In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Even if the infrastructure is largely intact, it can be overwhelmed by the
unexpected demand.

Correct! Which makes it not a likely candidate for emergency services.
If it works to let people know you're still alive or need help or
whatever, of course you use it. But it is still very much a point to
point solution. Which is to say, not a solution for large scale disasters.

Or even for localized disasters in high density areas.
I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing
people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.

Because they'd never encountered that behavior before.

Indicative on not knowing how the little things work. No tower or
power, no cell.

Of course. It's also possible that the system was being overwhelmed. Doesn't
really matter, if something is unavailable, the cause doesn't matter too much
except as an an indicator of when service might return, and as a lesson in what
to do different next time.

The ignorance of things technical is nothing new, of course. In some ways,
industries promote technical ignorance by using new terms (like "wireless" and
"cordless" rather than "radio") which make the technology actually used less
than clear.

--

You might also enjoy this site:

http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous site.
Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Even if the infrastructure is largely intact, it can be overwhelmed by the
unexpected demand.

Correct! Which makes it not a likely candidate for emergency services.
If it works to let people know you're still alive or need help or
whatever, of course you use it. But it is still very much a point to
point solution. Which is to say, not a solution for large scale disasters.


Or even for localized disasters in high density areas.

I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing
people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.



Because they'd never encountered that behavior before.


Indicative on not knowing how the little things work. No tower or
power, no cell.


Of course. It's also possible that the system was being overwhelmed. Doesn't
really matter, if something is unavailable, the cause doesn't matter too much
except as an an indicator of when service might return, and as a lesson in what
to do different next time.

The ignorance of things technical is nothing new, of course. In some ways,
industries promote technical ignorance by using new terms (like "wireless" and
"cordless" rather than "radio") which make the technology actually used less
than clear.

I sometimes wonder what these people "do" spend their time thinking about.

You might also enjoy this site:

http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous site.
Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

Cool! I just heard about the tower this past weekend, and here you come
along with a link to it Good timing, Jim. It's a little scary at first
sight, but a magnificent structure nonetheless.

As for the concerned residents of Alpine, they might want to chuck
their cell phones if they are so worried about RF exposure - though of
course I'm sure they never use them! 8^)

But frankly, they strike mer as being less than smart. And I do like
the term "McMansion"!

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:


Even if the infrastructure is largely intact, it can be overwhelmed by the
unexpected demand.

Correct! Which makes it not a likely candidate for emergency services.
If it works to let people know you're still alive or need help or
whatever, of course you use it. But it is still very much a point to
point solution. Which is to say, not a solution for large scale disasters.


Or even for localized disasters in high density areas.

I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing
people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.



Because they'd never encountered that behavior before.


Indicative on not knowing how the little things work. No tower or
power, no cell.


Of course. It's also possible that the system was being overwhelmed.
Doesn't
really matter, if something is unavailable, the cause doesn't matter too
much
except as an an indicator of when service might return, and as a lesson in
what
to do different next time.

The ignorance of things technical is nothing new, of course. In some ways,
industries promote technical ignorance by using new terms (like "wireless"
and
"cordless" rather than "radio") which make the technology actually used
less
than clear.

I sometimes wonder what these people "do" spend their time thinking about.

Other things! Isn't modern life complex enough?

You might also enjoy this site:

http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous
site. Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

Cool! I just heard about the tower this past weekend, and here you come

along with a link to it Good timing, Jim.

bwaahaahaa

....ze barracuda knowz whean to sterike...

It's a little scary at first
sight, but a magnificent structure nonetheless.

I've seen it from a distance but never up close. It's on the list. (I've been
to W1AW and operated there. Also visited NIST in Boulder and the WWV/WWVB
transmitter site in Fort Collins.)

As for the concerned residents of Alpine, they might want to chuck
their cell phones if they are so worried about RF exposure - though of
course I'm sure they never use them! 8^)

"Inverse square law? What's that?"

