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Do yourself a favor. Cancel your League membership now!
All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em |
"So Phuk'em" wrote in message news:7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01... All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em I have a completly different opinion! Join the ARRL today! There is no better time than now, to join the ONLY voice that Ham Radio has. If you don't like what you, Mr I have no balls, than turn your radio off! You are not helping anyone! Like I said, my membership had paid off!!!!!! |
In article 7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01, says...
Nothing of consequence *PLONK!* -- Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute (Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR) kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available - http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) |
Actually, it's jerks like you that are intent on destroying everyone's
enjoyment of the hobby. FYI - it's the hams that have entered the hobby over the last 17 years that have boosted and improved the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. Everyone's sick of listening to whiners like you with your prognostications of doom and gloom. Do the hobby at large a favor and go phuk yourself... "So Phuk'em" wrote in message news:7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01... All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em |
I joined last week....
Tracy On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 04:40:35 GMT, "So Phuk'em" wrote: All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em |
"So Phuk'em" wrote in message news:7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01... All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em I don't normally respond to anonymous trolls, but I feel compelled to counter your statements above. IF you feel that the ARRL "is intent on destroying (your) enjoyment of the hobby," you must get your enjoyment purely from a self-delusional sense of superiority. I've been licensed for well over 25 years. The ham bands have *not* "become sounding like CB over the last 17 years" - there have always been a few bad apples - MANY of them OTs who passed the 20 wpm Morse test and believe they are some sort of gods. Yes, new hams may make some operating errors and they may need a little coaching and immersion in the "culture" of ham radio to get to the point where they sound experienced. We ALL made such mistakes when we first got on the air - learning by doing is the best way to learn. So get off your high horse ... I was unhappy with the ARRL's policy on Morse testing for a long time, and I'm still not happy with the aspect of their new proposal that would keep Morse testing for Extra. (Though I have nothing to gain personally, since I'm already an Extra.) HOWEVER, the ARRL does SO much good for ham radio that I finally decided to take out a life membership - BEFORE their proposal came out (not knowing what position they'd take on the code test). If all the OT's bail out on the ARRL over this, they will be cutting off their noses to spite their face. I encourage everyone to maintain their ARRL membership. And, I encourage those who aren't members to join. The best way to influence the ARRL in a progressive direction is from the inside - join, then talk to your ARRL Director, make your views known, and let him/her know that your vote in the next ARRL Director election in your division depends on their performance. 73, Carl - wk3c |
"So Phuk'em" wrote in message news:7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01... All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em - 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000 000000000000000000000000################0000000000 00000000000000 0000000000000000000##### #####0000000000000000000 000000000000000#### ####000000000000000 0000000000000## ##0000000000000 0000000000### ###0000000000 000000000# #000000000 0000000## ##### ###### ##0000000 000000# ####### ######## #000000 00000# ######### ########## #00000 0000# ##****### ###YOU#### #0000 000# ######### ########## #000 00# ####### ######## #00 0# ##### ###### #0 0# #0 0# #0 0# #0 0# #0 0# #0 00# # # #00 00# ## ## #00 000# ### ### #000 0000# ###### ###### #0000 00000# ######EAT **** AND DIE####### #00000 000000# #000000 0000000## ##0000000 000000000# #000000000 0000000000### ###0000000000 0000000000000## ##0000000000000 000000000000000#### ####000000000000000 0000000000000000000##### #####0000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000################0000000000 00000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000 0000000000000000000 Harvey Ball, 1922-2001 RIP :( 00000000000000 |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... [snip] HOWEVER, the ARRL does SO much good for ham radio that I finally decided to take out a life membership - BEFORE their proposal came out (not knowing what position they'd take on the code test). If all the OT's bail out on the ARRL over this, they will be cutting off their noses to spite their face. I encourage everyone to maintain their ARRL membership. And, I encourage those who aren't members to join. The best way to influence the ARRL in a progressive direction is from the inside - join, then talk to your ARRL Director, make your views known, and let him/her know that your vote in the next ARRL Director election in your division depends on their performance. 