phone privileges with the current Technician-class license, keeping General and Extra as they are in the new proposal. I don't see why the Extra-class code test requirement needs to be set at the current 5 WPM level. A 12-wpm code test would be a better idea, and anyone interested enough in achieving Extra could go from nothing to that level in a matter of weeks. However, since Extra is already dumbed-down to 5 WPM, I guess there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube. 73 de Larry, K3LT |
Alun wrote in message .. .
(N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376 @posting.google.com: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it would reintroduce a free licence class. Provided the new class that happened to be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be dumped. Moreover, it can be now, since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months. Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, OK Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Good. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not? Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 See above Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation OK Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", Not OK General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. 73 de Jim, N2EY What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't say here. 73 de Alun, N3KIP Alun, when we had 7 license classes, The Amateur Formerly Known As Rev. Jim told me that the ARS needed more license classes, not fewer. |
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"Bill Sohl" wrote Pretty similar to Hans's proposal on classes. Bill, you must be on drugs, or you have a severe disability regarding comprehension of the English language. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
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In article , ospam
(Larry Roll K3LT) writes: In article , (N2EY) writes: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. 73 de Jim, N2EY Jim: This new ARRL Proposal is pretty much what I would expect to come out of Newington these days. Except it didn't come out of Newington - it's the result of the BoD's vote. And the BoD are from all over the country, elected by the members. And that doesn't mean that I won't support it. I support parts of it. However, I don't see the FCC as being favorably disposed toward adding a new license class to the ARS licensing structure. Just a name change. They'd reopen Novice to new issues and close off Tech to new issues so there would still be only three levels avaialble for new issues. A better idea would have been to simply incorporate the "New Novice" HF phone privileges with the current Technician-class license, keeping General and Extra as they are in the new proposal. Maybe they'll do just that. I don't see why the Extra-class code test requirement needs to be set at the current 5 WPM level. It's a bone throne to those who support code testing. And if you look at the comments to the various proposals submitted to FCC, those folks are in the majority. A 12-wpm code test would be a better idea, and anyone interested enough in achieving Extra could go from nothing to that level in a matter of weeks. Of course. However, since Extra is already dumbed-down to 5 WPM, I guess there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube. Worth a try, though. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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"Tom Winston" wrote in message ...
On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote: Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ... That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Advanced class licensees passed the Extra class written exam, and passed a 13 wpm code test. Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam -- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam. Uhhhh...in what universe? The only "Advanced" class licensees that I know of that took an Extra written test but didn't upgrade were one's who failed the 20WPM. And I'd like to know how getting more operating privileges is a "downgrade"...?!?! Would you take an airline ticket "upgrade" by moving FROM First Class to Coach? Uh uh...It's the other way around. Same here. Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met higher standards than the current crop of Extras. Perhaps. Certainly the Advanced Class folks passed a more stringent code test. My Advanced written was hard, but so was the Extra. I am proud of both. So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make that decision. Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license. Yeah...how dare they offer to get you more operating privileges without having to take any further tests...rotten scoundrels anyway... Steve, K4YZ |
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JJ wrote:
Oh great, I get to be an Extra by default. I had rather keep my Advanced, advanced even sounds more advanced than Extra does. Yeah, my son is a Tech Plus. He was thinking of upgrading to General last year but didn't bother. Now he stands to get a free upgrade. The message is clear: Don't knock yourself out; be patient and eventually they'll give you everything without asking you to expend any effort. Art Harris N2AH |
(N2EY) wrote in
