Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
Lennie, is there some reason you can take time to antagonize and
muck-rake through other threads, but you cannot answer a question put
directly to you?

Steve, this is America, not East Germany. We have the right not to
answer without some thug putting is jack boot on our throat.

Bleeping Bill,

There is no East Germany.

Let's take the time machine back to 1972....

Teacher: "Brian Burke, what key factors led to the drafting of the 1964
Civil Rights bill?"

William-Brian: "I understand that a number of Frenchmen commonly
disregard their own laws."

Teacher: "Is it possible for you to answer a direct question?"

William-Brian: "This is America, not East Germany. We have the right
not to answer without some thug putting is jack boot on our throat."


Dave K8MN

Bleeping David, I stand corrected. I should have stated "TFUSSRSCFKA
East Germany." It never occured to me that the image of human
opression in that former country would have been so fleeting. How
quickly you forget. But thank you for your vigilance as netgroup cop.
It is important work for you. You are free to go back to working out
of band Frenchmen again.

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
Lennie, is there some reason you can take time to antagonize and
muck-rake through other threads, but you cannot answer a question put
directly to you?

Steve, this is America, not East Germany. We have the right not to
answer without some thug putting is jack boot on our throat.

Bleeping Bill,

There is no East Germany.

Let's take the time machine back to 1972....

Teacher: "Brian Burke, what key factors led to the drafting of the 1964
Civil Rights bill?"

William-Brian: "I understand that a number of Frenchmen commonly
disregard their own laws."

Teacher: "Is it possible for you to answer a direct question?"

William-Brian: "This is America, not East Germany. We have the right
not to answer without some thug putting is jack boot on our throat."

Bleeping David, I stand corrected. I should have stated "TFUSSRSCFKA
East Germany." It never occured to me that the image of human
opression in that former country would have been so fleeting. How
quickly you forget.

See how you play it? I tell you that there is no East Germany; you tell
me that I've quickly forgotten. I didn't forget anything, Brian. I
told you that there is no East Germany.

But thank you for your vigilance as netgroup cop.

You did not receive a citation. You are not required to pay a fine.

It is important work for you. You are free to go back to working out
of band Frenchmen again.

And you are free to continue your fetish over things French. Give my
regards to Doctor Evil.

Dave K8MN

In article , "Jim Hampton"
writes:

I know you love to .... um .... shake things up .... but ... I had my 1st
class radiotelephone license in 1966.

Irrelevant in this newsgroup. Some of the amateurs in here seem to
think an Amateur Extra class license is a "PhD in radio." No other
radio licenses are allowed to figure in...

I also worked in Electromagnetic Compatibilty testing in 1995.

Another guy in here has you beat...worked as a purchasing agent
for a set-top box maker. High-level knowledge.

EMI testing, Tempest, the whole works is fairly normal work on any
DoD contract. So? You think BPL is equivalent to an EMP?!?

Believe me, even an improperly grounded power
pole can cause problems.

Yes, all those wooden utility poles are real tough radiators...?

No, I am not suggesting "interfering" with an
unlicensed service. I am suggesting asserting the rights of a licensed
service.

OK, plant the flag and claim HF is the sovereign terrortory of hams.

Mama Dee has interpreted the law and sent down an encyclical that
any ham can do anything as long as they have a LICENSE and "are
authoritized to radiate."

Not quite right, that, but it pleases the machismo of some.

You rather clearly stated an INTENT to interfere. Intent is not
evidenciary per se, but it doesn't win you any friends in court..

Unlicensed services may not cause interference and must put up
with interference.

Nooo, not quite and the OET won't buy that by itself, nor would any
courts in most countries, USA included.

If all could be summed up that easily, it would be "perfectly legal"
for you to hold a 5 W HT up to the abdomen of a pacemaker wearer
and thumb the PTT switch. Are you licensed by the FCC to
deliberately interfere with anything? I don't think so. We can toss a
coin to see if the pacemaker wearer has an infarc.

You, and some others, think this is an "amateur vs. the
world" thing. It is not.

I didn't write that. You imagined that in another burst of macho
testosterone, ASSERTING yourself.