73, Carl - wk3c I agree 100%. If one wants to influence the direction of change, they've got to get in there and do the work. "Taking their marbles and going home" accomplishes nothing except leave the field wide open for people with other viewpoints. It removes the necessary balance and resulting debate that is necessary for progress. Not everyone is going to agree with the direction and result but the effort that goes into it will usually (but not always) yield a better result than when a single point of view is allowed to be put into affect without the scrutiny that comes with such debate. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes: I've been licensed for well over 25 years. I've been licensed for well over 36 years. The ham bands have *not* "become sounding like CB over the last 17 years" - Not the CW/digital subbands, anyway. The 'phone bands are another story... there have always been a few bad apples - MANY of them OTs who passed the 20 wpm Morse test and believe they are some sort of gods. SOME of them, anyway. But ALL of them passed the written tests, too. Yes, new hams may make some operating errors and they may need a little coaching and immersion in the "culture" of ham radio to get to the point where they sound experienced. We ALL made such mistakes I didn't. when we first got on the air - learning by doing is the best way to learn. Not for everything. I was unhappy with the ARRL's policy on Morse testing for a long time, and I'm still not happy with the aspect of their new proposal that would keep Morse testing for Extra. (Though I have nothing to gain personally, since I'm already an Extra.) Nor do I... HOWEVER, the ARRL does SO much good for ham radio that I finally decided to take out a life membership - BEFORE their proposal came out (not knowing what position they'd take on the code test). If all the OT's bail out on the ARRL over this, they will be cutting off their noses to spite their face. Agree 100%! I encourage everyone to maintain their ARRL membership. And, I encourage those who aren't members to join. The best way to influence the ARRL in a progressive direction is from the inside - join, then talk to your ARRL Director, make your views known, and let him/her know that your vote in the next ARRL Director election in your division depends on their performance. Exactly. So tell us what you think of the ARRL proposal, Carl. We already know about the code test, so let's just skip that part. What do you think of: 1) the "NewNovice" idea? (easy entry-level exam, limited power, more HF modes and spectrum, less VHF/UHF) 2) closing Tech to new issues? 3) free upgrades for Techs and Tech Pluses to General? 4) free upgrades for Advanceds to Extra? 5) widening of some of the 'phone image subbands? I say 1) and 2) are good ideas. The rest are bad ideas. What say you? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 23:26:17 -0600, "Lloyd Davies The GREAT TIME LORD"
wrote: "So Phuk'em" wrote in message news:7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01... All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em I have a completly different opinion! Join the ARRL today! There is no better time than now, to join the ONLY voice that Ham Radio has. If you don't like what you, Mr I have no balls, than turn your radio off! You are not helping anyone! Like I said, my membership had paid off!!!!!! You couldn't get on HF until it was given to you, lardass. |
And the ARRL is the only game in town -- we might NOT have the bands and
privileges we do without them. I am with the poster who sed: -- I have a completely different opinion! Join the ARRL today! \ 73 From The Wilderness Keyboard |
So Phuk'em wrote this troll:
I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em Have you actually listened to CB lately? Ignoring the heterodynes from the AM carriers, it sounds completely different than even a crowded during a contest ham band. |
Yes, new hams may make some operating errors and they may need a little coaching and immersion in the "culture" of ham radio to get to the point where they sound experienced. We ALL made such mistakes I didn't. Sure.... Even the best operators made errors when they first got on. I don't mean malicious intent errors, but the traditional way of IDing and such. "N2EY, WA2ISE and the group, 73s." Also things like not tying up a contest op to get his call right as I can listen to subsequent other contacts to get his call right. when we first got on the air - learning by doing is the best way to learn. Not for everything. Well , this ain't rocket science, and botching the first few contacts doesn't create a hazardous condition. Not like learning to fly 747s. |
"Lloyd Davies The GREAT TIME LORD" wrote in message .. . "So Phuk'em" wrote in message news:7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01... All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em I have a completly different opinion! Join the ARRL today! There is no better time than now, to join the ONLY voice that Ham Radio has. If you don't like what you, Mr I have no balls, than turn your radio off! You are not helping anyone! Like I said, my membership had paid off!!!!!! Anything that Llllllloooooyyyyydddd supports has to be world class crap. If you and your ilk are the 'new wave' I want nothing to do with it. Dan/W4NTI |
"Bonzi" wrote in message ... On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 23:26:17 -0600, "Lloyd Davies The GREAT TIME LORD" wrote: "So Phuk'em" wrote in message news:7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01... All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em I have a completly different opinion! Join the ARRL today! There is no better time than now, to join the ONLY voice that Ham Radio has. If you don't like what you, Mr I have no balls, than turn your radio off! You are not helping anyone! Like I said, my membership had paid off!!!!!! You couldn't get on HF until it was given to you, lardass. And when he gets there he is gonna feel like chum at a shark feeding. Dan/W4NTI |
"Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message news:NuzQb.59621$zs4.22815@fed1read01... And the ARRL is the only game in town -- we might NOT have the bands and privileges we do without them. I am with the poster who sed: -- I have a completely different opinion! Join the ARRL today! \ 73 From The Wilderness Keyboard Which is the only reason they are worth hanging with. The gang of fifteen really stepped on their you know whats on this one. Just watch how the core membership dumps them. Dan/W4NTI |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ... "So Phuk'em" wrote in message news:7HmQb.133575$I06.1201849@attbi_s01... All you old timers & O.M.'s, cancel your memberships! The ARRL board of directors and section managers are intent on destroying your enjoyment of the hobby and also in destroying the effectiveness of the service in times of national emergency. I'm sick at how the bands have become sounding like CB over the last 17 years, and the League is still intent on making things worse. So Phuk'em I don't normally respond to anonymous trolls, but I feel compelled to counter your statements above. IF you feel that the ARRL "is intent on destroying (your) enjoyment of the hobby," you must get your enjoyment purely from a self-delusional sense of superiority. I've been licensed for well over 25 years. The ham bands have *not* "become sounding like CB over the last 17 years" - there have always been a few bad apples - MANY of them OTs who passed the 20 wpm Morse test and believe they are some sort of gods. Yes, new hams may make some operating errors and they may need a little coaching and immersion in the "culture" of ham radio to get to the point where they sound experienced. We ALL made such mistakes when we first got on the air - learning by doing is the best way to learn. So get off your high horse ... I was unhappy with the ARRL's policy on Morse testing for a long time, and I'm still not happy with the aspect of their new proposal that would keep Morse testing for Extra. (Though I have nothing to gain personally, since I'm already an Extra.) HOWEVER, the ARRL does SO much good for ham radio that I finally decided to take out a life membership - BEFORE their proposal came out (not knowing what position they'd take on the code test). If all the OT's bail out on the ARRL over this, they will be cutting off their noses to spite their face. I encourage everyone to maintain their ARRL membership. And, I encourage those who aren't members to join. The best way to influence the ARRL in a progressive direction is from the inside - join, then talk to your ARRL Director, make your views known, and let him/her know that your vote in the next ARRL Director election in your division depends on their performance. 73, Carl - wk3c Well Carl, our Director . Frank Butler don't even answer e-mails on the subject, and others. Knowing the gang of 15 is so on high I can only assume they have their noses in the clouds that they can't hear us lowley constituits. Most people I have talked to, on the air, and on the internet, think the proposal is terrible. Most of which are/were ARRL members. And all to the man saying they are dropping it. Dream on. The ARRL does not listen. But its members read it loud and clear .. Its called money. And to hell with what the members really want. Dan/W4NTI |
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message ink.net... Anything that Llllllloooooyyyyydddd supports has to be world class crap. If you and your ilk are the 'new wave' I want nothing to do with it. Dan/W4NTI "Lloyd" is just stirring the **** as usual. He did this on 14.313 quite often too. (Hint: wonder why "Lloyd" is in quotes above, cause my info says it ain't been Lloyd Davies making these postings all this time over past months. It is someone else. Someone who has a colorful past and still likes to stir the **** on 14.313 even today) |
The anonymous "KeyBoard In The Wilderness" wrote:
I write my government reps and the ARRL regularly -- do you ?? I did write ARRL when I was a member, and also spoke to their reps at club meetings. But they always seemed more interested in justifying the positions the League was committed to than listening to members' ideas. There comes a time when you have to think and act for yourself. If the League is going to pander to the "give me a free upgrade" crowd, then let that crowd support them. I dropped my membership a few years ago after seeing the League's "re-structuring" proposal. Well you can drop out and scream on the NG's or you can work with and thru the ARRL to get things done. I'm not screaming, just stating my opinion. I was a League member for many years. But when they repeatedly take positions on important issues that I think are wrong, why should I continue to support them? If they feel that the long-time hams will always support them no matter what, they will continue to ignore us and take us for granted. Perhaps if enough of the Old Timers drop out, they will get the message. I doubt the ARRL reads this NG. I suspect a few of the ARRL crowd do read these NGs. The ARRL has accomplihed much in the interests of Amateur Radio. Not lately. They've also made some enormous blunders. Art Harris N2AH |