But frankly, they strike mer as being less than smart.

Do not underestimate folks like that. Look at the BPL mess. Did you see the
Wall Street Journal article?

Remember that whenever someone describes ham radio as "a hobby", they are
giving the BPL folks an argument against us. If amateur radio is "just a
hobby", then why should it be any more important than anyone else's hobby, such
as downloading pr0n via BPL?

And I do like the term "McMansion"!

We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly by
cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


some snippage


I sometimes wonder what these people "do" spend their time thinking about.


Other things! Isn't modern life complex enough?


True! like who's on "The Simple Life" tonight, or that insulting talent
search show - lotsa important stuff like that.

Modern life has always been complex enough, always has been and always
will be!


You might also enjoy this site:



http://www.fybush.com/site-021219.html

Interesting history of W2XMN, the past, present and future of a famous
site. Click on the links to see how far ignorance can go.

Cool! I just heard about the tower this past weekend, and here you come


along with a link to it Good timing, Jim.


bwaahaahaa

...ze barracuda knowz whean to sterike...


It's a little scary at first
sight, but a magnificent structure nonetheless.


I've seen it from a distance but never up close. It's on the list. (I've been
to W1AW and operated there. Also visited NIST in Boulder and the WWV/WWVB
transmitter site in Fort Collins.)

As for the concerned residents of Alpine, they might want to chuck
their cell phones if they are so worried about RF exposure - though of
course I'm sure they never use them! 8^)


"Inverse square law? What's that?"


But frankly, they strike mer as being less than smart.

hehe, nothing like me talking about people being stupid and making my
own typo in the sentence!!! 8^)




Do not underestimate folks like that. Look at the BPL mess. Did you see the
Wall Street Journal article?


No I didn't.

Education and intelligence does not make a person smart. I always
thought that one of the things that makes for smart decisions is to be
able to extrapolate consequences.


Remember that whenever someone describes ham radio as "a hobby", they are
giving the BPL folks an argument against us. If amateur radio is "just a
hobby", then why should it be any more important than anyone else's hobby, such
as downloading pr0n via BPL?


And I do like the term "McMansion"!


We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly by
cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.


The average mobile home has better construction methods, and often
better hardware, cabinets, etc. than those conspicuous consumption hovels.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: Why Can't N-ZERO-IMD Validate His Own Claims...?!?!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 3/23/2004 9:47 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...

Lennie the Loser is trying to argue a point Jim's making that
actually echoes some of HIS sentiments...

How perculiar.

Perambulate your personal perspective, but don't pester us
particularly with poorly percolated petty pesterings promoted as
a perspicatious presentation when it is really perseverance of
persiflage. Ptui.

"Perculiar" indeed.

My typo notwithstanding, the questions remain:

What "MAJOR" role do the "unlicensed" services play in "emergency
comms?

Is being insulting, rude, obnoxious, and resorting to toilet humor
considerd "civil amateur behavior?" Certainly not, yet you seem
to do nothing else in here.

What "MAJOR" role do the "unlicensed" services play in "emergency
comms"?

Continued delaying tactics and obfuscation are admissions of lying.

None. Quit trying to assume a "command" role. You don't have the
authority.

There's no "command" role here, Lennie.

Your boy has made assertions of fact in a public forum.

He can't/won't corroborate them.

Neither do you have the details of When and Where for your supposed
"hostile actions" while in the military.

What I did in the military is not pertinent here. This is a forum about
Amateur Radio communications.

Get mental health help.

After you, Lennie...

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Why Can't N-ZERO-IMD Validate His Own Claims...?!?!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 3/23/2004 9:47 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

The ONLY "unlicensed" devices in the facility were two cordless
phones, both of which were part of unsecure phone lines.

"Unsecure?!?" You saw KY-98s in that facility? KY-57s?

Did I say that, Lennie?

I ASKED that. Do you know what they are? I don't think so.

Yes, Lennie...I am very familiar with crypto gear.

Hint: It has nothing to do with KY jelly.

Why would you be thinking of KY jelly, Lennie? Gonna have breakfast at the
stables?

Playing war games were you?

Nope. Participating in one of those drills you seem to think no
one needs to participate in.

I'm a strong advocate of emergency preparedness drilling, training,
planning. Said so in here before, say so still.

Why do you LIE about what I've written and is on archive at Google?

YOU just stated a few days ago that Californians did not need to practice
since you have "the real thing", Lennie. Shall I recover THAT quote and rub
your nose in it...?!?!

I am wondering, Brain, is THAT what YOU call a "MAJOR
ROLE"...?!?!

Putz.

Yup, rude and obnoxious, comes unglued on the slightest
disagreement. Well, at least that is consistent with previous
behavior of yours.

And you're still a putz and Brain Burke has still not answered a
simple question in repsonse to assertions HE made...

Sorry, your personal insult manner just wastes everyone's time
and does not change anything or anyone's opinion of yourself.

I could care less about anyone's opinion of me, Lennie.

Like me or not, facts are facts, and I have not overtly (or covertly)
tried to misrepresent the character of Amateur Radio in a public forum, such as
yourself.

You are NOT any authority who can demand answers from anyone.

I "demand" no more or no less that YOU "demand" from anyone, Lennie.

YOU have BLATANTLY "demanded" information from Jim Miccolis, Dave Heil,
myself and otehrs in this forum, so I'd be real careful about climbing up on
THAT "hollier-than-thou pedestle, Oh Putzy One.

I will remind everyone that YOU have not supplied ANY details on
your claims of "being in hostile actions" while in the military. NO
details as to When or Where...after many months since that first
claim and thousands of personal insults leveled against others.

And having even brought it up in the heat of our "exchanges" was an error
on my part. It has no pertinence in this forum. I allowed myself to sink to
your level. My bad.

Not only are you rude, obnoxious, a name-caller, an insulter, but
you are also a lying bull****ter, making claims YOU can't
substantiate.

Ahhhh...more profanity. Didn't take long, did it, Lennie?

As for the "name-caller" and "insulter", I'd guess you have a very
personal inside view on that regard, don't you?

Get some mental health help.

Why?

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Why Can't N-ZERO-IMD Validate His Own Claims...?!?!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 3/23/2004 9:47 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

I recall the pictures from the wildfires in San Diego last year showing
people trying to use their cell phones without success. The look on many
faces was one of surprise that the things weren't working.

I was IN some of those San Diego wildfire areas and didn't "see"
what you saw. Also using a cell phone. It worked fine.

Now tell us all what amateur radio really DID do there that couldn't
be done by the regular telephone infrastructure. Be specific. Try
to avoid subjective "interpretation."

What interpretation is needed?

Even the press stated that cellphone coverage was lost in many areas.

And what were you doing in a wildfire area, Lennie?

Playing with matches?

Steve, K4YZ

On 23 Mar 2004 16:58:44 GMT, N2EY wrote:

And I do like the term "McMansion"!

We have some of them around here. Big houses, big price, tossed up quickly by
cheap nonunion labor. CC&Rs out the ying-yang.

We call them "tract mansions"...... ggg

We have a half-dozen of them going up near here in an area that was
last developed twenty years ago. Just for yah-yahs I'm going to
check out the CC&Rs after they are open for sale.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

JJ wrote in message ...

There now you go, upsetting all the anti-ham crowd who can't manage to
get a license,

Brave words from a guy w/o a license.

Wee Willie Winky wrote:
JJ wrote in message ...


There now you go, upsetting all the anti-ham crowd who can't manage to
get a license,


Brave words from a guy w/o a license.

Sorry to dissappoint you willieboy, but I have an advanced. Took my exam
in front of an FCC examiner.