In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:

On 21 Mar 2004 20:58:48 GMT, N2EY wrote:

That storm also involved damage that close roads and made simple things like
getting fuel for generators very difficult.

Was the "Piped" natural gas delivery interrupted? I'm a huge fan of
"piped gas" fueled gensets rather than stored propane, CNG, or diesel.

It's my understanding that the natural gas kept flowing. But that solution only
works if you are close enough to a gas main to make installation of a service
practical and affordable, and if the disasters encountered do not disrupt
service. In earthquake areas, for example, I doubt you'd ant to depend on
underground gas supply for emergencies. SNow and ice storms are a different
game.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

As long as the cell phones are avaialble, they are obviously the preferred
method because anyone so equipped can push 911 and report directly.

I think this may be the confusion here also. A cell phone is great for
localized small-scale problems. If everyone has one, then of course they
will be great for calling 911. An accident happens and likely the next
person ther will have a cell phone. One of the best reasons for having
one of the otherwise evil little devices.

AH, Mike, I see where you're going with this. And I agree!

As the scale of problems gets bigger, then they become of less use,
their usefulness being inversely proportional to the scale of the problem.

Eventually, the cellular concept falls apart because of the massive
support structure needed for the instruments use, and that often the
same disasters that make emergency comms necessary take out that
infrastucture.

Even if the infrastructure is largely intact, it can be overwhelmed by the
unexpected demand.

I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing

people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.

Because they'd never encountered that behavior before.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

The ONLY "unlicensed" devices in the facility were two cordless
phones, both of which were part of unsecure phone lines.

"Unsecure?!?" You saw KY-98s in that facility? KY-57s?

Did I say that, Lennie?

Playing war games were you?

Nope. Participating in one of those drills you seem to think no
one needs to participate in.

I am wondering, Brain, is THAT what YOU call a "MAJOR
ROLE"...?!?!

Putz.

Yup, rude and obnoxious, comes unglued on the slightest
disagreement. Well, at least that is consistent with previous
behavior of yours.


And you're still a putz and Brain Burke has still not answered a
simple question in repsonse to assertions HE made...

No problem.

Steve, K4YZ

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...

Lennie the Loser is trying to argue a point Jim's making that
actually echoes some of HIS sentiments...

How perculiar.

Perambulate your personal perspective, but don't pester us
particularly with poorly percolated petty pesterings promoted as
a perspicatious presentation when it is really perseverance of
persiflage. Ptui.

"Perculiar" indeed.

My typo notwithstanding, the questions remain:

What "MAJOR" role do the "unlicensed" services play in "emergency comms?

Is being insulting, rude, obnoxious, and resorting to toilet humor
considerd "civil amateur behavior?" Certainly not, yet you seem
to do nothing else in here.

What "MAJOR" role do the "unlicensed" services play in "emergency comms"?

Continued delaying tactics and obfuscation are admissions of lying.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(William) wrote in message . com...

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...

Snipped.

Here we are four days after I posted the original thread, and so
far the only "answer" to the question as to why Brain cannot answer
questions about assertions HE made have been a concerted effort by he
and Lennie to mount a
flood the NG with rhetoric" campaign.

Oh well.

Brain makes assertions of "fact", then calls those who call his
"facts" into question "obnoxious", "nuts" or other perjoratives" that
I am sure Lennie is feeding him.

Brain Burke...class clown...with no class.

Brain likes to make claims and assertions about Amateur Radio or
other radio related topics that he can't/won't validate...Worse yet is
taht most of those "assertions" are easily disproven.

Oh well...that's how he "earned" the playful moniker "Brain".

OK.

Steve, K4YZ

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:

On 21 Mar 2004 20:58:48 GMT, N2EY wrote:

That storm also involved damage that close roads and made simple things like
getting fuel for generators very difficult.

Was the "Piped" natural gas delivery interrupted? I'm a huge fan of
"piped gas" fueled gensets rather than stored propane, CNG, or diesel.

It's my understanding that the natural gas kept flowing. But that solution only
works if you are close enough to a gas main to make installation of a service
practical and affordable, and if the disasters encountered do not disrupt
service. In earthquake areas, for example, I doubt you'd ant to depend on
underground gas supply for emergencies. SNow and ice storms are a different
game.

I don't live in an area which is prone to earthquakes. I weighed likely
scenarios and noted that in many emergencies, gasoline and diesel fuel
are the not always easily obtained. In some instances they are hoarded
and the prices can skyrocket. In a prolonged power outage, many station
have no power to pump the fuel.

My solution was to buy a 3.5 KW gasoline generator and to purchase a kit
to convert it to natural gas or propane operation. The generator is a
Craftsman with a Briggs and Stratton engine. The conversion kit was
only eighty dollars. It cost me another 30 dollars to purchase a high
pressure rubber hose with brass pipe fittings on each end to avoid
transmitting the vibration of the generator back to the house. This is
much cheaper than purchasing a generator specifically made for use with
natural gas.

A major factor in making my decision is that I pay nothing for natural
gas.