"Arthur Harris" wrote in message . .. The anonymous "KeyBoard In The Wilderness" wrote: I write my government reps and the ARRL regularly -- do you ?? I did write ARRL when I was a member, and also spoke to their reps at club meetings. But they always seemed more interested in justifying the positions the League was committed to than listening to members' ideas. Did you try running for office yourself or, if you lacked time to run, encouraging others with your views to run for office? There comes a time when you have to think and act for yourself. If the League is going to pander to the "give me a free upgrade" crowd, then let that crowd support them. I dropped my membership a few years ago after seeing the League's "re-structuring" proposal. Well you can drop out and scream on the NG's or you can work with and thru the ARRL to get things done. I'm not screaming, just stating my opinion. I was a League member for many years. But when they repeatedly take positions on important issues that I think are wrong, why should I continue to support them? If they feel that the long-time hams will always support them no matter what, they will continue to ignore us and take us for granted. Perhaps if enough of the Old Timers drop out, they will get the message. Did you try running for office yourself or, if you lacked time to run, encouraging others with your views to run for office? Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even more unbalanced viewpoint. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
In article , Robert Casey
writes: Yes, new hams may make some operating errors and they may need a little coaching and immersion in the "culture" of ham radio to get to the point where they sound experienced. We ALL made such mistakes I didn't. Sure.... That's right. Even the best operators made errors when they first got on. How do you know? I don't mean malicious intent errors, but the traditional way of IDing and such. "N2EY, WA2ISE and the group, 73s." Was that meant to be an example of how I would operate? Never happened. One of the first operating rules I learned was that the transmitting station gives his/her own call last. Learned that long before I was a ham. What you will hear from me would be "WA2ISE and the group, this is N2EY" although usually on sign-off I'll give the call of everyone in the group. Also things like not tying up a contest op to get his call right as I can listen to subsequent other contacts to get his call right. That's sloppy operating. Suppose the station you just work QSYs or experiences equipment failure right after your QSO? Then he thinks he worked you and knows your call, but you don't know his, and so didn't work him. And if the logcheckers catch it, you can cost him a QSO and maybe even a multiplier. The time to get the info of a contest station who's running them is during the QSO or *before*. when we first got on the air - learning by doing is the best way to learn. Not for everything. Well , this ain't rocket science, and botching the first few contacts doesn't create a hazardous condition. Not like learning to fly 747s. The problem is that too many folks want to just wing it rather than taking a little time to learn the right way. Or worse, they think it doesn't matter what the right way is. 73 de Jim, N2EY extra credit trivia question: where does the term "wing it" come from? Hint: Has nothing to do with aviation. |
If you want to stop this, join the ARRL and start a recall of all of
the current directors and vice directors. "Keyboard In The Wilderness" wrote in message news:NuzQb.59621$zs4.22815@fed1read01... And the ARRL is the only game in town -- we might NOT have the bands and privileges we do without them. I am with the poster who sed: -- I have a completely different opinion! Join the ARRL today! \ 73 From The Wilderness Keyboard |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...
Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even more unbalanced viewpoint. Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old hams to drop out. |
"William" wrote in message om... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even more unbalanced viewpoint. Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old hams to drop out. Although new versus old does cause friction, the balance is still needed. The new bring fresh enthusiasm and new ideas. The old have the experience to weigh these ideas and modify them so they will work or to spot ideas that have been tried in the past and known to fail. We need both old and new. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
William wrote:
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even more unbalanced viewpoint. Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old hams to drop out. HA! Good one! This is Brian, right? - Mike KB3EIA - |
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I am with the poster who sed:
-- I have a completely different opinion! Join the ARRL today! \ 73 From The Wilderness Keyboard I won't join the ARRL because full membership now requires a frontal lobotomy. If you see your section manager or Division director at a meeting or Hamfest, ask them how their surgury went, then slap the **** out of them for me. Screw'em |
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
William wrote: "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even more unbalanced viewpoint. Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old hams to drop out. HA! Good one! This is Brian, right? - Mike KB3EIA - Yup. Got tired of my real email account getting loaded with spam. |
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com...
"William" wrote in message om... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even more unbalanced viewpoint. Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old hams to drop out. Although new versus old does cause friction, the balance is still needed. The new bring fresh enthusiasm and new ideas. The old have the experience to weigh these ideas and modify them so they will work or to spot ideas that have been tried in the past and known to fail. We need both old and new. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Here we go again with the demographics. The ARS is a geriatric service. Too bad they took the birth date out of the database. |
"N2EY" wrote in message
... In article , "Carl R. Stevenson" writes: The ham bands have *not* "become sounding like CB over the last 17 years" - Not the CW/digital subbands, anyway. The 'phone bands are another story... I haven't seen it ... and you know I don't choose to operate CW. YMMV ... but I doubt it's the broad reality. there have always been a few bad apples - MANY of them OTs who passed the 20 wpm Morse test and believe they are some sort of gods. SOME of them, anyway. But ALL of them passed the written tests, too. So? I think it's a given that NO test filters out lids ... no way to fix that. Bad behavior is an enforcement issue, not something that can be dealt with "up front" through licensing requirements. [snip] So tell us what you think of the ARRL proposal, Carl. We already know about the code test, so let's just skip that part. OK, we agree that NCI will not support keeping Morse tests for ANY class of license. What do you think of: My *personal* views, NOT necessarily "NCI policy" ... 1) the "NewNovice" idea? (easy entry-level exam, limited power, more HF modes and spectrum, less VHF/UHF) Good idea ... we need to give newcomers a better taste of all of ham radio. Power restrictions make sense, and I don't see a big enforcement issue - the Novice license had power restrictions and I don't believe that ever presented a real problem. 2) closing Tech to new issues? OK by me, given a more sensible beginner class license as proposed. 3) free upgrades for Techs and Tech Pluses to General? I was initially against this idea, thinking that taking the additional written element should be a requirement. However, I've read Ed Hare's excellent *personal, not ARRL policy* comments on this from eham, and find that they make sense to me - a compelling case for a "one-shot adjustment" to make things clean in a way that nobody loses anything. 4) free upgrades for Advanceds to Extra? As #3 above ... Ed's argument are pretty persuasive if you think them through with an open mind. The tests between Tech/General and Advanced/Extra are *really* not ALL that different ... 5) widening of some of the 'phone image subbands? While I've stated many times that I would not support wholesale proliferation of SSB/SSTV to the detriment of CW/digital modes, the "refarming" of the (largely unused) "Novice bands" as proposed, is modest and I can tolerate it ... if it doesn't happen, the proposal can be tweaked a bit to allow for the increased access to HF for the "new Novices". I say 1) and 2) are good ideas. The rest are bad ideas. What say you? As I said above. Note again, these are my *personal* views after considering Ed's excellent and persuasive explaination of why he supports the proposal (of course, Ed knows that I will NOT support keeping code testing for Extra). 73, Carl - wk3c |
William wrote:
"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... "William" wrote in message .com... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even more unbalanced viewpoint. Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old hams to drop out. Although new versus old does cause friction, the balance is still needed. The new bring fresh enthusiasm and new ideas. The old have the experience to weigh these ideas and modify them so they will work or to spot ideas that have been tried in the past and known to fail. We need both old and new. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Here we go again with the demographics. The ARS is a geriatric service. Too bad they took the birth date out of the database. She's *kind* of right, Brian. I'd modify it that the oldsters should be the helpful type, not the ones spitting bile about how awful or stupid everyone is anymore. 8^) I really enjoy talking with old timers about ham radio and radio in general as long as I don't get an earful of vitriol. - Mike KB3EIA - |
"Screw'em" wrote in
