ubject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new Novice
exam?
From: "Alun L. Palmer"
Date: 4/19/2004 10:02 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Len Over 21) wrote in news:20040415150839.09913.00000288
:

snip


Back in Junior High basic electricity shop class in 1947 I and
all classmates learned the "left-hand rule" (for right-handers)
which said "keep the left hand in the pocket if you have no
choice about turning the power off and working with the right
hand...that keeps a circuit from going through your heart."
Since we'd all had basic biology by then, that made a lot of
sense.

snip

LHA / WMD

Actually, it's a left hand rule regardless of which is your preferred hand,
because your heart is on your left side. (Some people's hearts are on the
right, but it's very rare).

I was taught to keep one hand in my pocket over 200V, and both hands in my
pockets over 1kV !!

Acutally, at potentially fatal amperages, it doesn't matter which hand you
grab the juice from. I've had to deal with electrocutions in which the victim
had no upper extremity contact with the source at all...they're dead
none-the-less.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

ubject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new
Novice exam? From: "Alun L. Palmer"
Date: 4/19/2004 10:02 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Len Over 21) wrote in
news:20040415150839.09913.00000288 @mb-m26.aol.com:

snip


Back in Junior High basic electricity shop class in 1947 I and
all classmates learned the "left-hand rule" (for right-handers)
which said "keep the left hand in the pocket if you have no
choice about turning the power off and working with the right
hand...that keeps a circuit from going through your heart."
Since we'd all had basic biology by then, that made a lot of
sense.

snip

LHA / WMD

Actually, it's a left hand rule regardless of which is your preferred
hand, because your heart is on your left side. (Some people's hearts
are on the right, but it's very rare).

I was taught to keep one hand in my pocket over 200V, and both hands in
my pockets over 1kV !!

Acutally, at potentially fatal amperages, it doesn't matter which
hand you
grab the juice from. I've had to deal with electrocutions in which the
victim had no upper extremity contact with the source at all...they're
dead none-the-less.

Steve, K4YZ









The current kills you, but it takes volts to jump the gap, thousands of
them. I have a little L-shaped scar on my right index finger from 10kV that
I didn't touch. I'm an EE amongst other things, and I assume you are a
physician?? If you say it doesn't matter which hand it is, then I beleive
you, as it sounds like you know. I've never worked with power transmission
or distribution, only with electronics, so that limits the current quite a
bit (but not necessarily the volts)!

Alun wrote:

snippage

The current kills you, but it takes volts to jump the gap, thousands of
them. I have a little L-shaped scar on my right index finger from 10kV that
I didn't touch. I'm an EE amongst other things, and I assume you are a
physician?? If you say it doesn't matter which hand it is, then I beleive
you, as it sounds like you know. I've never worked with power transmission
or distribution, only with electronics, so that limits the current quite a
bit (but not necessarily the volts)!


IIRC, the accepted lower limit for electrocution is 24 volts. That is
under some extraordinary conditions to be sure, but hey, don't
misunderestimate (hehe) the ability of idiots! 8^) mebbe we better lower
that 48 volt finals limit to 24 volts.

And of course, even lesser voltages van do lots of damage, like 5 volt
power supplies for large computers. Come into contact with one of them
with your wedding ring on, and you'll have to find a new finger to wear
it on. Oh... the new ring that is.

These are the reasons that I really want to stress safety, as we
remake the ARS. I'm capable of and willing to handle high voltages
safely. If the tests are simplified badly, as it looks like will happen,
there will be a new cadre of hams that may have little to no experience
in these matters.

Maybe the ARS is going to do their own version of Fear Factor.....

- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new Novice
exam?
From: Alun
Date: 4/19/2004 7:35 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The current kills you, but it takes volts to jump the gap, thousands of
them. I have a little L-shaped scar on my right index finger from 10kV that
I didn't touch. I'm an EE amongst other things, and I assume you are a
physician?? If you say it doesn't matter which hand it is, then I beleive
you, as it sounds like you know. I've never worked with power transmission
or distribution, only with electronics, so that limits the current quite a
bit (but not necessarily the volts)!