Dave K8MN

In article , says...
N2EY wrote:

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:

On 21 Mar 2004 20:58:48 GMT, N2EY wrote:

That storm also involved damage that close roads and made simple things like
getting fuel for generators very difficult.

Was the "Piped" natural gas delivery interrupted? I'm a huge fan of
"piped gas" fueled gensets rather than stored propane, CNG, or diesel.

It's my understanding that the natural gas kept flowing. But that solution only
works if you are close enough to a gas main to make installation of a service
practical and affordable, and if the disasters encountered do not disrupt
service. In earthquake areas, for example, I doubt you'd ant to depend on
underground gas supply for emergencies. SNow and ice storms are a different
game.

I don't live in an area which is prone to earthquakes. I weighed likely
scenarios and noted that in many emergencies, gasoline and diesel fuel
are the not always easily obtained. In some instances they are hoarded
and the prices can skyrocket. In a prolonged power outage, many station
have no power to pump the fuel.

My solution was to buy a 3.5 KW gasoline generator and to purchase a kit
to convert it to natural gas or propane operation. The generator is a
Craftsman with a Briggs and Stratton engine. The conversion kit was
only eighty dollars. It cost me another 30 dollars to purchase a high
pressure rubber hose with brass pipe fittings on each end to avoid
transmitting the vibration of the generator back to the house. This is
much cheaper than purchasing a generator specifically made for use with
natural gas.

A major factor in making my decision is that I pay nothing for natural
gas.

Dave K8MN

Aren't those 1/8th royalties great.

"Steven R. Adell - KF2TI" wrote:

In article , says...
N2EY wrote:

In article , "Phil Kane"
writes:

On 21 Mar 2004 20:58:48 GMT, N2EY wrote:

That storm also involved damage that close roads and made simple things like
getting fuel for generators very difficult.

Was the "Piped" natural gas delivery interrupted? I'm a huge fan of
"piped gas" fueled gensets rather than stored propane, CNG, or diesel.

It's my understanding that the natural gas kept flowing. But that solution only
works if you are close enough to a gas main to make installation of a service
practical and affordable, and if the disasters encountered do not disrupt
service. In earthquake areas, for example, I doubt you'd ant to depend on
underground gas supply for emergencies. SNow and ice storms are a different
game.

I don't live in an area which is prone to earthquakes. I weighed likely
scenarios and noted that in many emergencies, gasoline and diesel fuel
are the not always easily obtained. In some instances they are hoarded
and the prices can skyrocket. In a prolonged power outage, many station
have no power to pump the fuel.

My solution was to buy a 3.5 KW gasoline generator and to purchase a kit
to convert it to natural gas or propane operation. The generator is a
Craftsman with a Briggs and Stratton engine. The conversion kit was
only eighty dollars. It cost me another 30 dollars to purchase a high
pressure rubber hose with brass pipe fittings on each end to avoid
transmitting the vibration of the generator back to the house. This is
much cheaper than purchasing a generator specifically made for use with
natural gas.

A major factor in making my decision is that I pay nothing for natural
gas.

Aren't those 1/8th royalties great.

Some folks took royalties and some took free gas, Steve. Whoever owned
this place way back, took the free gas though it has a limit of 300,000
cubic feet yearly. We heat the barn through the winter and still have
about 120,000 cubic feet left each year. The natural gas generator and
the greenhouse lean-to we're putting on the back of the barn will help
eat up some of that unused allotment.

Now if I could just find a natural gas compressor, I'd work on
converting the riding mower...

Dave K8MN

Subject: Why Can't N-ZERO-IMD Validate His Own Claims...?!?!
From: Dave Heil
Date: 3/22/2004 2:53 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Now if I could just find a natural gas compressor, I'd work on
converting the riding mower...

I know where you can find a natural gas disperser in Ohio, if you need
one, Dave...

nyuknyuknyuk....

73

Steve, K4YZ

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


As long as the cell phones are avaialble, they are obviously the preferred
method because anyone so equipped can push 911 and report directly.

I think this may be the confusion here also. A cell phone is great for
localized small-scale problems. If everyone has one, then of course they
will be great for calling 911. An accident happens and likely the next
person ther will have a cell phone. One of the best reasons for having
one of the otherwise evil little devices.


AH, Mike, I see where you're going with this. And I agree!

As the scale of problems gets bigger, then they become of less use,
their usefulness being inversely proportional to the scale of the problem.

Eventually, the cellular concept falls apart because of the massive
support structure needed for the instruments use, and that often the
same disasters that make emergency comms necessary take out that
infrastucture.


Even if the infrastructure is largely intact, it can be overwhelmed by the
unexpected demand.

Correct! Which makes it not a likely candidate for emergency services.
If it works to let people know you're still alive or need help or
whatever, of course you use it. But it is still very much a point to
point solution. Which is to say, not a solution for large scale disasters.




I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing


people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.


Because they'd never encountered that behavior before.

Indicative on not knowing how the little things work. No tower or
power, no cell.

- mike KB3EIA -