news:c1%Qb.118600$5V2.616514@attbi_s53: I am with the poster who sed: -- I have a completely different opinion! Join the ARRL today! \ 73 From The Wilderness Keyboard I won't join the ARRL because full membership now requires a frontal lobotomy. If you see your section manager or Division director at a meeting or Hamfest, ask them how their surgury went, then slap the **** out of them for me. I'm afraid you *will* need to slap them in order to get their attention. The BOD doesn't listen to members or hams like me anymore. If the ARRL leadership had cared about the state of amateur radio and the quality of its operators, they never would have made the proposals that they've made over the last 11 years. To them its let us get more morons licensed so we can get more money in the ole bank account. The ARRL leadership doesn't care for quality, capable operators. But their plan will back fire on them and ham radio has and will suffer. When you hand free licenses to everyone, those people don't appreciate it and probably won't buy a membership. You always appreciate something more when you had to work harder to get it and you'll take care of it. But to the ARRL it's all about money and I'll bet anyone in this group that if they get their way with their proposal they will offer a 12 dollar discount to new ham non-members like they did at the last restructuring. "Take a ham test, and we'll discount new membership on the price of your VEC test fee!" Oh well, Nuff said. Most of you don't care anyway. Back to listening to the lids and CBer type behavior on the bands. 73 KB7ADL |
Heres something better: From the ARRLs FAG:
"Did ARRL poll its members on this proposal? How was it formulated? Because ARRL is a representative democracy, ARRL Directors listened to members in their respective divisions while considering these issues. Directors heard from many amateurs in their divisions, and some directors conducted their own surveys. The final proposal represents the Board's best effort at changes to the Amateur Radio licensing structure needed to carry us through the next 10 to 15 years." Now this makes one wonder how many members did they get Info from. Was it 5, 10, 20, or even 100. The point being before the ARRL puts forth such a proposal, it would be well Advised to determine what a Majority of there MEMBERSHIP was thinking. Untill the ARRL provides actuall figures, I can no longer see where they represent there MEMBERS WISHES. As for me, with 25 Years as a Member, they will never get 1 more RED PENNY from me for anything. |
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | 3) free upgrades for Techs and Tech Pluses to General? | | I was initially against this idea, thinking that taking the additional | written element should be a requirement. However, I've read | Ed Hare's excellent *personal, not ARRL policy* comments | on this from eham, and find that they make sense to me - a | compelling case for a "one-shot adjustment" to | make things clean in a way that nobody loses anything. I haven't seen Ed Hare's argument, so I can't comment on it. If the "adjustment" were some minor clean-up to sweep up the remnants of a long abandoned legacy class and the number of licenses involved was trivial (under 10,000), then I'd have no problem with it. But we aren't dealing with some trival number, we are dealing with almost 2/3rds of existing licensees. The message ARRL sends with this proposal is "our General (and Extra) qualifications" are more strenuous than need be. Such a free-pass would establish that all these hundreds of thousands of licensees have been qualified for General (or Extra) all along. At that moment it is established, ipso facto, that the current Technician examination is sufficient for the 'new General' and that the last Advanced examination is sufficient for the 'new Extra'. Up until now I have never raised the cry of "dumbing down", but such a mass give-away would set a new lower bar for all future qualification levels in the Amateur Radio service, and your position allegedly in support of strenuous technical qualification standards rings hollow indeed. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
"WA8ULX" wrote | Because ARRL is a representative democracy, ARRL Directors listened to members | in their respective divisions while considering these issues. Directors heard | from many amateurs in their divisions, and some directors conducted their own | surveys. The final proposal represents the Board's best effort at changes to | the Amateur Radio licensing structure needed to carry us through the next 10 to | 15 years." I, for one, suggest that popularity polls and beauty contests are not a particularly good method for influencing and guiding the evolution of the Amateur Radio service. This is particularly true for the National Association for Amateur Radio, which in my not-so-humble-opinion is abdicating its responsibility to show leadership and vision, but has cobbled together an unimaginative proposal lacking both, and copping out by passing it off as "listened to members" An example of an alternative is at http://tinyurl.com/wce9 73, de Hans, K0HB |
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... William wrote: "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... "William" wrote in message .com... "Dee D. Flint" wrote in message igy.com... Old timers dropping out will not do a thing. There are enough new people coming in that they won't even notice. Instead we will be left with an even more unbalanced viewpoint. Depends on your point of view. I'm going to encourage more cranky old hams to drop out. Although new versus old does cause friction, the balance is still needed. The new bring fresh enthusiasm and new ideas. The old have the experience to weigh these ideas and modify them so they will work or to spot ideas that have been tried in the past and known to fail. We need both old and new. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Here we go again with the demographics. The ARS is a geriatric service. Too bad they took the birth date out of the database. She's *kind* of right, Brian. I'd modify it that the oldsters should be the helpful type, not the ones spitting bile about how awful or stupid everyone is anymore. 8^) I really enjoy talking with old timers about ham radio and radio in general as long as I don't get an earful of vitriol. - Mike KB3EIA - Keep in mind also that the vitriolic ones tend to be highly vocal and noticeable thus giving people the impression that there are a lot of them when in reality they are only a handful. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