Nope...Not an M.D....An ER/Trauma Nurse with 15 years of EMS behind that.
But it only took one electrocution to make me a believer. The one victim in
particular was in a trench along a runway installing new lights...Somehow his
feet came into contact with buried power lines that the work crew was unaware
were there.

Typical paddle application for defibrillation is to the left chest wall
and upper midline sternum. The placement of the paddles in combination with
the delivered current attempts to repolarize the the irratically firing SA node
causing ventricular fibrillation. (That's the "HE'S IN VEE-FIB" you hear on
countless episodes of "E.R." and "Third Watch".)

Congrats on being an EE. Does it make you immune to electrocution? Does
my NOT being an M.D. in any way diminish the fact that sufficient current
sustained by adequate voltage can be fatal regardless of how or where it's
applied to human tissue?

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Subject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new
Novice exam? From: Alun
Date: 4/19/2004 7:35 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The current kills you, but it takes volts to jump the gap, thousands of
them. I have a little L-shaped scar on my right index finger from 10kV
that I didn't touch. I'm an EE amongst other things, and I assume you
are a physician?? If you say it doesn't matter which hand it is, then I
beleive you, as it sounds like you know. I've never worked with power
transmission or distribution, only with electronics, so that limits the
current quite a bit (but not necessarily the volts)!

Nope...Not an M.D....An ER/Trauma Nurse with 15 years of EMS behind
that.
But it only took one electrocution to make me a believer. The one
victim in particular was in a trench along a runway installing new
lights...Somehow his feet came into contact with buried power lines
that the work crew was unaware were there.

Typical paddle application for defibrillation is to the left chest
wall
and upper midline sternum. The placement of the paddles in combination
with the delivered current attempts to repolarize the the irratically
firing SA node causing ventricular fibrillation. (That's the "HE'S IN
VEE-FIB" you hear on countless episodes of "E.R." and "Third Watch".)


I know the basic theory. It was explained to me by a scientist from the UK
Dept of Health. We tested automatic defibrillators for him to try to
trigger them with various types of electrical interference. We discharged
them into electric fire elements, though, not into people!

Congrats on being an EE. Does it make you immune to
electrocution?

No

Does
my NOT being an M.D. in any way diminish the fact that sufficient
current sustained by adequate voltage can be fatal regardless of how or
where it's applied to human tissue?

No


73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new Novice
exam?
From: Alun
Date: 4/19/2004 10:02 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Congrats on being an EE. Does it make you immune to
electrocution?

No

Does
my NOT being an M.D. in any way diminish the fact that sufficient
current sustained by adequate voltage can be fatal regardless of how or
where it's applied to human tissue?

No


Then why did you deem it important to raise either in the exchange?

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Subject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new Novice
exam? From: Alun
Date: 4/19/2004 10:02 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Congrats on being an EE. Does it make you immune to
electrocution?

No

Does
my NOT being an M.D. in any way diminish the fact that sufficient
current sustained by adequate voltage can be fatal regardless of how or
where it's applied to human tissue?

No


Then why did you deem it important to raise either in the exchange?

73

Steve, K4YZ







To explain my background and find out if you had some kind of medical
training, which you do

Subject: Are RF safety questions too hard for the proposed new Novice
exam?
From: Alun
Date: 4/20/2004 8:58 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
:

Then why did you deem it important to raise either in the exchange?

To explain my background and find out if you had some kind of medical
training, which you do

OK. Thanks.

73

Steve, K4YZ

On 20 Apr 2004 02:13:51 GMT, Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:

But it only took one electrocution to make me a believer. The one
victim in particular was in a trench along a runway installing new
lights...Somehow his feet came into contact with buried power lines
that the work crew was unaware were there.

Shudder....

My wife's present specialty is runway utility and lighting design
for upgrades of major airports and conversions of military airfields
to civilian use. Although she doesn't go onto the jobsite - that's
done by electrical contractors on bid - she has mentioned many times
that the "as-installed" drawings were missing or they were inaccurate.
I'm thinking of two particular SAC bases (one is still active, the
other is a conversion) that she's working on now which I had
"intimate familiarity with" when I worked for SAC 40 years ago.
Like "old home week"..... ggg

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane