"Jason Hsu" wrote in message
om...
Under the ARRL's proposal, current Novices will have certain
privileges REDUCED. This opposes the sensible concept of avoiding
automatic downgrades for any license class. The reason for stricter
power limits is to avoid the need for RF safety questions in the new
Novice exam.

That is contrary to what I understand from having read
the ARRL proposal.

Exactly what privileges will be reduced for current Novices?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

Under the ARRL's proposal, current Novices will have certain
privileges REDUCED.

That's not in the RM-10867 Petition for Rule Making I downloaded.

This opposes the sensible concept of avoiding
automatic downgrades for any license class. The reason for stricter
power limits is to avoid the need for RF safety questions in the new
Novice exam.

So, why weren't all those RF safety questions in the OLD Novice
exam?

What's wrong with testing prospective Novice licensees on RF safety?
Are RF safety questions that hard? It seems like an extremely
important topic to me, and learning about RF safety doesn't seem like
an undue burden.

Go back and review the two tables in 97.13.

MOST of the ham stations won't require any "performance
evaluation" now.

Furthermore, RF safety is just one topic on the
written exam and doesn't have the unilateral power that the Morse Code
exams currently have. What's wrong with making the Novice question
pool 10%-20% larger given how critical this topic is and given the
need to avoid downgrading privileges of current licensees?

The question POOL can be as large as the NCVEC QPC cares
to make it. There's no Commission rule on maxima, only on the
minima of 10 pool questions for each examination question.

LHA / WMD

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

Under the ARRL's proposal, current Novices will have certain
privileges REDUCED.

That's not in the RM-10867 Petition for Rule Making I downloaded.

Novices are currently allowed to transmit up to 200W on 80m, 40m, 15m,
and 10m. Under the proposal, Novices would be restricted to 100W on
80m, 40m, and 15m and 50W on 10m. Also, Novices are currently allowed
to transmit on 1270-1295 MHz but would be banned from that band in the
proposal.

Don't you think it's unfair to current Novices to cut their privileges
just so that the new Novices won't have to be tested on RF safety?

Jason Hsu, AG4DG

"Jason Hsu" wrote in message
om...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

Under the ARRL's proposal, current Novices will have certain
privileges REDUCED.

That's not in the RM-10867 Petition for Rule Making I downloaded.

Novices are currently allowed to transmit up to 200W on 80m, 40m, 15m,
and 10m. Under the proposal, Novices would be restricted to 100W on
80m, 40m, and 15m and 50W on 10m. Also, Novices are currently allowed
to transmit on 1270-1295 MHz but would be banned from that band in the
proposal.

Don't you think it's unfair to current Novices to cut their privileges
just so that the new Novices won't have to be tested on RF safety?

The number of Novices thatactually are on the air with rigs that
are over 100w but under 200 is probably miniscule. The issue,
if any, is more likly the 10m 50w limitation. I think that's
all but totally unenforceable.

The number of Novices that operate 1270-1295 MHz
is probably ZERO.

I see NO downside to the newly proposed Novice privileges,
especially since there are only about 32,000 current Novice
license holders now (less than 5% of all USA hams)
....and that number is constantly going down.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message link.net...
"Jason Hsu" wrote in message
om...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

Under the ARRL's proposal, current Novices will have certain
privileges REDUCED.

That's not in the RM-10867 Petition for Rule Making I downloaded.

Novices are currently allowed to transmit up to 200W on 80m, 40m, 15m,
and 10m. Under the proposal, Novices would be restricted to 100W on
80m, 40m, and 15m and 50W on 10m. Also, Novices are currently allowed
to transmit on 1270-1295 MHz but would be banned from that band in the
proposal.

Don't you think it's unfair to current Novices to cut their privileges
just so that the new Novices won't have to be tested on RF safety?

The number of Novices thatactually are on the air with rigs that
are over 100w but under 200 is probably miniscule. The issue,
if any, is more likly the 10m 50w limitation. I think that's
all but totally unenforceable.