Does your geographic territory NEED another beacon? The
pioneering and exploration of HF was pretty much over with when
the USA got into WW2. If you NEED QSLs so much, advertise for
some on the Internet.

There will be problems with other services, I can assure you.

Duhhhhhh...no kiddin, huh?

Jim, I'm more than well aware of potential interference problems in
radio, all the way from VLF on up into the microwaves. That's where
I've been working for a half century and still keep my hand in.

I've also had four tours of duty as a juror and understand quite well
what INTENT is. No LLD needed for that.

All the aging olde-tyme hammes in here seem to be ASSERTING
themselves in some adolescent machismo in tuff tawk...and none of
them has demonstrated knowledge-one about the BPL signal levels
or the data protocol or anything else about any BPL system proposed.
None of the tuff tawkers seem to know anything yet they all talk like
they are a cross between expert PhDs in EMI and The Terminator
gutturally announcing "Ahl be backkk." [just before driving through
the door of a police station and killing lots of cops] :-)

All that anyone seems to want to do is wait until Newington spoon-feeds
them "what they need to know" and cause a lot of wing-flapping and
squawking. Nobody seems to check the FCC website. Nobody has
gone out to try to find a representative technical document from one of
the proposed BPL systems. All seem to be whistling in the dark while
tiptoeing through the graveyard.

The NPRM is announced as docket number 04-37 and there is one
document (as of Saturdy, 21 Feb 04) on that NPRM. The text of the
NPRM isn't available on the 'web. Perhaps the executives in
Newington have a copy...the general public doesn't have it available.

None of you KNOW what the characteristics of any proposed BPL
system IS, yet you are all "expert" on it becoming the downfall of HF
for Hams. Will it interfere in general? Probably. Will it have terrible
interference and cancel all the events in the ham playground? Unknown.

Meanwhile, think about how you wing-flappers appear to the guvmint
and the industry, all the while demonstrating near-absolute-zero on
thinking and radiation expertise. Tawkin tuff in here doesn't cut it on
getting rid of it. Tawking tuff doan police your playground. EM
spectrum ain't da 'hood and you guys ain't da onley Boyz in da HF
'hood.

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(William) writes:

Lennie, is there some reason you can take time to antagonize and
muck-rake through other threads, but you cannot answer a question put
directly to you?

Steve, K4YZ

Steve, this is America, not East Germany. We have the right not to
answer without some thug putting is jack boot on our throat.

Don't bother with him, Brian. The gunnery nurse went over to the
dark side of Checkpoint Charlie a long time ago. He is Grade A
Stasi (Statspolizei), Certified. [emphasis on the latter]

He may be getting hand-me-downs from Kolonel Klunk, der
Komandant, when they do lunch along the Ku-damm.

LHA / WMD

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
Lennie, is there some reason you can take time to antagonize and
muck-rake through other threads, but you cannot answer a question put
directly to you?

Steve, this is America, not East Germany. We have the right not to
answer without some thug putting is jack boot on our throat.

Bleeping Bill,

There is no East Germany.

Let's take the time machine back to 1972....

Teacher: "Brian Burke, what key factors led to the drafting of the 1964
Civil Rights bill?"

William-Brian: "I understand that a number of Frenchmen commonly
disregard their own laws."

Teacher: "Is it possible for you to answer a direct question?"

William-Brian: "This is America, not East Germany. We have the right
not to answer without some thug putting is jack boot on our throat."

Bleeping David, I stand corrected. I should have stated "TFUSSRSCFKA
East Germany." It never occured to me that the image of human
opression in that former country would have been so fleeting. How
quickly you forget.

See how you play it? I tell you that there is no East Germany; you tell
me that I've quickly forgotten. I didn't forget anything, Brian. I
told you that there is no East Germany.

Sorry, Dave, but it might have worked if you had told me there was no "Atlantis."

But thank you for your vigilance as netgroup cop.

You did not receive a citation. You are not required to pay a fine.

Hopefully you won't require me to work out of band Frenchmen as community service.

It is important work for you. You are free to go back to working out
of band Frenchmen again.

And you are free to continue your fetish over things French. Give my
regards to Doctor Evil.

Regards, Dr. Evil.