: In article , Alun writes: (N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376 : http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it would reintroduce a free licence class. Not part of the proposal as I read it. As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free. No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open and it could be called something else. The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF privileges, but more HF privileges. Provided the new class that happened to be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that Why? I thought the old Novice was too easy Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above and below 30 MHz privileges. So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and receiving. Won't happen Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be dumped. It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to use manufactured equipment. Not in my opinion Moreover, it can be now, since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months. FCC will most probably just drop it completely. I think they will too Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, OK Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months? Can't stand loose ends Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to General? What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not the other? As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which is already pretty easy 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Good. Bad. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not? That space is needed for CW and digital modes. Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful spectrum to phone Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 See above Please clarify. I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 7075-7100, for example, would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2. Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation OK Agreed. Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", Not OK Why not? Current Element 2 is only 35 questions! And it has a lot more ground to cover, including all amateur VHF/UHF bands and modes, power up to "meat cooking" levels (love that WK3C phrase) and much more. By reducing the entry-level privs, 25 questions should be enough. With that power limit you could take out the RF exposure questions, but I think the test is already easy enough. General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't say here. See above. A few good ideas and a few bad ideas. Obviously the work of a committee looking to give everyone something they want, but not giving anyone everything they want. What will FCC do? First off, they may just go for the "new Novice", in an effort to attract more new hams. Re-naming the Tech as a Novice would make the test free under existing law. That has some appeal. Second, they will probably just dump Element 1. Agreed Third, they will probably not hand out free upgrades because it costs them little or nothing to keep the closed-off classes. I think that for some reason their computers are only set up to handle 5 classes of licence, but I guess that works out as there won't be two types of Tech anymore (this is also the reason why they aren't recorded differently right now). I personally am not in favour of keeping closed licence classes, though. I think it is better to move on. And that's probably about it. 73 de Jim, N2EY 73 de Jim, N2EY 73 de Alun, N3KIP |
"Alun" wrote As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free. There is no such law. As an incentive to stimulate interest, the ARRL VEC (maybe others) adopted a policy of waiving the authorized charge for the Novice examination. W5YI VEC (for one) tossed a hissy fit and tried to convince FCC to require a fee, but the FCC declined to make it mandatory. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
"Kim
wrote in message ... "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) writes: Jim: This new ARRL Proposal is pretty much what I would expect to come out of Newington these days. Except it didn't come out of Newington - it's the result of the BoD's vote. And the BoD are from all over the country, elected by the members. True indeed. However, it would be interesting to see how much "membership" actually participated a) in the election of the BoD Every full member gets a ballot. If they don't bother to fill it out and send it in, it's their loss. The requirements to run for Director are pretty simple, too. and b) how much--because of that--the ARRL's decisions are actually influenced by a majority of US Amateur Radio Operators. Obviously not as much as we might like, because the majority of US hams who bothered to express an opinion on code testing in comments to FCC back in 98-143 times wanted at least 2 code test speeds. And the comments to the various petitions now before the FCC on code testing (like RM-10811) are majority-pro-code-test. So the ARRL BoD is obviously taking some people's definition of "leadership" (meaning do what you think is best regardless of majority opinion) in proposing what they've proposed. Nothing wrong with the concept that the BoD represents someone, but who they represent is those members of whom decide to actually be active in the goings-on of the ARRL; and I don't think many do. Any numbers on that? You can look up the various BoD election results as to who got how many votes. -- What will be really interesting is if/when FCC gives it an RM number, and what the comments are. And what FCC will do. I'm thinking that the free upgrade thing (which was rejected back in restructuring time) will be rejected *again*, and that the "21st Century Novice" idea will be adopted. I recall Hans predicting a 15 wpm code test for Extra as part ot the ARRL proposal..... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote I recall Hans predicting a 15 wpm code test for Extra as part ot the ARRL proposal..... You recall wrong. To see my actual prediction, do a google group search on "ARRL BoD platitudes" without the quotes. With all kind wishes, de Hans, K0HB |
Alun wrote in message . ..