The number of Novices that operate 1270-1295 MHz
is probably ZERO.

I see NO downside to the newly proposed Novice privileges,
especially since there are only about 32,000 current Novice
license holders now (less than 5% of all USA hams)
...and that number is constantly going down.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Great! Just Great!

We've got Hans referring to this as the "Great Giveaway." We've got
Jason referring to it as the "Great Takeaway."

I won't be able to sleep until TAFKARJ weighs in on this matter.

In article ,
(William) writes:

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

Great! Just Great!

We've got Hans referring to this as the "Great Giveaway." We've got
Jason referring to it as the "Great Takeaway."

I won't be able to sleep until TAFKARJ weighs in on this matter.

He's probably back from the Roman Curia now and is preparing
another encyclical "Sermon On The Antenna Mount."

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Jason Hsu) writes:

Under the ARRL's proposal, current Novices will have certain
privileges REDUCED.

That's not in the RM-10867 Petition for Rule Making I downloaded.

Novices are currently allowed to transmit up to 200W on 80m, 40m, 15m,
and 10m. Under the proposal, Novices would be restricted to 100W on
80m, 40m, and 15m and 50W on 10m. Also, Novices are currently allowed
to transmit on 1270-1295 MHz but would be banned from that band in the
proposal.

What can I say? The ARRL wants to "put Novices in their place"
and be nice subservient little serfs to the mighty morsemen of the
membership...from the impression they've always shown me.

If there's nit-picking needed (I think not) then in the final Report &
Order that MAY be issued, FCC will pick up on all the fly specks
and separate it from the pepper. IF and only IF ARRL will rule as
the "final winner" after no less than 18 petitions in one year's time.

Don't you think it's unfair to current Novices to cut their privileges
just so that the new Novices won't have to be tested on RF safety?

Just WHICH "RF safety" thing are you thinking of?

If it's personal "RF safety" then it is a matter of whether an
individual wants to either suicide or achieve bodily harm...about
the same as whether or not they won't have accidents climbing
a tower or tree putting up that "DX-winning super antenna."

If it's about the OTHER PEOPLE'S EXPOSURE "RF safety,"
then I think it is a lot of hooey as a result of mass paranoia of
cell phones next to the head or the ugliness of MHV power
lines spoiling orderly farm land or fear of unspecified fearsome
RADIATION boogeythings. Okay, that's the LAW [97.13 in
case you haven't looked it up yet or haven't heard of Part 1].
Maybe the LAW is a good thing, maybe it's a lot of extraneous
nonsense that doesn't need Federal Regulations (!) in a form of
Witless Protection Program.

Back in Junior High basic electricity shop class in 1947 I and
all classmates learned the "left-hand rule" (for right-handers)
which said "keep the left hand in the pocket if you have no
choice about turning the power off and working with the right
hand...that keeps a circuit from going through your heart."
Since we'd all had basic biology by then, that made a lot of
sense. Later at Fort Monmouth Signal School in 1952 a radar
basics instructor stuck a ball of steel wool on a bamboo pole
in front of a live 1 MW search radar beam. The steel wool
burned. Steel wool doesn't burn by itself. Class duly
impressed, lesson learned in a few seconds. Wasn't any
Federal Law on RF exposure then in any radio service.

Between 1953 and 1956 I worked IN an HF RF field of about
100 to 200 KW total RF energy, lived IN that field for five
months, 24/7. At least 600 others did also in that time at
that same station, not to mention all the civilian farmers living
IN that same field. Given same conditions at different sites
around the world, tens of thousands have been exposed to high
levels of RF. Nobody got cooked, fried, or rare. Was no LAW
on RF exposure then or in any radio service. Was so until the
1990s and the Big Radiation Paranoia time.

If there is so much "worry" over personal safety, do you think
any public safety agency of any kind can arrest and prosecute
a suicide? [go ahead, make my day...] Worry instead about
using your mighty amateur knowledge in TEACHING others
about electrical/RF safety, common sense in live circuits, etc.