"Phil Kane" wrote in message . net...
On 22 Feb 2004 01:02:36 GMT, N2EY wrote:

I undertand
that they would use a band of frequencies which would "endanger" our
2.4 Mhz allocations. But like I posted somewhere else earlier, I'll
trade 2.4 Mhz for 14 Mhz any day.

The 802.11b "Wi-Fi" LAN technology operates at 2.4 GHz, not MHz.

QSL.

The nice part about that is that Wi-Fi Channel 1 (IIRC) falls
totally within the portion of the band that is shared between
Amateur and Non-Licensed Part 15 users, and (theoretically, at
least) a licensed ham can hang a super-high-gain antenna and a power
amp on a commnercial Wi-Fi unit (CompUSA "special") operating on
that channel, modifications that non-licensed Part 15 users cannot
do.

Just think what 1500 W TPO would do to the neighborhood Wi-Fi users.

DX records. "King of the Hill".

****er-offer to end all.

But would it be any worse than the days when the first consumer TV
receivers hit the shelves and hams "invented" TVI? How long ago?? It's
all circles.

Some of them do and that's not good. Others are in the 5 GHz region.

802.11g - "Wide-Area" LAN or WAN. The Bay Area Wireless
Communications Alliance members were discussing this about 5
years ago when I was active with that group. A higher-powered
version requiring a point-to-multipoint microwave system license
was starting to be pitched to a different crowd from the 802.11b
(2.4 GHz) users.

What is most important is that we can have a protected slice of GHz *and*
those technologies can exist.

The current show-stopper for the 802.11 crowd seems to be a lack of
standards and coordination. Which is very typical of fledgling
technologies,

These ARE standards. Just different applications.

Depends on what/how/who defines a "standard". Touch-tone pads are
standard. The rest are questionable on that scale, and in the case of
the instant topic very questionable. I spend a good bit of time
cruising the financial news, London Financial Times, Reuters, Business
Week, anywhere where I don't have to cough up coin to get into like
the WSJ. The technologies which will matter down the road are those
Wall Street buys into. The rest will be orphaned. Good collection of
articles by the investments pundits on the likes of Wi-Fi and the
related standards problems they see in this field.

http://www.businessweek.com/technolo.../tc_04wifi.htm

Speaking of orphans . . I have yet to run into a single peep about BPL
anywhere in the tech investments rags so far. I think this silently
speaks volumes about the future of BPL.

Carl Stevenson
is a national and international expert on them.

Yup, would have been nice to have him in this thread.

And eventually evolutionary forces will do what they've
always done and some 802.11 type system or another will be ready to
market on a global scale.

Both the 802.11b (short-range) and 802.11g (long-range) systems have
been marketed on a global scale for several years. Don't confuse
them with the differing standards for cellphoes and color TV - USA
vs the rest of the world.

You're right.

BINGO! I knew you'd get it. Just like VHS smacked Beta's rear years ago.

What makes you think that Beta died when VHS became the consumer
standard? The TV and broadcast industry standardized on Beta for
field recording, but alas Sony is no longer supporting it, having
had it replaced by digital technology. Look for the same thing to
happen with VHS - "everyone" is going to DVDs.

They're selling computers which don't have floppy drives. I tried to
remember when I last used a floppy. Years ago.

w3rv

"Phil Kane" wrote in message . net...
On 21 Feb 2004 07:12:26 -0800, Brian Kelly wrote:

It will be interesting to see who the movers and shakers (read:
investors and controllers) of the BPL business are when the
inevitable Congressional inquiry is forced to take place.

What do you see triggering a Congressional flap over BPL??

Knowledgeable member of Some Agency gets p.o.-ed at The Power that
pushes this down eveyone's throat, damn the interference, full speed
ahead, and uses back-channel contacts to The Congress which wants
some reason to stick The Power anyhow and gather headlines.

Ought to make a good "made-for-television" script or maybe even "The
West Wing".

Might not be too far off base here Phil. There's a congresscritter/ham
who has expressed his view and he's on the telecoms committee.


Or maybe no one really gives a damn.....

Nah, a lotta folk give a damn.



"No Millionaire Left Behind" ???

.. . oughta be an interesting campaign . .

Stay tuned. November is coming up rapidly...

Can't happen soon enough for me.

w3rv