(N2EY) wrote in : In article , Alun writes: (N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376 : http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it would reintroduce a free licence class. Not part of the proposal as I read it. As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free. No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open and it could be called something else. Unless K0HB is mistaken, no such rule exists in Part 97. And since no new Novices have been issued in almost 4 years, it's a bit of a moot point. But it might be a nice thing for VECs to do... The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF privileges, but more HF privileges. Provided the new class that happened to be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that Why? I thought the old Novice was too easy Why? The old 20-25 question Novice I took in 1967 at the age of 13 was adequate to keep me out of trouble, even though my first station was homebrewed from junk parts. And that Novice license started me on the path to Advanced in about a year, Extra in about 3 years and BSEE in a little over 8 years.... And there were many many Novices like me. If an entry level license keeps the newbies out of trouble and inspires them to learn and do more, isn't that just about perfect? Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above and below 30 MHz privileges. So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down How do we define "dumbing it down"? If 35 questions are adequate for all amateur VHF/UHF at full meat-cooking power, plus 200 watts on parts of HF, shouldn't 25 be adequate for the limited privs proposed for the Novice? 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and receiving. Won't happen Probably not, but it's still a good idea. Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be dumped. It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to use manufactured equipment. Not in my opinion It's the same argument used against the code test. Why *must* a ham learn all that theory to use manufactured, approved gear with no critical adjustments? Heck, most ham gear today won't transmit out of band unless modified! Moreover, it can be now, since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months. FCC will most probably just drop it completely. I think they will too Unfortunately Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, OK Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months? Can't stand loose ends What's the problem? FCC kept the Advanced on the books from 1953 to 1967 even though no new ones were issued and the license conveyed no additional privileges at all. Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to General? What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not the other? As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which is already pretty easy Exactly. But that doesn't answer the question. You want Advanceds to get free upgrades to avoid ~82,000 loose ends, but not Techs and Tech pluses, who would amount to ~322,000 loose ends. I don't see why one and not the other. 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Good. Bad. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not? That space is needed for CW and digital modes. Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful spectrum to phone Why reward the most spectrum-inefficent modes? Why not digital voice? Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 See above Please clarify. I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 25 kHz more. 7075-7100, for example, would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2. Hams outside Region 2 will be getting 7100-7200 anyway. Let them harmonize with us. Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation OK Agreed. Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", Not OK Why not? Current Element 2 is only 35 questions! And it has a lot more ground to cover, including all amateur VHF/UHF bands and modes, power up to "meat cooking" levels (love that WK3C phrase) and much more. By reducing the entry-level privs, 25 questions should be enough. With that power limit you could take out the RF exposure questions, but I think the test is already easy enough. To a beginner, it's not so easy. General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't say here. See above. A few good ideas and a few bad ideas. Obviously the work of a committee looking to give everyone something they want, but not giving anyone everything they want. What will FCC do? First off, they may just go for the "new Novice", in an effort to attract more new hams. Re-naming the Tech as a Novice would make the test free under existing law. That has some appeal. See above about the "law". Second, they will probably just dump Element 1. Agreed Third, they will probably not hand out free upgrades because it costs them little or nothing to keep the closed-off classes. I think that for some reason their computers are only set up to handle 5 classes of licence, but I guess that works out as there won't be two types of Tech anymore (this is also the reason why they aren't recorded differently right now). Incorrect! Before restructuring, their computers handled 6 classes of license (Novice, Tech, Tech Plus, General, Advanced, Extra). In fact their computers *still* handle 6 classes! So there should be no problem at all. And as Tech Pluses continue to be renewed as Techs, expire, and upgrade, that class will disappear completely. I personally am not in favour of keeping closed licence classes, though. I think it is better to move on. I agree, but not at the price of giveaways just to make things look neater. How would you feel if it were decided to give all existing hams except Novices a free upgrade to Extra, then have just two classes - "Limited" (new name for Novice) and "Full" (everybody else)? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ... "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) writes: Jim: This new ARRL Proposal is pretty much what I would expect to come out of Newington these days. Except it didn't come out of Newington - it's the result of the BoD's vote. And the BoD are from all over the country, elected by the members. True indeed. However, it would be interesting to see how much "membership" actually participated a) in the election of the BoD and b) how much--because of that--the ARRL's decisions are actually influenced by a majority of US Amateur Radio Operators. Nothing wrong with the concept that the BoD represents someone, but who they represent is those members of whom decide to actually be active in the goings-on of the ARRL; and I don't think many do. Any numbers on that? Why single out the ARRL? Almost every organization and our national political scene is the same way. A few active people get out and vote. A few active people get out and do the work. These are the people who always have and always will shape policy. Yet those who are unwilling to vote or do the work continually whine about how they are not represented. It is the same thing throughout our society. The ARRL is not unique. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Harris" wrote in message ... JJ wrote: Oh great, I get to be an Extra by default. I had rather keep my Advanced, advanced even sounds more advanced than Extra does. Yeah, my son is a Tech Plus. He was thinking of upgrading to General last year but didn't bother. Now he stands to get a free upgrade. The message is clear: Don't knock yourself out; be patient and eventually they'll give you everything without asking you to expend any effort. Art Harris N2AH Actually I wonder if the ARRL petition isn't a crafty ruse. It will look good to people who want what it proposes but has high odds of being rejected by the FCC since the FCC has a long history of shooting down automatic upgrades. They get the "attaboy" for "trying" and can then lay it at the FCC's door when it fails even though they may want it to fail. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Alun" wrote in message ... I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 7075-7100, for example, would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2. This will crowd the CW/digital/data modes too much since there are so many US hams. It would be better to wait for the other treaty changes from the conference to take affect and synchronize Regions 1 and 3 with Region 2. You do know of course that the treaty now requires broadcasters to move out of 7.1 to 7.2 and that this will become an exclusive amateur allocation. I don't recall the timing but it is required in the treaty. Perhaps someday, the ITU will open up the 7.2 to 7.3 to the other regions. In the meantime, 7.150 to 7.200 could be a worldwide phone allocation. This is actually more space than either of the suggested proposals. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"KØHB" wrote in news:HVcPb.20602$zj7.12312
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net: "Alun" wrote As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free. There is no such law. As an incentive to stimulate interest, the ARRL VEC (maybe others) adopted a policy of waiving the authorized charge for the Novice examination. W5YI VEC (for one) tossed a hissy fit and tried to convince FCC to require a fee, but the FCC declined to make it mandatory. 73, de Hans, K0HB That's not what I read. As far as I know it is in a law that was sponsored by the late Senator Barry Goldwater, K7UGA. |
(N2EY) wrote in
om: Alun wrote in message . .. (N2EY) wrote in : In article , Alun writes: (N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376 : http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it would reintroduce a free licence class. Not part of the proposal as I read it. As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free. No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open and it could be called something else. Unless K0HB is mistaken, no such rule exists in Part 97. And since no new Novices have been issued in almost 4 years, it's a bit of a moot point. But it might be a nice thing for VECs to do... The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF privileges, but more HF privileges. Provided the new class that happened to be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that Why? I thought the old Novice was too easy Why? The old 20-25 question Novice I took in 1967 at the age of 13 was adequate to keep me out of trouble, even though my first station was homebrewed from junk parts. And that Novice license started me on the path to Advanced in about a year, Extra in about 3 years and BSEE in a little over 8 years.... And there were many many Novices like me. If an entry level license keeps the newbies out of trouble and inspires them to learn and do more, isn't that just about perfect? Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above and below 30 MHz privileges. So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down How do we define "dumbing it down"? If 35 questions are adequate for all amateur VHF/UHF at full meat-cooking power, plus 200 watts on parts of HF, shouldn't 25 be adequate for the limited privs proposed for the Novice? 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and receiving. Won't happen Probably not, but it's still a good idea. Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be dumped. It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to use manufactured equipment. Not in my opinion It's the same argument used against the code test. Why *must* a ham learn all that theory to use manufactured, approved gear with no critical adjustments? Heck, most ham gear today won't transmit out of band unless modified! Moreover, it can be now, since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months. FCC will most probably just drop it completely. I think they will too Unfortunately Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, OK Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months? Can't stand loose ends What's the problem? FCC kept the Advanced on the books from 1953 to 1967 even though no new ones were issued and the license conveyed no additional privileges at all. Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to General? What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not the other? As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which is already pretty easy Exactly. But that doesn't answer the question. You want Advanceds to get free upgrades to avoid ~82,000 loose ends, but not Techs and Tech pluses, who would amount to ~322,000 loose ends. I don't see why one and not the other. 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Good. Bad. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not? That space is needed for CW and digital modes. Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful spectrum to phone Why reward the most spectrum-inefficent modes? Why not digital voice? Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 See above Please clarify. I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 25 kHz more. 7075-7100, for example, would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2. Hams outside Region 2 will be getting 7100-7200 anyway. Let them harmonize with us. US hams outside R2 already have 7075-7100 phone Read it again. *US* hams outside R2 Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation OK Agreed. Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", Not OK Why not? Current Element 2 is only 35 questions! And it has a lot more ground to cover, including all amateur VHF/UHF bands and modes, power up to "meat cooking" levels (love that WK3C phrase) and much more. By reducing the entry-level privs, 25 questions should be enough. With that power limit you could take out the RF exposure questions, but I think the test is already easy enough. To a beginner, it's not so easy. General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't say here. See above. A few good ideas and a few bad ideas. Obviously the work of a committee looking to give everyone something they want, but not giving anyone everything they want. What will FCC do? First off, they may just go for the "new Novice", in an effort to attract more new hams. Re-naming the Tech as a Novice would make the test free under existing law. That has some appeal. See above about the "law". Second, they will probably just dump Element 1. Agreed Third, they will probably not hand out free upgrades because it costs them little or nothing to keep the closed-off classes. I think that for some reason their computers are only set up to handle 5 classes of licence, but I guess that works out as there won't be two types of Tech anymore (this is also the reason why they aren't recorded differently right now). Incorrect! Before restructuring, their computers handled 6 classes of license (Novice, Tech, Tech Plus, General, Advanced, Extra). In fact their computers *still* handle 6 classes! So there should be no problem at all. And as Tech Pluses continue to be renewed as Techs, expire, and upgrade, that class will disappear completely. I personally am not in favour of keeping closed licence classes, though. I think it is better to move on. I agree, but not at the price of giveaways just to make things look neater. Better that than the only possible alternative - taking privileges away How would you feel if it were decided to give all existing hams except Novices a free upgrade to Extra, then have just two classes - "Limited" (new name for Novice) and "Full" (everybody else)? 73 de Jim, N2EY I would be OK with that only if the Techs got only a limited licence. I would have no problem with giving Generals a full licence. Of course, to be fair you would have to extend that to Techs with old Element 3. |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
gy.com: "Alun" wrote in message ... I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 7075-7100, for example, would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2. This will crowd the CW/digital/data modes too much since there are so many US hams. It would be better to wait for the other treaty changes from the conference to take affect and synchronize Regions 1 and 3 with Region 2. You do know of course that the treaty now requires broadcasters to move out of 7.1 to 7.2 and that this will become an exclusive amateur allocation. Of course I do, but do you think they will really move? Some may, but I think some of them never will. I don't recall the timing but it is required in the treaty. Perhaps someday, the ITU will open up the 7.2 to 7.3 to the other regions. In the meantime, 7.150 to 7.200 could be a worldwide phone allocation. This is actually more space than either of the suggested proposals. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE I'm assuming that this will happen anyway. I just meant that 7075-7100, where of course there is already phone, would be more use to phone ops than the proposed 7125-7150, where there isn't. |
"Alun" wrote That's not what I read. As far as I know it is in a law that was sponsored by the late Senator Barry Goldwater, K7UGA. I'm certain you're mistaken. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
Alan wrote:
(N2EY) wrote in : In article , Alun writes: (N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376 : http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it would reintroduce a free licence class. Not part of the proposal as I read it. As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free. No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open and it could be called something else. The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF privileges, but more HF privileges. Provided the new class that happened to be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that Why? I thought the old Novice was too easy Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above and below 30 MHz privileges. So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and receiving. Won't happen Exactly. Nobody else uses code anymore. And what does the FCC get out of it? And the medical wavier issues come back.... They ain't gonna do anything to have THAT come up again! Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be dumped. It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to use manufactured equipment. Not in my opinion Moreover, it can be now, since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months. FCC will most probably just drop it completely. I think they will too Again, nobody else uses code anymore. Code made good sense back 50 years ago during the vacuum tube radio era. Simple equipment was all that was needed and given the reliability of vacuum tube stuff voice could likely fail when needed. But today's equipment is all made with chips and quite reliable. And digital modes like packet can handle automatically health and welfare traffic code used to do, with less operators needed. Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, OK Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months? Can't stand loose ends Let's say that 4 years experience as an advanced is equal to element 4B (the old extra written an advanced used to be able to take to get his extra). So make the advanced turn into an extra next April. Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to General? What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not the other? As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which is already pretty easy 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Good. Bad. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not? That space is needed for CW and digital modes. Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful spectrum to phone Are the digital modes more tolerant of SW broadcaster QRM than SSB? If so, move the digital modes to 7150-7300 and voice 7000-7150. If nothing else, it would help chase the SW broadcasters away... |
"Winston" wrote in message ... I was an Advanced in 1963. I guess, by proxy, I will be able to say I was an Extra for 40 years. I became an Extra in 1979. What will I become now. Think of it as having walked in a very large circle for the past 40 Years. : ) : ) : ) Do you think that if everyone would just buy five copies of QST every month the League would give up attempting to license every deadbeat dad and upgrading every licensee that can recite QST? Win/W0LZ Probably an accurate observation Win. All that the ARRL has ever been interested in for the past 40+ years is more subscriptions to their ad filled fishwrap. No suprise really as the ARRL's 501-C3 Charter lists them as a non-profit "scientific" publishing company. Looks like the Ivy League also has **finally** realized that the Incentive License disaster of the 1960's pretty much trashed ham radio. Now their franticly trying to back-peddle the boat before it finally goes over Niagra Falls. Not much you can do, seeing that 99.5% of young persons are more interested in Ipod, Blogging, Chatrooms and other Net related projects instead of this old antiquated hobby of their granddaddy called "ham radio". (It used to be that ham radio was unique in that it was the only alternative to making a long distance telephone call to speak with someone far away. Today anyone can do the same with a $10-per-month ISP and a PC. The NOVELTY of long distance communications for the common person has worn off - this is the root-cause of the issue - ham radio is become obsolete. ) |
Alun wrote in message .. .