If there is so much "worry" over Other People's RF safety, then
I'd suggest you or anyone else get a prescription for a
tranquilizer from your personal physician. That MD can't cure
legislated paranoia but it will make you feel better. It also might
give you and others some tranquility to look into more meaningful
radio subjects and quit trying to separate legal fly specks from
paranoia pepper.

LHA / WMD

ubject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new Novice
exam?
From: "Alun L. Palmer"
Date: 4/19/2004 10:02 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Len Over 21) wrote in news:20040415150839.09913.00000288
:

snip


Back in Junior High basic electricity shop class in 1947 I and
all classmates learned the "left-hand rule" (for right-handers)
which said "keep the left hand in the pocket if you have no
choice about turning the power off and working with the right
hand...that keeps a circuit from going through your heart."
Since we'd all had basic biology by then, that made a lot of
sense.

snip

LHA / WMD

Actually, it's a left hand rule regardless of which is your preferred hand,
because your heart is on your left side. (Some people's hearts are on the
right, but it's very rare).

I was taught to keep one hand in my pocket over 200V, and both hands in my
pockets over 1kV !!

Acutally, at potentially fatal amperages, it doesn't matter which hand you
grab the juice from. I've had to deal with electrocutions in which the victim
had no upper extremity contact with the source at all...they're dead
none-the-less.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

ubject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new
Novice exam? From: "Alun L. Palmer"
Date: 4/19/2004 10:02 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Len Over 21) wrote in
news:20040415150839.09913.00000288 @mb-m26.aol.com:

snip


Back in Junior High basic electricity shop class in 1947 I and
all classmates learned the "left-hand rule" (for right-handers)
which said "keep the left hand in the pocket if you have no
choice about turning the power off and working with the right
hand...that keeps a circuit from going through your heart."
Since we'd all had basic biology by then, that made a lot of
sense.

snip

LHA / WMD

Actually, it's a left hand rule regardless of which is your preferred
hand, because your heart is on your left side. (Some people's hearts
are on the right, but it's very rare).

I was taught to keep one hand in my pocket over 200V, and both hands in
my pockets over 1kV !!

Acutally, at potentially fatal amperages, it doesn't matter which
hand you
grab the juice from. I've had to deal with electrocutions in which the
victim had no upper extremity contact with the source at all...they're
dead none-the-less.

Steve, K4YZ









The current kills you, but it takes volts to jump the gap, thousands of
them. I have a little L-shaped scar on my right index finger from 10kV that
I didn't touch. I'm an EE amongst other things, and I assume you are a
physician?? If you say it doesn't matter which hand it is, then I beleive
you, as it sounds like you know. I've never worked with power transmission
or distribution, only with electronics, so that limits the current quite a
bit (but not necessarily the volts)!

Alun wrote:

snippage

The current kills you, but it takes volts to jump the gap, thousands of
them. I have a little L-shaped scar on my right index finger from 10kV that
I didn't touch. I'm an EE amongst other things, and I assume you are a
physician?? If you say it doesn't matter which hand it is, then I beleive
you, as it sounds like you know. I've never worked with power transmission
or distribution, only with electronics, so that limits the current quite a
bit (but not necessarily the volts)!


IIRC, the accepted lower limit for electrocution is 24 volts. That is
under some extraordinary conditions to be sure, but hey, don't
misunderestimate (hehe) the ability of idiots! 8^) mebbe we better lower
that 48 volt finals limit to 24 volts.

And of course, even lesser voltages van do lots of damage, like 5 volt
power supplies for large computers. Come into contact with one of them
with your wedding ring on, and you'll have to find a new finger to wear
it on. Oh... the new ring that is.

These are the reasons that I really want to stress safety, as we
remake the ARS. I'm capable of and willing to handle high voltages
safely. If the tests are simplified badly, as it looks like will happen,
there will be a new cadre of hams that may have little to no experience
in these matters.

Maybe the ARS is going to do their own version of Fear Factor.....

- Mike KB3EIA -