I was initially against this idea, thinking that taking the additional | written element should be a requirement. However, I've read | Ed Hare's excellent *personal, not ARRL policy* comments | on this from eham, and find that they make sense to me - a | compelling case for a "one-shot adjustment" to | make things clean in a way that nobody loses anything. I missed this, but as usual Mr CBplusser himself backs down. How many times has Karl stated that he would fight to the end if what is about to happens. |
In article .net, "KØHB"
writes: "Carl R. Stevenson" wrote | 3) free upgrades for Techs and Tech Pluses to General? | | I was initially against this idea, thinking that taking the additional | written element should be a requirement. However, I've read | Ed Hare's excellent *personal, not ARRL policy* comments | on this from eham, and find that they make sense to me - a | compelling case for a "one-shot adjustment" to | make things clean in a way that nobody loses anything. I haven't seen Ed Hare's argument, so I can't comment on it. Me neither - can you post a link? If the "adjustment" were some minor clean-up to sweep up the remnants of a long abandoned legacy class and the number of licenses involved was trivial (under 10,000), then I'd have no problem with it. But we aren't dealing with some trival number, we are dealing with almost 2/3rds of existing licensees. ?? Let's see - as of January 15, 2004: Novice - 32,718 Technician - 259,949 Technician Plus - 62,714 General - 141,443 Advanced - 81,961 Extra - 104,946 Total - 683,731 Total Technicians and Pluses: 322,663 322,663/683,731 = about 47.2% of existing hams getting a free upgrade to General 81,961/683,731 = about 11.9% of existing hams getting a free upgrade to Extra Total of about 59.1% getting a free upgrade - wow! The message ARRL sends with this proposal is "our General (and Extra) qualifications" are more strenuous than need be. Such a free-pass would establish that all these hundreds of thousands of licensees have been qualified for General (or Extra) all along. At that moment it is established, ipso facto, that the current Technician examination is sufficient for the 'new General' and that the last Advanced examination is sufficient for the 'new Extra'. I agree 100%. And that's not the only message. Such giveaways also say that the tests are so difficult that existing hams cannot be reasonably expected to pass them on their own - but new hams have to! Up until now I have never raised the cry of "dumbing down", but such a mass give-away would set a new lower bar for all future qualification levels in the Amateur Radio service, and your position allegedly in support of strenuous technical qualification standards rings hollow indeed. Remember what I was talking about some weeks back, Hans - and Carl asked me to be quiet in case someone got the idea? There's no good reason I can see to give existing Techs, Tech Pluses and Advanceds a bye on the writtens for the next license class. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
In article om, "Dee D.
Flint" writes: Although new versus old does cause friction, the balance is still needed. The new bring fresh enthusiasm and new ideas. The old have the experience to weigh these ideas and modify them so they will work or to spot ideas that have been tried in the past and known to fail. We need both old and new. Well said, Dee! There's also the need to recognize that newer is not always better, yet if you never try anyhting different you may never get anything different. "The art of progress is to preserve order amid change and to preserve change amid order." - Alfred North Whitehead 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"N2EY" wrote in message ... In article om, "Dee D. Flint" writes: Although new versus old does cause friction, the balance is still needed. The new bring fresh enthusiasm and new ideas. The old have the experience to weigh these ideas and modify them so they will work or to spot ideas that have been tried in the past and known to fail. We need both old and new. Well said, Dee! There's also the need to recognize that newer is not always better, yet if you never try anyhting different you may never get anything different. "The art of progress is to preserve order amid change and to preserve change amid order." - Alfred North Whitehead 73 de Jim, N2EY The quote says it even better though. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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