(N2EY) wrote in om: Alun wrote in message . .. (N2EY) wrote in : In article , Alun writes: (N2EY) wrote in news:c2356669.0401191008.a3c8376 : http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/01/19/1/?nc=1 Summary: 3 classes of license: Novice, General, Extra The _only_ merit to that is that testing was free for Novices, so it would reintroduce a free licence class. Not part of the proposal as I read it. As I understand it, the law providing free testing for Novices remains on the books. Hence, it really does matter what the entry level licence is called. If it is re-named 'Novice', then the test is free. No, it's not part of the proposal, and having since read the whole thing on the ARRL web site, it appears that the league haven't thought about this particular wrinkle, as they say that the name is still open and it could be called something else. Unless K0HB is mistaken, no such rule exists in Part 97. And since no new Novices have been issued in almost 4 years, it's a bit of a moot point. But it might be a nice thing for VECs to do... The new Novice would replace the existing Technician class as the entry level exam. It would have less power and fewer VHF/UHF privileges, but more HF privileges. Provided the new class that happened to be called Novice had Tech Plus privileges and they had to pass the current Element 2 I would have no trouble with that Why? I thought the old Novice was too easy Why? The old 20-25 question Novice I took in 1967 at the age of 13 was adequate to keep me out of trouble, even though my first station was homebrewed from junk parts. And that Novice license started me on the path to Advanced in about a year, Extra in about 3 years and BSEE in a little over 8 years.... And there were many many Novices like me. If an entry level license keeps the newbies out of trouble and inspires them to learn and do more, isn't that just about perfect? Well? Think about it - what exactly *should* an entry-level license do? If it insures that newcomers know enough to keep out of trouble (on the air, anyway,) gives them a sample of what amateur radio is about, and inspires them to learn and do more with ham radio, isn't that just about perfect? Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above and below 30 MHz privileges. So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down How do we define "dumbing it down"? If 35 questions are adequate for all amateur VHF/UHF at full meat-cooking power, plus 200 watts on parts of HF, shouldn't 25 be adequate for the limited privs proposed for the Novice? How much is it reasonable to expect a newcomer to learn in order to be turned loose with ~100 watts on parts of HF and ~25 watts on parts of VHF/UHF? 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and receiving. Won't happen Probably not, but it's still a good idea. Morse skill testing for voice privileges is illogical and should be dumped. It's no more illogical than testing theory in order to be allowed to use manufactured equipment. Not in my opinion It's the same argument used against the code test. Why *must* a ham learn all that theory to use manufactured, approved gear with no critical adjustments? Heck, most ham gear today won't transmit out of band unless modified! Moreover, it can be now, since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months. FCC will most probably just drop it completely. I think they will too Unfortunately Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, OK Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months? Can't stand loose ends What's the problem? FCC kept the Advanced on the books from 1953 to 1967 even though no new ones were issued and the license conveyed no additional privileges at all. Do those loose ends really cause any problems? Techs and Tech Pluses get free upgrade to General Not OK in this scenario, given my comments above Agreed - but why is it OK for Advanceds to get a free upgrade to Extra, but not OK for Techs and Tech Pluses to get free upgrade to General? What is the fundamental difference that makes one freebie OK but not the other? As I see it, the new Novice would be a replacement for the Tech, which is already pretty easy Exactly. But that doesn't answer the question. You want Advanceds to get free upgrades to avoid ~82,000 loose ends, but not Techs and Tech pluses, who would amount to ~322,000 loose ends. I don't see why one and not the other. 'Phone image subbands for 80/40/15 widened slightly Good. Bad. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not? That space is needed for CW and digital modes. Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful spectrum to phone Why reward the most spectrum-inefficent modes? Why not digital voice? Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data and 'phone subbands on 80/40/15. Novices also get privs on 6, 2, 222, and 440 See above Please clarify. I see no benefit in giving over 7125-7150 to phone. 25 kHz more. 7075-7100, for example, would be the same size and in a more useful place. Moreover, it would harmonise Region 2 US hams with US hams outside R2. Hams outside Region 2 will be getting 7100-7200 anyway. Let them harmonize with us. US hams outside R2 already have 7075-7100 phone Only because they don't have 7100-7200. US hams outside R2 are rare enough to be conidered "DX" anyway. Read it again. *US* hams outside R2 I did. As they get 7100-7200, any reason to have 'phone below 7100 goes away completely. Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation OK Agreed. Novice test to be 25 questions on "basics", Not OK Why not? Current Element 2 is only 35 questions! And it has a lot more ground to cover, including all amateur VHF/UHF bands and modes, power up to "meat cooking" levels (love that WK3C phrase) and much more. By reducing the entry-level privs, 25 questions should be enough. With that power limit you could take out the RF exposure questions, but I think the test is already easy enough. To a beginner, it's not so easy. General to be derived from Tech and General, Extra pretty much as-is. What do you actually think of this proposal yourself, Jim? You don't say here. See above. A few good ideas and a few bad ideas. Obviously the work of a committee looking to give everyone something they want, but not giving anyone everything they want. What will FCC do? First off, they may just go for the "new Novice", in an effort to attract more new hams. Re-naming the Tech as a Novice would make the test free under existing law. That has some appeal. See above about the "law". Second, they will probably just dump Element 1. Agreed Third, they will probably not hand out free upgrades because it costs them little or nothing to keep the closed-off classes. I think that for some reason their computers are only set up to handle 5 classes of licence, but I guess that works out as there won't be two types of Tech anymore (this is also the reason why they aren't recorded differently right now). Incorrect! Before restructuring, their computers handled 6 classes of license (Novice, Tech, Tech Plus, General, Advanced, Extra). In fact their computers *still* handle 6 classes! So there should be no problem at all. And as Tech Pluses continue to be renewed as Techs, expire, and upgrade, that class will disappear completely. I personally am not in favour of keeping closed licence classes, though. I think it is better to move on. I agree, but not at the price of giveaways just to make things look neater. Better that than the only possible alternative - taking privileges away But is there really any reason not to simply continue those license classes? That's a much, much better option than freebies or removing privileges. How would you feel if it were decided to give all existing hams except Novices a free upgrade to Extra, then have just two classes - "Limited" (new name for Novice) and "Full" (everybody else)? 73 de Jim, N2EY I would be OK with that only if the Techs got only a limited licence. Why would Techs be singled out for a limited license? They have full privs above 50 MHz. I would have no problem with giving Generals a full licence. By your reasoning, there's no reason to have the Extra, then. Nor its test. Of course, to be fair you would have to extend that to Techs with old Element 3. Where ya been, Alun? Techs with old Element 3 (licensed before March 21, 1987) can get a General license *today* with no additional testing. Just show up at a VE session with proof of such license, fill out the 605 and pay the VE fee. Instant General. And if such a ham can pass the Extra written (might as well try, the same VE fee buys that test too), they get an Extra. Been that way since April 15, 2000. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Well? Think about it - what exactly *should* an entry-level license do? If it insures that newcomers know enough to keep out of trouble (on the air, anyway,) gives them a sample of what amateur radio is about, and inspires them to learn and do more with ham radio, isn't that just about perfect? An entry level license test should expect knowledge of how to know what frequency your transmitter is on, what mode, the subbands for which modes, how to identify RFI problems (harmonics), simple antennas, rules about IDing, no business traffic, operating (pick a frequency nobody else is using to call CQ, but once you're done it's not your frequency anymore), simple emergency traffic operations. Current Element 2 is very VHF/UHF centric, and so are current Tech Plus privs. The goal seems to be to strike more of a balance between above and below 30 MHz privileges. Aside from propagation, there's really little difference from HF and VHF/UHF. Questions like "Is 80m likely to have good propagation for DX during the daytime?" don't really address issues of safety and interference to other services. A beginner will soon learn on the air what times and bands make sense for DX operations. So change the question pool, but don't dumb it down How do we define "dumbing it down"? If 35 questions are adequate for all amateur VHF/UHF at full meat-cooking power, plus 200 watts on parts of HF, shouldn't 25 be adequate for the limited privs proposed for the Novice? Number of questions, given all the time you want to finish the test, doesn't make a test easy or hard. 5 tough questions is a lot harder to pass than 100 really easy questions. How much is it reasonable to expect a newcomer to learn in order to be turned loose with ~100 watts on parts of HF and ~25 watts on parts of VHF/UHF? 5 wpm code test retained for Extra only Predictably, I do have a problem with that. Me too. Should be at least 13 and preferably 20 wpm. Sending and receiving. Won't happen Probably not, but it's still a good idea. Why, no otehr service uses code anymore, and more modern data modes now exist. Yes, they require more advanced equipment, but modern equipment is much more reliable than the vacuum tube stuff we had 50 years ago. NASA's JPL doesn't use Morse code with the Mars probes. And that's really hard DX to do. Moreover, it can be now, since it has not been required by the ITU for the last six months. FCC will most probably just drop it completely. I think they will too Unfortunately What does the FCC get out of requiring code, now that the treaty doesn't require it anymore? Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, OK Why OK? Why not simply carry the Advanceds as a separate class, as has been done for the past 3 years and 9 months? Can't stand loose ends What's the problem? FCC kept the Advanced on the books from 1953 to 1967 even though no new ones were issued and the license conveyed no additional privileges at all. Do those loose ends really cause any problems? Not that I can see. But if there is a problem, well, let's call 4 years of experience as an advanced the same as passing the old element 4B, and make them extras. Some phone below 7100? No? Why not? That space is needed for CW and digital modes. Better to keep those on the Novice freqs and refarm more useful spectrum to phone Why reward the most spectrum-inefficent modes? Why not digital voice? Maybe designate some subbands for new and experimental modes as primary, and allow older modes on a secondary basis. That is, you have to accept interference from them, and not cause them interference. And encourage new methods of modulating the RF carrier directly instead of say 2m packet where everyone just injected the modem signal into their FM voice mode rigs. Not efficient. Old Novice subbands replaced by additional CW/data Maybe we might want some Morse code beginner subbands where new users can feel comfortable operating and not get blown away by experts. As an informal gentlemen's agreement. Need not be much bandwidth, a few "CW channels" should be enough. Novice power level set below that requiring RF exposure evaluation OK Agreed. Used to be 75 watts input power. Make it the level that most commercial yeacomwood trancievers produce "barefoot". How would you feel if it were decided to give all existing hams except Novices a free upgrade to Extra, then have just two classes - "Limited" (new name for Novice) and "Full" (everybody else)? 73 de Jim, N2EY I would be OK with that only if the Techs got only a limited licence. Then that'd be 3 classes then. Why would Techs be singled out for a limited license? They have full privs above 50 MHz. I would have no problem with giving Generals a full licence. By your reasoning, there's no reason to have the Extra, then. Nor its test. Used to be the extra only gave you a shorter callsign (if avaliable) and bragging rights. Techs with old Element 3 (licensed before March 21, 1987) can get a General license *today* with no additional testing. Just show up at a VE session with proof of such license, fill out the 605 and pay the VE fee. Instant General. And if such a ham can pass the Extra written (might as well try, the same VE fee buys that test too), they get an Extra. That's what I did. I did study for it, though. Wanted to "lock in" my element 3 and element 1 anyway (so I wouldn't need to worry about holding onto old copies of my tech license) and also might as well go for the whole enchallida while I was at it. Though that enchallida doesn't have a 20WPM topping... Been that way since April 15, 2000. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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